Mission Rewards Rebalancing

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How many rifle points would it take to gain 1 agility?
I'm on 7400 points already in rifle, a 30 ped reward aint exactly going to do much for me now is it?
Or how many ranged weapon skills will add to my strength? none.
Yes, I do mellee a little, been whipping the merps to kingdom come just to skill up my whip levels, but thats hardly moving the strength bar either, as it's a non sib whip.
An example, all my merp kills have been with a whip, and i'm on 2600/5k only.

Simple they just need to give several options as reward. High lvl players > attribute. Medium level > skill. Ofc make it optional. Then they wouldn't need to nerf the attribute gain from missions, ppl can still get it if they want too instead of skills.
 
It may not be good for now, but I think overall this is needed.
To me it means that a new planet partner can't just let me kill 10 mobs and get 1 agility, etc.
Have some accountability and way to moderate it. There were those cases of missions being repeatable (because of bugs) on another planet.
I do not think they will change most of the iron missions, like the "originals"
IMO the rewards you get for 10k trox, etc like the big ones aren't out of any balance and can't see how they would be changed.

Damn Dynamics!
 
Attributes are the most interesting for me in these missions, even thou'
I see some skillrewards as a help to trigger a certain skill.
Whats the point keep doing these after I trigger that skill?
For others, these skillboosts are probably a boost they see as the
most interesting in these missions.
So in the end some will gain some will lose, as always.
I think all my last depos for the 1-1½ year has gone to do these
missions, go figure how many depos I'll do after these changes. :D
I'm happy thou' that MA announced this now, some decisions are way
easier to do now. :)
 
Guess i never reach 100 agility now then :mad:
 
No, this is not necessarily a "nerf" to all missions.

In general there will be a heavier focus on skill rewards rather than attributes, or mission tokens.

Good idea for low/mid lvl players :yay: i rather have some extra skill that get me closer to lvl100 then just a few attributes that give a little HP gain.

All missions will have their Nova Fragment rewards replaced with skill rewards.

Finaly it gives a reason to do those missions :lolup:
 
That's kind of good, I guess...

But attributes are never, ever less important than other skills as rewards. Ever. Under any circumstances.

I hope you keep the Stamina gain.

Damn, keep the attribs.
But it does not sound good, I e.g. have indeed been delaying doing the missions... for a reason.
 
A question to Mindark. Is it the same person who decide over loot and skill balancing as in the early years? Thank you in advance.
 
It has already been stated that all mobs will eventually have their own missions, and given how few do at present, why not apply the the changes to new missions only?

If the existing missions were that unbalanced you would have pulled the plug on them or played about with the rewards long before now.

Introduce lots more missions, and the existing ones will be balanced out anyway due to their small number in comparison to the total available.


This can actually prevent new players from reaching higher attribute levels because they gained a lot of points from missions while their attributes where still easy to obtain through normal activity.

Nobody is forced to do the missions, so if newer people choose to do them and lose the advantage of easier and faster attribute gains at the lower levels, that's their problem. Why should a considerable part of the player base lose out due to the stupidity or impatience of a few? :(

I appreciate that players of all levels should be looked after, but if you don't understand how valuable attributes are compared to skills that can be freely traded and are therefore readily available, you really don't undertand your player base.


All missions will have their Nova Fragment rewards replaced with skill rewards.

This is good and the ONLY change you should be making to existing missions!

Have you considered those of us that have already fought through the nova reward missions, particularly the 5k Iron Challenge ones, and thought about "buying" the novas back in return for some skills? :)
 
No, this is not necessarily a "nerf" to all missions.

In general there will be a heavier focus on skill rewards rather than attributes, or mission tokens.
All missions will have their Nova Fragment rewards replaced with skill rewards. Skill rewards will be calculated in a way that will take into account the actual difficulty of the creature rather than just its health.

In the end this means that some missions will have their rewards increased while others will get decreased.

Also, this is a MindArk decision that all planet partners has to follow, but I do believe that skill rewards is in most cases, at least to low/mid level players much more valuable than attributes or Mission tokens. Also I know many are hesitant to complete missions that reward attributes because they want to get their attributes high before earning any through missions. This can actually prevent new players from reaching higher attribute levels because they gained a lot of points from missions while their attributes where still easy to obtain through normal activity.

What about players that did the missions and got novas for 5k mobs, such as trox/feff/spider ?
Will they have mission "refund"?
 
I'm at a loss really. I'll see what changes take place. One thing I do know is KIM promised us that the original mission rewards would not be changed. The nova I'm ok with, that needed to be removed ages ago. But does that mean, for those who have done the 5K stages will we be reimbursed with the new skills since we already completed those stages or is it to late now & only for new participants? :(.

~Mark~
 
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If it's not broke.. don't fix it.

People enjoy the attribute missions and spend alot of money doing them...so now you're going to mess with that? Or is this just a ploy to get people running around trying to get these missions done before the deadline so there will be alot more ped spent doing so?

Half the reason I hunt is because even when I'm getting crappy returns on a mission mob I think well at least I'll get the mission rewards.

If you mess it up where it's really not worth anyone's time to do the missions... Then I for one will be hunting less.

And yeah, I'm whining. :p
 
revised guidelines for proper balancing of mission rewards have been provided to the Planet Partners.

No matter what you think of the rest of it, this is good and should have been introduced at the start.

I mean seriously, some missions on some planets gives crazy easy attribute rewards, and some give skill/attribute rewards equal to missions that are 10x harder on another planet :eyecrazy:
 
I had a bad feeling about this when I first heard about it, but having read Charlie's post this actually sounds quite positive (assuming it works out like he says it will). Inevitably some will be losing out though (e.g. where nova rewards are replaced with skills) so I hope the changes are not too extreme.

Anyone who thinks they prefer attributes to skills should do more research on the skill system. Skills are way more useful than attributes for 99.9% of people.

But perhaps you could add some attributes in the multiple choice rewards so that people can choose between attributes and skills. I would take skills any day. I hope we can still get Stamina though, since it's currently the only way we can get it. Unless there are plans to introduce Stamina gains from some kind of normal skilling activity, in which case you can get rid of them as far as I'm concerned.

Some of the more hysterical people posting here should also note that no-one said attribute rewards will be removed completely.
 
Not sure what to think yet.

I think it's a little late in the game to be implementing something like this with missions that have been around for over a year on Calypso.

- Removing Novas, that's a + and should been done when missions were introduced without them.

- Changing Attribute gains to Skill gains sounds good to me. I feel attributes shouldn't be gained that easily, especially ones like Psyche that require real skill grinding to increase. Players should earn their attributes by skilling...it was the only real indicator of how much people actually play without chipping in their skills...all the missions really skewed that.

- I'm not really happy about having the end rewards changed on 10k's that have been started, that seems kind of unfair to those who have completed them and those trying to complete them since some will gain more and others gain less based on the changes.

- Keep the 1stamina gain at the end of the final 10k challenge since it's the only way we have to gain that attribute.

Overall, it sounds like it may be good in the long term for the mission system but utter shit for those of us who have been working on them and those who have completed them in the past and were stuck with crap rewards or get better rewards because they finished them prior to the re-vamp.
 
Also I know many are hesitant to complete missions that reward attributes because they want to get their attributes high before earning any through missions.

Each time experience is gained in an attribute through gameplay, assuming the gameplayer is delaying their mission path intentionally, a fraction of value is added to future gain of 1 point's value. This is done by many people as you stated in your post, Charlie.

If this is rebalanced, or disappears completely, it's wiping a lot of ppl's investment right out. This is a delicate issue that needs to be addressed thoroughly both in MA's explication to players as well as following thru in-game with an appropriate replacement system, IMO.

This is a game described in foundation by some as microeconomics, so it's accurate to theorize eco players will take this hit seriously. New players still have the same dynamic lottery privileges as anyone.
 
- Changing Attribute gains to Skill gains sounds good to me. I feel attributes shouldn't be gained that easily, especially ones like Psyche that require real skill grinding to increase. Players should earn their attributes by skilling...it was the only real indicator of how much people actually play without chipping in their skills...all the missions really skewed that.
But it creates more disparity by separating those who had this benefit and those who did not. It's not fair that new players will have even less chance of ever achieving a respectable skill level.
 
You raise some very good points. It's not really the attributes themselves I'm worried about losing out on. I just hope that the end rewards arn't tweaked too badly. When you're doing a 10 K grind on a mob, it's knowing you'll get something good out of it, that keeps you (or at least me) going :)

I had a bad feeling about this when I first heard about it, but having read Charlie's post this actually sounds quite positive (assuming it works out like he says it will). Inevitably some will be losing out though (e.g. where nova rewards are replaced with skills) so I hope the changes are not too extreme.

Anyone who thinks they prefer attributes to skills should do more research on the skill system. Skills are way more useful than attributes for 99.9% of people.

But perhaps you could add some attributes in the multiple choice rewards so that people can choose between attributes and skills. I would take skills any day. I hope we can still get Stamina though, since it's currently the only way we can get it. Unless there are plans to introduce Stamina gains from some kind of normal skilling activity, in which case you can get rid of them as far as I'm concerned.

Some of the more hysterical people posting here should also note that no-one said attribute rewards will be removed completely.
 
No, this is not necessarily a "nerf" to all missions.

In general there will be a heavier focus on skill rewards rather than attributes, or mission tokens.
All missions will have their Nova Fragment rewards replaced with skill rewards. Skill rewards will be calculated in a way that will take into account the actual difficulty of the creature rather than just its health.

In the end this means that some missions will have their rewards increased while others will get decreased.

Also, this is a MindArk decision that all planet partners has to follow, but I do believe that skill rewards is in most cases, at least to low/mid level players much more valuable than attributes or Mission tokens. Also I know many are hesitant to complete missions that reward attributes because they want to get their attributes high before earning any through missions. This can actually prevent new players from reaching higher attribute levels because they gained a lot of points from missions while their attributes where still easy to obtain through normal activity.

These last 2 sentences seem to be the opposite of each other. If someone waited to do a mission till their attribute was high, why would this prevent them from reaching higher lvl attributes? If you play EU for a couple months and have 40+ agility you are doing very well and can spend the next 7 years like the rest of us trying to reach lvl 80+

Sounds like the the attribute cap at 100 is true and if your a new player and started doing these missions you will never break 100.

I believe the attribute cap to be true and was waiting to raise my lvls. I figure another 15-20years and most will be close to 100, then I start doing missions to go over 100.

But now... well, if they take out the old missions that you could gain attributes, the skill gap will be solidified. You will never be able to reach the lvl of the ppl before you.

As to how important an attribute point compared to skills are, I don't even think there is a question.

When you guys rebalance you should consider if the person could had went out and bought the skill for cheaper than the mission, once ppl find out that its a bad lose for what was gained, they wont be so eager for more missions.

I may do some of the skill mission for entertainment but not intentionally like I would had done attribute missions. No depo for skill missions.
 
- Changing Attribute gains to Skill gains sounds good to me. I feel attributes shouldn't be gained that easily, especially ones like Psyche that require real skill grinding to increase. Players should earn their attributes by skilling...it was the only real indicator of how much people actually play without chipping in their skills...all the missions really skewed that.

Yeah this is actually one of my major problems with the current way the mission rewards are, especially as more planets come online and put them in easier and easier missions :dunno:

Then again, I have finished a whole bunch of those myself (not many compared to the average I am sure but) :laugh:
 
Yeah this is actually one of my major problems with the current way the mission rewards are, especially as more planets come online and put them in easier and easier missions :dunno:

Then again, I have finished a whole bunch of those myself (not many compared to the average I am sure but) :laugh:

I haven't done any of the easy attribute missions on other planets and I have not gained many attributes total from Iron challenges since I hardly have started many.

I'm just going to be bummed if I miss out on the gains provided from missions such as the final araneatrox evade reward.
 
But it creates more disparity by separating those who had this benefit and those who did not. It's not fair that new players will have even less chance of ever achieving a respectable skill level.

And those players who have 90+ attributes before the mission system gained majority of them from a different game system where you could sit and auto-click fap in pools of acid to skill, duplicate items, etc.

It wasn't fair to us who started 2-3 years after that. The way this attribute award system is isn't fair to those of us who started with 1 stamina and skilled for 2-3 years without the missions to get our attributes where they were without the gains provided from planets like ROCKtropia who give tons of Attributes for doing 100 mob noob missions.

Skill naturally to over 60 psyche, majority prior to the introduction of the new MF system and then tell me that the multitude of attribute awards are fair and just for new players while others had to work very hard to skill their attributes.

Attributes are something that show how hard you have worked and how much time you have actually put in to your avatar without the need of cheap missions or skill implants.
 
Charlie|Calypso

Why are u not giving us answers on the current event insteed of put up this kind of info ??? :scratch2:
 
But it creates more disparity by separating those who had this benefit and those who did not. It's not fair that new players will have even less chance of ever achieving a respectable skill level.

It sounds like it will be exactly the opposite. New players will have more skill rewards available from missions. The contribution attributes make to professions (and therefore towards achieving high levels) is very minor.

For example, 1 Agility adds 0.2% of a level in each of BLP and Laser damage. That's the same benefit as just 5 points in Inflict Ranged Damage.
 
Skills Nerf V2.0

Ironically, this will unbalance the skills more than the original skills nerf did. Way to go, MA. Brilliancy prize for you today.
 
- Changing Attribute gains to Skill gains sounds good to me. I feel attributes shouldn't be gained that easily, especially ones like Psyche that require real skill grinding to increase. Players should earn their attributes by skilling...it was the only real indicator of how much people actually play without chipping in their skills...all the missions really skewed that.

I'm in same progressbar in Agility since nov2005... there is no progress there at all. :D ;)
But I guess they'll do changes that is in the games best interest.
What they lose from my participation now on, they might gain x10 from others now. :)
 
Just to be clear, I never said all attribute rewards will be removed, because they wont. They will however be harder or easier to obtain depending on the mob, it makes little sense to award 1 strength for 100 Merp and 1 Strength for 5000 Kreltin. Most people also seem to vastly overestimate the usefulness of attributes vs skills even for higher level players. But yes I know it's cool having 100+ agility.

Clearly MindArk needed to impose some sort of restrictive guidelines on attributes or a planet partner could create ten new Merp-level mobs, give them all missions that award 1 agility for every 50 kills and suddenly everyone has 500 agility, and those hard earned naturally skilled agility points are suddenly worthless.
 
And those players who have 90+ attributes before the mission system gained majority of them from a different game system where you could sit and auto-click fap in pools of acid to skill, duplicate items, etc.

It wasn't fair to us who started 2-3 years after that. The way this attribute award system is isn't fair to those of us who started with 1 stamina and skilled for 2-3 years without the missions to get our attributes where they were without the gains provided from planets like ROCKtropia who give tons of Attributes for doing 100 mob noob missions.

Skill naturally to over 60 psyche, majority prior to the introduction of the new MF system and then tell me that the multitude of attribute awards are fair and just for new players while others had to work very hard to skill their attributes.

Attributes are something that show how hard you have worked and how much time you have actually put in to your avatar without the need of cheap missions or skill implants.

No, far from everyone used a ac to skill up, we actually played the game.
Sick and tired of this BS myth people keep pushing out, to be honest.
 
I'm a bit nervous about the changes, but as long as it's not a blatant nerf, and it really makes the missions better and more balanced then go for it.

I understand why people are concerned, but MA has to be able to make changes to improve on things that could have been done better in hindsight. EU has to be able to evolve to stay alive for the decades many of us would like it to.

But attributes are never, ever less important than other skills as rewards. Ever. Under any circumstances.

Currently they are. Like Oleg says, the attributes you gain in the missions have way less impact than the skill rewards. Not saying I don't like the attributes, but I wouldn't be doing many Iron missions just for the attributes whereas I would probably do many of them just for the skill rewards.
 
Just to be clear, I never said all attribute rewards will be removed, because they wont. They will however be harder or easier to obtain depending on the mob, it makes little sense to award 1 strength for 100 Merp and 1 Strength for 5000 Kreltin. Most people also seem to vastly overestimate the usefulness of attributes vs skills even for higher level players. But yes I know it's cool having 100+ agility.

Clearly MindArk needed to impose some sort of restrictive guidelines on attributes or a planet partner could create ten new Merp-level mobs, give them all missions that award 1 agility for every 50 kills and suddenly everyone has 500 agility, and those hard earned naturally skilled agility points are suddenly worthless.
Actually, I mostly agree with this. I just don't think Calypso needs to be changed.


Currently they are. Like Oleg says, the attributes you gain in the missions have way less impact than the skill rewards. Not saying I don't like the attributes, but I wouldn't be doing many Iron missions just for the attributes whereas I would probably do many of them just for the skill rewards.
To you, maybe. But the fact is, if I already have 2K PED of skill, 30 PED isn't going to make much difference. However, if I naturally have 2K PED of a skills, odds are that one whole attribute will make a huge difference for me.
 
Clearly MindArk needed to impose some sort of restrictive guidelines on attributes or a planet partner could create ten new Merp-level mobs, give them all missions that award 1 agility for every 50 kills and suddenly everyone has 500 agility, and those hard earned naturally skilled agility points are suddenly worthless.

They also need to issue more restrictive item guidelines, based on some of the stuff I have seen from other planets :coffee:
 
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