Question: Space People: How would you like to see Space develop over the next twelve months?

With 2013 not far away now, I was wondering what those people who primarily base themselves in space were hoping for with its development over the next twelve months. I'm not interested in "space sucks" comments and the like from people who rarely use/have never used it, BTW.

For me, I'd like space to be split up to give it more vastness. My thought is to have four quadrants, all very remote from each other. Within these quadrants there would be systems. One of these systems would be space as we currently know it, with all the known planets, but there would be other systems too.

I would set things up with each system being traverseable with all craft but it requiring a huge amount of time to do so - for example, maybe 10 minutes to warp to another system in the same quadrant, but several hours to warp to a system in another quadrant. Meanwhile, a quad-taxi might take maybe four hours to traverse the emptiness of space between two adjoining systems in the same quadrant, but maybe many days to go quadrant to quadrant.

And once at these other systems/quadrants what would we find?

New space mobs is one obvious answer. Maybe the ability to mine small asteroids. With perhaps otherwise rare resources. Maybe new enemies with technology to steal and exploit.

Also, the ability to place a new planet remote from everyone else could be an attraction. I think I read that it had been shelved now, but Planet Michael's developers may not have been best pleased with Calypso's ubers turning up to slaughter everything in sight if I remember an interview with one of its dev team correctly.

My thoughts might all be fantasy, knowing MAs speed of system development, but what would you like to see in space in the next year?

Everything mentioned in the 'official' storyline would be nice. There's a bunch of space places and fleets mentioned that are not in game yet... where's the Mars Space Base?

Some place to do various 'activities' in the professions would be neat too.... Some mining planet surrounded by an asteroid field that you have to manually maneuver through that's in pvp zone in middle of space would be interesting... sort of a 'rig' for space and then open up areas in space outside of that area as non-pvp

Where is the 'home planet' of the 'aliens' on the asteroid?

Personally, I would like to see each planet have it's own system... With some kind of warp gates between (warp capable ships would be able to bypass the gates and go directly from planet-to-planet).

I would love to see this: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?233494-A-Space-Proposal


And some of this: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/wishlist/200508-motherships-space-part-2-suggestions.html


And then it would be great to see true seamless space, with a realistic physics engine to actually decide dmg based on where an object is hit and also evaluate if the objects functionality will be impacted by this and how much. This could be a spacecraft just as well as an avatar or npc.
It would be awesome to look from the inside of an spacecraft out into the vastness of space and actually being able to watch what is happening outside - from asteroids and spacemobs up to the dogfights between other spacecrafts, it would add a great deal to the space experience if maximum speed caps would be replaced by relative speeds and acceleration values and if fuelconsumption would be based on how strongly someone is accelerating.
I really would love to see space being expanded vastly in size and robots becomming a real thread in the universe, with some added space storyline/continuous space event to actually fly to akbal cimi and challenge the robots / robot fleets 'at home' in their system and down planetside.
Im looking forward to the addition of mechs and them being used in various space fight scenarios as well - be it fights over lucrative asteroids with valuable mining ressources or in defence / offence of spacecrafts as part of commando units that go out to either capture other ships or defend the own - onboard spacefights would be awesome.

I would love to see all objects in space being massive and damage being possible not just through shooting but also by hitting / flying into something else just by mass and speed of the crashing objects/spacecrafts.
And i would love to see shields and a shield engineer profession for space as well as propulsion engineers with the abiltiy to extend healthy operational levels of shipengines and needing those engineers to exceed the normal limits and to repair occuring unavoidable damages.
I would love to see ships getting resized to actually reflect their proper dimensions - the Ringthorne mothership planetside is 2.2km in length while the space version of motherships is alot smaller - increasing the mothership size in space would allow for fighters to actually fly around the ship launching short range attacks requiring mothership crews to launch own fighters for defence to make up for the slow tracking of the huge mothership guns.
The current small size of motherships is becomming a very noticeable issue when on a serious hunt with over 100 mobs trying to get to the ship at once - they will block each other as there just isnt enough space for all of them in close range - with a larger ship there would be more space for ongoing fights more inline to the powerlevel that an upgraded mothership actually holds in itself.
I would love to see choice of weaponry in space combat - a variation of mountable guns to be used on sleipnirs and quads as well as various gun turret modifications for motherships as well as the final implementation of torpedos.

So many ideas, so many already submitted via support case... i might add more in here later on

To get my moan over as quickly as possible: they will do what they will do on the galactic timescales to which we are accustomed...

What I'd like to see:

mining and crafting in space.

Motherships should have trading station functions too, for both selling and buying.
Some space materials, ores etc should be lootable, others not, or percentage lootable only, maybe after refining on a mothership/privateer?
Motherships should also be boardable by pirates, with possibly various cargo bays lootable and tp points the pirates must reach to escape with loot. Different levels of storage safety maybe for the captain and crew depending on ship health.
Repair stations should be more complicated than now, with ship health split up over many more terminals (like those which can be attacked and repaired during events).
Ships would need to be redesigned to be more like the instances/events and sensors should be improved at all levels (space radar range upgradeable, for example).

Space should have crafting areas for ship improvement modding and crafting. Maybe these could be territorially owned like LAs, with different crafting permissions in different places and according to the size of the bases.

Some areas of space should definitely be safe areas, and bigger than just around the stations - maybe certain space lanes too!

Privately owned instances - some areas of space may have space area rights attatched to them in some way - either timed and charged admission (keys L and unL available from space area owner?).

so, just a few ideas there.

Further advice: please don't bother to invest resources in development, dear MA, if the result is instances as empty as the feff cave and the mini-robot beacon I can't access alone unless someone is standing at the entrance, and events as empty as the fort events! These are things I have loved in the past on my home planet, but no longer do. I hope the positive parts of this post have shown people that I do care about what is possible! Make it so!

Just one other thought from myself on this.

If MA can do one thing and one thing only with space, can they please see to it that when I enter the hangar area of a Mothership I'm not left waiting 30 seconds or more for the floor to appear while every other detail spawns (glass panels on walkways, for example). Its a most annoying flaw with this part of the Mothership.

Well, maybe change quad speed or space distance so that it takes only 25 mins to get between planets.

Another change that I guess would be "pro-PVP" would be to make some sort of story/plot change such that all of space is infected with some virus, such that innoculations are requierd. This way, people PVP'ing in space would always get loot when killing someone.

A change that would be "anti-PVP" that I've thought of in recent months would be to make loot in Space be %TT rather than all lootables. It would help to aid "unwary travellers who just forgot they were carrying loot or who need to travel in space and do not wish to PVP". Also it would sincerely help people who are risking 10-50k tt of lootables just because they're not able to sell their stuff on their planet (thus forcing them to go through PVP). (IMHO: no one should be forced to go into PVP unless MA decides that PVP is no longer optional).

So the change would be %TT looted: So if you were carrying 60k total loot, a pirate would get 20 %... so you'd get to keep 80 % after reviving, divided evenly among the stackbles (so 20% of each lootable stackable).

I would love to see a new crafted space craft. Carries just 1 person, moves much faster than a quad, can not carry loot, and has no guns...call it a personal travel craft or something, just a vehicle people can use to fly between planets faster, and with out pvp hassle, when travel is the only concern. This should not affect Mother ships business as loot would still mostly travel by MS, but would get people a way to visit other planets with out harassment at he hands of pirates..

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And just for fun...

I think the owners of NI should create a death-star like ship that requires lots more resources than a MS to upgrade. Allow the fully staffed and upgraded deathstar the ability to Destroy the planet NI

seriously though, Auction the deathstar planet killer off to the highest bidder, with the prices mother ships, land areas, and ahhh the egg sell for it should demand a very large $$$ price tag.

Design it so after the planet is destroyed, it turns into a huge debris field of asteroids, and the death star becomes the new "NI location"

Release blue prints of a personal mining ship, that can be used to mine the asteroid field, and/or large mining tools for mother ships.

Allow people to mine the asteroid field, tax it, give the owner of the death star a slice and the owner of NI a slice.

SOTO: could be old NI items found floating in the debris. Quest NPC's and important things could "evacuate" to the death star and be located there.

NI just became fun and profitable (for the owners).......

I hope they remove Log off and start storing lot in mothership while players offline.

you really think they would do that? I hope not would be the final straw that kills EU I think. (at least for me), unless of course they release a (L) mother ship affordable for the common man.

Farmer Smurf said:

you really think they would do that? I hope not would be the final straw that kills EU I think. (at least for me), unless of course they release a (L) mother ship affordable for the common man.

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Check space part in the 2013 roadmap that was published - we may not have details yet but it was stated officially that mindark will remove the current ways of bypassing space.
Making travels secure will soon be the job of the players taking place within the game and not on a webpage.

John B Knight said:

Check space part in the 2013 roadmap that was published - we may not have details yet but it was stated officially that mindark will remove the current ways of bypassing space.
Making travels secure will soon be the job of the players taking place within the game and not on a webpage.

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Yes. This game should be real for all peoples. Just wonder if you mine and get nothing out of it, or lets say you hunting and getting only 2% lot.
In feature if you will want to travel safe you should choose lets say 200k SI ship instead of like 70-50k SI. The si been made to defend from threats and not bypass them by loging out.

John B Knight said:

Check space part in the 2013 roadmap that was published - we may not have details yet but it was stated officially that mindark will remove the current ways of bypassing space.
Making travels secure will soon be the job of the players taking place within the game and not on a webpage.

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removing current ways, and having NO ways are not quite the same thing, I have a little faith left in MA that they will not require us to give control and trust to other human players with our money...as that's just a disaster waiting to happen.

however if I am wrong who wants to buy 24 clds?

Farmer Smurf said:

removing current ways, and having NO ways are not quite the same thing, I have a little faith left in MA that they will not require us to give control and trust to other human players with our money...as that's just a disaster waiting to happen.

however if I am wrong who wants to buy 24 clds?

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While you are right in regards to my words, you will see its very much the same thing in regards to mindarks wording. Let me quote Bjorn for you from the 'State of the universe thread:

Bjorn|MindArk said:

Somehow the section about space development was inadvertently omitted from the State of the Universe Address. Apologies for any confusion or panic this ommission may have caused. Space is definitely part of our development roadmap for 2013, rest assured.

I have added the following section to the Entropia Universe Buzz article-

Space
In the State of the Universe Address 2012, we mentioned plans for expanding and improving space. Several other projects received higher priority in 2012, resulting in the plans for space development being pushed forward to mid-2013. The early focus will be on addressing several issues that currently allow for practically risk-free travel between planets. Space combat and weapons will also be adjusted to improve hunting space creatures and ship to ship PVP combat. Towards the end of the year, we hope to implement several completely new features to space, perhaps even space mining.

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I think its very obvious that mindark doesnt want 'risk-free' traveling, it certainly will be player responsibilty to provide secure passage - thats what the whole spacecraft upgrade and crew concept was developed and implemented for.

I agree, they are working to remove "risk free" travel. However that does not mean by default they will expect us to trust our cargo to the control of another avatar (ms owner) as suggested by SpaceUnion.

SpaceUnion said:

I hope they remove Log off and start storing loot in mothership while players offline.

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I think the whole recent drama with goldy shows how open to abuse that system could or would be..

edit: however a LOT of changes lately make no sense, and I could be very wrong..and it could be their intent to make it even easier for "pirates" to steal our loot...in which case I may need to sell out..

I'd like to see "T" work in space again

I'd like to see:

• a lot more interesting things to explore in space
• more ships to choose from (100 to 2k ped price)
• return of the hermits
• all places accessible with a quad in reasonable times (two hours, max.... nothing stupid like taking a week to fly between planets)
• Things to do in non-PVP areas
• Storage on each station (not connected to each other)
• Ship upgrades including extra speed and personal warp drive
• more features to mothership/privateer deed (allow automatic subscription maintenance, set privileges like repair access without warp, etc.... talk to MS owners to see what they want)
• rear-deployed anti-pirate defensive weapons
• 3D space map and ability to set waypoints at other Z axis levels

The problem with removing the Log Off in space is that space combat is completely unbalanced as it is. Any person traveling on a mothership with stackables would be a target and a fool.
When we had that recent incident where the Dreadnaught attacked the Kronan and we went out and blew it up, we took out a ship with 80k SI in a matter of seconds. It's very easy to do if you know how.
Even with the system in place as it is, we could take out any mothership in the game before the passengers had a chance to log off with their stackables.

In order to be safe without Log Off, you'd need an SI in excess of one million, with a full crew to repair. The problem is that you are limited to only 50 people on the ship. So even if you were only carrying one person, you could only have a crew of 49. It's simply not enough, the guns have no range, and the repair tools arent big enough to overcome a skilled attack.

The only thing that is keeping passengers safe right now is that the pirates aren't very good at attacking, and they don't want to risk that much ammo taking a chance that the hardcore players are logged off already.

If logoff is removed, every noob and his dog would be camping every safe zone in EU, waiting for any MS to depart. It will be the biggest mistake MA ever made, and they've made lots of mistakes.

Fishface said:

The problem with removing the Log Off in space is that space combat is completely unbalanced as it is. Any person traveling on a mothership with stackables would be a target and a fool.
When we had that recent incident where the Dreadnaught attacked the Kronan and we went out and blew it up, we took out a ship with 80k SI in a matter of seconds. It's very easy to do if you know how.
Even with the system in place as it is, we could take out any mothership in the game before the passengers had a chance to log off with their stackables.

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Its very likely to assume that mindark will fix certain space pvp issues before removing logged out transport of stackables.
Your claim however that you could blow up any ship in current space is nonsence - the dreadnought has 64k SI not 80 as you say and there were one pilot and one gunner onboard (no repaircrew) when the whole efa fleet attacked them - plus they actually waited for your fleet to come in and fight.
As you may know a warping in spacecraft can be predicted by its warptunnel that already shows when initiated - this means that any other spacecraft that you are trying to warp uppon has enough time to fly out of a possible fleets shooting range - this fact alone makes it currently impossible for a fleet to warp in and blow up what they want reducing the fleets danger level to a theoretical value in current space.
In case of a chasing out of another ship out of bluezone, the other ship could work down the weak ships of such a fleet and redock until the fleets powerlevel is weak enough for a secure departure, there is lots more to spacecombat and security in space then just the theoretical maximum firepower of statically positioned ships.

However what a fleet is very well capable of is increasing its own defence level through merged departures and synchronized operations.

John B Knight said:

Its very likely to assume that mindark will fix certain space pvp issues before removing logged out transport of stackables.
Your claim however that you could blow up any ship in current space is nonsence - the dreadnought has 64k SI not 80 as you say and there were one pilot and one gunner onboard (no repaircrew) when the whole efa fleet attacked them - plus they actually waited for your fleet to come in and fight.
As you may know a warping in spacecraft can be predicted by its warptunnel that already shows when initiated - this means that any other spacecraft that you are trying to warp uppon has enough time to fly out of a possible fleets shooting range - this fact alone makes it currently impossible for a fleet to warp in and blow up what they want reducing the fleets danger level to a theoretical value in current space.
In case of a chasing out of another ship out of bluezone, the other ship could work down the weak ships of such a fleet and redock until the fleets powerlevel is weak enough for a secure departure, there is lots more to spacecombat and security in space then just the theoretical maximum firepower of statically positioned ships.

However what a fleet is very well capable of is increasing its own defence level through merged departures and synchronized operations.

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And in the case of pulling a ship out of warp with a warp mine in the middle of nowhere, with a crew and a fleet sitting there waiting for you to arrive, your ship is doomed. The 64k SI lasted only seconds against only half the EFA fleet, and that was without quad support. Try slowboating from the space mine to the safe zone with a full attack going.
If you are hoping that they remove logging off in space, you are deluding yourself. Space travel will be dead.

Fishface said:

And in the case of pulling a ship out of warp with a warp mine in the middle of nowhere, with a crew and a fleet sitting there waiting for you to arrive, your ship is doomed. The 64k SI lasted only seconds against only half the EFA fleet, and that was without quad support. Try slowboating from the space mine to the safe zone with a full attack going.
If you are hoping that they remove logging off in space, you are deluding yourself. Space travel will be dead.

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Spacemines are another issue in current space that needs to be fixed, in their current stage they are far less powerfull then they were meant to be, even thought they got a longer activity time then mentioned in their description - there is ways to avoid them.
But even if caught there is still a ships flightvector which can be adjusted to make it for the larger part of an awaiting spacefleet hard to follow and even harder to keep most of their guns in range.

Fishface said:

taking a chance that the hardcore players are logged off already.

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And after a change where there is even a 0.00001% chance of getting looted none of these will be seen traveling anyways It will basically kill space travel since most people do not want to risk their money in lootable zones. Just see how many people that are using the planetside pvp zones and you get the idea..

The question is, is it worth it?

Maybe you could get through an attack 99% of the time.
The issue is that lucky number 100 when everyone on the ship is looted. Each potential passenger will always wonder "is this the time when I will get looted for tens of thousands of ped in loot".
And in that case, they simply won't fly. It's not worth the risk.

Talk to the passengers. See what their view are. Most of them that I've talked to have said the exact same thing. Space travel will be dead. Nobody wants to have to leave their ores at risk when traveling. I know I wouldn't.

Unless you plan to give some sort of travel insurance, nobody will take the risk. It would be much safer to take a quad.

Fishface said:

The question is, is it worth it?

Maybe you could get through an attack 99% of the time.
The issue is that lucky number 100 when everyone on the ship is looted. Each potential passenger will always wonder "is this the time when I will get looted for tens of thousands of ped in loot".
And in that case, they simply won't fly. It's not worth the risk.

Talk to the passengers. See what their view are. Most of them that I've talked to have said the exact same thing. Space travel will be dead. Nobody wants to have to leave their ores at risk when traveling. I know I wouldn't.

Unless you plan to give some sort of travel insurance, nobody will take the risk. It would be much safer to take a quad.

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People will adapt as they always do, either handing their stackables to someone else willing to take the risk or by transporting smaller amounts more often to spread out the risk - which will increase the potential of needed flights in space alot as well.
Noone is forced to transport all his posessions in one go, everywhere in the game its about estimating risk versus reward - its nothing different when you go for a hunt or a large mining or crafting run - you take a risk of having poor TT returns there as well and still count on your experience in regards to those risks and possible markup loot to do ok.
If space gets more dangerous the one thing that will happen for sure is, players teaming up more then they used to working on making their travels even more safe - there will probably be a whole lot less of vip flights with just one pilot onboard though - ships will need a dedicated crew

At least that's what you're hoping for. It would certainly be good for business if people had to take more space flights for the same effect.
In reality, however, people will adapt by choosing one planet that they like the most and staying there. I know a large number of people already that won't travel space at all simply because there is PVP there.
Any time that someone wanted to go to another planet "on holiday", they would simply sell all to a trader before returning to their original planet.
Anything else is wishful thinking.

Fishface said:

At least that's what you're hoping for. It would certainly be good for business if people had to take more space flights for the same effect.
In reality, however, people will adapt by choosing one planet that they like the most and staying there. I know a large number of people already that won't travel space at all simply because there is PVP there.
Any time that someone wanted to go to another planet "on holiday", they would simply sell all to a trader before returning to their original planet.
Anything else is wishful thinking.

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Aye and this trader who is willing to take the risk will then also have to decide wether or not to do this in many or just a few flights and there sure will be alot more traders then before because markups on goods will increase if demands arent filled like they used to.
Demanding more flights to spread out the risk will actually even help to increase the scheduled flights coverage even more for those passengers who dont usually carry stackables

John B Knight said:

Aye and this trader who is willing to take the risk will then also have to decide wether or not to do this in many or just a few flights and there sure will be alot more traders then before because markups on goods will increase if demands arent filled like they used to.
Demanding more flights to spread out the risk will actually even help to increase the scheduled flights coverage even more for those passengers who dont usually carry stackables

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But nobody really cares how the trader is effected. The person it effects is the normal, everyday player. The guy who wants to go test out treasure hunting on Arkadia. The guy who wants to go see what Hell is all about. It will effect all players who like to go from one planet to another planet and still try to get some sort of decent markup on their loot. That will all stop. Some players will even quit the game over it.

I know that I, for one, would never carry stackables in space without a Log Off option. Not many other players would either. It's just not worth the risk.
That's why you hear all of the normal players saying it's a bad idea.
The only ones I've heard saying it would be good have been pirates and John B Knight.

Space 2013 I would like to see;

1. A central safe zone large enough for players to enjoy space and hunt. This zone could be where new players could learn about space and get space skills. Obviously keep PvP aspects in other areas. Make some systems PvP lootable, make it that you must carry 100Ped Lysterium Ingots to enter such areas.

2. Space mob missions

3. More UL ships. Different types, high SI cargo ships, high weapon attack ships, etc

4. Establish a security rating for different PvP zones.
- Low risk Level 1: 100% safe area
- Intermediate risk Level 2: Your ship can be attacked, but not looted
- Medium risk Level 3: Your ship can be attacked and stackable items looted
- High risk Level 4: Your ship can be attacked, stackables, ammo looted and bonus skill points to victor
- Ultra high risk Level 5: These areas of space contain mobs that loot good items and loots and mining resources of high MU. Your ship may be attacked, all stackables and ammo may be looted. Bonus combat skill points to the victor and the Avatar who wins may hold your avatar as captive for 12 hours, unless a randsom is paid.

I would envisage the map to have a very large Level 1 area around a central trading station. The planet partners be surrounded by Level 1 and 2 areas. The Level 1 Trade routes can be won like land grabs and the owners of the routes can set taxes for safe passage if you dont want to use the Level 3 area on either side.
The Level 4 and 5 areas can be on the far reaches of the universe, where you have a chance to loot some very cool stuff, but the risks are high and it would encourage team efforts to protect the loots.



Cheers
Bjorn

Fishface said:

But nobody really cares how the trader is effected. The person it effects is the normal, everyday player. The guy who wants to go test out treasure hunting on Arkadia. The guy who wants to go see what Hell is all about. It will effect all players who like to go from one planet to another planet and still try to get some sort of decent markup on their loot. That will all stop. Some players will even quit the game over it.

I know that I, for one, would never carry stackables in space without a Log Off option. Not many other players would either. It's just not worth the risk.
That's why you hear all of the normal players saying it's a bad idea.
The only ones I've heard saying it would be good have been pirates and John B Knight.

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Yeah hard to understand why not many other spacecraft owners step forward - backing the initial space concept of mindark and how they stated they want it to be - and aim to assure the general public that they will do all in their power to make passenger flights as secure as possible, instead quite some of them cater to utilizing space bypasses running their ships on multiaccounts and shared accounts and then passengers have to wonder why incidents like goldies can occur, because noone cared before about a services and service owners reputation and just was looking on avaiable flights and prices.

Dont tell me passengers were any safer in that scenario, they just had huge luck that it became public information that dreadnought was in control of a pirate before that pirate cashed in on them.

I also cant understand why someone with a weak ship would tell passengers at an atmosphere docking to log in on their webpage, where pirates can read up on as well - there is so much risk of it going wrong...

In the new scenario players will actually care alot more about the build up reputation of a transport service and the people running it - because they have to.

John B Knight said:

In the new scenario players will actually care alot more about the build up reputation of a transport service and the people running it - because they have to.

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or fuckit and stay on one planet.. Infact, even now with 100% safe flight many dont bother to do it because of the pvp aspect. Imagine how it would be if there was a tiny chance of getting looted...