Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

Info: Huge investor promises to revamp the dynamics of Entropia Universe loot returns.

Status
Viperstrike said:
Yes I was involved with a team of 5 others in investigating Entropia for filtering purposes - Illegal casino or not. EU passed as a result of a number of partcipants input into the final conclusion, including DD and DS who were involved in great detail. Sorry i wish not to give further details on who DS and DD are, most of you know who I am speaking of.
Viper / Andy
Click to expand...

This certainly drew my attention...In what capacity were you evaluating EU, from an Australian Government point of view (you mentioned working for the Government)? Is there a report that has been tabled in which you are able to share?
 
Grrrrr said:
This certainly drew my attention...In what capacity were you evaluating EU, from an Australian Government point of view (you mentioned working for the Government)? Is there a report that has been tabled in which you are able to share?
Click to expand...

Hi Grrrrr,

I worked in conjunction with Australian Communications and Media Authority for the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy of which we were involved with a number of projects ranging from pornographic filtering through to online casinos, EU being RCE was a notable project which I signed on for.

Yes there was a number of internal reports tabled, none were for public release as far as I know. I was not there until the very end due to an accident. I do know though that EU got through and passed. :wise:

@ Jimmy B post, thanks for the tips, I will reconsider my standpoint when replying to people who come in to the conversation on their back foot to begin with in attack stance :) Maybe offering a cup of tea, busicuit or a lollypop would help them :wise:
 
Only thing that comes to mind in regards to this post is a quotation from a book I read once. "Who is John Galt?"
 
Aura Lily said:
Only thing that comes to mind in regards to this post is a quotation from a book I read once. "Who is John Galt?"
Click to expand...

Yes, well in a sense, we are looking at redesigning the wheel (loot subsystem) as our first point to change in this virtual economy. However mixing John Galts' idea of a revolutionary new motor vehicle that runs of static electricity is taking it maybe a bit too far .... much like how the loot subsystem is today.

In essence we are more looking to simplify the system and put in some stablizing factors that people can rely on as known quantities, therefore in knowing what is quantifiable they can then more easily digest that part and work on the smaller portion which is unquantifiable and only a potential in making there profits or losses in the RCE environment.
 
There is no real suggestion to PC Staff, so had to decide whether to move this to either fan fiction or loot theories section.

Hopefully this location will help some folks understand that, while trying to bring up certain issues via a fictional tale, the fact remains it's a piece of fiction.
 
This is :offtopic:, but can't resist.

Jimmy B said:
Trust me, I've had ...17 sexual partners...
Click to expand...

What he fails to tell you is that they were all a group for a single night. A glorious night to be sure, but he has had none before, or since.
 
Viperstrike said:
Yes, well in a sense, we are looking at redesigning the wheel (loot subsystem) as our first point to change in this virtual economy. However mixing John Galts' idea of a revolutionary new motor vehicle that runs of static electricity is taking it maybe a bit too far .... much like how the loot subsystem is today.

In essence we are more looking to simplify the system and put in some stablizing factors that people can rely on as known quantities, therefore in knowing what is quantifiable they can then more easily digest that part and work on the smaller portion which is unquantifiable and only a potential in making there profits or losses in the RCE environment.
Click to expand...

I wasn't thinking so much about the Tesla / Static electricity engine but the "something for everyone promise" the powers that be in the story was purporting. But how that affected the inhabitants of that situation and who benefited most from that proposed think? That was in my opinion the jest of the book. Not to get into a political discussion, just saying.

The question that should be considered is about the economics of "something for everyone" and what is the true cost?
 
Aura Lily said:
The question that should be considered is about the economics of "something for everyone" and what is the true cost?
Click to expand...

Now this is a fantastic question and kudos to you Lily for asking it.

A due diligence would have to be undertaken to quantify the costs involved, however I could not imagine it would be more than the rate at which we are losing customers to bad loot, event losses, mission rebalancing, upstarts like diablo 3 and others just to mention a few.

This is a question I can not answer unfortunately, though I do not see a massive change being needed and the costs associated with that change would need to keep MA & PP afloat and happy.

Not making excessive profit, but enough to continue on with development and have something left over at the end of it all.

We have all the fundermental systems in place, what would be needed is an assessment of all items, mobs and loot tables vs the impact of rulesets in the ruleset & balancing engine that effect outcomes.

Will this be a posative or a negative.

Well here is a dilema that we face;

Todays population playing Entropia has dwindled to the extent where we mainly have only two major classes left playing -

1. Those who are here to gamble and have fun,
2. Those who are here merely to be social and have fun.

The minor groups are no long existent in great numbers that they can any longer be considered a group.

What we are missing is the filling, the numbers to make up the major group which is no longer present, the gamers here for the rce potential (Not including the limited number of what we term long term uber players); but more the general everyday folk here to have a go at making a little profit or a little loss for the fun of it which is affordable and not a great hit to the budget if it does turn out a loss.

The primary group we mainly have today is those who are here to gamble (As stated by a few people such as in Crones' post), lose big or win big and this saddens me as it will add to the cost of change with the potential to lose a few of these people (Our present day primary playerbase).

However, there is a far greater potential to bring through new groups of people who are looking for fun, the rce element and to play an affordable game which has some quantifiable factors to it, and ofc some unquantifiable; presently we are missing the quatifiable (stablizing) factors which are the most important to provide a to the psychological needs of each individual playing Entropia Universe.

The unquantifiable which at present represent the entirity of the Universe at this point (85%+) do not provide a "stable environment" to retentively keep those who are lured to the potential of making a bit of coin for fun in an affordable context.

The wheel needs to be changed somewhat, atm it is octagonal, it needs to become more rounded in its design, simplified for smother operation and for a more pleasant journey.

The smaller unquantifiable portion mentioned ONLY as an example on a conceptual level must remain as to not lose the essence of Entropia (Chaotic elements) in our Universe of challenges.

The short version being, simplification of the loot subsystem including a better balance between a GREATER quantifiable portion to meet the many psychological needs of human beings when it comes to money and a LESSER unquantifiable potential to improve upon that which is quantifiable in making a profit or continuing with a steady but small loss to the service providers (MA & PP) in which they use to pay investors, equipment TCO, utilities, rents and their employees.


I feel the present boost in cash 6 mil USD from CLD sales should be partly used into researching out the costs involved with change and potentially making those changes before initiating a full fledged worldwide marketing campaign involving both digital media (banner logos) and paper (magazines/game reporters).

The changes to the foundation of Entropia in improving the wheel (Loot subsystem) being the primary element that makes up the RCE concept in this game would be a beneficial stand point to take to combat the prior, Entropia is all about gambling which plagues the greater review and commentary media content out there as of present.
 
Last edited:
Viperstrike said:
Hi Grrrrr,

I worked in conjunction with Australian Communications and Media Authority for the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy of which we were involved with a number of projects ranging from pornographic filtering through to online casinos, EU being RCE was a notable project which I signed on for.

Yes there was a number of internal reports tabled, none were for public release as far as I know. I was not there until the very end due to an accident. I do know though that EU got through and passed. :wise:

@ Jimmy B post, thanks for the tips, I will reconsider my standpoint when replying to people who come in to the conversation on their back foot to begin with in attack stance :) Maybe offering a cup of tea, busicuit or a lollypop would help them :wise:
Click to expand...

Hey Viper, thanks for the reply mate, very insightful. Did the Government (aka taxpayer) fund any costs into actually "playing" EU (investing into equipment, hunting etc. etc.)? And, also, from an investment point of view, was EU discussed in any manner of a possible tax claim?*

*(Okay, second question was tongue in cheek) :silly2:
 
JohnCapital said:
This is :offtopic:, but can't resist.



What he fails to tell you is that they were all a group for a single night. A glorious night to be sure, but he has had none before, or since.
Click to expand...

And there's this specific detail you are leaving out. It was in the shower right after he dropped the soap.

Crone will of course come with a more suitable answer when he's in the bus.
 
Grrrrr said:
Hey Viper, thanks for the reply mate, very insightful. Did the Government (aka taxpayer) fund any costs into actually "playing" EU (investing into equipment, hunting etc. etc.)? And, also, from an investment point of view, was EU discussed in any manner of a possible tax claim?*

*(Okay, second question was tongue in cheek) :silly2:
Click to expand...

Hi Grrrrr,

Yes the government (aka tax payer) funds all research into all digital media filtering projects. I know your going to say then the reports tabled should be public. Unfortunately the ones I worked on before the accident were just internal reports to my supervisior who then compiled those with the other team members for a commitee to decide upon the outcome of which it then went to the communications minister for final approval with a list of other reports.

To answer your question more specifically, yes there was funding of 1000 AUD a month for the project which ran for 3 years (of which I participated ~ 2 years and a bit). We were also allowed to add in additional funds of our own as long as they were detailed in the report properly. The funds were transferred to our personal account then into the service provider (In this case EU) as to be unknown to the service provider that they were under investigation.

I will admit, I broke the code of conduct and ethics rules a number of times doing trades through RL friends who also played entropia to buy better gear to play with as I personally love the game - Hey I wouldn't be back here now if I didn't :)

I was repremanded and had 2 official warnings against me for breaking these rules in having let Marco B at the time know investiagtive information - My bad, it was to help out. I think he took it with a grain of salt anyway.

I was afraid it was not going to pass at the time as there were to many question marks against too many aspects of Entropia at the time - Gambling being the biggest issue with only a minute amount of skill attached to it to influence outcomes. However skill was indeed required to meet level requirements of items, effeciency/economy and various level challenges; but still the gambling aspect weighed heavily.

I am retired now, government pension for an accident that occured in the work car park where I was hit.

Also some further information on DS, he did a lot with the tax department to explain his income and how the game worked. This weighed heavily in favour of Entropia passing at the time also.

I did not see any of the end reports (There were several), only what I was working on myself. The goal was to keep our findings seperate so that it could be compiled for a commitee to decide on in the end.

Sorry its a new life now I do not wish to go into too much detail over the previous work, I do miss it, it was fun and challenging, but also tiresome and boring a lot of the time - Logging, number crunching, record formation etc every run and having to do it all natural without chipping.

Lavawalker had to be shut down, I am sad this was the case and tried to keep the avatar but was refused.

Some knew of my adventures as a spai (funny context) at the time, but only a few. DD, DS, LS, PS, AB and ofc MB later in the piece who took it with a grain of salt I believe.
 
Great input by Lily so far, anyone else with any questions, comments, suggestions to improve Entropia's media image before presenting it to the world again ?

Please no more past work life questions, I am still wary as to what my legal obligations to work in the past are on this project not having been there up to the end. I am not entirely sure how much I can mention tbh in this respect; due to this I will not discuss that subject further than I already have.
 
Last edited:
Government subsidized avatar had to be deleted in the end, makes sense.
In total you have sold out from EU 3 times and this is your 4th comeback, right? If i remember it right, that was also the case with Afterworld - 3 or 4 sellouts/comebacks.
Was this also connected to some government research project(s)? Just curious... ;)
 
Fifth said:
Government subsidized avatar had to be deleted in the end, makes sense.
In total you have sold out from EU 3 times and this is your 4th comeback, right? If i remember it right, that was also the case with Afterworld - 3 or 4 sellouts/comebacks.
Was this also connected to some government research project(s)? Just curious... ;)
Click to expand...

Hi Fifth,

1st sellout of Lavawalker was due to the accident halting my continuation of the project.
2nd sellout of Lavawalker is because I broke my work contract/agreement. (Not the EULA in EU)

Viperstrike was born as a result of playing AW, I couldn't use Lavawalker as it was assigned to the investigation of Entropia Universe as an online casino and potential money laundering facility and posts were being monitored (somewhat) on then EntropiaForum and later PCF when it converted over.

1st sellout of Viperstrike in EU was due to major health problems associated with the accident.

http://www.entropiaplanets.com/foru...uch-needed-lifestyle-change-is-required.6970/

I had as a result of the induced coma they put me in on heavy medication light psychosis (resolved) and due to the shock of it all, diabetis, diagnosed not too long after due to excessive weight gain - Medication related.

All sorted now, lost 23kgs bringing me back close to my optimal weight for my height. Got my new car, gym equipment and have some money saved in a rollover fund that I am waiting to exit for returning to gaming, primarily EU again.

This is the 4th return of which I will invest again in Entropia, however a bit nervous of doing so having now seen its much declined state of affairs.

Viperstrike on Afterworld was a private toon, not a work toon, I played for fun only, and funded privately.

http://www.afterworldforum.com/forums/threads/viperstrike-a-man-with-a-vision.519/

I know that Afterworld was flagged, but no idea on how the investigation went, the IGA handled that one as did it initially handle Entropia before being taken over by the department I worked for - Yes we went through 3 agency changes before the project ending up in the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy.

You may remember this post where I dropped the bombshell >
http://www.afterworldforum.com/forums/threads/unbalanced-sau-globals.452/#post-3734

Again giving possible solutions to a problem I felt would stand out to an investigator of the service.

Today I also noticed they mentioned - Afterworld Survival - had been released.
http://www.afterworldforum.com/forums/threads/afterworld-survival-released.1117/

Something I won't be bothered checking out since I lost faith in the development cycle and lack of communication by dedicated logic.

So in short, EU was work for Lavawalker, now 100% retired, including all forums and EU itself.

Viperstrike is a privately funded avatar in both services - Any chipping out in EU was due to a need for changing something dramatic in my life - That being my health.

Viperstrike in Afterworld left and returned on occassion when major updates came about, hoping some nice development had been achieved though sorely disappointed each time.

Anyway, Lavawalker is now buried, Viperstrike in EU remains;

And AW is a long lost memory that I doubt I will ever set foot back to due to their past track record.
No I was not involved in any official investigation of Afterworld, I only pointed out aspects which would stick out to an investigator from time to time.

Cheers,
Viper.

PS. This is how I would describe myself today as a retiree for life.

 
Last edited:
2011 IGA Act review.

Hi,

Not to go off-topic too much, however this is a related part to the redesign of the wheel. (loot subsystem)

Some of you may have remembered me mentioning in a past life (As Lavawalker) that a review of the IGA was to be undertaken in 2011/2012.

Here is a basic outline:

More info here > http://www.dbcde.gov.au/broadband/online_gambling


2011 review of the Interactive Gambling Act 2001

The Interactive Gambling Act 2001
Submissions received for the review of the Interactive Gambling Act 2001

The Australian Government, after consultation with the states and territories, decided that the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy would undertake a review of the operation of the Interactive Gambling Act 2001.

Terms of reference for the review

Having regard to the issues facing the enforcement of the Interactive Gambling Act 2001 (the Act), the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy is to undertake a review of the operation of the Act, with reference to:

  • the growth of online gambling services (both regulated and unregulated) in Australia and overseas, and the risk of this to the incidence of problem gambling
  • the development of new technologies, including smartphones, and the convergence of existing technologies that may accelerate the current trend towards the take-up of online gambling services in Australia and overseas
  • the adequacy of the existing provisions of the Act, including technical, operational and enforcement issues relating to the prohibition of interactive gambling services and the advertising of such services
  • consideration, where appropriate, of technology and platform neutrality including current distinctions relating to 'betting on the run' and micro-betting
  • international regulatory approaches to online gambling services including consideration of their effectiveness and cost
  • examination of the social, tax, jurisdictional and enforcement aspects of regulated access to interactive gambling services currently prohibited under the Act
  • harm minimisation strategies for online gambling
  • the findings of the Joint Select Committee on Gambling Reform inquiry into interactive and online gambling and gambling advertising and the Productivity Commission Inquiry Report on Gambling (2010), and
  • any other relevant matters.

^^ inserted comment by Viperstrike - Pretty much what I was rambling on so much about on Lavawalker on the forums and got into trouble for prior to my accident

In undertaking the review, the department will consult with key stakeholders, states and territories and the broader Australian community. The department will commission additional research as needed.

The department is to provide a report of its findings to the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy by the first half of 2012, subject to the Joint Select Committee on Gambling Reform reporting by the end of 2011.
Click to expand...

But hey, this is from a previous work life :) Back to having some fun in EU !!
 
Last edited:
Crone seems totally wrong on what you actually like to hear. Are you looking for the loot theory, a new loot theory or a way to keep players playing after you bought the game? What is your goal in this thread?
 
Crone said:
Crone seems totally wrong on what you actually like to hear. Are you looking for the loot theory, a new loot theory or a way to keep players playing after you bought the game? What is your goal in this thread?
Click to expand...

Hello Crone,

A combination of things, more looking for input to see how we can move forward in coming up with a way to:

  • lure new players by combating the adversity which is already in the media about Entropia being a gambling platform in which the foundation of the RCE platform has been changed in such a way that it can no longer be claimed to be gambling in the majority of senses and forms.
  • retentively keep players playing the game with the financial aspect attached (RCE)
  • meet the psychological needs of most (85%+) playing individuals when it comes to fiscal matters through introducing greater quantifiable factors and lesser of the unknown giving the individual a great sense of security on all levels for a smoother journey through the Entropia Universe RCE game.
  • and other factors as they arise - Sorry a bit tired now to think of them all.

So it is not just one specific element that we are looking at here, however all elements are directed at the foundation of the RCE concept, the loot subsystem and ruleset balancing engine.

I hope that makes sense.
 
Last edited:
Viperstrike said:
...

..., my goal is to change all that and renew and redefine the Entropia Universe concept whilst bringing new life to the meaning and potential of real cash economies.

...
Entropia Universe will still be dynamic, however it will no longer be known as an online casino, even by the critics. There will be no less than an 80% return promised per activity undertaken in the Universe. The remaining 20% will be made up of profit of which portions shall be returned to the playerbase as gifts for their continued play and/or hard work.
..
Click to expand...


Jimmy B said:
... Imo, the main problem is the lack of players, the lack of knowledge of EU in the general populace, all the fractures, disjointedness, buck-passing, and waste created by having multiple and unnecessary planet partners, and last, but very much not least, the fact that the gameplay is often very very repetitive. I think MA are working on all of those things to various extents.
...
Click to expand...

Do we really have a problem with EU?

Sure, we do have a lot of whining over here but the CLD payouts do show quite a constant player base or at least a stable PED flow.

We should maybe ask into what EU might develop? Unfortunately or maybe fortunately there are many aspects to consider and it is not always evident what implications singles changes might have.
I think the most criticized issues over here are:

  1. Cost to play is too high.
  2. Repetitive tasks and lack of gameplay.
  3. False promises and lack of communication.
  4. Lack of player base.

To 1: The implemented loot distribution has a payback% of greater than 90% and is therefore reasonable high. The cost to play is not related to it and depends only on the absolute number of PEDs you have to cycle.

To 2: Every game will become boring sooner or later. This is normally addressed by new features that do cost time and money to implement and are only welcome by a minority of players. Hence, this looks quite like a money trap.

To 3: Those are purely provider problems.

To 4: I guess this is the most important issue and might be related to 1-3.
 
Viperstrike said:
[*]lure new players by combating the adversity which is already in the media about Entropia being a gambling platform in which the foundation of the RCE platform has been changed in such a way that it can no longer be claimed to be gambling in the majority of senses and forms.
Click to expand...
While EU is not a pyramid scheme, getting people to hear about it who have not already heard about it might be like trying to use the same type of methodology that those use... which isn't easy... because of the way that advertising to friends and family, etc. works...
Pyramid_graph.gif
PONZI.jpg


In other words, MA has been around long enough that it's going to be difficult to find people who have not already heard about it in some way at some point in time. You can't really consider something that is gambling like playing the loot slot machine as not being gambling, and even if you pretend it's not, others can, will and do see right through the self delusion.

Viperstrike said:
[*]retentively keep players playing the game with the financial aspect attached (RCE)
Click to expand...
CLDs helped with that. More options like that available in the future might be a good idea.

Viperstrike said:
[*]meet the psychological needs of most (85%+) playing individuals when it comes to fiscal matters through introducing greater quantifiable factors and lesser of the unknown giving the individual a great sense of security on all levels for a smoother journey through the Entropia Universe RCE game.
Click to expand...
I think the dev notes were to do that but they backfired since MA already revealed too much by more or less explaining that there is no personal loot pool, thereby destroying some individual's self delusions that such a thing really did exist that they have been trying to believe in vain for years...

Viperstrike said:
[*]and other factors as they arise - Sorry a bit tired now to think of them all.
Click to expand...
Fix bugs, fix exploits, bring back broken systems... Over a thousand days without taming is way too long. Letting new avatars get a chance to have all beauty options available as soon as they start killed the beauty business. Killing the ability to tp and auction between planets is slowly killing the planets. When there was only one planet with multiple continents that avatars could tp before, many explored unhindered by the bottlenecks like pvp space since those bottlenecks weren't there... They are there now... getting rid of the bottlenecks will open moving between the planets more to those that don't do it now. Give avatars reasons to explore new content freely or cheaply. Don't force them to pay taxi fees and then ask them why they aren't paying them every day...

Some of the best things that have happened to Entropia lately that seem to be close to some of the goals you are wanting to discuss... the addition of Ancient Greece to Next Island - this is something that people can identify with somewhat since it's something they have studied about in some aspect, etc., the addition of THE THING - this is something tied to a movie, and it something that is very cheap which is sort of aimed at the casual gamer audience... the HUB - something similar to the thing on Cyrene, aimed at casual gamers so cost to participate is not what it generally is in the rest of the game. If Mindark and PPs want more folks coming in to the game they need to make new stuff like that ALL OF THE TIME, and actually make that THE FOCUS on all future expansions and additions AFTER THEY FIX THE BROKEN SYSTEMS, BUGS AND EXPLOITS THAT CURRENTLY HAVE NOT BEEN FIXED SINCE VU 10 OR EALIER... All of this new, lower cost, and/or going even further - free- type of stuff should make up 90% of the game eventually... get to that point, where the mining, hunting and crafting slot machines are only 10 percent of the game and the masses and media won't focus on that aspect of the game so much since it will play such a small part of it... However, lots need to change in very short amount of time in the next few years to make any of that sort of thing happen. The changes have started to happen here and there, and hopefully more snowball effects will cause more in the future years, but not at the speed that they need to yet.. may change eventually, but so far has not happened...

Also, MA needs to take a look at every Q&A, interview, etc. that has been done since the beginning - look at content of oblivion and Marco says threads for most of where those sort of things are, and address and/or fix every broken promise made ever... or address them one by one and say something like "well we promised x but never delivered it, the new direction and changes in management have forced us to break that promise and we would like to retract that promise since it's not going to happen even - sorry to get your hopes up that we could keep our promises on that..." or something like that . So far, they have essentially ignored that sort of thing... hoping it will just go away. Breaking a promise and never addressing that later doesn't make the issue go away. It might blind those that never heard of the promise who are brand new in fresh OJs, but those that do know about it, or were there when the promises were made, etc. won't ever forget it. MA has been silent a lot lately, and probably has been told to not make more promises, etc., but just being quite and hoping that things from the past won't come back to bite you in the ass isn't the way to fix that sort of problem. To fix a skeleton in the closet, it needs to be faced head on.
 
Last edited:
Great input MM :)

Great input MM,

As you have put forward, there are not too many that have not heard of EU - Gaming forums, reviews, news blitz etc. Unfortunately many of the comments on most reviews go straight towards it being gambling and the negative end of the spectrum, in essence, destroying the lure and capture potential of a new or returning participant and ultimately the image of Entropia Universe.

I wish I had access still to the work db as I could have put a list up for people to see what I mean.

What I am hoping for is that this negative mindset view of Entropia can be changed by modifying the foundation of EU (The loot & ruleset engine/subsystem); Changing it in a way that is attractive to an individual looking to get involved or who is already involved and empowering them through transparancy.

In saying that I do understand how transparancy can be destructive if the wrong elements are involved, such as the loot pool, personal loot pool, etc theories that kept many peoples belief systems "balanced/sustained" in justifying their financial investments, loses and gains throughout their gameplay.

This is where I come back to quoting myself in relation to this:

So here is the basics:

All we are doing is placing in one variable quantifier offering a standard baseline 80% return (80% being an example only) along with additional factors which all impact that return such as economy/effeciency/equipment used and the counter loots as mentioned in the OP to adjust the players outcome further into the positive or negative range. (ie. Making a profit or slightly greater lose)

Putting in this what I would call a stablizing factor would bring back people to the game having a knowledge of what to expect, almost like how we lean on our chosen GOD for our faith, it is a stablizier for many in the real world. (Not that god has anything to do with this subject, it is just an example of a stablizier/crutch/firm grounding point - Let Lootius bless you all!)
Click to expand...

We want to move away from destroying belief systems through creating a "real & factual" baseline that people can lean on like a crutch and install into their belief system knowing it as fact (A stablizing factor) through transparancy of the such whereby they can justify their financial investment and further costs/loses on this instiled knowledge.

With the right changes to the loot subsystem and ruleset balancing engine, and through transparancy of these changes with the end user playing the Entropia Universe RCE game, one can then empower that end user to invest and continue to invest into their progression of their avatar in the virtual real cash environment to a far greater extent than what is possible today.

These being the important points that require transparancy once implemented:

Viperstrike said:
What we are missing is the filling, the numbers to make up the major group which is no longer present, the gamers here for the rce potential (Not including the limited and dwindling number of what we term long term uber players); but more the masses of general everyday folk here to have a go at making a little profit or a little loss for the fun of it which is affordable and not a great hit to the budget if it does turn out a loss.
.
.
However, there is a far greater potential to bring through new groups of people who are looking for fun, the rce element and to play an affordable game which has some quantifiable factors to it, and ofc some unquantifiable; presently we are missing the quatifiable (stablizing) factors which are the most important to provide a to the psychological needs of each individual playing Entropia Universe.
.
.
The short version being, simplification of the loot subsystem including a better balance between a GREATER quantifiable portion to meet the many psychological needs of human beings when it comes to money and a LESSER unquantifiable potential to improve upon that which is quantifiable in making a profit or continuing with a steady but small loss to the service providers (MA & PP) in which they use to pay investors, equipment TCO, utilities, rents and their employees.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
mastermesh said:
In other words, MA has been around long enough that it's going to be difficult to find people who have not already heard about it in some way at some point in time.
Click to expand...

Some good points in your post, but I don't agree with this. I don't claim to have a huge sample of data here, but from my personal experience I've not yet met anyone outside of an EU setting (ie. in-game, forum, RL meet organised on forum, etc) who has heard of EU. Not one. To these people I tend to explain EU as "like WoW but with real money", and almost everyone has heard of WoW.

falkao said:
Do we really have a problem with EU?

Sure, we do have a lot of whining over here but the CLD payouts do show quite a constant player base or at least a stable PED flow.
Click to expand...

Good question hehe. I think CLD payouts are promising, yes, although looking like returning a bit lower than MA's original estimate. That shows hopefully that we don't have a major problem with Calypso. It only takes a quick look at the auction to see that the new planets (which, together with the surrounding infrastructure required for them, have been the main basis of development for some years) aren't really taking off. Even on the most successful other planet, I was struggling to sell stuff in days/week on auction at prices that would have sold within minutes on Calypso. Maybe it is just that they've not had enough time yet, but some of them have been around quite a while now.

falkao said:
  1. Cost to play is too high.
  2. Repetitive tasks and lack of gameplay.
  3. False promises and lack of communication.
  4. Lack of player base.

To 1: The implemented loot distribution has a payback% of greater than 90% and is therefore reasonable high. The cost to play is not related to it and depends only on the absolute number of PEDs you have to cycle.

To 2: Every game will become boring sooner or later. This is normally addressed by new features that do cost time and money to implement and are only welcome by a minority of players. Hence, this looks quite like a money trap.

To 3: Those are purely provider problems.

To 4: I guess this is the most important issue and might be related to 1-3.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think 1 is a ridiculous suggestion. Anyone complaining about 1, is actually complaining about 2 imo. You can run around sweating, or shooting Opalo, for minimal entertainment cost. The problem is, because of 2, people get bored of that, and so grind on bigger and bigger mobs to get a thrill from the gambling side of things. And eventually they're hunting with ridiculous economy on mobs way too large, and then the whining about 1 starts.

2 is a tricky problem to solve, although I think some good improvements have been made recently. New options for play like Space, new and more events, vehicles, tiering, more visible hope of looting items, etc. The grinding nature of much of the gameplay, which may be unavoidable, is part of the problem (shooting mobs gets boring faster than playing chess; every game of chess is different and requires different lines of thought). It's inevitable EU will lose old players over time, just like any other game will. That's why new players are always needed.

3 is an easy problem to solve, if MA wanted to. Again there have been some improvements, like the Dev Notes, but it always seems to be very staccato.
 
falkao said:
I think the most criticized issues over here are:

  1. Cost to play is too high.
  2. Repetitive tasks and lack of gameplay.
  3. False promises and lack of communication.
  4. Lack of player base.
Click to expand...

1 & 4 are interesting and what we are trying to tackle as the primary purpose of this thread.

Cost to play is too high - Solvable through bringing more people to entropia or have those who have quit return. Lack of Player Base, resulting in higher costs to play to pay for MA & PP requirements, refer to one.

2 & 3 - Are not in the context of this games' underlaying RCE concept, they are only secondary.
People will ignore the grinding aspects just as they do in Diablo 3 RCE today and lack of gameplay, likewise in Diablo 3 RCE using it as an example if there is the potential to make a little profit here and there.


Back to 1 & 4, Cost to play being so high is a result of lack of playerbase, not of MA/PP being greedy. Read their financial reports and you will see that yes indeed some of MA costs are very bloated however they are not being greedy in taking what is needed to turn a profit to continue the development process of the game and to ensure adequate funding is there for the slower periods & incidents that may result in diminished activity.

The CLD returns are by no means an indicator of playerbase numbers, only an indicator of money being turned over at this point in time by those presently playing which IMHO is an EXTREMELY POOR return. I do not and will not own a single CLD until I see it returning tripple or more than at present.

What if I told you with the right aspects rectified and a new marketing campaign to bring these adjustments for a change of image that is positive to the marketplace, we could see returns as high as 10 PED, even 20 PED per week if it was done right - It is not a fable, the potential is there to bring it this high and beyond.

Again - Good input, however 2 & 3 points are secondary and not what I would call a priority with making this game successful in using Diablo 3 RCE as a comparative game to put things into greater perspective.

The RCE core, is where the fundermental changes must begin and it is the core which needs to be aligned to market forces - That being the justification of spending money to progress in the gaming environment, meaning we have to look at ATTUNING entropia's RCE core to meet these demands which are for the most part psychological through transparancy to empower the end user using the service in justifying their expenses to play.

Cheers,
Viper
 
Last edited:
To start with: how is this not a casino? Either Crone wins or he losses. He is in no way capable to predict these gains and losses. In the long run he will definitely loose since ma needs gain left or right. So one could say this is exactly a casino model. The house has an edge of ##%.

Viperstrike said:
Hello Crone,

A combination of things, more looking for input to see how we can move forward in coming up with a way to:

  • lure new players by combating the adversity which is already in the media about Entropia being a gambling platform in which the foundation of the RCE platform has been changed in such a way that it can no longer be claimed to be gambling in the majority of senses and forms.
  • retentively keep players playing the game with the financial aspect attached (RCE)
  • meet the psychological needs of most (85%+) playing individuals when it comes to fiscal matters through introducing greater quantifiable factors and lesser of the unknown giving the individual a great sense of security on all levels for a smoother journey through the Entropia Universe RCE game.
  • and other factors as they arise - Sorry a bit tired now to think of them all.

So it is not just one specific element that we are looking at here, however all elements are directed at the foundation of the RCE concept, the loot subsystem and ruleset balancing engine.

I hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

EU has poor game play. You select a mob, click auto fire and press the loot button. Most mmorpg are exactly the same with this difference: missions and a reasonable goal to reach. In EU there's no end to an achievement at least not that we know off. Then in any mmorpg you get the challenge of group activities. You hardly have those in EU. To be able to do these group activities you need to collect gear which is possible in a variety of different ways. In EU there is only one way to get top gear which is mostly about a credit card. Then when all achievements are reached by a number of players a new expansion is added in an mmorpg. And all this for 13,99 per month+ plus another fifty per expansion each... Year? In EU it also costs 1399 for a slightly better than midlevel gear armour. So yes, EU is too expensive.

Maybe if ma solves that more people will like to play a game with Crone. Crone does see new faces often, but they leave when they went hunting with their first 100 PED and notice it only takes them an hour to loose it. Mining is an awesome system almost no other game has it, but you can end up dropping 75 bombs in half an hour finding nothing. Till that is solved there is no need for other things. The system you're describing is of no interest to the players that are now. They need the thrill. And they need prices of their gear to stay up or go up.

Let's just say ma has a huge problem to solve.Crone would go for the Mass though.
 
Viperstrike said:
however 2 & 3 points are secondary and not what I would call a priority with making this game successful in using Diablo 3 RCE as a comparative game to put things into greater perspective.
Click to expand...

Diablo 3 is brand new. It cannot be used for comparative purposes when measuring success of EU, which has been around for a decade. I thought the RCE nature of it is also rather different - is it not free/subscription with the possibility to sell some items for real money? That's not really the same as the EU model.
 
Crone said:
To start with: how is this not a casino? Either Crone wins or he losses. He is in no way capable to predict these gains and losses. In the long run he will definitely loose since ma needs gain left or right. So one could say this is exactly a casino model. The house has an edge of ##%.



EU has poor game play. You select a mob, click auto fire and press the loot button. Most mmorpg are exactly the same with this difference: missions and a reasonable goal to reach. In EU there's no end to an achievement at least not that we know off. Then in any mmorpg you get the challenge of group activities. You hardly have those in EU. To be able to do these group activities you need to collect gear which is possible in a variety of different ways. In EU there is only one way to get top gear which is mostly about a credit card. Then when all achievements are reached by a number of players a new expansion is added in an mmorpg. And all this for 13,99 per month+ plus another fifty per expansion each... Year? In EU it also costs 1399 for a slightly better than midlevel gear armour. So yes, EU is too expensive.

Maybe if ma solves that more people will like to play a game with Crone. Crone does see new faces often, but they leave when they went hunting with their first 100 PED and notice it only takes them an hour to loose it. Mining is an awesome system almost no other game has it, but you can end up dropping 75 bombs in half an hour finding nothing. Till that is solved there is no need for other things. The system you're describing is of no interest to the players that are now. They need the thrill. And they need prices of their gear to stay up or go up.

Let's just say ma has a huge problem to solve.Crone would go for the Mass though.
Click to expand...

2 & 3 points as stated in my previous post I call secondary points, they are not what I believe is primary to differentiate this game from the many dozens of other MMOs out there to select from. The primary points which make this game particularly special is the underlaying RCE concept.

In saying that, I DO AGREE, this game can get boring and watching the grass grow on a summers day.

Many improvements can be made, however you will be competiting with many dozens of other MMOs who have all these things to a factor of 10 times better than Entropia that you can play for free these days or advanced version for a small subscription of 10 to 20 usd a month.

So these developments need to be prioritized as to what will most likely bring the PAYING customers back in droves ? A few fancy changes to gameplay or a overhaul of the foundation of Entropia the RCE core.
 
Jimmy B said:
is it not free with the possibility to sell all items for real money? That's not really the same as the EU model.
Click to expand...

How is it not different to how Entropia is currently advertised to the marketplace ?

Yes it is 100% free to play, it makes its money through commission on sales.
So yes, the model differs slightly, it seems to be more successful "at present".
Some days are just BS to try and log into the service it is so jam packed. Honeymoon period.

EU has been around a decade but also has been in slow decline now for the last few years.
Times are changing, and so must Entropia with the changing climate and its needss, its pioneering days are over.

New competition is rapidly entering the marketplace, Diablo 3 leads the way now from the big developer perspective, others will follow in a rather short period of time to come to meet demand in this quickly evolving market space.
 
Give us some numbers viperstrike, what do you need to get 10 to 20 PED return on 1 cld?
 
Crone said:
Give us some numbers viperstrike, what do you need to get 10 to 20 PED return on 1 cld?
Click to expand...

Currently we have roughly 4 PED return average, so 2.5X to 5X the expendature (turnover) in the game as of present, meaning we would need to grow the game by a factor of 10X to 20X new players to reach this potential as the new players ofc will for the most part start out young and decay slower at the lower levels as they progress.

However with time and progress, they will grow, so dropouts are acceptable along the way as well as those who wish to keep to budgets and keeping it small and fun.

A constant influx flow of new retained participants will be needing to be achieved each year.

The more participants that drop out saying bad things about Entropia on gamer forums,digital-mediaspace and social networks and the like will add to a negative impact on this continued flow of participants each year.

However if changes can be made to the RCE core that limit this impact - As fictionally for fun were presented in the OP .....

not talking numbers, just hypothetical examples - ie. 80% return with a higher potential was just an example

.... Then the chance of the following years lure and capture will be greatly improved, with lesser expenses needed by MA & PPs as the years go by to continue this process.

Sorry I can not give you firm numbers Crone, I am simply pulling guestimates out of my arse in the most reserved way possible, using 4 PED per CLD by 60,000 CLDs as our example to work with.
 
Status
Back
Top