I'm mad about swamp camp!

I am furious right now. I am indeed very angry. You see this? You see me? That is me being angry, and I am very much so indeed. Thus you should read my post in a very furious tone in your head.

When I started playing back in 2009 I was mostly very high on this and that, so it's not much I remember, but I do remember an avatar telling me how to get to Swamp Camp - so I went. Then I logged out. I didn't login for five days until I, 16-years-old, had money to deposit - because after seeing Swamp Camp I was basically stuck.

In that good old times the socializing in that place was taken to almost extreme proportions; life was growing inside the place; people were dancing; chatting; not like in disgusting Twin where sellers spam the place making it a place to avoid; not PA where you find disgusting people spamming the chat offering mentorship. No. It was indeed something else: it was a community.

It was where I bought my first armor - a Goblin. It was where I joined my first society (Angels & Demons). It was where I left my first society. It was where I first was asked if I was gay. It was the first time I had to deny such an insinuation.

This is not a nostalgia-thread, however much it may sound so. I am not dreaming back of days that never were. EU WAS DIFFERENT. It was a community in Swamp Camp. It was high players dancing and chatting; it was players running around healing each other with TT-healer.

I accept the capitalism in EU; in fact, I DEFEND IT - but EU isn't supposed to be all about shooting pixels, and the old Swamp Camp proved that. What you have done is unforgivable. If one had a brain, and I should add that I do, one would suspect that you removed it to push us away from socializing into nothing but shooting pixels; mining pixels; the crafters continuing doing what they have always done.

I demand the old Swamp Camp to be returned. I demand that socializing in the game must have a focus on. I have played and quit and played and quit - what else can one do when one finally realizes that one's paying to shoot cartoons - and nothing else? Where is the socializing aspect of this game? Is it in Twin? Yeah, right. If one would just be able to get by all those annoying fucking resellers one would probably find socializing there. Is it in Nea? Yeah, right - not even slightly comparable to Swamp Camp as it was. Is it in PA? Yeah, right - I don't even have to motivate this one.

I don't know if it's lack in morality from MA/FPC/whatever motivating such a step, because I just cannot believe there's ignorance so huge that you did this unintentionally.

You speak such nice words as if fallen from an angel's mouth about EU-community this and EU-community that; speaking in articles about what this game is - as if you would know anything about it, or as if you care to find out. I don't want to be rude in this post. I don't expect rudeness to be taken in kind, but you have to understand a player's frustration when he realizes that he isn't getting anything but pixels out of this; that you as game-developers are just caring about the money this game gives you; not even slightly interested in motivating a better socializing experience.

Every step you take points towards this. Nothing, and I mean nothing, points towards your goal being anything other than making this into a game where money is the only thing to be taken into account. To not care about the socializing experience for your players will make people like me leave. Sometimes we come back, we deposit $200, and leave again. I know several people who have left and I miss them. They realized what they were to you and found the situation both funny, irritating and unacceptable at the same time. Their money you shall never see again.

I will conclude my point of this topic: I demand the old Swamp Camp to be returned. I demand that you focus more on the socializing experience for your players. You might believe that we will stay anyhow - but how could you? If I should follow my empirical data you have lost players. Maybe you've gained some new ones - will they stay? You better hope so.

Unfortunately the team who made that swamp camp are now gone.

Old fashioned TP runs played a very positive role in socialization... and that's been destroyed!

Now, MA wants to see piracy and hatred flourish in this game....... So I think they are on track towards that goal !

too bad you can't just demand things in here... You can send a support cast tho, and your request will be send to the responsible support team!

I do agree the "new new" Swamp Camp wasn't as good as either the VU 9 or VU 10 Swamp Camps.

Lets face it, the VU9 SC wasn't even that much of a swamp it was just a really good beginner place with Berycled, Daikiba & Combibo which could be sweated or hunted. Sweated to start and hunted after enough had been earned by sweating or that first $20 deposit.

I have fond memories of it.

I agree whole heardtedly, was a great place to kick back, relax and meet new people and see friends you hadnt run into for a while.

Yup I liked old sweat camp, even VU10 one wasn't that bad you had fast respawning combibos, exarosaurus nearby and daikibas too. Spawns were great, maturities low and revive very close. Lot of kind people willing to heal for free.

Psychopathic said:

I am furious right now. I am indeed very angry. You see this? You see me? That is me being angry, and I am very much so indeed. Thus you should read my post in a very furious tone in your head.

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LOL. Having a hard time reading past that first few lines... Will try to go back and re-read it now. ROFL. That's the way people should start posts more often..

Infinity01 said:

Old fashioned TP runs played a very positive role in socialization... and that's been destroyed!

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Indeed! I had my first global on a Molisk when being guided to a TP by another avatar.

Equally so was it fun spending days running naked through the wild getting all TPs. I swam for several hours just to get New Z. Good times!

However, removing vehicles isn't realistic, but it's really not that hard taking up old drawings and fixing a decent place to spend some time just being social. All EU is now is hunting, mining and crafting; visiting a new planet, maybe stay there and doing all of the above.

What the developers fail to realize is that without socializing EU is nothing but pixels. Most of us aren't ubers whom doesn't have to deposit. Most of us are players who have to spend some money each month to be able to play. How fun is that really when that's all there is? It would be more fun so if I could login for a fun time even though my PED-card is drained, but I can't - and it always makes me quit. I fashion some day I shouldn't return.

mastermesh said:

LOL. Having a hard time reading past that first few lines... Will try to go back and re-read it now. ROFL. That's the way people should start posts more often..

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I felt that since anger is hard to interpret without a lot of cussing I should explain my emotional state thoroughly in the post!

Well, chill a bit I would suggest.

I doubt MA changed Swamp Camp with the intention to kill socialising, I imagine they were trying to make it better. If you had joined EU a few years earlier you'd be demanding for the return of the old Camp Phoenix.

Stuff changes.

Jimmy B said:

Well, chill a bit I would suggest.

I doubt MA changed Swamp Camp with the intention to kill socialising, I imagine they were trying to make it better. If you had joined EU a few years earlier you'd be demanding for the return of the old Camp Phoenix.

Stuff changes.

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Ridiculous argument.

And if you have bothered to stay in Swamp Camp for longer than a few minutes you would notice that it can in no way be a try to make anything better.

Infinity01 said:

Now, MA wants to see piracy and hatred flourish in this game

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MA wants consenting PVP to flourish. The hatred comes from the haters. Take a guess who that is.

MA likes that the new Port Atlantis and swamp camp are visually pleasing. They don't care that both are functionally useless. Disagree, devs? Prove me wrong and change it. Complex cities and bogs do not harbor a friendly atmosphere to new players.

Edit: If it is still a mystery to you at MA why we want the old swamp camp back, and the old environment in PA, it is because they were open and simple. Everyone could see everyone else, and it was easy to guide new people around. It was even easy to figure things out on your own. I myself discovered swamp camp without a single person even telling me it existed. I used to spend hours there fap skilling on folks, and giving them instruction. There's no good way to do that anymore, because everything has become so decentralized and complex. You have spent so much time "improving" things that you have not stopped to consider what damage those "improvements" have done.

I have to agree with the OP. MA has removed so many of the things that made this a social game that it has lost a lot of its charm.

I can still remeber the most weird conversations that took place in swamp camp. You logged in and found yourself in the middle of a debate about the legalization of weed or some very kinky stuff it was awesome.

Sitting/lying down on the ground around others and just chatting or planning the next hunt. The babble language the avatars spoke that allowed you to know they were typing a response to you.

The one good thing in favor of socialization that has been implemented lately is the voice chat, sadly very few people use it.

malasuerte said:

I have to agree with the OP. MA has removed so many of the things that made this a social game that it has lost a lot of its charm.

I can still remeber the most weird conversations that took place in swamp camp. You logged in and found yourself in the middle of a debate about the legalization of weed or some very kinky stuff it was awesome.

Sitting/lying down on the ground around others and just chatting or planning the next hunt. The babble language the avatars spoke that allowed you to know they were typing a response to you.

The one good thing in favor of socialization that has been implemented lately is the voice chat, sadly very few people use it.

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Yeah, there was always something going on.

swamp camp(s) North and South are not so bad once you get used to them... but I do have to say the first time I tped in to the 'new' PA, with all the tall buildings everywhere vs the old little 'town square' next to the bank and tp it was a bit overwhelming.

I understand based on what I've read in many threads that MA, and Kim and Friends like the steep cliffs and stuff since it makes there be less lag, but it is a bit annoying that there are so many tall and jagged cliffs everywhere. Fort Argus used to be a fun little place with the city in the 'valley' surrounded by hills... now it's sitting on a cliff that makes it a pain in the butt to find the entrance to if you haven't been there since the latest updates... same with most other areas of the game.

MA, guess what, all those jagged edges are not as much fun as you think they might be. Gentle sloping hills like south of Argus used to be was a lot more fun...

Everything east of Zychion used to be sort of an easy spot for n00bs... not so much any more with big mobs that brand new avatars have problems dealing with one on one, etc.

Limnadian could become the new camp swamp, although not entirely, because the mobs there are hard to kill solo.

Us players can decide what the new camp swamp should be. We have vehicles now, so we can bring new players to locations that are worthy enough to become the new camp swamp.
Aloode would certainly be a good choice. It has all the newbie mobs, like snablesnot and snarksnot young, exarosaur young, berycled young. It has a lake, so you can drown mobs, it has a tp and it has a deluxe. It's up to us, now mentoring is back to create a new camp swamp.

Before camp swamp existed, we had camp phoenix with the same functionality, it was the players that made camp phoenix the place to be for new players.

Getting mad at Mindark is not the solution, the solution is work together and find a worthy enough spot to make it the new camp swamp.

Spawn said:

Limnadian could become the new camp swamp, although not entirely, because the mobs there are hard to kill solo.

Us players can decide what the new camp swamp should be. We have vehicles now, so we can bring new players to locations that are worthy enough to become the new camp swamp.
Aloode would certainly be a good choice. It has all the newbie mobs, like snablesnot and snarksnot young, exarosaur young, berycled young. It has a lake, so you can drown mobs, it has a tp and it has a deluxe. It's up to us, now mentoring is back to create a new camp swamp.

Before camp swamp existed, we had camp phoenix with the same functionality, it was the players that made camp phoenix the place to be for new players.

Getting mad at Mindark is not the solution, the solution is work together and find a worthy enough spot to make it the new camp swamp.

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I actually tried to take a couple of new players to Lim from PA in a Hummer and because of the terrain (very bumpy land for no good reason) it was near impossible. Obviously airborne travel has become a lot cheaper to buy now, but suggesting Aloode and such has to bear in mind the sheer distance from PA (where every new player spawns).

If MA dont want to make a good new player area like Lim for sweating, they need to provide a road.

Camp Phoenix was a 10 minute run from Port Atlantis, Aloode, not possible to run with the speed of mobs in 2012.

Spawn said:

Aloode would certainly be a good choice.

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One of my Favorite runs used to be from PA to Aloode. Loads od fun with large teams and lots of time for Q&A to help the newcomers. Sadly there are few newcomers to do these things with. Perhaps that is the root of the problem.

Spawn said:

Before camp swamp existed, we had camp phoenix with the same functionality, it was the players that made camp phoenix the place to be for new players.

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I miss the old Camp Phoenix. Always used to love the walk from there to Billy's pre vu 10. Now n00bs don't stand as much of a chance since higher level mobs are all around there.

Thread title changed, in hopes of improving your chances for a response. "Demands" are often ignored.

Yes, the main sweating place (called swamp camp of the past few years) has gone through quite some changes. Not all for the better.

i agree with the general swing of this thread, cryeng has the effect of sterilising the game imo, for starters it meant lots of players could no longer play due higher hardware requirements and the game felt alien for a long time after and still does when you compare back . Adding the new arrivals part was a bad idea , MA trying to designate too much which took away the sense of freedom and the mission grind layout thrust in every noobs face. The old way was far superior , we dont need sterile buildings ect and talk to the next guy missions all we need is a revive and easy mobs and some new players arriving nearby.

I don't know, when I started in Nov of 2010 swamp camp was a happening place, there were always 30 or so avatars running around there, I can't even remember what VU that was I was new to the game then and really never payed attention to such things. But I liked the swamp camp and the way it was done, there were contests to find hidden stuff in the swamp, usually bunch of free rookie gear. There was so much swunting going on there it was a fun place. I spent unmemorable number of months hanging around PA and swamp before I started venturing farther. Only reason I ventured off were the damn big ass robots they put there it was flippin annoying getting killed every 4 seconds. Sometime had issue of robot running to revival and killing you right when you respawned. I believe that's when I noticed swamp camp die. It made me find somewhere else to go, and I have never seen it the same since.

I would have really liked to have memories of the old game but sadly I was not a player then. So PA and swamp as it is now is all I can remember and I have good memories of that place up till the robots attacked it.

I think the layout of the new PA is uncomfortable..and to this day..I still havent figured out whats in there and all those damn stairs. I wish it was like it used to be..I miss that Gazebo thing..and simple and useful place..one road North went to Swamp Camp..(It was fun in Old Swamp Camp)..I actually enjoyed sweating then.

Thorns Rose said:

I think the layout of the new PA is uncomfortable..and to this day..I still havent figured out whats in there and all those damn stairs. I wish it was like it used to be..I miss that Gazebo thing..and simple and useful place..one road North went to Swamp Camp..(It was fun in Old Swamp Camp)..I actually enjoyed sweating then.

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I agree. It didnt matter where sweat camp was, it mattered that sweat camp was near a town and a revive, and because of that became a place of business, social hangout, and all around fun spot. I used to spend many afternoons at Sweat Camp after I found out about it... which was I think after my 3rd day in EU. ;-) Until then I was busy killing exa's outside the mall.

I have high hopes this will come back soon, as it was of great benefit to the entire community to have a gathering point far from the newbie spawn point, but very newbie friendly.

And here I thought PA was specifically designed to get new players lost!

OT: Sorry, had to snicker a bit at your post, as I found it difficult to read in a furious tone... guess I haven't found much to be furious about in EU.

Back on topic....

Swamp camp... tbh, not exactly sure where "swamp camp" is anymore. Isn't there about 5? But really, the true swamp camp, that rarely sees use (you know, the one at the lake near the rippersnapper wave spawner) would still be an ideal area. Yeah, best to tell the n00bs to stay outta the water, but it COULD be a perfect area.

After seeing what has been done at Arkadia for the NAZ, and the quest that takes new players from there, ultimately ending at Celeste Quarry, I think something like this could be done for new players.

First, perhaps have a starter area east of PA... out near the daikiba spawn. Frankly, dumping new players on the marina in PA is NOT conducive to player retention.

Give them a quest that does take them to and through PA.

Continue the quest to swamp camp... create a way for the new players to get there safely (something like the hoverpods in Arkadia, or even tunnel system that goes through some of those hills N of PA).

Put a full service center back at Swamp Camp. No need for a TP, as long as there is a "safe route" to and from ... one that doesn't mean climbing a bunch of hill, wading through the muck, etc. Just a rather direct safe route. In fact, heck, put a TP there... or somewhere closer than the TP's of Billys, or PA.

Don't overwhelm the area with punies and low level mobs, but put a decent respawn rate there.

Lastly, send a titan warship from Akbal-Cimi to fly into PA and demolish it, leaving a smoking crater in the ground. Then rebuild... make it a combination of the best of Pre VU 10.0, and the PA of VU 10.0. Right now, it's a case of design over functionality. Looks great, but it's pretty much worthless.

Psychopathic said:

I was mostly very high on this and that

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Ya, you didn't need to clear that up.

I agree with most of the comments in this thread. PA has no flow or functionality, too many stairs and is certainly not a good place to dump new arrivals. I too miss the buzz and social aspect of the old VU9 swamp camp.

I agree that it would not be bad if MA/FPC promotes socializing a bit. I believe strongly that socializing is a central point in keeping people to stick around. And... it can even be a money maker (after all, Second Life is based on socializing only). Clothing is a social aspect. But bars can be a money maker too.

On the other hand... who has to form the community other than the players. I am working with an initiative to do exactly what you are proposing: more community feeling, perhaps a few new hotspots for socialization (other than Twin, which is indeed too commercial for the purpose of chitchats). I sent you a pm about it (and invite anyone wanting to know more to get in touch).

I don't think the project is far enough for full public release, but we are definately recruiting people who want to shape the community as well as be part of it.