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Rebalanced Mission Rewards

Wollongong said:
When you go from daik/shink to argo, the leap is quite big.
Click to expand...

So... why not go via other mobs, simply?

Daikiba Young has 30 hp and 14 dmg.
Daikiba Mature has 70 hp and 16 dmg.
Daikiba Old has 90 hp and 16 dmg.
Argonaut Scout (current) has 250 hp and 30 dmg.
Argonaut Young has 300 hp and 20 dmg.

So the issue would be bridging the gap between for example Daikiba Old and Argonaut Young, 90-300 health mobs.

In that gap we have (even if making sure the damage is not too much higher either) several maturities of for example Bristlehog, Caudatergus, Combibo, Cornundacauda, Cornundos, Exarosaur, Faucervix, Foul, Gradivore, Kerberos, Merp, Molisk, Mourner, Plumatergus, Prancer, RipperSnapper, Sabakuma, Snablesnot, Snarksnot, Traeskeron...

Several of those (Bristlehog (altho mixed), Cornundacauda, Foul, Merp, Molisk, RipperSnapper, Traeskeron) has missions as well. Really no lack of mobs to hunt just because they up the scouts a bit in health.
 
When handing in attribute tokens do players have to turn in 100 tokens at a time for one full attribute point or can they turn in any amount, such as 10 tokens or whatever amount they wish?
 
Artrat said:
I should also mention that the table refers only to Calypso missions, if the Ark missions are changed in a similar way, and if I manage to finish the 5 more Agility missions that I plan to, then the ratio becomes:

Old rewards: 25 Agility

Rewards gained under old system: 18 Agility

Rewards available under new system: 11.55 Agility

Total if all new missions done: 28.55 Agility ~ 14% more Agility

Thanks MA :thumbup:.
Click to expand...

There will also be more Agility Tokens (and other ones) available on future Calypso missions.
 
Looks pretty good to me.

As far as I can see, the people complaining are:

  • those who've sat on their arses not doing any missions for the last 3 years and now expect to be treated the same as committed players who've dedicated themselves to completing, say, 15-20 iron challenges over that time;
  • those who employed a bad strategy in choosing which missions to work on since the announcement of the rebalancing and now expect to be bailed out;
  • those who couldn't be bothered to work on their migration missions when the mobs were available for over 2 months and now think they should be given another chance (which they probably still wouldn't take anyway).

I think it's clear that most of these people have unrealistic expectations and that their complaining should be discounted.

The only caveat I would make to that is in relation to the Steelbirds. I know there are some people who have been trying hard to complete this mission recently, but have been unable to do so because the spawns have been inadequate. It would be good to see some spawn improvements to give them a chance to complete it (I completed this mission long ago btw so it doesn't affect me personally).

Please don't extend the deadline any further, let's just get on with it.

Re the argo scouts, I can't see that it makes much difference to anyone really, but it's always been an anomaly so I suggest you go ahead and change it. While you're at it maybe you could fix the odd spawning behaviour which has always meant that Hunters spawn in the wrong maturity range.
 
Isnt good, if i finish in some days 5000 Krelt, i be in loss for a future reward in skills (Rifle or Handgun), becouse a skill-reward of 10k is 1)lowered and 2)splitted to all stages.
Now i stop do a 5k krelt and go to small mobs for arrtibutes, removed in future in rewards.
If MA give us this info earlier (not for 2 weeks before update), all must be better...

THIS UPDATE IS VERY BAD! :mad:
 
you dont like the Iron Missions? - dont do them!

sure rewards have changed / got less.. but there been times when everyone hunted thousands of mobs without getting any ADDITIONAL reward at all..

.. what if MA just deleted all Iron Missions ... I guess they are not obligatory. :silly2:
 
I do not mind a re balancing of the rewards. There is only 1 point i do mind.
All skills and attributes but Stamina i can skill or chip (in the case of skills).
The exception is Stamina which is fully dependent on the missions.

In favour of fairness for all i would like the possible stamina rewards to remain the same on reaching 10k. At the very least as a choice option.

I hope that this part will be reconsidered and improved up on.

Cheers
Siam
 
Moonbiter said:
Oh please, cut the BS.

Let's talk numbers, everything else is just an oppinion. (Numbers below exclude cornoanterion/traeskeron/rexetelum due to lack of data)

Code: 
                   Before   After
Intelligence        16        8.7
Agility             24        10.73
Strength            23        9.25
Stamina             28        21.55

That should be clear enough, but let's take another perspective, amount of Hp needed to kill to get those attributes, counting smallest possible maturity.


To gather 16 Intelligence before change you needed to inflict 3 344 000 hp worth of damage (3.34mil). After change you need 42 825 000 hp (42.8mil!!) or 12 times more.

So, to get half as much attribute, you need to spend 12 times more peds. Yeah, one hell of a rebalance.


And it's also true for individual mission chains taken as a whole. Let's take Aurli, not a noob mob by any measure and one of the harder missions.

Before change: 200ped Athletics or 100ped FA/Diagnosis +1 Int, Agi, Strength, Psyche, Stamina
After change v1 (only skills) 174.3 Athletics or 87.16 FA/Diagnosis + 0 Attributes

If you take some attributes (let's say same amount of agi/stamina as before change, since these seems most in demand for hunters)

After change v2: 134.05 Athletics or 69.66 FA/Diagnosis + 1 Agi and 1.1 Stamina.


So from whichever perspective you look, numbers tell that it is a massive nerf. Not even talking about small mob missions which already were only worth doing because of stamina at the end, now they are totally useless.
Click to expand...

If you account for the fact that you can now save your Attribute Tokens and turn them in later when you have a higher level already I think you will find that the actual potential "Attribute value" is much much higher. If you take an average player of let's say 70 Agility and he gets 1 point of Agility from a mission taking him to 71 then that is something he could have gotten by just shooting without to much trouble.

If he saves the Tokens until he has 90 or even 100 Agility it's suddenly worth probably 1000 or 100000 times more. This is of course true for all attributes except stamina atm and the newer a player was the worse the rewards were, now at least they can choose to think long term and save them until later if they want to.

Imagine if the skill rewards were 100 Points of Rifle, it wouldn't really be worth doing that mission unless you already had 10k Rifle skill or something.
 
rhogenbe said:
I do not mind a re balancing of the rewards. There is only 1 point i do mind.
All skills and attributes but Stamina i can skill or chip (in the case of skills).
The exception is Stamina which is fully dependent on the missions.

In favour of fairness for all i would like the possible stamina rewards to remain the same on reaching 10k. At the very least as a choice option.

I hope that this part will be reconsidered and improved up on.

Cheers
Siam
Click to expand...

Hum I seem to recall that I started a petition the day they announced this upcomming nerf and then further went on to start my agility log to track my progress. Anyways my petition is still semi-active.. but people really aren't paying attention to it.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ron-Mission-Change-Effective-August-21st-2012

~Danimal
 
AtamiKiangola said:
Interesting to hear MA uses as a max. number of attributes given to a single player has per planet partner. A side effect is that people going for attributes will have to move to another planet after a while to progress in that area. Another side effect is that the PP will have content reward problems in the longer run.

Of course, completing 10K in all missions requires more than dedication, one has to be a bit :loco: :yup:

Atami
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People doing the lower levels of missions for attributes already do the planet hopping have been since there were attribute missions on other planets. Going from 1000 to 5000 is a really big step.

I regret not being in a good enough shape to do all 1K missions on calypso and haven't really had time to do any arkadia / rt ones. But this is my problem, not something MA is messing up on.
 
Oleg said:
Looks pretty good to me.

As far as I can see, the people complaining are:

  • those who've sat on their arses not doing any missions for the last 3 years and now expect to be treated the same as committed players who've dedicated themselves to completing, say, 15-20 iron challenges over that time;
  • those who employed a bad strategy in choosing which missions to work on since the announcement of the rebalancing and now expect to be bailed out;
  • those who couldn't be bothered to work on their migration missions when the mobs were available for over 2 months and now think they should be given another chance (which they probably still wouldn't take anyway).
Click to expand...


Sat on their arses? Oleg, this might come as a surprise for you, but some of us have full time jobs, jobs that involve working 60 or 80 hours a week (I know its not your thing, but without those people, everyone living standard would be a lot lower).

And with regards to your migration point ... Maybe players haven't been ready for those migration mobs at the time.

Fact here is that there was no real need to rebalance any missions on Calypso (they could have adjusted all non-Caly missions accordingly) so yet once again, the playerbase is getting fucked over. I for once had the strategy over the past few years NOT to do the missions because I wanted my attributes to be a lot higher before starting the missions (how is that for an argument?) Now that has been fucked over by MA since they have been reducing a lot of attributes.

All in all I see this change as yet once again a shit move from MA (for once, cough up and improve the pp missions and don't nerf the Caly ones) ... My strategy over the past 3 years have been shot to bits by it - thanks MA -

Angel
 
In Love With said:
for once, cough up and improve the pp missions and don't nerf the Caly ones
Click to expand...

Again, the problem is that it would become too easy to get tons of attributes. Just imagine when there are a dozen planets or so, all with really easy attribute giving missions... Travel around and kill a few hundred mobs on each, and *bam* you have 100+ in all attributes :rolleyes:
 
In Love With said:
Sat on their arses? Oleg, this might come as a surprise for you, but some of us have full time jobs, jobs that involve working 60 or 80 hours a week (I know its not your thing, but without those people, everyone living standard would be a lot lower).
Click to expand...

And the people who dedicate more time and effort to EU should be rewarded more.

In Love With said:
I for once had the strategy over the past few years NOT to do the missions because I wanted my attributes to be a lot higher before starting the missions (how is that for an argument?) Now that has been fucked over by MA since they have been reducing a lot of attributes.

All in all I see this change as yet once again a shit move from MA (for once, cough up and improve the pp missions and don't nerf the Caly ones) ... My strategy over the past 3 years have been shot to bits by it - thanks MA -

Angel
Click to expand...

MA haven't fucked your strategy. You had a bad strategy. Even if the mission rewards weren't changing at all, it was still always a bad strategy. There was quite a bit on discussion on this when the first iron challenges came out, in which I and others pointed out why it was a bad strategy. I've been telling you in soc chat for the last few months why it was a bad strategy. Didn't you listen to any of that?
 
er... what exactly are attributes used for again? ;)

You do realise that a similar amount of attributes can now be gained from ALL PP's as well. So essentially... multiply it for each PP for "max potential possible" future attribute increases.
 
In Love With said:
Fact here is that there was no real need to rebalance any missions on Calypso (they could have adjusted all non-Caly missions accordingly) so yet once again, the playerbase is getting fucked over. I for once had the strategy over the past few years NOT to do the missions because I wanted my attributes to be a lot higher before starting the missions (how is that for an argument?) Now that has been fucked over by MA since they have been reducing a lot of attributes.

All in all I see this change as yet once again a shit move from MA (for once, cough up and improve the pp missions and don't nerf the Caly ones) ... My strategy over the past 3 years have been shot to bits by it - thanks MA
Click to expand...

No-one is getting fucked over. Four years ago there were no missions that awarded skill. Now there are. Sure, in the time in between missions gave slightly higher rewards. But they also required the monotony of mindlessly grinding through 16600 mobs before you got to a worthwhile reward. I prefer it the new way tbh.
 
Jimmy B said:
No-one is getting fucked over. Four years ago there were no missions that awarded skill. Now there are. Sure, in the time in between missions gave slightly higher rewards. But they also required the monotony of mindlessly grinding through 16600 mobs before you got to a worthwhile reward. I prefer it the new way tbh.
Click to expand...

Well, actually new people are getting fucked over. Not only are they starting with lower attributes than those of us who created avatar before the nerf. And now, after the change takes place they can only gain half as much attributes as those who did missions before.


And those talking about other planets.. Let's talk numbers again. Currently there are mission giving attributes only on Arkadia, and only 3 of each attribute. Neither RT (disregarding the fluke), nor NI, nor Cyrene has any attribute giving missions to my knowledge. So i don't see how you can "travel around and get 100+ in attributes", maybe it will change in the future.
 
Oleg said:
And the people who dedicate more time and effort to EU should be rewarded more.



MA haven't fucked your strategy. You had a bad strategy. Even if the mission rewards weren't changing at all, it was still always a bad strategy. There was quite a bit on discussion on this when the first iron challenges came out, in which I and others pointed out why it was a bad strategy. I've been telling you in soc chat for the last few months why it was a bad strategy. Didn't you listen to any of that?
Click to expand...


Yes, of course dedication should be rewarded ... But I fail to see why MA has yet once again changed the rules (rewards). As I mentioned previously, it would have been fully sufficient to balance the pp missions in order to fit the Caly missions (and if you had to change the current Caly missions, by all means at least keep the attributes the same) ...

And whether or not my strategy is a bad one cannot be assessed tbh. The strategy I had was my own one and build on the purpose that they weren't changed (I wanted to have 100+ in all categories). Once again, MA has taken away the choice for players to play it their way (I intent to grow old with EU, so three years isn't really the longest time span in my book) ...

Anyway, they do what they do and its either adapt or leave (for now I'll be staying). Am just glad I have finished all 100, many 500 and some 1000's to at least gain some attributes before the big nerf.

Angel
 
Nighthawk said:
Again, the problem is that it would become too easy to get tons of attributes. Just imagine when there are a dozen planets or so, all with really easy attribute giving missions... Travel around and kill a few hundred mobs on each, and *bam* you have 100+ in all attributes :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

and?

WOW is constantly evolving and upping skill caps ... MA is doing their best to nerf the hell out of everything. Instead of slowing skill gain at least twice so far, they should have kept it as it is, introduced new weapons that maxed at level 120 (or more) and let everyone skill the living shit out of this game... For a new player these days it is virtually impossible to get to level 100 (and a time frame of 10 years isn't really anything normal people could be attracted to).

Angel
 
Jimmy B said:
No-one is getting fucked over. Four years ago there were no missions that awarded skill. Now there are. Sure, in the time in between missions gave slightly higher rewards. But they also required the monotony of mindlessly grinding through 16600 mobs before you got to a worthwhile reward. I prefer it the new way tbh.
Click to expand...

For those that chose to work on all missions at the same time and not focus solely on one mob until that chain is finished this re-balance is fucking them over. How do they finish the 5k and 10k missions on all of them in only a few months?:dunce: Not finishing them leaves them short on skill rewards since all the 10k rewards are being distributed to the lower levels. That is exactly what Charlie had told us was not going to happen. He said that each level of the mission chain would get the reward it deserved and some of the 10k mission rewards could be smaller or larger then they currently are. Were any of them larger?:dunce:
 
Moonbiter said:
And those talking about other planets.. Let's talk numbers again. Currently there are mission giving attributes only on Arkadia, and only 3 of each attribute. Neither RT (disregarding the fluke), nor NI, nor Cyrene has any attribute giving missions to my knowledge. So i don't see how you can "travel around and get 100+ in attributes", maybe it will change in the future.
Click to expand...

The Papoo mission chain on NI gives +1 agility and Cyclops in Ancient Greece gives +1 stamina. And you know, that covers a large portion of missions NI has anyways. No developers, no missions.

Cyrene is I believe deliberately holding back missions until their hard launch and have said as much.
 
Nighthawk said:
So... why not go via other mobs, simply?

Daikiba Young has 30 hp and 14 dmg.
Daikiba Mature has 70 hp and 16 dmg.
Daikiba Old has 90 hp and 16 dmg.
Argonaut Scout (current) has 250 hp and 30 dmg.
Argonaut Young has 300 hp and 20 dmg.

So the issue would be bridging the gap between for example Daikiba Old and Argonaut Young, 90-300 health mobs.

In that gap we have (even if making sure the damage is not too much higher either) several maturities of for example Bristlehog, Caudatergus, Combibo, Cornundacauda, Cornundos, Exarosaur, Faucervix, Foul, Gradivore, Kerberos, Merp, Molisk, Mourner, Plumatergus, Prancer, RipperSnapper, Sabakuma, Snablesnot, Snarksnot, Traeskeron...

Several of those (Bristlehog (altho mixed), Cornundacauda, Foul, Merp, Molisk, RipperSnapper, Traeskeron) has missions as well. Really no lack of mobs to hunt just because they up the scouts a bit in health.
Click to expand...

Really...?

Must be a trauma of my first years... foul and merp, they still scare the shit out of me, after spending weeks trying to get to the next tp... guess I have been conditioned to run away when I hear then :)
 
Talania said:
Not finishing them leaves them short on skill rewards since all the 10k rewards are being distributed to the lower levels. That is exactly what Charlie had told us was not going to happen. He said that each level of the mission chain would get the reward it deserved
Click to expand...

Here is the only related post I found from Charlie about that, seems to contradict what you are saying:
Charlie|Calypso said:
All missions will be counted as individual missions, this means that there will no longer be an accumulated reward for 16600 on the final stage. It will, as you describe in your example be a reward based on the kills in each mission. This does not affect bronze missions since they are only one stage. If someone is on the 10k stage that person has received the attribute rewards from the earlier stages that may not be there after the change, so it depends a bit on if you value skills more than attributes.
Click to expand...
 
Nighthawk said:
Here is the only related post I found from Charlie about that, seems to contradict what you are saying:
Click to expand...

"If someone is on the 10k stage that person has received the attribute rewards from the earlier stages that may not be there after the change, so it depends a bit on if you value skills more than attributes."


Maybe Charlie needs to see that and rethink the timeline he is doing for the re-balance date?:scratch2:

That is what I was referring to. Charlie implied that the rewards would not change that much for the 10k missions. Just the attributes. Now he shows us the new rewards only three weeks before the re-balance..........:mad:
 
Nighthawk said:
So... why not go via other mobs, simply?

Daikiba Young has 30 hp and 14 dmg.
Daikiba Mature has 70 hp and 16 dmg.
Daikiba Old has 90 hp and 16 dmg.
Argonaut Scout (current) has 250 hp and 30 dmg.
Argonaut Young has 300 hp and 20 dmg.

So the issue would be bridging the gap between for example Daikiba Old and Argonaut Young, 90-300 health mobs.

In that gap we have (even if making sure the damage is not too much higher either) several maturities of for example Bristlehog, Caudatergus, Combibo, Cornundacauda, Cornundos, Exarosaur, Faucervix, Foul, Gradivore, Kerberos, Merp, Molisk, Mourner, Plumatergus, Prancer, RipperSnapper, Sabakuma, Snablesnot, Snarksnot, Traeskeron...

Several of those (Bristlehog (altho mixed), Cornundacauda, Foul, Merp, Molisk, RipperSnapper, Traeskeron) has missions as well. Really no lack of mobs to hunt just because they up the scouts a bit in health.
Click to expand...



There's a mission on Bristlehog?
 
goodgrief999 said:
Well done for all the work, I'm a bit tired ATM and confused; I have 4.9k to go for 16.6k Atrox. This means under the new system I'm going to lose around 50ped TT of evade?
Click to expand...
Hmm, didn't get a direct answer; it seems my position is the only bad/losing position to be in. Ironic, I've had a break and didn't know the system was changing. The new system DOES look better thought through and balanced, just a bit unlucky to get caught out like I am.
EDIT: ROFL no way am I gonna grind thru nearly 5k baby trox before the change :)
 
sighlentz said:
There's a mission on Bristlehog?
Click to expand...

Mission Clear The Area requires you to kill 200 animals within a certain area. The mobs in this area includes Bristlehog and Araneatrox (why I said it was mixed) and the mission gives +1 psyche and a choice of some MF skills.
 
Charlie|Calypso said:
No, this is not necessarily a "nerf" to all missions.

In general there will be a heavier focus on skill rewards rather than attributes, or mission tokens.
All missions will have their Nova Fragment rewards replaced with skill rewards. Skill rewards will be calculated in a way that will take into account the actual difficulty of the creature rather than just its health.

In the end this means that some missions will have their rewards increased while others will get decreased.

Also, this is a MindArk decision that all planet partners has to follow, but I do believe that skill rewards is in most cases, at least to low/mid level players much more valuable than attributes or Mission tokens. Also I know many are hesitant to complete missions that reward attributes because they want to get their attributes high before earning any through missions. This can actually prevent new players from reaching higher attribute levels because they gained a lot of points from missions while their attributes where still easy to obtain through normal activity.
Click to expand...


This is what I was talking about. Charlie said that some mission rewards may increase and some may decrease. Did any of the mission rewards increase?:scratch2:

From what I see the reward was reduced in total for the full mob chain on each Iron....
 
Talania said:
This is what I was talking about. Charlie said that some mission rewards may increase and some may decrease. Did any of the mission rewards increase?:scratch2:
Click to expand...

They certainly did. For example the missions to kill 500 or 5000 Araneatrox, Argonaut, Armax, Atrox, Droka, Feffoid, Foul, Hiryuu, Merp, Molisk and Warriors previously gave Nova Fragments and now give attributes and skills instead.

I have not really compared all missions that gave skills and/or attributes before rebalance to the new rewards to see the difference there though.


For a full mission chain it depends what you value I guess, one example below:

Araneatrox Mission Chain Total Reward (old):
+ 3 Attributes (1 Agility, 1 Psyche, 1 Stamina).
+ 1250 Nova Fragments.
+ 110PED Evade (or unknown Dodge, probably equal or just a bit lower?).

Araneatrox Mission Chain Total Reward (new):
+ 5.3 attributes (0.65 Agility, 2.5 Intelligence, 0.75 Psyche, 0.4 Strength, 1 Stamina).
+ 67.19PED skills (Evade, Dodge or Support Weapon Systems).
or
+111.35PED skills (Evade, Dodge or Support Weapon Systems).
 
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Nighthawk said:
They certainly did. For example the missions to kill 500 or 5000 Araneatrox, Argonaut, Armax, Atrox, Droka, Feffoid, Foul, Hiryuu, Merp, Molisk and Warriors previously gave Nova Fragments and now give attributes and skills instead.

I have not really compared all missions that gave skills and/or attributes before rebalance to the new rewards to see the difference there though.
Click to expand...

Again? Seriously?

Man, get a calculator and do some simple addition. Skill rewards got distributed among the chain, but in each that i have looked at, total has decreased compared to pre-change values.

And as already outlined in my previous post, total value of attributes which are possible to gain has been halved in most cases (except from stamina which suffered the least.)
 
Charlie|Calypso said:
Hiryuu
100:
0.22 PED Rifle skill.
0.22 PED Handgun skill.
0.07 PED Melee Combat skill.

500:
1.08 PED Rifle skill.
1.08 PED Handgun skill.
0.34 PED Melee Combat skill.

1000:
2.15 PED Rifle skill.
2.15 PED Handgun skill.
0.69 PED Melee Combat skill.

5000:
8.19 PED Rifle skill and 10 Intelligence Tokens.
8.19 PED Handgun skill and 10 Intelligence Tokens.
2.6 PED Melee Combat skill and 10 Intelligence Tokens.
10.75 PED Rifle skill.
10.75 PED Handgun skill.
3.44 PED Melee Combat skill.

10000:
15.09 PED Rifle skill and 25 Stamina Tokens.
15.09 PED Handgun skill and 25 Stamina Tokens.
4.79 PED Melee Combat skill and 25 Stamina Tokens.
21.5 PED Rifle skill.
21.5 PED Handgun skill.
6.88 PED Melee Combat skill.
Click to expand...

Why do us Meleers get less skill. Yes I can skill Hiryuu on 80% melee, All i have to do is get one shot at the mob to bring it to me. But yet 1/3rd the skill?????

Meleers want to know
 
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