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Fellow Entropians.......

ermik said:
thats the whole point, you assume you can always turn to legal actions if something goes wrong.

you cant, when you make a deposit you GIVE the money to MA, its basicly a gift. They then let you play with you avatar and your avatar can then use the deposited funds as currency ingame.

they can stop payment at any time , they can delete your avatar at any time, even without having to inform you first och give you a reason why.

Still i love EU, i have great faith in the plattform, but please dont mistake this place for a IRL investment oportunity compared to other investment options irl, where you often have some kind of protection both legaly and finacially via laws ang regulations.
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I think Ermik does have a valid point here, it would be foolish to think that the CLDs are anywhere near as secure as an IRL investment.

I do think also think that if MA were to renege on their agreement with the CLD holders, which has been well documented in the various press releases, we would have significant legal grounds to pursue them on the grounds of fraud and misrepresentation.
Which would be incredibly stupid on their part, and why I think the OP's assertions are ludicrous.
 
Artrat said:
we would have significant legal grounds to pursue them on the grounds of fraud and misrepresentation.
Which would be incredibly stupid on their part, and why I think the OP's assertions are ludicrous.
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Yes, OP's claims are a bit out there but how many times has MA changed the game in some important way that cost us all a ton of cash(foot guards come squarely to mind here)? How many times have they been sued over it(zero, I think)?

The idea of legal recourse is an important one when buying any stock and here we have none. The idea of transparency is massively important when buying stock and here we have none. This thing we're buying is an investment based on trust alone. It's an investment but is not a 'stock' as it's commonly known.
 
I agree with you 100% (except about the legal recourse, it would be tricky and we might not win, but I think we would have a case).

But I think all the jumping up and down and shouting and screaming is silly untill MA actually does something wrong. That for me in the case of the CLDs is the quarterly financials. If MA fails to provide these I will be right at the front of the mob with the pitchforks.

But until that happens (and I doubt it will), this is all just unsubstantiated accusations and conspiracy theories. Based primarily on the assumption of a few people that MA has messed with the loot return. People have been whining about loot since I got here in 2007, NOTHING HAS CHANGED!

Even back then there were the "Boohoo, I lost XXXXXk ped in X months" threads (anyone remember Scudd's megathread?).

EU is a game and it costs money to play. You get to determine the cost of that play.

Just like real life if you drive around in a Civic it will cost $, but if you want roar around in a ferrari it will cost $$$$$$. How would you feel in real life if the Ferrari drivers kept whining about how costly driving is?
 
When I saw a thread from valentin, I didn't expect to get anything interesting from it, most likely some weird logic.

I was right :laugh:
 
sitram said:
When I saw a thread from valentin, I didn't expect to get anything interesting from it, most likely some weird logic.

I was right :laugh:
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HEY! Dont call Valentin weird.... he is just special :silly2:
 
Kimmi said:
HEY! Dont call Valentin weird.... he is just special :silly2:
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Yes, you're right, but i was referring to the logic not the person.
 
Hey the OP made sense when I first read it. Thank god I didn't reply. I've since sobered up and now I realize I woulda felt like a :dunce: had I replied earlier.

Menace
 
I'll just make 2 observations:

1) 28% ROI is very high. Gets even more absurd when you realise that FPC/SEE/SDS wasn't making payments from those kind of returns, why?

2) CLDs are a great way for MA to take money tied up in EU out of the game. Again, why?
 
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ofc 28% is to high to be true longtherm, so we can expect for shure it comes down to earth in not to far future

but lol at this 28% a year=62% return logic :laugh:
 
Dollymaus said:
ofc 28% is to high to be true longterm, so we can expect for shure it comes down to earth in not to far future

but lol at this 28% a year=62% return logic :laugh:
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Yea, that's why I consider this something akin to a pre ipo sale of stocks. We, "insiders", get a crack at land deeds at a really attractive price. Once they go out in the free market, i.e., MA runs out of deeds to sell at 1k, the price of each deed should rise until it is preforming at a more normal return... ~10-15% ROI. So we can expect the price of the deeds to rise to maybe 2k each on the free market as long as the income a deed producers holds steady at around 6 ped per week per deed.

And the return on the deeds has been very steady thus far which make this investment more promising as each week goes by. Now we can see that MA's income is pretty steady, exclusive of special events. The return on the deeds can gauge MA's income on a weekly basis, which is something we never had before.

That being, said, I wouldn't put my life savings in here. Maybe buy enough deeds to cover your weekly costs.
 
I'd like to know as well: where do the PEDs paying the weekly dividends come from ? :yup:

BTW, I have some other questions, in case people have any idea:
1 - What event happened end of November 2011, that caused the end of the "daily ATH's" ?
2 - How can be the CLD dividend amounts so regular ?
3 - Will the weekly dividends remain so high when MA has sold all CLDs and advertising them is no longer needed ?
 
Terminator said:
I'd like to know as well: where do the PEDs paying the weekly dividends come from ? :yup:

BTW, I have some other questions, in case people have any idea:
1 - What event happened end of November 2011, that caused the end of the "daily ATH's" ?
2 - How can be the CLD dividend amounts so regular ?
3 - Will the weekly dividends remain so high when MA has sold all CLDs and advertising them is no longer needed ?
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my guesses... hard to say if they are good guesses since MA is shut mouth on all of it...
1. Balancing Manager started doing his job a little (assuming there is a balancing manager - last guy that was officially announced as in that position removed it from his resume online I think?)
2. Auction Fees, Planet entry fees, and taxes on Places like Omegaton, Sakura and Genesis shops, etc. are counted as income, not just cut of loot profits... Auction is always fairly regular, so it makes sense if that's where majority of income comes from that it causes regulation downstream.
3. More important question -- will the dividends keep paying back after the ROI counter goes to 100% of the 1k, or will it suddenly stop at that point in time and the deeds will be useless? Remember MA changed the Apartment Deeds to remove the implication of 'ownership' about 2 years ago, so it would not be surprising if 100% of ROI is it, and that's all there is to it. Doubt that they'd be that completely stupid, but you never know.
 
I'm still curious by now if there any statement by MA that they take 90% of lootpool?
 
mastermesh said:
More important question -- will the dividends keep paying back after the ROI counter goes to 100% of the 1k, or will it suddenly stop at that point in time and the deeds will be useless? Remember MA changed the Apartment Deeds to remove the implication of 'ownership' about 2 years ago, so it would not be surprising if 100% of ROI is it, and that's all there is to it. Doubt that they'd be that completely stupid, but you never know.
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What are you trying to say with 'ROI counter goes to 100% of the 1k' ? If the ROI reaches 100% it just means that the entire investment is earned back within a year.... Why would it stop or become useless?

The whole deal is just too good to be true, which makes one think this is not the actual % calypso is earning. I'm not claiming to know what extactly is going on, but for sure something is.

Could be that MA is forfeiting their share of calypso in order to make the deeds as attractive as possible. In any case these percentages are not realistic and even less sustainable.
 
I think as long as we keep playing the bearers of the deeds will get payouts at around the current levels indefinitely. Hopefully, if the marketing push is a success then the payouts will actually increase.
 
I think the expression "return" is being used wrongly here.
If you put $100 in a bank account and get a 30% return, then after 1 year you will have $130 (i.e. +$30)
If you put $100 in cld and get payouts of 30% during one year you have $30 (i.e. -$70)
The difference is that you have bought a cld which has a "value" of 0.
The only way to make a profit is to:
1. Sell it to another player (does not cost MA anything)
2. Keep it for a sufficiently long time until the payments have increased to to a total more than you paid.

Personally I think that MA (or whoever makes the payments) reckon that a lot of the deed-owners will not be playing the game in three years time. (some will of course, but probably not all)
 
davidgr1200 said:
I think the expression "return" is being used wrongly here.
If you put $100 in a bank account and get a 30% return, then after 1 year you will have $130 (i.e. +$30)
If you put $100 in cld and get payouts of 30% during one year you have $30 (i.e. -$70)
The difference is that you have bought a cld which has a "value" of 0.
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Not only that, but consider what happens to most of the paidout return? It flows right back into the game.
 
sky west said:
What are you trying to say with 'ROI counter goes to 100% of the 1k' ? If the ROI reaches 100% it just means that the entire investment is earned back within a year.... Why would it stop or become useless?

The whole deal is just too good to be true, which makes one think this is not the actual % calypso is earning. I'm not claiming to know what extactly is going on, but for sure something is.

Could be that MA is forfeiting their share of calypso in order to make the deeds as attractive as possible. In any case these percentages are not realistic and even less sustainable.
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Yes, the percentages would seem to be rather high. But if we take MA's word that the money comes from revenue, and we can see that it has been fairly steady for the last several months now, we can predict that out into the future that the returns will be similar.

Assume the payouts of the land deeds remains fairly constant, as facts are bearing out so far...

Now instead of taking a negative outlook and saying that the percentages are too high, could it be possible that these land deeds are way undervalued at 1k peds each? Perhaps once the whole lot is sold and free market forces take over the pricing of them, they will go up in value. And that will have the effect of lowering the rate of return. Imagine, if you will, that the deeds sell out in the next few months and then the price then rises to 2k a piece. Why then, the rate of return would be a more acceptable 14-16%. That is much more in line as a risky investment. What if they go to 3k a piece? Then the ROI would be 9-10%

Perhaps this is a wonderful chance to make a nice little chunk of change....and earning a little extra peds each week. :)
 
Uvas said:
Yes, the percentages would seem to be rather high. But if we take MA's word that the money comes from revenue, and we can see that it has been fairly steady for the last several months now, we can predict that out into the future that the returns will be similar.

Assume the payouts of the land deeds remains fairly constant, as facts are bearing out so far...
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Like the ppl who took Mr. Madoffs word? He kept paying out for some time. Assumptions are the mother of all....

Uvas said:
Now instead of taking a negative outlook and saying that the percentages are too high, could it be possible that these land deeds are way undervalued at 1k peds each? Perhaps once the whole lot is sold and free market forces take over the pricing of them, they will go up in value. And that will have the effect of lowering the rate of return. Imagine, if you will, that the deeds sell out in the next few months and then the price then rises to 2k a piece. Why then, the rate of return would be a more acceptable 14-16%. That is much more in line as a risky investment. What if they go to 3k a piece? Then the ROI would be 9-10%
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I understand how my arguments can be interpreted as negative, I however prefer the term realistic. If the deeds were overvalued the market will determine what the price should be. So far I'm not seeing any deeds offered for more then their initial value. In fact, only about half of them have been sold so far. Deedprices can only rise if demand is larger then the supply.

As far as increasing the deed value to create a more realistic return, well that's just silly. It's like saying 'I'm paying too much intrest on my loan. Better loan some more so the intrest comes down.'

Uvas said:
Perhaps this is a wonderful chance to make a nice little chunk of change....and earning a little extra peds each week. :)
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Perhaps, it's not like that money is comming from any group in particular, right? It's what we dutch call 'Being presented a cigar comming from your own stock(of cigars).'
 
Corey 'Greyfox' said:
Okay let me explain(because it hasn't been explained at least a dozen times already)
First their was MA
Then MA wanted to focus on platform and systems so the split the Calypso dev team into a Company called FPC.
SEE offered to buy FPC and changed the name to SDS
SEE could not make the payments, so MA reposesed Calypso and all related
The new company for Calypso is called AR Universe
The land deeds are in effect shares in AR universe
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The statement: "SEE could not make the payments" is not true. There still is no official explanation from SEE.
 
LaraD said:
The statement: "SEE could not make the payments" is not true. There still is no official explanation from SEE.
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It is the explanation that MA gave. Until SEE gives an alternative explanation, preferably with some proof, there is no reason to assume it was otherwise.
 
remontoire said:
It is the explanation that MA gave. Until SEE gives an alternative explanation, preferably with some proof, there is no reason to assume it was otherwise.
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To me it's just a bunch of crap. I don't believe anything MindArk tends to say anymore.

~Danimal
 
danimal01 said:
To me it's just a bunch of crap. I don't believe anything MindArk tends to say anymore.

~Danimal
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No matter how much we distrust MA, especially as the sole source of information in such a case, until at least SEE has said something, MA's word is all we have. Seriously, how long can it possibly take for SEE to make the statement they promised ?
 
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