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accuracy enh

remontoire said:
Total for two cha 20/20 hunts:

hits: 3374
misses: 364
crits: 133

crits to hits: 3.941 %
crits to shots: 3.558 %

both hunts had 3 enhancers breaking, so ~630 shots / enhancer.
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And the hypothetical formula for crit rate predicts 4%, so it's holding up well. Thanks for the results!
 
A dev note on the enhancers would be nice too
 
AtamiKiangola said:
A dev note on the enhancers would be nice too
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Actually, i'm cool with accu enhancers at this point. It's reasonably demonstrated that crit rate (of hits) = 0.002*CHA and the enhancers increase CHA by 20% each. It would be nice to have a few precise words on break rate, though.

What i'd really like to have spelled out from the devs is the way skill mod attachments work, quantitatively. I have been able to measure an effect but there's too much variance to base decisions on.
 
Doer said:
Check two posts down. ;)

You also might review your earlier post in this thread and the replies. lol. I'm an old timer but i'm not that senile. :laugh:
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Oh man sorry Doer lol It was like 0500 at the time of my posting.. anyways I knew there was a reason I was "watching" this topic. Couldn't remember why.. just went back and re-read all the posts again :laugh:

~Danimal
 
Doer said:
Break rate
Summary of all my break rate tests to date:
141 accu. I enhancers on unamped imk2 (72 dmg/shot) lasted 129.400 shots: 918 shots/enh
33 accu. I & 37 accu. II enh. on amped imk2 (92 dmg/shot) lasted 28796 attacks or 24809 hits: 872, 778
30 accu. I & 35 accu. II enh. on amped imk2 (92 dmg/shot) lasted 27558 attacks or 23850 hits: 936, 802

It appears thus far that the break rate is not affected by amping the weapon. Interestingly, there may be a higher break rate with higher level enhancers though.

Effect on crit rate

Test one with two enhancers had a crit rate of 2.16%, while the new test two repeating the two enhancer test had a really high crit rate of 2.45% (584 out of 23850 hits, and i could feel it: you know how it gets sometimes so that you get two or three crits in a row on a regular basis?). The expected crit rate by the hypothetical formula is 2.24%, and that's plausible with these results but not in any way proven.
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Another small break rate test with the remaining enhancers (they are not economical at my CHA level and current price, so that's it for now):
10 accu. I & 7 accu. II enh. on amped imk2 (92 dmg/shot) lasted 7557 attacks or 6452 hits: 756, 1079

Out of a total of 7423 attacks, 6452 were hits (153 or 0.0237 crits) and 971 were misses, for a total hit rate of 0.8692.

Crit rate of 2.37% still around the 2.24% expected (and falls in between the two extremes set in the previous two tests with two enhancers). Anyway, based on the results in this thread, i consider this part (effect on crit rate) to be sufficiently verified for my taste.

The total results on break rate to date are:
141 accu. I enhancers on unamped imk2 (72 dmg/shot) lasted 129,400 shots: 918 shots/enh
73 accu. I & 79 accu. II enh. on amped imk2 (92 dmg/shot) lasted 63,911 shots: 875, 809 shots/enh

Lots of variance so no conclusions. Tentative observations are that amping may slightly increase break rate and tier level may do the same.
 
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I had acquired a few small lots of Accuracy Enhancer Is by mid-Feffox event and have collected additional data. This is for A204 amped imk2:

61557 shots
55 enhancers broken
1119 shots/enhancer

By making three assumptions:
  • first that amping doesn't affect break rate, which seems justifiable based on my overall test results and also when considering that Output Enhancers don't affect the output of any amp and could be thought of as simply ignoring the amp...
  • second that filling additional enhancer slots (tiers) doesn't affect the break rate of the other enhancers. This seems to be a reasonable assumption.
  • third that break rate hasn't been modified
... i can combine all my data for a total of 254868 shots with Accuracy Enhancer I, and 268 broken, or 951 shots/Accuracy Enhancer for imk2.

It could also be turned around and stated that, by observation of the similarity of break rate numbers when amped and unamped, etc., the three assumptions seem to be reasonably supported by the data (ie they are conclusions).

There is a large variance so this is all tentative.

A single Accuracy Enhancer brings me to 9.9 effective CHA, so it's not too surprising that my crit rate when running the enhancers this time around is 1.99%.

I do want to update my cost-benefit analysis of the enhancers. A player with unmaxed HA could potentially see a slightly lesser benefit of the enhancers due to the additional crits being generated only if an attack is already a hit. However, if the break rate is per hits rather than per attacks, that wouldn't matter. I assume again (as up above) that all enhancers use the same break mechanism and therefore there is reason to believe that Accuracy Enhancers break on a per attack, rather than a per hit basis. So to reiterate that would make the enhancers very slightly less economical for an unmaxed (Hit) situation.

In contrast to this, one of the strange quirks of the way that the value of the enhancer is calculated means that it's actually more economical to use Accuracy Enhancers when the (Dmg) is unmaxed compared to when it is maxed. Referring back to my first post in the thread, where i just used the case of maxed (Dmg), the reasoning goes like this:

If we have 951 shots/enhancer (what i have found so far with the imk2, but each weapon differs as we have already seen), that will generate 0.4%*(951*.9) = 3.4 extra crits per enhancer (this is for maxed (Hit)). Each of those crits does weapon max_damage more damage than an ordinary hit does. If (Dmg) is maxed, then max_damage is max_damage/(0.75*max_damage) = 1.33 times as much damage as an average hit, which means each crit generated is worth 1.33*attack_cost.

On the other hand, if (Dmg) is very low (say=0, the opposite extreme from maxed), then max_damage is max_damage/(0.625*max_damage) = 1.6 times as much damage as an average hit, and each crit generated by the enhancer is worth 1.6*attack_cost... 20% more than if (Dmg) is maxed!

Of course, because it's uncommon to have (Hit) maxed and (Dmg) very low, the two effects tend to cancel out somewhat. Nevertheless, I currently have a (Dmg) level that gets me a 1.42 ratio, and my HA is now relatively high since the change to (Hit)-->HA mapping.

The numbers predict that i can expect 3.35 crits/enhancer (it's slightly less than the 3.4 figure i used above because my (Hit) isn't maxed). An enhancer is worth the cost of 3.35*1.42= 4.75 shots. My attachments and amped imk2 cost 19.648 per shot, so if the assumptions hold, i can value the enhancers at 0.93 PEDs amped or 0.73 PEDs unamped ...

I think it's safe to say that Accuracy Enhancers are capable of increasing weapon economy in some situations if purchased with low enough markup, which was what i was trying to determine when i started out on this investigation a year ago. Interesting.
 
FYI tallied data for first 26 enhancers broken since the announced change to UL weapons to half the break rate for enhancers. Got 2114 uses/break for Accu I on the imk2, so it appears the change really was implemented. Most of those were without amp. I still don't think amp makes a difference but it's worth noting. Amps could easily have a 5% effect on break rate without it being obvious in the statistics due to the variance.

Might as well give the final report for the statistics pre-VU since that system is now obsolete:
425 accuracy I enhancers broke in 416,850 shots, for an average of 980 uses/break on the imk2. The average has oscillated above and below 1000 and ended so close to it that you can with very good confidence say the imk2 has a break rate of 1k per. These statistics are mostly with amp.
 
Doer said:
FYI tallied data for first 26 enhancers broken since the announced change to UL weapons to half the break rate for enhancers. Got 2114 uses/break for Accu I on the imk2, so it appears the change really was implemented. Most of those were without amp. I still don't think amp makes a difference but it's worth noting. Amps could easily have a 5% effect on break rate without it being obvious in the statistics due to the variance.

Might as well give the final report for the statistics pre-VU since that system is now obsolete:
425 accuracy I enhancers broke in 416,850 shots, for an average of 980 uses/break on the imk2. The average has oscillated above and below 1000 and ended so close to it that you can with very good confidence say the imk2 has a break rate of 1k per. These statistics are mostly with amp.
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It seems that you colect lots of data so i will ask you ;).

What is your break rate on enhancers related to peds cycled instead of nr of shoots?

I have just but a little sample so far but it seems that result is something around 1 enh break per 800-1200peds per slot (so using 5 slot filled weapoons would mean enh breaking every ~200peds cycled).

So far i am using two different weapons:
Lacerating Attack Nanochip XI teir 5 has break rate ~850peds per slot (fast weapon)
Arsonistic III TEN tier 2 (now its 3 recently) has break rate ~1050peds per slot (very slow weapon)

cost in my case is: TT decay + TT implant + SME used
(i count all of those based on repairs needed on chips after hunt: decay -> nr of shoots -> total cost of using certain weapon. It is acurate to +-1 shoot per 2k peds so pretty accurate)

I have too little data yet to be any sure but it is definetly not propotional to nr of shoots ;).

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Falagor said:
It seems that you colect lots of data so i will ask you ;).

What is your break rate on enhancers related to peds cycled instead of nr of shoots?

I have just but a little sample so far but it seems that result is something around 1 enh break per 800-1200peds per slot (so using 5 slot filled weapoons would mean enh breaking every ~200peds cycled).

So far i am using two different weapons:
Lacerating Attack Nanochip XI teir 5 has break rate ~850peds per slot (fast weapon)
Arsonistic III TEN tier 2 (now its 3 recently) has break rate ~1050peds per slot (very slow weapon)

cost in my case is: TT decay + TT implant + SME used
(i count all of those based on repairs needed on chips after hunt: decay -> nr of shoots -> total cost of using certain weapon. It is acurate to +-1 shoot per 2k peds so pretty accurate)

I have too little data yet to be any sure but it is definetly not propotional to nr of shoots ;).

Falagor
:bandit:
Click to expand...

Well the problem is that raises the same questions: do amps (and the amp output) count?

In the case of the imk2, it's 15.255 pecs/shot unamped, for 149.6 PEDs/break/slot ((.15255*416850)/425)
and amped it's 19.565 pecs/shot, or 191.9 PEDs/break/slot

Attacks is 60. These numbers don't seem to be forming much of a pattern. Maybe with dps instead of attacks they would.
 
Doer said:
(...)
149.6 PEDs/break/slot ((.15255*416850)/425)
(...)
191.9 PEDs/break/slot
(...)
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Are you sure its "per slot"? I mean if you are using i.e. 5 enhancer slots then you should multiply those values x5. Unless you already include this in "425" broken enh value then this calc does not include this (it seems obvoius that using more slots will result with proportional higher break rate so its best to scale ths to enhancer brekaing per slot).

It would be really wierd to have such huge dfference compared to my results.

And to answer question about amps - i really do not know ;). But it would be great to test many different weapon setups long term and get results with break rate per slot per peds cycled.
And there are more questions appearing: does wearing eart shock trooper (or using other buffs) increase break rate too - obviously it significantly increases effectivens and eco of setup.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
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Falagor said:
Are you sure its "per slot"? I mean if you are using i.e. 5 enhancer slots then you should multiply those values x5. Unless you already include this in "425" broken enh value then this calc does not include this (it seems obvoius that using more slots will result with proportional higher break rate so its best to scale ths to enhancer brekaing per slot).

It would be really wierd to have such huge dfference compared to my results.

Falagor
:bandit:
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imk2 has always been enhancer eater beast :)
 
Piotr said:
imk2 has always been enhancer eater beast :)
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If there are such huge diffeences then i guess everyone should test their own setup and decide if its worth using them or no ;).
I.e. i came to conclusion that equiping accuracy enhancers in my case with earh shock increases my dps +5.75% and my eco +4.50% (counting markup of enhancers at 300%) so pretty decent. Ofc dmg enhancers will boost greatly my dps but reduce my eco a little.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
calemus said:
10/10 is a chance of 1
if i devide the chances into 20/20
it is still just a chance of 1

so, why is there even such a thing as a crit enhancer if it never makes any differance?
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Edit: didnt see this was a old post
 
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Falagor said:
If there are such huge diffeences then i guess everyone should test their own setup and decide if its worth using them or no ;).
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Of course. That's the message i convey with my analysis in this thread. Everyone should track their own break rate and determine if it helps their eco or not.

Unfortunately, almost no one has reported their results.


For the majority of the time i was only running accu 1 enhancers, and these statistics are exclusively for those. So, yes, it is per output per slot.
 
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