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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperstrike View Post
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    I have seen many changes in the loot system from VU 5 and up.
    There were no changes to the loot system, according to MA...


  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
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    There were no changes to the loot system, according to MA...

    Hehehe Muhahaha Yep so I have heard that one too
    Except when they do every ruleset in the balancing engine

  3. #53
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    Thumbs Up Now that people have a clearer picture, do we see the psychology in it all. Protecting the future of Entropia!

    As proposed, changes to foundation of Entropia may be needed in the near future to combat the likes of new upstarts like Diablo 3 in which you can make good real life money at even the low levels.

    I myself have sold 4 items there in 20 hours play as a newbie and have achieved 230 USD so far profit.

    The proposed loot system changes in the OP are not static changes, it is only a simple example of what can be done to adjust to meet the demand of the mindset(s) of the player(s) involved in Entropia Universe.

    In other words, they were just a sample - Be it a good or bad one, doesn't matter - It is the concept that was important

    Setting some, stablizing factors, will ensure that people are well prepared and grounded with their entry and continued adventure in the Entropia Universe.

    RCE is the underlaying concept of Entropia Universe, the loot system is the first starting point to making the adjustments needed to meet all (85%+) individuals psychological needs for continued lure and attachment to this game.

    Enjoy, and if your not sure what I am talking about, please re-read my posts in this thread, including the OP and catch posts.

  4. #54
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    Question Bump.

    Hi,

    i see no further discussion on this topic ?

    What are peoples thoughts and feelings to combating the leaving participants of higher level and upstarts such as Diablo 3 RCE ?

    Regards,
    Viper

  5. #55
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    Rough around the edges, however I do wish the best long term. I am here to stay as a retiree

    Hi All,

    I do note that i am rough around the edges, most would have previously known myself as Fire Sparkz Lavawalker - 2.5 years almost 3 of play with 280k skills before chipping out for work.

    Retired toon now. Work would not let me continue on with Lavawalker.

    Yes I was involved with a team of 5 others in investigating Entropia for filtering purposes - Illegal casino or not.

    EU passed as a result of a number of partcipants input into the final conclusion, including DD and DS who were involved in great detail. Sorry i wish not to give further details on who DS and DD are, most of you know who I am speaking of.

    Least to say i am now retired (due to an unfortunate accident at work) and this is a game I will play and pay for long term having almost deposited $ 1600 usd since returning a week and a bit ago.

    I would like to invite intelligent and constructive conversation to be added to this thread in an attempt to distingush and eliminate future possible risks to Entropia. Leaving participants & upstarts such as Diablo 3 with others to enter the scene in the near future.

    If you feel like you have anything of value to add to this conversation, please do. I know we already have the attention of Kim and Jan on this one

    Cheers,

    Viper / Andy
    Last edited by Viperstrike; 08-16-2012 at 08:32. Reason: 280k skills. Updated.

  6. #56
    Prowler Crone's Avatar
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    If you insist Crone likes the economical stuff a lot.

    The investor would like to see cash. Who cares about profit if you get cash? So the most important is to generate cash. The investor would like to see around 10-15% cash on his investment as minimum. How large is this investment? This investment will be low. Why? Because MA is not generating much profit, is she?

    This should be your calculation:

    +deposits
    +advertising INCOME
    +interest
    =cash in

    -payroll
    -other personell costs
    -rent (office)
    -servers(maintenance/rent)
    -marketing
    -office costs
    -other

    =operational cash out

    +cash in
    -operational cash out
    =operational cashflow

    -INTEREST OUT TO INVESTORS(preferable to some nice place like Luxembourgh or Guernsey)
    -exceptional cash out
    -taxes (also see interest, this should be close to zero)
    =financial cash out

    +operational cashflow
    -financial cash out
    =net cashflow (security for the investors, the higher the better)

    Fill in this list from bottom to top, yes, Crone has a bit of an excentric way of finances, and you know what your revenue has to be. Since Jan is watching the thread, he could maybe give you a better idea of how their revenue is build. Number of depositing players, average size of deposits, seasonal patterns, 80-20 rule? (or something close maybe?), any other characteristics the new investor should know about the revenue?

    Wait... Crone doesn't see any loot in this story.

    Viperstrike, can you please explain Crone why you need 8 PEC or 16 PEC or even 100 PEC of every PED spent hunting argonauts to cover costs? The only thing you need to do is to control the amount of possible withdrawels and deposits. MA seems to have a very active way of controlling withdrawels. They have a 6 week(?) period to make the payments, which allows them to push withdrawels forward. Very nice. But that's not the only method. They also control loot. 100 PED in, less than 50 PED out not including decay mining on FOMA? (Are you reading this too Jan? Sorry little joke.) That's a very effective way of avoiding withdrawels.

    How much of every ATH is actually withdrawn? When do people withdraw, at loss or profit? How much do people withdraw on average, how often, who, seasonal, 80-20? Wow same questions as for the deposits.

    There's also another way, keeping people happy and give them something to do. But remember, WOW lost 10% of it's playerbase in a "couple of months"? There's different people in this game for different reasons. First: name them, second: describe them, third: please them.

    If you would ask Crone: the majority just wants their PED (investments) back

    Seriously, why appoint loot to something called "cover costs"? Your personell won't accept PED, neither will the landlord.
    Mai & Crone - Healers of Fortune
    click here for thread

    Mai & Crone - Mentors
    click here for thread

  7. #57
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    Hi Crone,

    Maybe MA can do better than 80%, I am not sure.

    ATM I am averaging about 71% return last roughly 4,000 ped runs (10 runs 400 ped each) in last 3 days.

    I know you like to see a lot of economical stuff, but example in OP was just an example.

    I was suggesting only that we start at the loot system as our first stop being that the underlaying concept is RCE.

    I am more looking for what kind of lures and attractions/addictions can be put in place to keep the player playing.

    Its a tough question though i feel strongly that the current rulesets set in the loot system ruleset engine are not right and fit for keeping people in game. They need to be somewhat simplified and through transparancy a level of knowledge has to be given to the player to allow them feel empowered that they are on the right track - wether they be or not doesn't really matter as long as they keep depositing and playing Entropia

    ^^ I know that sounds a bit sneaky, however this game does need to survive and pay the bills at the end of the day.

    Cheers,
    Viper

  8. #58
    Prowler Crone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperstrike View Post
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    Hi Crone,

    Maybe MA can do better than 80%, I am not sure.

    ATM I am averaging about 71% return last roughly 4,000 ped runs (10 runs 400 ped each) in last 3 days.
    Nice, well done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Viperstrike View Post
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    I am more looking for what kind of lures and attractions/addictions can be put in place to keep the player playing.

    Its a tough question though i feel strongly that the current rulesets set in the loot system ruleset engine are not right and fit for keeping people in game. They need to be somewhat simplified and through transparancy a level of knowledge has to be given to the player to allow them feel empowered that they are on the right track - wether they be or not doesn't really matter as long as they keep depositing and playing Entropia
    Keeping players interested is the game. Most of the people Crone met are gamblers or people "seeking" people, wether that is for status or for social contacts. Only a few are actually here to make a profit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viperstrike View Post
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    I was suggesting only that we start at the loot system as our first stop being that the underlaying concept is RCE.
    ...
    ^^ I know that sounds a bit sneaky, however this game does need to survive and pay the bills at the end of the day.
    These two are not depending on eachother. The bills are paid by the deposits made. Deposits are made when people are playing, and yes that is influenced by the "loot". Only thing Crone does not understand is why you calculate MA's part in this loot. They can't do anything with PEC. They need to let PED flow out of the system. Much like stock exchange when it's bad. But then it's a positive thing for MA. When PED is vanished players need to deposit. Personally, Crone thinks the current system is good. MA takes decay, players take ammo. (Crafters pay decay through refiners, usually the miners do, but that's calculated in the resource prices.)

    But player guaranteed loot sounds a bit strange. Here's the problem: Crone goes mining on Calypso and loses a lot. Then Crone takes his Quadwing and flies to Arkadia where Crone hits the jackpot. What will Crone do? Stick on Arkadia or go back to Calypso? Crone's jackpot was actually created by the loss on Calypso. Planet Partners (will or atleast should) demand loot being influenced by geography and not by personal spendings.

    Then there's this: Crone will mine at high mark up ores knowing he will get 80% anyways (now he gets about 60%, result: loss, mostly, high profit when lucky). Everyone would, that would mean mark up will level out over all ores to about the same level. The return will be constant. That's no fun. How can Crone, or atleast have the impression, influence his returns?
    Mai & Crone - Healers of Fortune
    click here for thread

    Mai & Crone - Mentors
    click here for thread

  9. #59
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    I like the idea that snable youngs and puny mobs could also global.. regularly. Would give new players new incentive to keep playing. I remember looting pretty good stuff from low level mobs in my days. Would be cool to see that returned.
    Last edited by Spawn; 08-15-2012 at 18:37.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperstrike View Post
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    I would like to invite intelligent and constructive conversation to be added to this thread
    It's pretty hard to have an intelligent and constructive conversation when you start insulting the people disagreeing with you, e.g. "Anyhoooooooo, I think this concept flew over a lot of peoples heads, some of you get it, some of you are just blind fanboys and gals and some just lack the willingness to use the potential between your ears.", and trying to strengthen your argument with irrelevant references like "Number crunching after 3 years of precise accurate logs for the Australian government agency I working for taught me one thing....".

    The way to win debates is with strong arguments, not insults and telling us who you were working for. Trust me, I've had 7 jobs, got 3 degrees, had 17 sexual partners, and I'm 6 foot, 3 inches tall... so I must know what I'm talking about.

    I still think the original thread post was a ridiculous suggestion. Essentially it's a fruit machine with a 20% payout. If I put a $1 coin in a fruit machine and it returns 80cents every time, and occasionally more, then all I am doing is playing a 20cent fruit machine that pretends its a $1 fruit machine. The return rate you suggest is significantly worse than all long-term logs with sensible play that I've seen published here.

    Your assumption that EU's problem is the loot is problematic too. Sure it is what is whined about the most. But go onto any skill-gaming or poker site and you'll see similar whining. It's inevitable. If loot return was 110%, there would still be people whining. Yes, we all want more loot, and yes it's what we whine about. But it's not why everyone leaves, most people whining about loot are still here whining about loot years later. People leave because they're bored. Imo, the main problem is the lack of players, the lack of knowledge of EU in the general populace, all the fractures, disjointedness, buck-passing, and waste created by having multiple and unnecessary planet partners, and last, but very much not least, the fact that the gameplay is often very very repetitive. I think MA are working on all of those things to various extents.

    You cite for instance questionaires and MA wanting people to return to the game as a sign of a problem. All companies with customers, also lose customers. Finding out as much as you can about why is sensible, as is trying to get some of them back. It would be more of a sign of trouble if MA weren't doing these things.

    Finally, you say you're interested in protecting the future of EU, and then follow that up with a wonderful plug for Diablo 3. The comparison is not really reasonable, EU is well-established, people understand it and there aren't going to be huge easy profits to be made any more. The stat you state of making $230 in 20hrs of play cannot be representative of Diablo 3 in general. Either you are doing something much more intelligently than the average player, or you got very lucky (if not thousands of people will be doing the same thing soon, and the market will eventually balance out).

    Honestly, think about the
    PSYCHOLOGY of it all!
    Last edited by Jimmy B; 08-15-2012 at 23:38.

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