No pesonal loot pool

Since MindArk stated there is no personal loot pool many people tend to not believe this. Additional there are a lot of new misconceptions and flawed perception is in place so I guess I just have a shot at it and share my own flawed conception. The things I take into consideration are:

1. Return
2. Cycles
3. Randomness
4. Economy
5. Skills
6. Gambling

Return

We have many tests suggesting a somewhat fixed TT return of something between 88% and 95%. I also believe these numbers to be true since they seem to be in line with my personal loggings over a few months. Whereas many users seem to take this as a proof for a somewhat fixed personal loot pool I always take the example of a slots machine which has a fixed payout rate at let's say 97%. Even though it's possible to do a lot worse and also possible to hit the jackpot of many million dollars if you played long enough you'd reach exactly 97% return of your money. So in order to have most of the people have a ~90% TT return the global return rate needs to be set at 90% for all not for the individual. In my opinion and with my very little understanding of coding it's the easiest way taking the least of ressources to implement such a system.

Cycle

This is referring to a PED cycle. To achieve this TT return I was talking about we need to look at the PED cycles. If I cycle 10 000 PED I should get 9 000 PED back in return, assuming the 90% rate. In order to have a valid perception different things have to be considered. First of all this is TT only. No markup in weapons, no markup in guns and no markup on loot. Also we need to ensure we have 1 full cycle that means no looted ammo is consumed. If we also use the looted cells we enlarge the cycle. Almost the same happens if we do not shoot all cells we brought and take them as loot. 10 PED not shot are 10 PED return instead of the 9 PED we should have got back a great way to invalid the cycled as a test subject.
Now we also do have to know about recycling i.e. taking the 90% return and start a new run. There are still some people left who think if they deposit 10k PED they should have 9k PED right now no matter how much they hunted. If you go out with 10k PED come back with 9k and go out again then the 9k PED equal 100% for the new cycle and the expected return is 8100 PED.
This doesn't mean you in fact will have the return I stated. Maybe the sample is too small maybe the 90% I am assuming ain't right or perhaps you are playing above your level. I don't know and can only assume but that's the basics here I think.

Randomness

Many peoples already stated the basics. If return is somewhat random but fixed at 90% meaning the payouts leading to the 90% for the global playerbase is random we still tend to see patterns. Patterns where they ain't. Many theories are based on the thought 'there has to be something' be it loot returns, be it skill gains they take anything to establish a theory.

Economy

One of the most discussed points lately. The player base is always thinking about dmg/pec and I do not know if this has to do something with the return rate or not. I for one think more of fap, armor, evade level and overkill since these are the choices having a significant amount of your input. On drones I always had the feeling I get more return then I should and blaming this on the people hunting more than uneco at Jason's Centre. Still don't know if this holds true or not all I can do is getting the cheapest armor fap combination there is, not hunting mobs above my level which take too much time to kill or too much fapping using the best gun I can considering Markup, dmg/pec and dmg/sec and of course using no enhancers which cost me more.

Skills

Easy call. Weapons/Tools should be maxed, evade/doge level as high as possible. All there is to know never been any other way so no need to discuss about it more than necessary.

Gambling

Is EU gambling now? You decide. All depending on the way you are approaching. If you are going to craft low MU high TT items on condition putting in more MU than you will get out you are clearly gambling for the big one. I can't see anyone winning this way. Same goes for hunting above your level and using high markup mining amps your finds won't ever cover. But even if you do everything right it does not mean profiting or breaking even. 90% return is also indicating 10% loss before markup. Try to put in as less MU as possible and try to get out as much as you can. Always been the trick always will no secret here.

I believe that the idea of personal loot pools made a LOT OF people to keep playing.. even after heavy losses they just kept playing in a hope for a HOF.

if MA kept their mouths shut, some ppl wouldn't quitright now

Leaving them more and more frustrated. The long term losses should be seen as being inefficient, not something that is guaranteed to be paid back. I think the statement from MA was a good thing for the ones living in that alternate reality.
Instead of not leaving, they are spreading anger and frustration around the community. Is it better?

Satans said:

I believe that the idea of personal loot pools made a LOT OF people to keep playing.. even after heavy losses they just kept playing in a hope for a HOF.
if MA kept their mouths shut, some ppl wouldn't quitright now

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Satans said:

I believe that the idea of personal loot pools made a LOT OF people to keep playing.. even after heavy losses they just kept playing in a hope for a HOF.

if MA kept their mouths shut, some ppl wouldn't quitright now

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Stupid people do stupid things. MA offered a chance to learn something, to advance in the game and don't repeat your mistakes. It's like a tiny piece of information which allows you to adjust a bit more. An opportunity not a reason to quit imho. But what to do when the ego is the biggest part of one person.

Overall good summary. About that slot machine, it's important to note - if the Joe we talk about is the only user of the slotmachine, then 97% applies. If someone won a jackpot on it already (say 3%), the return of Joe will be worse. And the other thing, slotmachine result doesn't have markup (ones I have seen anyway).
So this 90% is somewhat personal, doesn't look like what MA means with "personal loot pool"

Az Bloodz said:

We have many tests suggesting a somewhat fixed TT return of something between 88% and 95%. I also believe these numbers to be true since they seem to be in line with my personal loggings over a few months. Whereas many users seem to take this as a proof for a somewhat fixed personal loot pool I always take the example of a slots machine which has a fixed payout rate at let's say 97%. Even though it's possible to do a lot worse and also possible to hit the jackpot of many million dollars if you played long enough you'd reach exactly 97% return of your money. So in order to have most of the people have a ~90% TT return the global return rate needs to be set at 90% for all not for the individual. In my opinion and with my very little understanding of coding it's the easiest way taking the least of ressources to implement such a system.

Click to expand...

girtsn said:

Overall good summary. About that slot machine, it's important to note - if the Joe we talk about is the only user of the slotmachine, then 97% applies. If someone won a jackpot on it already (say 3%), the return of Joe will be worse. And the other thing, slotmachine result doesn't have markup (ones I have seen anyway).
So this 90% is somewhat personal, doesn't look like what MA means with "personal loot pool"

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Actually chances for every try should be the same no matter what happened before. So it's possible to hit the jack pot 3 times in a row (theoretically) even though it is sooo unlikely it won't happen.

girtsn said:

Overall good summary. About that slot machine, it's important to note - if the Joe we talk about is the only user of the slotmachine, then 97% applies. If someone won a jackpot on it already (say 3%), the return of Joe will be worse. And the other thing, slotmachine result doesn't have markup (ones I have seen anyway).
So this 90% is somewhat personal, doesn't look like what MA means with "personal loot pool"

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Actually no. Electronic slot machines don't usually have pots or limits like mechanical ones (where the pot is the current accumulated pot). Every roll is the same game.

Right, I was thinking of an individual slot machine with a lifespan rather than a network of them. Outdated I guess.
http://www.slotsgeek.com/slots/payout-percentage/

mrproper said:

Actually no. Electronic slot machines don't usually have pots or limits like mechanical ones (where the pot is the current accumulated pot). Every roll is the same game.

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So, they have no software to track a players return, nor are there personal lootpools...

So how do they know they can offer 90% return.........................

Art Jennifer said:

So, they have no software to track a players return, nor are there personal lootpools...

So how do they know they can offer 90% return.........................

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The magic of mathematics. Need I continue?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_jackpot

Break-even pointIn some games such as video poker, it is possible to compute an optimal playing strategy based on the frequency for each payoff versus the odds of hitting that payoff. Since the jackpot of a progressive video poker game is constantly growing, it eventually can reach a break-even point where the machine becomes a positive expectation bet for the player.

When the progressive jackpot is less than the break-even point, there is a negative expected value (house edge) for all players.

In the long run, with optimal strategy, a video poker player can make a profit, although the "long run" is generally longer than most people think. (Several tens of thousands of plays.)

It is worthwhile to note that a break-even point cannot be easily calculated on a slot machine game, because the payback percentage for the game is normally unknown to the player. The break-even point in video poker can be calculated because the payback percentage for the game is a function of the paybacks and odds of the poker hands, which is based on a standard 52 card deck. The return of a slot machine is based on the published paytable, but also on the normally unpublished reels. For a five reel slot machine, the player would need to know each symbol on each of the slot machine's five reels, in order to calculate the odds. For a three reel slot, the reels are normally weighted, and this would not be possible. However, in some circumstances the manufacturer may publish the payout of their machines.

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The 'odds' in eu are based on the mobs, resources, etc... balancing manager related stuff... not on odds of poker hand since we are not playing poker here... but it is a game that is somewhat similar... just with different symbols, etc.

Advantage players who only play when the progressive jackpot provides them with a positive expectation situation still generate revenue for the casino. This is a unique situation where the player has an advantage over the house, yet the casino is still making a profit from the player. This situation occurs because the bulk of the progressive jackpot has been bought and paid for by the other players' contributions to the jackpot.

Savvy gamblers sometimes organize teams of players to play machines where the progressive jackpots generate a positive expectation situation. Such teams often displace ordinary players, making the machines unavailable just when they are at their most interesting. Team members will often have cell phones and work in shifts, calling another teammate to replace them when they're ready for a break. Some casinos have a policy of "no team play", and will eject players suspected of playing in such teams.

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High hit ability/skills = advantage player. Luckily MA does allow 'team play' on many different levels in game... some of which are against the eula/tos, but they allow it anyways, and others that are perfectly legal and legit. Example of legit 'team play' would be event system, etc.

Not sure what to make of the statement, all i know is my records and others i compared with show a very close return % over time. Mathematical odds, personal loot pool, mr loot monkey pressing a button.... no idea, but i guess just go with what you feel is right from your data/records or tossing the bones etc..

Interesting....

So if no spend based payback then how is it not gambling, guess skill based could be argued/economy of play ?

Why would so many people end up at same return % ?


Interesting statement, i look forward to the dissection but can only go by records i have .


grabs popcorn

mrproper said:

The magic of mathematics. Need I continue?

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There is no magic here. And they offer no guarantee of a steady return.