Developer-Notes--2

So, it's possible in EU to win by returns over TT?

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Okay, those dev. notes really pissed me off.

If I am right - I will hit five-digit in this month.
If "notes" - it will not happen.
 
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I knew it! No "personal" loot pools. It would be a horrendous amount of resources used up for that...

far simpler is: kill mob---> enter all petinent info into loot equation-----> out pops loot according to equation.

No muss, no fuss...no immense record keeping needed.
 
(it is not completely random).

That's the point: not COMPLETELY.
For example:

Roulette (especially russian roulette ;)) is 100% random (not talking about mechanical manipulations). THis is pure gamling, you cannot influence the ball in any way by placing your bets.

In EU the ball might fall on your field or not, but you can heavily influence the price for your bets.
 
Like I have said in another thread and many others... Personal Loot Pools do not exist. Otherwise you would see me hitting ATH's all the time due to the amount I have deposited into this game :)

It is all dynamic. Now the Developer Notes just prove it ;)

~Danimal
 
I have been so convinced that Personal Loot Pools do exist it is almost like learning that black is in fact white or 2 + 2 = 5.

My entire, completely inefficient, hunting tactics will now have to be reviewed.

I will struggle now for some considerable time going over the events I saw as 'evidence' that supported Personal Loot Pools in an effort to see them as, I guess, just random hofs or poor loots.

Great that these type of insights into the Loot System are now being offered though.

Agreed, however I continue to wonder this response after many years of silence and alleged dynanics in the pool !
 
MindArk's statement in English:

In theory there isn't personal loot pools, but in practise even we don't know about loot dynamics.
 
Woot, best MA statement ever!

I have spare hats if anyone needs one.



Did they say that?



I didn't read that bit in the notes either.

I just read only one - that whole my time, doing in a year 300 fucking thousand drops on PLANET, I was rely on misconception?

Yeah, right!
 
ok, I like these notes. I always believed in the ECO part :)

On the personal loot pool matter, I agree ... it doesn't exist ... but there is a nuance. If you loose big, you will get compensated. I don't know how you developers want to call it, but in the short run a loss will be compensated.

What I read is that in the long run, it will not be compensated.

I think you should explain a bit more on this, because very hunt with high losses ends with either globals or hofs to compensate. Even more, if you loose a lot, it is sometimes because the system wants to compensate you with a higher TT gun (couple hundred ped), which it cannot give if you didn't loose a lot of ped upfront. Am I wrong here too ?
 
I just read only one - that whole my time, doing in a year 300 fucking thousand drops on PLANET, I was rely on misconception?

Yeah, right!

When I first read the notes, I thought myself: "Not sure if serious..."

The notes stating that it's just pure accident that you lose big before getting compensated is just BS. "Ahhhhh... the economy"
 
MindArk's statement in English:

In theory there isn't personal loot pools, but in practise even we don't know about loot

...random VS pool

I suspect that is a partial explanatory.

I think Dev notes have been instigated to dispell former theories and instill new appoaches in belief !

What I dont understand :
Are these statments linked in prepartion for the new mission system due in August?

Is method of play under change ....possibly yes but to what extent and how?

What will be the wider impact of this in a meaningful sense for induviduals.
 
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ok, I like these notes. I always believed in the ECO part :)

On the personal loot pool matter, I agree ... it doesn't exist ... but there is a nuance. If you loose big, you will get compensated. I don't know how you developers want to call it, but in the short run a loss will be compensated.

What I read is that in the long run, it will not be compensated.

I think you should explain a bit more on this, because very hunt with high losses ends with either globals or hofs to compensate. Even more, if you loose a lot, it is sometimes because the system wants to compensate you with a higher TT gun (couple hundred ped), which it cannot give if you didn't loose a lot of ped upfront. Am I wrong here too ?

This has been my observation.... and that's why i was not that very unhappy with no looter!
 
I believe that the people who thought there were personal loot pools willb be affectedthe most...

:silly2:
 
Well, actually it's a good news, if it was totally 100% controlled cycle (personal loot pool) it would go a bit too far, too safe... too boring. And the loot algorithms definitely take into account your input (decay) when they calculate the output (after throwing in some randomness), i can't read anywhere that this connexion magically disappeared...

It's all "dynamic", it always was... After this statement guess what?
Still dynamic! :D
 
These statements align with my own conclusions based on observation of the Entropia Universe. I love being right :). I'm a diplomatic guy so I've refrained from being too vocal in my opposition of other's views, but seriously though, I found it hard to believe that objective evaluation of the available data could lead anyone to believe in the personal lootpool theory.

Smilgs has raised a good point though, there is nothing in here which proves that dpp matters. What does matter is hit ability and/or damage interval. I'm going to post some data soon which supports this, but anyone who has been following my log can see that my average returns have improved by more than 20% since switching to maxed weapons.

To determine if dpp really does matter would require much more testing using two maxed weapons with vastly different eco. I might do something like this at some point. Personally I think it does matter, because I believe loot is a function of the damage inflicted, not the cost of kill, but there is not enough information to prove this at the moment.
 
hmmm...some sort of weird, delayed, double post....
 
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Again, "avatar skills and efficiency on the tools used do indeed matter a great deal"<>dmg/pec
As well as eco<>dmg/pec

I think many are misunderstanding the "no personal loot pool" statement, and no wonder. It is a well known fact that if you have returns around 30% to 70% doing proper hunting/mining (e.g. not shooting in air or smth), they will compensated to the 88% or whatever. I have seen that happen too often and I can even prove it doing some overamp shooting or beacons. In fact, do beacons all day long, be unlucky about it. Almost a guarantee for a hof next run(s).
Also, never had below 88% return by tt in a longer period hunting. Imho, it is (or was to be sure) not possible provided you are closely to maxed with the gun.
My opinion, what the "no personal lootpool" means something as follows (though clarification would be nice).
  1. No avatar is luckier than the rest on purpose
  2. ATHs are random, losses don't mean you get one
 
Very interesting! I think is already to much info in one note... all this years in the dark :(

The sad part is that I can barely keep myself apart from this opinion:
It should be noted that there is nothing in the EULA that says MA will not blatantly lie to us regarding the operation of the loot system. :wise:

Edit: That being said, I have noticed a big change in the loot system recently, so perhaps they have reimplemented the old eco system, and are just conveniently ignoring the fact that it ever disappeared :D

If I were MA I would not brag about the idea of no personal loot pools, a lot of people had the faith that sometime "the system" will somehow give them something back... right now they actually told us to spend less, no need to force the system to give something back because your spending is not recorded, everyone is equal, you have the same chance to loot big as a 1 day newcomer.
If this is right or wrong time will tell(or we can look back and see how well it worked in the last years).
 
Let's continue this shit.

If there is no personal lootpool, why I started to lose, lose and lose after my azz ATH + narc tower?

I didn't changed my way of mining, my "efficiency" was the same.

Cause some of us have been !!!!! for years to pay for it. ;)
You're welcome! :silly2:
 
Cause some of us have been !!!!! for years to pay for it. ;)
You're welcome! :silly2:

Sorry, those "some of us have been" didn't done even 1% of my drops. Even for years.
 
Has anyone tried wasting 5k ped by standing in one spot and dropping amped bombs? After that walk a mile & drop again to see if ya hof? That would prove loot pools.


Anyway, I'm very disappointed in reading what MA wrote... It's like saying ''You can never win because your losses are permanent and are not ''stored'' anywhere''.
I don't really want to agree with this, since I can predict when I'll global after a bad run.. Or after I get ton's of NRF's, I'll get at least a XII find.


But this just made me think about selling out while I can, otherwise I'll just lose all my PED
 
I think you would be subject to the following, and I would say it's fair and no it would prove idiotic compensation. Sounds quite "inefficent" :D
While at it, try shooting some K in air and see if that gets you a hof. Again, I think you shouldn't, but feel free to try.
MA said:
claiming that the “system” will eventually provide a sort of compensation to avatars who have been operating in an inefficient manner. Such theories are very much misguided
Has anyone tried wasting 5k ped by standing in one spot and dropping amped bombs? After that walk a mile & drop again to see if ya hof? That would prove loot pools.
 
Has anyone tried wasting 5k ped by standing in one spot and dropping amped bombs? After that walk a mile & drop again to see if ya hof? That would prove loot pools.

That's the nice case, when stupidity not compensated.
 
Has anyone tried wasting 5k ped by standing in one spot and dropping amped bombs? After that walk a mile & drop again to see if ya hof? That would prove loot pools.

Someone made this a few months ago. I don't know the number of PEDs he dropped (no idea where this posted in PCF). But it was enouigh that a global should have happen.... But even this guy could have been lucky, you need to repeat this 1000 times before you can be sure.

This thread shows: some players prefer to believe, that MA is a liar than to change their gaming.

If someone would really learn about loot theories, they could check all discussions in this forum:
If (player believes in loot pool) THEN (player never was a hired programmer).
You should read this as
People who know how programs and randomness works, do not believe in a personal loot pool (because of several reasons).

That also is no proof of anything... but I personally think, they have a better knowledge about this than non-programmers.

But it seems, this is all more something like a religion, not something about statistical possibilities.
 
Depends on definition of lootpool. Around 88% tt minimum return is easy to fix, and it is enforced I'm sure about hunting anyway.
Imho the only thing MA wanted to say is for those who have lost 100s of Ks of peds in "inefficient hunting" to stop dreaming they will get it back yea Joker, myself, EMW. YOU! :D
People who know how programs and randomness works, do not believe in a personal loot pool
 
It's just as I've said all along.
Each avatar, mob, and location has a sine wave over time.
The avatar also has modifiers for attributes -> skill,weapon,armor,....

At any given place,time,location,and mob a % of current pool can be calculated.
The only random value I believe is damage but that could also be calculated too.

James
 
Hi,

Swedish and American gambling commissions have already said long ago this is not gambling.
I'm sure you're able to provide a link supporting this guess?

If I remember correctly, a reason given by the Swedish were that you can influence your return rates (it is not completely random).
You're wrong, all they said was that they couldn't test it sufficiently, voted for "in
dubio pro reo", and set it aside until more evidence would come in. Read here, and here.

Gaming Board has not had the opportunity to play and explore all parts. It is possible that there are parts of the game that would be classified as a lottery if they detected. Would Lotteriinspektionen get several tips suggesting that the examination can be resumed

Ok, did my job regarding the Swedish authorities. Now it's your turn. Where was officially proclaimed that EU isn't a kind of gambling? Link?

As far as I see EU was below the radar, due to tiny numbers of participants. This might be a reason why MA is this hesitant to promote the game in an approbate manner - they just shy the light.

Now, as we have been officially told there's nothing like the ominous "personal loot pools" the situation might get worse. How to justify a claim "not gambling" now?

This is, IMHO, a crucial time for MA. Admitting this was an evil mistake, opening the gates for all kinds of investigation.

Really hope that they act wisely and thoughtful, only this time!

Have fun!


Have a good time!
 
I've always wondered what do they actually mean if they say "dynamic". Have a feeling it refers to the basic principle of the whole system, at the same time not revealing too much about it... ;)

dy·nam·ic
(adj. also dy·nam·i·cal)
    • Of or relating to energy or to objects in motion.
    • Of or relating to the study of dynamics.
  1. Characterized by continuous change, activity, or progress: a dynamic market.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language

This post makes it a bit clearer for me (not necessarily for anyone else! lol). I would describe it as an axis of 2 opposites, say: determined result <-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-> random result, and the "dynamic" is a position somewhere in-between the opposites. Or rather, there's a collection of dimensions, and the point of "dynamic" sitting in the middle of all this... if u get my drift.
 
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