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Developer-Notes--2

Smoerble said:
This thread shows: some players prefer to believe, that MA is a liar than to change their gaming.
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And you think they are just a non-profitable company, which is always willing to see things from players' point of view? Please, come back to the reality.
 
girtsn said:
Again, "avatar skills and efficiency on the tools used do indeed matter a great deal"<>dmg/pec
As well as eco<>dmg/pec

I think many are misunderstanding the "no personal loot pool" statement, and no wonder. It is a well known fact that if you have returns around 30% to 70% doing proper hunting/mining (e.g. not shooting in air or smth), they will compensated to the 88% or whatever. I have seen that happen too often and I can even prove it doing some overamp shooting or beacons. In fact, do beacons all day long, be unlucky about it. Almost a guarantee for a hof next run(s).
Also, never had below 88% return by tt in a longer period hunting. Imho, it is (or was to be sure) not possible provided you are closely to maxed with the gun.
My opinion, what the "no personal lootpool" means something as follows (though clarification would be nice).
  1. No avatar is luckier than the rest on purpose
  2. ATHs are random, losses don't mean you get one
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If you really believe this, since I know you are maxed on blp rifle, hunt with a Swine Deluxe for a month and publish the results. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'd be curious to see the results.
 
People see patterns where none exist. MA just stated what many already know. It's a casino. It's not your personal slot machine sitting in your basement
 
Hi,

once again, and I'm feeling bad saying it again:

This thread doesn't have to be in PFC!
It's of interest to all EU participants, and as such should be in EF or EP.

Having such a thread in PCF only rises suspects. This isn't really necessary.

Move it, please!

Thx, have fun!
 
Fifth said:
I've always wondered what do they actually mean if they say "dynamic". Have a feeling it refers to the basic principle of the whole system, at the same time not revealing too much about it... ;)

....
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I've always thought it referred to EU being a dynamical system.

Wikipedia said:
..A dynamical system is a concept in mathematics where a fixed rule describes the time dependence of a point in a geometrical space. Examples include the mathematical models that describe the swinging of a clock pendulum, the flow of water in a pipe, and the number of fish each springtime in a lake.

At any given time a dynamical system has a state given by a set of real numbers (a vector) that can be represented by a point in an appropriate state space (a geometrical manifold). Small changes in the state of the system create small changes in the numbers. The evolution rule of the dynamical system is a fixed rule that describes what future states follow from the current state. The rule is deterministic; in other words, for a given time interval only one future state follows from the current state...
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The maths tends to make my head spin, but the topic does make for very interesting reading :)
 
Xandra said:
Hi,

once again, and I'm feeling bad saying it again:

This thread doesn't have to be in PFC!
It's of interest to all EU participants, and as such should be in EF or EP.

Having such a thread in PCF only rises suspects. This isn't really necessary.

Move it, please!

Thx, have fun!
Click to expand...

It is on EF too.
Not sure if you realise but Bertha Bot is infact a bot. 711's RSS Feed bot if I am not mistaken.
So it wasn't posted by anyone but rather posted by an automated system.
 
Well, I tried some of this in the argonaut event. M2100 + e-amp15 combination, dmg/pec 0.5 or so. TT return was very close to 90%.
I wish somebody did a test with that setup rather than with swine deluxe - since that dmg/pec is really meaningful (0.5 vs 1.9). Won't do it myself since it's a waste of time I can tier my doa. The advantage, it is maxed for a lot more people and the test costs are less because of less dmg/sec.
Xen said:
If you really believe this, since I know you are maxed on blp rifle, hunt with a Swine Deluxe for a month and publish the results. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'd be curious to see the results.
Click to expand...
 
Oleg said:
Developer Notes #3

Legion had it right all along!
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I will not wonder, by the way. And R4tt3x was his prophet.

Developer Notes #3

Effective Spirals
 
I find interesting that this Developer notes comes after VUs in which we do not get any information what and why was changed in EU.
Is there system redesign going on or just 10 year delay in explaining rules of game??

This said, I havbe never believed in personal loot pool, as it would mean that I should get few big ubers or nice ATH after my all losses (lost on hunting, using maxed weapons).
Ok I lied, I did believed in it for a short 'blissful ignorance' moment in my EU life ;)


Smoerble said:
Nighthawk said:
Swedish and American gambling commissions have already said long ago this is not gambling.

If I remember correctly, a reason given by the Swedish were that you can influence your return rates (it is not completely random).
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That's the point: not COMPLETELY.
For example:

Roulette (especially russian roulette ;)) is 100% random (not talking about mechanical manipulations). THis is pure gamling, you cannot influence the ball in any way by placing your bets.

In EU the ball might fall on your field or not, but you can heavily influence the price for your bets.
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In roulette you can't influence ball, but you can influence your return rates!
Bet all the times at red and black same amounts, or odds and evens. you gonna lose only when ball lands on zero(s). There you go, almost break even ;)
But having ability to influence return rates is not making roulette non gambling. Is this so far from EU?
 
Developer Notes #4

All Ya money belong to us!
 
Pyhä Antero said:
And you think they are just a non-profitable company, which is always willing to see things from players' point of view? Please, come back to the reality.
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I don't understand what you are saying?
They tell you, that loot pool does not exist. That's a statement, not related to a player view? For them, it would be way better to claim "drop in as much as you want, your personal loot pool will fix it"...


... don't get your point?
 
I'm hesitating between:
- being happy to see my convictions being confirmed.
- being sad that MA officially breaks all the "90% return whatever you do" or "eco doesn't matter" theories which were resulting in better loot for eco people.
 
Xandra said:
Hi,

once again, and I'm feeling bad saying it again:

This thread doesn't have to be in PFC!
It's of interest to all EU participants, and as such should be in EF or EP.

Having such a thread in PCF only rises suspects. This isn't really necessary.

Move it, please!

Thx, have fun!
Click to expand...

As you can see by the "Originally Posted Here" link in the opening post, this information was posted by MindArk on the Entropia Universe Buzz page, and made available for all community sites to pick up via RSS feed, so I'm not sure what you are on about.

Bertha Bot periodically checks the RSS feeds on the EntropiaUniverse.com and PlanetCalypso.com official websites, and automatically creates a thread for each new announcement and news article found there. A link to the original source is included in the opening post of each such thread.

Bertha Bot said:
Originally Posted Here
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Hi folks,

before I continue this fun read I just have to say this:

Please, oh pretty please address the following in Developer-Notes-3:
1, Following Perception, the way to glory!
2, Entropia Universe == Gambling!

That much about misconceptions ;) I wanna see Legion state why the developers are just plain wrong!

I just love it, that much from Mr. Obvious...


Cheers,

Perry
 
dr3w said:
I just read only one - that whole my time, doing in a year 300 fucking thousand drops on PLANET, I was rely on misconception?

Yeah, right!
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Apparently so. It also means you were confusing method and skills with pure blind luck.
 
Anyone remember the film Scanners (1981) I feel like the guy whose head exploded.

:launcher:

I wont post a youtube link in case anyone is eating their dinner.


Cant wait for Developer Note #3
 
I believe MA changed back the system. I`ve noticed a change at some point.

Just wipe clean personal loot pools to fill some holes in the sinking ship. MF Global anyone?

On a different note, MA could very well tell a lie(wouldn`t be the first time)? Why you ask? Well... someone has to deposit to buy all those uber eco guns and pump money into the system. Who would buy all the mod faps, mod merc and so on if eco efficiency wouldn`t matter.
 
Artrat said:
[...]
Smilgs has raised a good point though, there is nothing in here which proves that dpp matters. What does matter is hit ability and/or damage interval. I'm going to post some data soon which supports this, but anyone who has been following my log can see that my average returns have improved by more than 20% since switching to maxed weapons.

To determine if dpp really does matter would require much more testing using two maxed weapons with vastly different eco. I might do something like this at some point. Personally I think it does matter, because I believe loot is a function of the damage inflicted, not the cost of kill, but there is not enough information to prove this at the moment.
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Isn't this the same?
Using non maxed weapons is effectively decreasing dpp.
Correct me if I'm wrong...
 
Mikass said:
I believe MA changed back the system. I`ve noticed a change at some point.

Just wipe clean personal loot pools to fill some holes in the sinking ship. MF Global anyone?

On a different note, MA could very well tell a lie(wouldn`t be the first time)? Why you ask? Well... someone has to deposit to buy all those uber eco guns and pump money into the system. Who would buy all the mod faps, mod merc and so on if eco efficiency wouldn`t matter.
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i tend to agree with this:)


after giving a long streak of poor loot (this time it was not me though... I didnt' hunt much :) )... MA basically telling us:

dont' whine, wont' work...

rather do more decay to skill up... and be more efficient... and be ready to spend more on high MU UL item
 
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Terminator said:
I'm hesitating between:
- being happy to see my convictions being confirmed.
- being sad that MA officially breaks all the "90% return whatever you do" or "eco doesn't matter" theories which were resulting in better loot for eco people.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping this results in less frustrated people in the game, as their "90% payback" hasn't come yet and they continue trying to get it with their uneco tools and keep failing.

Something I hope they will cover in the next developer notes is armor and fap decay and these not being compensated via loot, so people will use better tools and more balanced armors more.
 
Terminator said:
- being sad that MA officially breaks all the "90% return whatever you do" or "eco doesn't matter" theories which were resulting in better loot for eco people.
Click to expand...
Don't be sad, because this thread clearly displays that zealots of one religion won't stop believing even after getting a kick in the butt from a God of another religion, so the lootpool will continue to flourish :cool:
 
Another sad part(sorry, I'll try,hard, to find a happy one):

Old players can't say anymore to their disciples:" Trust me! I know how it works!"
Now everyone that reads this dev posts is aware of game mechanics. :scratch2:
 
combo22 said:
Another sad part(sorry, I'll try,hard, to find a happy one):

Old players can't say anymore to their disciples:" Trust me! I know how it works!"
Now everyone that reads this dev posts is aware of game mechanics. :scratch2:
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Are they, this appears to shroud it more and be less explainable.
 
This is awesome...I'm loving it.

Shows the arrogance of some....they really believe they know more about the system than the dev's...:laugh:

I've seen it stated so many time that the "negative folks" wouldn't believe MA no matter what they told them...

And yet here I see it's the fanboi's and cheerleaders accusing them of lying...:laugh:

Please more Dev-Notes!!!:D
 
Bertha Bot said:
[h=3]Developer Notes #2[/h]

Personal Lootpools - Many of the theories which suggest - inaccurately - that efficiency is unimportant will often employ the concept of a “personal lootpool”, claiming that the “system” will eventually provide a sort of compensation to avatars who have been operating in an inefficient manner. Such theories are very much misguided. There is no such thing as a “personal lootpool” for individual avatars, and there is no system in place which tracks each avatar’s returns over time, or which provides compensation to individual avatars. As a result, long-term results in Entropia Universe are directly related to the choices made by each participant, and those who approach their chosen profession in an efficient manner will find more success than those who do not. Overall this is a very positive thing and an important part of the Entropia virtual universe concept, as it allows those participants who spend the time and effort to approach their activities within Entropia Universe in a smart way to improve their chances of becoming successful, just like in the real world.


Originally Posted Here
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Apparently a lot of people are too busy saying "I told you so" (we will make sure to pat your imaginary avatar on the back) to understand the gravity of a company releasing a statement like this. Or why they now finally attempting to clarify a misconception about loot theory that they let exist.

In business, the following statement is very common: Company X (a general contractor) has sub-contracted to a large group of sub-contractors. All the sub-contractors provide work for company X, who then receives the money from its clients and pays the sub-contractors. Then one day, company X sends out letters to all the sub-contractors saying "Well, we are sorry, due to our financial situation we are unable to compensate all of the sub-contractors for the work that you have done, so in an effort to settle with you and keep our company in business, we are offering to settle all outstanding unpaid work orders for 30% of the original amount"
In this example, the sub-contractors who are owed 1 million USD will lose 700k. But a sub-contractor owed 50K will only lose 35k. Sub-contrators must either accept the Company X's new rules, or Company X will be "forced to file Bankruptcy". Ok, end of that example.

Fast forward to todays post. Misconception about personal loot pools has stirred something up over in Sweden. When people keep depositing thinking our personal avatars are due for "big one" (whether it was a good decision or not is irrelevant), they were doing so under the assumption that they would get paid something back (just like the sub-contractors in the above example) This assumption was premised on a lack of clarity on MA's part and perhaps stupidity on our part. In an effort to cover their ass, and make sure they don't look like they were intentionally letting the Personal Loot Theory exist and propagate itself, they are now uniformly denying it. By making this statement, they are saying "No matter how much you lost, from now on, everyone has an equal chance in the future to get back X percentage of money you deposit, BUT, to all the people already down 20-50 or 100k USD, you are unfortunately not due anything" This is just like the letter in the above example. Any sub-contractor who did a lot of work for Company X, or any player who lost a LOT of money in this game, are all equally wiped away in either scenario.

The end result is, the sub-contractors in the above example were screwed, and Company X changed its business plan and was able to continue like nothing happened. The people who have deposited big into this game are screwed, and now MA can implement whatever new business plan or agenda it has.

I am NOT complaining...I made a choice to do business with MA, just like the sub-contractors chose to do business with Company X. But when I see company X make statements like that, I get worried, and when I see MA make a statement like this, and attempt to wipe the slate clean regarding people who have lost a LOT, I get worried too. There is a reason this statement was made, and trust me, it ain't cuz we were wondering, and they felt like clearing up our confused little minds. There is a BIGGER reason, be it legal, or personal, that motivated them and THAT is what makes me worry. Quite simply, it seems they want to WALK AWAY with any money that has already been lost to them and start on a new track with a new loot model. Those of us with personal avatars that LOST 40K or even 100K are as likely to get back 40k-100k as any equally skilled avatar who has only deposited 1k has a chance of making that same amount. (which is great from a marketing perspective: "you all have an exactly equal chance to get good stuff or make money")

Bottom line, there was two COMPLETELY different sides to loot theory that they allowed us to think existed, and now there is only one. And I can't help but feel that MA is trying to wipe the slate clean with people who have lost big. What made them do it?
 
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Well, maybe I didn't understand what was written, actually.

Maybe there is just about unmaxed gear, overkills, bad choice of armors and such stuff, and that is not compensated.

In case of mining - maybe there is about "overlapping" (BS, actually), dropping probes on same place, or something like that.

But even my short mining runs clearly showing "compensation" mechanism.
 
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