Mission Rewards Rebalancing

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It should be no problem implementing that system.

It is, however, not a good idea - it would allow complete newbs to complete uber missions this way, and someone with level 10 in Laser Sniper shouldn't be able to complete an araneatrox mission.

Would take the lower level player a very long time to get anywhere in the mission doing 10% of the damage. That would only be 0.10 of the mission credit on that mob since they are 1 point per kill mobs. Wouldn't you like to have your disciple out hunting big mobs with you?:silly2:
 
Would take the lower level player a very long time to get anywhere in the mission doing 10% of the damage. That would only be 0.10 of the mission credit on that mob since they are 1 point per kill mobs. Wouldn't you like to have your disciple out hunting big mobs with you?:silly2:

Yes, it would take 10 times longer, but the ammo spent would be the same.

Doesn't change a thing though, imo this dilutes the "achievement" character of such missions.
 
I feel like a broken record having to restate the same information over and over again... please read this LINK!

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...wards-change&p=2945113&viewfull=1#post2945113

~Danimal

I read it, thanks. Now, what were the answers to Jehu's questions? Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see them answered there.

It is, however, not a good idea - it would allow complete newbs to complete uber missions this way, and someone with level 10 in Laser Sniper shouldn't be able to complete an araneatrox mission.

I can see your point, but I'd argue people choosing not to team hunt because of preferring to do solo missions for the skills and then potentially getting bored of the grind and quitting would be worse. At the end of the day, there are many missions; there's no real point in doing the spider mission when you're level 10 since you can do the daiki/traesk/rippersnapper/corn/etc missions instead. You don't really gain anything by doing the big ones first, it's not like the spider mission gives you way more reward for your time. Last time I had a quick look, Argo seemed to be the best iron mission from that point of view.
 
Yes, it would take 10 times longer, but the ammo spent would be the same.

Doesn't change a thing though, imo this dilutes the "achievement" character of such missions.

Though, is it an achievement to have a mod merc/simular fast+relatively eco weapon, or to be in a soc where you can borrow one without any problems? If you have a fast weapon, you can do way more spiders/hour (it's a double factor: the less time you spend shooting, the less time you spend fapping, the less the spider regens, and again the faster it will take).

The obvious problem I have with the iron missions is the time constraint. Because of odd rules, I have to wait until next year to take any longer vacation, so I can pretty much only do missions evenings+weekends. And by the next summer (when I hopefully will get some real time off), the missions, as they are today, will be gone.

(Also I get too easily distracted lol, I can't do more than 50 longteeth before going to something else...)

I read it, thanks. Now, what were the answers to Jehu's questions? Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see them answered there.

I can see your point, but I'd argue people choosing not to team hunt because of preferring to do solo missions for the skills and then potentially getting bored of the grind and quitting would be worse.

I see that's a problem right now: Low-level (relatively lesser-level) people want to join the fun, maybe they even enter teams on longtooth and eomons - but they quickly get disappointed that they never gets any mission points. After all, right now half of the population is proably doing the (migrational) iron missions to get as far as possible before the change kicks in.

At the end of the day, there are many missions; there's no real point in doing the spider mission when you're level 10 since you can do the daiki/traesk/rippersnapper/corn/etc missions instead.

I guess that will change with the new system: Let's say 10 000 daikiba won't give any stamina gains at all (seeing the nusul mission on Arkadia apparently doesn't give stamina). 10 000 traeskerons will maybe give 0.5 stamina points. 10 000 Atrox 1 stamina points. 10 000 spiders 2 stamina points. From MAs point of view, more "balanced". From players point of view, maybe fewer people will care with the missions after the change - maybe doing 10 000 small mobs for a small reward feels like a waste of time, and doing 10 000 spiders will either be a very long term goal (with the risk of further risk longer ahead) or something for the well equipped players who can save on armor decay by using a faster gun and doesn't have to pay % on that fast gun.

But back again to the other point: Giving fractions of points for killing in a team I don't think will make beginners go through the 10k spider mission. And again, I don't think it (practically) would be possible to implement it before the VU where the missions are changed anyway so it wouldn't be applicable on the current mission rules and during the current migration.

Let's say a beginner with opalo teams up with an uber. The uber will grind through up to 10k spiders, and the beginner will at that point be at 1k spiders (if doing 10% of the damage). Unless the beginner, staying with opalo, will find 9 other ubers to hunt with, it will be very tough to complete the entire chain. More likely, after the beginner have reached the 1000 level, he might have good enough skills to use let's say a korss, and then he might team up with some medium level players and kill another thousand(s). Maybe the next thousand(s) will take him to a level where he's abel to use apis - and now he's at least theoretically able to do the rest by himself (if he survives financially).
 
I don't see why, even if MA HQ had decided their developers had to type using their toes that day it would be pretty easy.

Having been a senior programmer for over 25 years and involved with a program with over 500,000 lines of code and 25 other programmers working on the same program, trust me it would not be a walk in the park. Just writing the code to keep track of every player and every team all the time and having to check for a new team constantly would be a nightmare, not counting the time it would take for the server to keep up, which would have to run a constant loop checking all those things all the time. Can you imagine how that would slow the system down? Remember guys we are talking about a group that released a VU and someone change the name on crystals pile in the cave and it took 2 months for them to find and fix the problem.

Don't take this as being rude because it is not meant to be and I don't mean to offend anyone but you have no idea what it take to work on a program of this size and have it run smoothly. It is a real task and I would say that this program has much more than 500K lines of code.
 
Just writing the code to keep track of every player and every team all the time and having to check for a new team constantly would be a nightmare, not counting the time it would take for the server to keep up, which would have to run a constant loop checking all those things all the time. Can you imagine how that would slow the system down?

The percentage of the mob you killed must be calculated already anyway, for loot. I doubt it'd take one of MA's developers one full day to implement the change. They may not choose to do it, but I can't believe they will choose not to do it because of the effort required.
 
The percentage of the mob you killed must be calculated already anyway, for loot. I doubt it'd take one of MA's developers one full day to implement the change. They may not choose to do it, but I can't believe they will choose not to do it because of the effort required.

That's the easy part: Just apply same algorithm as when splitting stackables.

Let's say there is an imaginary new material: Animal Mission point Oil, worth 1 PEC/k and that all mission mobs drop it, one in each loot. Now, you get a mission saying: "I need 1500 units of Mission point Oil. Now go out get it, and give me at least that amount." (If you give more it just get returned.) During hunt, you get let's say 0-100 units, representing percentage of your damage. And when you have gathered your 1500 units, you return to your mission broker. (This mean if you hunt all by yourself you need to kill 15 mobs, if you do it in team with other people and you typically do 10% of total damage, you need to be part of 150 mobs).

That's probably the easiest way of implementing it - mission brokers can now handle materials. The downside is proably it will cuase more strain on loot servers and to database, with one more very common material to handle.

The other way is: Think as above - assume a mob always drop 100 mission point oil (internally). Apply the normal looting algorithm as above, divide it into let's say player a 50 units, player b 45 units, player c 5 units. Now, don't drop the oil, instead add the counter on their missions appropiately: Player A gets +0.50 mission points, player B gets +0.45 mission points and player c +0.05 mission points.

To be able to do this in a system efficient way, *internally* count all mission points as hundreds. If someone has 150.00 mission points, store it in a longint as 15 000 mission points. If someone else has 4.75 mission points, store it internally as 4.75 mission points. When showing to the hunter the progression, *then* do the conversion; instead of showing 4750 mission points insert a "." before the last two numbers: 47.50.

When dividing the mission points, to simplify, do it like this: Round the damage percentage down to nearest integer (if someone did 48.9 dmg round it to 48). Then add all mission points together, let's say you get 97 and you notice you have 3 mission points over. Now divide those 3 fractional mission points beginning with the one who did most damage and down (if the oddity happens you get 3 fractional mission point and only two hunters in team, dunno how it would happen, you once again begin with the hunter with highest score). (Always give max to the top hunter to begin with sounds unfair as compared to the opalo hunters doing let's say 0.9, but this method will at least insure that each mob killed will result in 1.00 mission points total, and the rounding error for the one who did top damage will be less than for the "lowest level" hunter.). Or if someone can figure out a smarter way.
 
That's the easy part: Just apply same algorithm as when splitting stackables.

Yep, and then change the variable counting mission kills from an integer to a decimal, and award fractional kill points. Job done in time for an early lunch.
 
Objection, your honour!

Having been a senior programmer for over 25 years and involved with a program with over 500,000 lines of code and 25 other programmers working on the same program, trust me it would not be a walk in the park.

The number of lines alone says next to zero about the quality or complexity of an application.

Well documented and properly separated into logical units (and clean interface definitions) it is not more complicated to deal with 500k lines than dealing with 500 lines.

Just writing the code to keep track of every player and every team all the time and having to check for a new team constantly would be a nightmare, not counting the time it would take for the server to keep up, which would have to run a constant loop checking all those things all the time

They already do that, and no, it's not a nightmare, actually a database doesn't care of you change only one or a few hundred values in the same record.

And it is not needed to "constantly check for a new team" - the moment a player creates one, a record is added.
You make it sound like you'd have to "poll" every xx seconds, which is clearly not needed.

Can you imagine how that would slow the system down? Remember guys we are talking about a group that released a VU and someone change the name on crystals pile in the cave and it took 2 months for them to find and fix the problem.

Next to zero impact on the server load when you just distribute kill points on top of the loot - the rest (calculating the share) is already there (for loot) and they do already keep track of everything.
(which kinda proves that it is neither hard to code nor a "server load nightmare" - even MA coders were able to do that)


And btw - 25 years ago NO application had 500k lines of code. Not even 500k machine code.

Bill Gates said:
640K is more memory than anyone will ever need on a computer
 
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Never read an entire thread that was more than 2 pages before...

I've only just noticed this mission reward change/update/balance/nerf/improvement/justification/mishap/error/correction/way forward/way back/fair/unfair/ (delete where applicable), thing, after updating the game on my laptop... I am so out of touch...

I impressed myself by reading through all the posts and I think I finally get it, even in my soporific state.

The one thing this has taught me is that I now realise that missions ruined my life.

'Hey Clam. Fancy a team hunt?'

'No thanks. I'm doing one of the missions'

Don't get me wrong. I can enjoy a lazy rainy afternoon mindlessly plugging away at some baby fishes etc, but it seems to me that since missions came in that's all I've been doing... and it's not cheap... and it can be incredibly dull! Still, I neeeeed those skills so bad.... probably not.

I have come away from this thread feeling somehow sullied or dirty to have taken so much of my time 'grinding' away at various mobs. No longer do I discover something new or bump into somebody in the middle of nowhere. Same old place. Same old mobs. It is for what at the end of the day? A tad more skills that may or may not make a tad more difference? That may or may not be worth anything? The 'verse to me has become just a one big grind and I no longer explore or discover. I have forgotten how to dance in my underwear!

Same old places. same old mobs...

Of course nobody is to blame but myself for this. I wasn't forced or cajoled into partaking in the missions, it's what I fell into.

Scuffing the edges of the topic, it seems obvious that changes must be implemented. Obvious that there will some of us affected more than others. From what I understand the people who will be mostly affected will be those people who have just completed a 500/5000 mission. Other than that we will all slip onto the same hymn-sheet, so to speak. The fact that some of us would of received Nova frags for doing one mission chain and some of us get a small skill gain doesn't really bother me. It's just what each player was doing in that point of this game the way the game was at the time. One could argue that the 'balance' which is sought may come from the fact that 100 Fouls will not get you 1 agility anymore. Swings and roundabouts.

Anyway, I'm not sure how it will all turn out but I do know that for the most part, like a wrinkly old lap-dancer, my grinding days are over. And as my dear old grandmother would say 'Skills are a bag of shite' :)
 
So did we end up getting the details of the changes yet, or are we still waiting?
 
The one thing this has taught me is that I now realise that missions ruined my life.

'Hey Clam. Fancy a team hunt?'

'No thanks. I'm doing one of the missions'

Don't get me wrong. I can enjoy a lazy rainy afternoon mindlessly plugging away at some baby fishes etc, but it seems to me that since missions came in that's all I've been doing... and it's not cheap... and it can be incredibly dull! Still, I neeeeed those skills so bad.... probably not.

I have come away from this thread feeling somehow sullied or dirty to have taken so much of my time 'grinding' away at various mobs. No longer do I discover something new or bump into somebody in the middle of nowhere. Same old place. Same old mobs. It is for what at the end of the day? A tad more skills that may or may not make a tad more difference? That may or may not be worth anything? The 'verse to me has become just a one big grind and I no longer explore or discover. I have forgotten how to dance in my underwear!

Same old places. same old mobs...


Well, to be honest, I thought that even before the missions were introduced it was one big grind. For me at least the missions gave me some sense of purpose. Now at least you got some reward for grinding.

I've managed to only complete 3 iron missions. More would have been madness because of the endlessness. Simply to boring to kill 16500 mobs. But it there was always another smaller iron mission (100/500/1000) to get some diversity.

I dont think the iron missions made it more boring. It always has been boring. At least the hunting was.

Exploring still is for me the most fun part and the iron missions did not in any way affect that negatively. Maybe even the opposite is true because the iron missions made me hunt mobs I had never even bothered to hunt before.

Don't blame your playstyle on the enviroment. It's all in your own hands, as it always has been... :rolleyes:
 
Don't blame your playstyle on the enviroment. It's all in your own hands, as it always has been... :rolleyes:

Ohh, C;'mon be fair. He said it himself already.

Jamphrie:

thanks for the entertaining post! +rep

jay :)
 
Me & my soc mates were always doing team hunts... Since the missions came and we were all blinded by the sparkle of 'easy' skills, it's very rare that we are all on the same planet and even if we are, we're all just grinding away individually on our respective missions.

TBH there have been times when we have team hunted on a mission, just to allow a soc mate to kill something that he can't kill solo.

IMHO opinion the 'missions' have severely curtailed the team hunt/social aspect of societies.
 
Me & my soc mates were always doing team hunts... Since the missions came and we were all blinded by the sparkle of 'easy' skills, it's very rare that we are all on the same planet and even if we are, we're all just grinding away individually on our respective missions.

TBH there have been times when we have team hunted on a mission, just to allow a soc mate to kill something that he can't kill solo.

IMHO opinion the 'missions' have severely curtailed the team hunt/social aspect of societies.

Was already sugested as Team Missions.
Missions wich are enought hard to be not doable solo for avreage player but in team where each team member get kill point on same mob.
We have few ocasions - events, LG, husk ... where biger group of players is needed, many of them are fun and successfull.
We shud have also iron team missions too.
 
I have thought of a compromise:

Implement just a few of the changes on the scheduled date. These should be newbie missions, because a) the new system is meant to benefit newbies, so they say; and b) that allows people struggling to complete 1k steelbirds, 10k aurlis etc the badly-needed extra time.

The rest of the changes should be re-scheduled (for just after christmas? This seems to be a popular suggestion).

Not only would this compromise please a sustantial number of players, it would allow the impact of the changes to be assessed, and bugs(you know there are gonna be bugs, right?) identified and fixed before wholesale chaos sets in.

jay:)

EDIT: oops, meant to post this on this thread. Fixed
 
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Personally I think this could be good, no more nova as reward and only skills at end of mission... I say bring it on.

Personal i feel to get only nova in the loot is a polite way for MA to say " no loot ".
 
I don't really understand the whining...

We all had plenty of time to complete the missions under the old systems, well aware that they will be nerfed.

Yes, maybe we weren't able to complete all of them and yes, those who join after the nerf will have lower rewards, but this is neither the first nor the last nerf - only with the exception that we knew it month before.

If you didn't manage to complete all missions you wanted to, don't blame MA for giving us a lot of missions... *sigh*


And if it prevents other planet partners from handing out ridiculously high rewards to promote their planet in such an unfair way, then, yes, this nerf was direly needed, so get the fuck over it - or make use of the last couple of days and complete some more instead of wasting this time on posting whiny shit on the forum.
 
I don't really understand the whining...

We all had plenty of time to complete the missions under the old systems, well aware that they will be nerfed.

Yes, maybe we weren't able to complete all of them and yes, those who join after the nerf will have lower rewards, but this is neither the first nor the last nerf - only with the exception that we knew it month before.

If you didn't manage to complete all missions you wanted to, don't blame MA for giving us a lot of missions... *sigh*


And if it prevents other planet partners from handing out ridiculously high rewards to promote their planet in such an unfair way, then, yes, this nerf was direly needed, so get the fuck over it - or make use of the last couple of days and complete some more instead of wasting this time on posting whiny shit on the forum.

Why cant the other planets compit to get more players to theres planet.:wtg:
 
Why cant the other planets compit to get more players to theres planet.:wtg:

???

Sure they can. And they should.

Let's have a look at what i wrote:

... other planet partners from handing out ridiculously high rewards to promote their planet in such an unfair way...

Handing out 3 or 4 times the rewards other planets hand out is not "competing", that's plain "unfair" - i think you will agree there.



This is, btw, the only reason why we have this nerf now - i guess i don't have to name the planet partner that's to blame here...
 
Why cant the other planets compit to get more players to theres planet.:wtg:

There are other ways to compete than to put in bigger and bigger mission rewards. If all planets were just competing by doing that, we'd end up with a bunch of "Kill a mob and gain 1 Stamina" missions in the end :rolleyes:

There needs to be rules for mission rewards, just like there needs to be rules for item stats, so that the game is equal for all partners. Else, we'll just end up with a very badly balanced game.
 
I don't really understand the whining...

We all had plenty of time to complete the missions under the old systems, well aware that they will be nerfed.

Yes, maybe we weren't able to complete all of them and yes, those who join after the nerf will have lower rewards, but this is neither the first nor the last nerf - only with the exception that we knew it month before.

If you didn't manage to complete all missions you wanted to, don't blame MA for giving us a lot of missions... *sigh*


And if it prevents other planet partners from handing out ridiculously high rewards to promote their planet in such an unfair way, then, yes, this nerf was direly needed, so get the fuck over it - or make use of the last couple of days and complete some more instead of wasting this time on posting whiny shit on the forum.

What he said.

There are other ways to compete than to put in bigger and bigger mission rewards. If all planets were just competing by doing that, we'd end up with a bunch of "Kill a mob and gain 1 Stamina" missions in the end :rolleyes:

There needs to be rules for mission rewards, just like there needs to be rules for item stats, so that the game is equal for all partners. Else, we'll just end up with a very badly balanced game.

And what he said.

This could have all been avoided of course if MA had just developed some proper procedures to begin with, but hey, at least they're doing it now. And hopefully in the future they will be a bit more careful when introducing new systems.
 
The problem is that MA realize their shortcomings in that they have difficulties in recruiting new players (why it is so I will not discuss here).

It was one of the main reasons that the development of the new planets to recruit new players to the game.

So then the question is why are they new planets has to follow MA's agenda for we know that it does not work so well because the customer base, it is even less players than a year ago ( if you look at the activity on Entropia tracker ).

MA should perhaps listen more to their new partners who are the owners of the new planets and not follow the same track that gave them difficulty in recruiting new players to the game.

Then there's the question of what happened to the man who was hired by MA and said he would double the number of players. and nobody has heard more about him after that.

:twocents:
 
Edit: is not Charlie's post, baaah!
 
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Dear MA just make it possible to skill up naturaly on higher levels and we dont need any adjustments to iron missions - in that case we dont need missions at all.
Your decision to sell us attributes trought missions for a lot higher price after 21. august do not solve flaws in skill system.
Agreed :wise: Also lets us skill Stamina this way too :cool:

Thanks for saying it Dan :wtg:
 
MA should perhaps listen more to their new partners who are the owners of the new planets and not follow the same track that gave them difficulty in recruiting new players to the game.

well either they're going to come in with the assumption they can make EU like other RPG's and just give stats and other rewards very quickly with little effort or they'll say the same thing that many players have told them but chose to ignore for various reasons.

Atm we've got MA following the pvp path, the vast majority of players want to just hunt mobs, mine or craft so we'll just have to see how long it lasts compared to the social networking bandwagon they tried to jump on a few years ago.
 
OMG , please don't change yet , I am almost ready.
 
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