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Disciple progress: Based on Skill Points or Skill TT Value?

Based on Skill Points or Skill TT Value?

  • Skill Points

    Votes: 23 28.0%

  • Skill TT Value

    Votes: 36 43.9%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 23 28.0%
  • Total voters
    82
CyberPunk

CyberPunk

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William Cyber Punk
In the old system there was a set number of points for each eligible skill to graduate. When met, the mentor could graduate the disciple. This was based off of the disciple only being able to take a mentor while his/her points was below a certain value.

In the new system, disciples can take a mentor at any level so long as the mentor's highest profession level is higher than the disciple's highest profession level. This raises the question: Is the progress of the disciple based on skill points or is it based on TT value of skills?

For those of you who're wondering why this matters:
A player starting with 0 skill points can gain points much faster than a player which already has skilled, however the TT value gained for both players can be identical. As an example, a player with 1 point in a skill can buy a 10 ped skill chip and it will take them to 1886 points (gain of 1887 points) whereas a player with 2000 points can eat the same skill chip and it will only take them to 2621 points (gain of 621 points). As such if graduation is based off of points alone rather than TT value of points then a new player can graduate quicker than a skilled player. Alternatively if it is based off of TT value of skill then a skilled player, being able to gain TT value faster by using higher level weapons, can graduate quicker.

Just curious, has anyone yet figured out which way it works?
 
After thinking about this, since it's a combination of anatomy, geology and engineering, it must be TT value. But still that is only speculation, need to test it somehow to make a confirmation.
 
I think it's skill points. Progress is very slow for me and seems to be faster for society members who have less skill. Also, if it were purely TT in, and looking at how slow it's moving for me, I don't think anyone would have graduated yet.

I haven't done any formal testing though, so this is speculation as well.
 
It must be TT - disciples are now allowed to chip in
(gaining 100 skill points @ 5k needs WAY more skilling than at i.e. 1k or 2k)
 
Not sure whether it's based on skill points or skill TT myself either yet.

But so far my disciple who's highest Level is 32 Laser Pistoleer is already 16% through the Skill Progress with less than 1k ped cycled.

To me it seems to move way to quick...
 
Buds said:
Not sure whether it's based on skill points or skill TT myself either yet.

But so far my disciple who's highest Level is 32 Laser Pistoleer is already 16% through the Skill Progress with less than 1k ped cycled.

To me it seems to move way to quick...
Click to expand...

That leads me to believe it's TT based. A high level player using high level gear will earn TT a lot faster than a low level player using low level gear.

If it is by TT, for a noob, it won't be nearly so fast.
 
I've also wondered about this, thank you Cyber :). TT it is, no wait what am I saying :eek::laugh:.
 
I`m getting ~ 0.15% progress per geology gain with 4k+ geology and level 2 amps. So either you need to advance very, very few skillpoints or more obvious - it is tt based.
 
I'm a disciple with 5758 anatomy. I've cycled about 1k ped of ammo and am at 13.39%. Definitely based on TT.

Edit: I now have 5770 anatomy and am at 31.73%. According to entropedia, that's a 1.29 ped increase in skill TT value, for a 18.34% increase in discipleship. Extrapolated, that means approximately 7 ped TT worth of skill increase is required to graduate. If this is correct, I will graduate when I hit (about) 5807 anatomy. I will update this post when I graduate.
 
Last edited:
Most people are giving the same observation, but getting the conclusion wrong.

Graduation progress is linearly related to the number of skillpoints you gain in those skills, not the TT you gain. If it were realted linearly to TT, I should have graduated in 2kped hunting :rolleyes:

Formula:
Progress = a*(Af-As) + b*(Gf-Gs) + c*(Ef-Es)

where a,b,c are coefficients (I assume a=b=c=1, but haven't tested)
Af,Gf,Ef Anatomy/Geology/Engineering final
As,Gs,Es Anatomy/Geology/Engineering start

If chipping, Xsn==S(Xs)

Where S(y) is the skill formula function and y =TT value, Xs=T(s) where T is the TT value function.

Chipping down will make it become easier to finish discipleship if all the above formula hold true.
 
Immortal said:
Most people are giving the same observation, but getting the conclusion wrong.

Graduation progress is linearly related to the number of skillpoints you gain in those skills, not the TT you gain. If it were realted linearly to TT, I should have graduated in 2kped hunting :rolleyes:

Formula:
Progress = a*(Af-As) + b*(Gf-Gs) + c*(Ef-Es)

where a,b,c are coefficients (I assume a=b=c=1, but haven't tested)
Af,Gf,Ef Anatomy/Geology/Engineering final
As,Gs,Es Anatomy/Geology/Engineering start

If chipping, Xsn==S(Xs)

Where S(y) is the skill formula function and y =TT value, Xs=T(s) where T is the TT value function.

Chipping down will make it become easier to finish discipleship if all the above formula hold true.
Click to expand...


I haven't seen anything in this thread that justifies this formula and/or the assumptions you made here.

That it is not linear to TT - where do you base that on?
You need at least 3 data points within the same set to say it is not linear...
 
It's definately based on TT. It's been noted by many... MANY players that your skill gains are worth more TT value when loot is down. I've had good hunts as a disciple and gotten MINIMAL increase in completion %. Bad hunts bring me higher increase in completion %. There also seems to be a bit of a delay before increases show up in your "Mentorship Progress Bar" (for lack of better term).

Whiskey
 
wizzszz said:
I haven't seen anything in this thread that justifies this formula and/or the assumptions you made here.

That it is not linear to TT - where do you base that on?
You need at least 3 data points within the same set to say it is not linear...
Click to expand...

Note I am not saying it is total skill points, I am saying it is how many skill points you earn while in discipleship. The relationship *might* not be linear, i don't have nearly enough data for that. However I did a test before I started any mining via a hunt, and cycled at least 500ped hunting for no increase at all, yet a socmates noob disciple who hunts puny's went up 5%.

Anatomy>9k, no increase in at least 500ped.
I mined about 1.1kped, have gone up 5.82% in discipleship (Geology ~3300)

In this thread, further supporting arguments are:
*****
RobBuona said:
I think it's skill points. Progress is very slow for me and seems to be faster for society members who have less skill. Also, if it were purely TT in, and looking at how slow it's moving for me, I don't think anyone would have graduated yet.
Click to expand...

Buds said:
But so far my disciple who's highest Level is 32 Laser Pistoleer is already 16% through the Skill Progress with less than 1k ped cycled.
Click to expand...
So a level 32 went up 16%, compare to my own 0%. Their anatomy would have raised 32 points (if a=1 in my formula), while mine raised 0.

Futurama said:
I`m getting ~ 0.15% progress per geology gain with 4k+ geology and level 2 amps.
Click to expand...

Mekoides said:
I'm a disciple with 5758 anatomy. I've cycled about 1k ped of ammo and am at 13.39%.
Click to expand...
******
please review the formula again: I say that (for anatomy) discipleship is linearly related to Af-As


Just had a further thought.... disiciple ship could be something like d*(Af-As)(Gf-Gs) + e*(Ef-As)(Ef-Gs) + f*(Af-As)(Ef-Es) +(Af-As)(Gf-Gs)(Ef-Es) and that would really screw everyone over who is trying to deduce the formula, but for now I will side with Occam.
 
You didn't post that you have made own tests - when taking your results into account your formula makes way more sense. :)
 
Mekoides said:
I'm a disciple with 5758 anatomy. I've cycled about 1k ped of ammo and am at 13.39%. Definitely based on TT.

Edit: I now have 5770 anatomy and am at 31.73%. According to entropedia, that's a 1.29 ped increase in skill TT value, for a 18.34% increase in discipleship. Extrapolated, that means approximately 7 ped TT worth of skill increase is required to graduate. If this is correct, I will graduate when I hit (about) 5807 anatomy. I will update this post when I graduate.
Click to expand...

I took on a new disciple and she gained 2,5% to graduation after only a small 20ped ammo team hunt that we did together. I figure a new person should be able to graduate if they cycle about 1k peds... this is a very rough estimate though;)
 
any disciple tried to chip in those needed skill to graduate ? will get progress or something ??
 
LUCmarius1 said:
any disciple tried to chip in those needed skill to graduate ? will get progress or something ??
Click to expand...

I think it was written in somewhere (can't remember atm where it was), that disciple's may chip skills in, but it won't increase their progress. So you just need to graduate by skilling naturally.
 
I am mid-level (level 68) laser pistoleer have cycled approx. 1300 ped of ammo and have progressed 12.97% so i was thinking possibly has to do with ped spent. Probably wrong but thought I'd throw it in for the hell of it.
 
sir lancelot said:
I am mid-level (level 68) laser pistoleer have cycled approx. 1300 ped of ammo and have progressed 12.97% so i was thinking possibly has to do with ped spent. Probably wrong but thought I'd throw it in for the hell of it.
Click to expand...

Thats interesting, 1300 ped resulting in nearly 13% progress...

what gun did you use? =)
 
Has anyone considered having their diciple doing a few hours skilling repair on a mothership? This gives engeneering skill and the vehicle repair skills can be sold later for then they cost to gain in the first place...
 
Immortal said:
Anatomy>9k, no increase in at least 500ped.
Click to expand...

This part isn't clear for me.
In 500 PED cycled you didn't get a single Anatomy skill gain (while using a weapon doing more than 40 damage ?)
(also how many skill gains and level gains in the profession which was used you gained ?
 
-Archangel- said:
This part isn't clear for me.
In 500 PED cycled you didn't get a single Anatomy skill gain (while using a weapon doing more than 40 damage ?)
(also how many skill gains and level gains in the profession which was used you gained ?
Click to expand...

Welcome to semi-uber, where anatomy never moves.

Ever.
 
Immortal said:
Welcome to semi-uber, where anatomy never moves.

Ever.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply.

Unfortunatly it seems that your level it would be hard to tell if it is related to number of skill gains or to TT value of those skill gains in terms of anatomy, since without gains there won't be data to test either hypothesis.
 
-Archangel- said:
Thank you for your reply.

Unfortunatly it seems that your level it would be hard to tell if it is related to number of skill gains or to TT value of those skill gains in terms of anatomy, since without gains there won't be data to test either hypothesis.
Click to expand...

Sure there is data, 0% progress is data.
 
Xen said:
Sure there is data, 0% progress is data.
Click to expand...

From the info provided by MA, 0 gains would let us believe that it would result in 0% increase.
Sure there is data in the above, enough to say that it looks to be correct in this part.


But not enough data to tell which of the two hypothesis is correct of if it is a mixture of the 2 (number of skill gains, TT value of those skill gains)
 
-Archangel- said:
From the info provided by MA, 0 gains would let us believe that it would result in 0% increase.
Sure there is data in the above, enough to say that it looks to be correct in this part.


But not enough data to tell which of the two hypothesis is correct of if it is a mixture of the 2 (number of skill gains, TT value of those skill gains)
Click to expand...

0% discipleship while gaining .5-1ped anatomy is enough data. 6 other people's observations support this claim. Unless you are propounding that a noob hunting for 20ped somehow gained 50 times more TT value than I did :confused:
 
I get increase on the progressbar from evry skillgain, im close to 6900 anatomy so it takes many skillgains for a level.
Im a bit above 15% from less than 500 ped ammo turnover with UL CB26 and dante.
 
Immortal said:
0% discipleship while gaining .5-1ped anatomy is enough data. 6 other people's observations support this claim. Unless you are propounding that a noob hunting for 20ped somehow gained 50 times more TT value than I did :confused:
Click to expand...

I'm sorry your previous post made me thought that you didn't had a single skill gain message in Anatomy,

but now since you say that you had gained Anatomy skill (green message) my question would be do you still have that data ?
I can't believe that 0,5 PED of Anatomy would result in 0,00% progress until somebody testefies that such thing can happen.
Especially since somebody is already here saying that each skill gain that he gets move the progress (although very slowly)
I get increase on the progressbar from evry skillgain, im close to 6900 anatomy so it takes many skillgains for a level.
Im a bit above 15% from less than 500 ped ammo turnover with UL CB26 and dante.
Click to expand...
 
-Archangel- said:
I'm sorry your previous post made me thought that you didn't had a single skill gain message in Anatomy,

but now since you say that you had gained Anatomy skill (green message) my question would be do you still have that data ?
I can't believe that 0,5 PED of Anatomy would result in 0,00% progress until somebody testefies that such thing can happen.
Especially since somebody is already here saying that each skill gain that he gets move the progress (although very slowly)
Click to expand...

I watch my skillgains (something i never do) for at least one increase in anatomy. So I certainly went up an undetermined yet tiny amount. I also have chatlogs:

normal damage done: 153733.6 (divide by 0.69 for minimum 534peds spent)
Anatomy Gains: 48
Disciple progress: 0.00%
 
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