FYI: Player's Notes vol. 1 - Hunting Loot Mechanics

Stefan, what is the lowest tt loot you can get from a longtooth? (Assuming its not a no loot or novas)

Im guessing, 6 ped ish?
 
Unfortunately I haven't figured out a way to trigger the multipliers, although I have noticed that it seems to help if a lot of other people are hunting the same mob at the same time; and if you have a higher dps relative to the average.

Noticed this as well. The only way this makes sense is if the mob or area has a pool, and multiplier X is only activated when sufficent PEDs are in the pool. The multiplier then subtracts the PED from the pool, which disallows anyone else multiplier X (or higher) until the level has been reached. Naturally you have a higher chance of cashing in on the multiplier with higher DPS, much like you have a higher chance of killing a mob within a group if you have higher DPS.

Personally I'm against the idea of any form of loot pool since it seems needlessly complicated; but a lot of findings seem to suggest it.
 
Noticed this as well. The only way this makes sense is if the mob or area has a pool, and multiplier X is only activated when sufficent PEDs are in the pool. The multiplier then subtracts the PED from the pool, which disallows anyone else multiplier X (or higher) until the level has been reached. Naturally you have a higher chance of cashing in on the multiplier with higher DPS, much like you have a higher chance of killing a mob within a group if you have higher DPS.

Personally I'm against the idea of any form of loot pool since it seems needlessly complicated; but a lot of findings seem to suggest it.

This is a possibility, however what could also be happening is a "list based" multiplier set; eg:

1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3.5,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3.5,1,1,1,1,10,1,1,1,1 etc.

With more hunters in an area, that list would be ran through at a quicker pace, therefore the illusion of "more" multipliers would just be a combination of luck and listpace (i.e. you're just happening to hit the multipliers more often than others).
 
Does Land Tax deduction skew the globals minimum/max data a bit?
 
What's bothering me though is this: if the minimum 'global' for a Longtooth (numbers from your original post) is ~59.5 PEDs, and the minimum multiplier is 3.5x, that means it is not possible to get a multiplier for any loot lower than the cost to kill, right?

Meaning all globals should be discrete values unless either: the multipliers are random floating values starting at 3.5x, or an additional random TT is added to the loot after the multiplier has been applied.

Essentially, yes that's correct. The way I am currently looking at it there is a discrete and very large gap between the max loots received under normal hunting conditions and the smallest possible mini/multiplier.. To answer the second part, no there wouldn't be discrete global values as seemingly anything over the minimum multiplier seems a possiblility at this point. So in other words if there is a 3.5x minimum multiplier, there can be a 3.56x, 3.57x, 3.6x etc etc. multipliers applied.. If we dug further into global values we might find "global ranges" or loot slots to use the old references.. At this time i havent gotten that far yet though :laugh:

Stefan, what is the lowest tt loot you can get from a longtooth? (Assuming its not a no loot or novas)

Im guessing, 6 ped ish?

Using my original formula in the OP it would be.. 4890(hp)/300(hp per ped)*10(10% min loot)= 2.282 min loot on LT

Using my current seemingly more accurate formula i have derived from Scorch's tool would be..

4890(hp)/235(hp per ped)*14(14% min loot on cost to kill) = 2.913 min loot form a LT

Does Land Tax deduction skew the globals minimum/max data a bit?

This is a good question, and I would guess that theoretically yes it would, although you likely wouldn't notice it unless we did indeed test this..

This is one of many reasons I am finding it fascinating looking at the loot balance from the low end (2.35 eco) than the original high end (3.0 eco).. If the max loot is derived from the damg done on a 2.35 eco (235 hp per ped) and we are all mostly hunting in the 2.8-2.9 eco range, a lot of things, such as hunting on taxed lands, fap, armr decay, weapon choice and things like this are truly on the player.. all we essentially have to do is not dip below that 2.35 eco when its all said and done.. I imagine the 2.35 eco line is roughly the 50% return basin if you will.. In other words if you really did go out hunting with a lower eco than that, you very likely might seeing sub 50% returns often on your worse runs..

008 :cool:
 
Any more updates Mr Bond? Or has Mindark "silenced" you off? ;)
 
008, i must say, i have been reading post after post after post in this category. and none have helped as much as this, recently after finishing my MBA in college i decided to go back and get a quick minor in statistics, and for my finals project due in December, i have decided to use the EU loot system. I have struggled to develop a baseline in which i can base all theories off in order to begin testing actual formulas, and like a gift from the gods, i find this thread, and spent 2 solid days digging through EntropiaLife and making spreadsheets. I can fully verify your statement is true, and i can add to that with the following.

Using an amp, with moderate eco, IS THE ONLY WAY to find the long looked for 2.5x return and surprisingly i have only found it on mobs with over 4k hp. but i have found after conducting a 2 hour a day for 5 days test. that your average probability of a multiplier loot does go from 2%-3% up to 3%-4%, using your base line 100 kills. tested and proven with 5 different rifles across 4 different mobs.

In closing, thank you for giving me some sort of base line to start with. you saved me a month of labor, and about $300 RL money. i gave you 5 stars on this thread, and leave an open invitation any time you want to collaborate on statistics in EU. dont hesitate to reach out. it would be an honor to work on base lining the global loot pool migrations to TT sales algorithm with you. You truly are the first i have met that truly understands what a statistic really is on a perpendicular scale.
 
my experience: loot is based on damage done within borders. Weapons dont matter other as eco, dont forget defense

The reason why blp globals more is because of the higher dps. Its used on bigger mobs.

There really is nothing special in this game other as basic math.

Law of big numbers explains why 99% of the theories is bs.


About gambling:

This game is not gambling because the skill system has influence. Thats only thing that makes it not gambling. Thats official statement btw, too lazy to search.
 
I haven't seen this yet. How did you arrive at that?

I still see 3.5x.
 
Depends on who is killing them. The rings and scopes increase eco beyond 2.95. I'm not ready to say they've adjusted anything yet. My minis are still min 3.5x. But I will keep a look out.

To your point I will only say it is possible. A few of us land owners detected something back in April vu. It is likely they were toying with something. It is one of the reasons why my event format had to change.

Globals are truncated.
 
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Its new eco era :).

Atm my setup is 3.25 eco (including enhancrs break and markup - excluding them its over 3.30). And this is NOT even close to best eco ingame possible now ;).

I think best eco setup is around 3.55-3.60 atm. Ofc its uber toys and gear ;).

Falagor
:bandit:
 
And what setup is that? I can only get 3.46 with imk2 mk2 series and earth shock and 10 acc enhancers and no amp.

I notice most people put stuff in the entropia tracker incorrectly and get higher than normal eco nor does it factor sight and scope decay. Anything higher than 3.3 and it can become a ped leak for ma.
 
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And what setup is that? I can only get 3.46 with imk2 mk2 series and earth shock and 10 acc enhancers and no amp.

I notice most people put stuff in the entropia tracker incorrectly and get higher than normal eco nor does it factor sight and scope decay. Anything higher than 3.3 and it can become a ped leak for ma.

+Perfected ring ;)?

Ah it does not stack yet... then yeah your 3.46 is tops. I forgot stacking is not implemented yet.

But with stacking it will be possible for sure.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Its new eco era :).

Atm my setup is 3.25 eco (including enhancrs break and markup - excluding them its over 3.30). And this is NOT even close to best eco ingame possible now ;).

I think best eco setup is around 3.55-3.60 atm. Ofc its uber toys and gear ;).

Falagor
:bandit:
So you're saying even though you use accuracy enhancers and even including the MU of them your dpp increase?
I've used entropia armory for it and entropedia's weapon compare and everytime i do (use 2000 avg break per slot). My dpp actually decreases... Do you have any logs with proof that this actually increase your dpp with this insane 350% MU?
Is this with the ES armor?
 
So you're saying even though you use accuracy enhancers and even including the MU of them your dpp increase?
I've used entropia armory for it and entropedia's weapon compare and everytime i do (use 2000 avg break per slot). My dpp actually decreases... Do you have any logs with proof that this actually increase your dpp with this insane 350% MU?
Is this with the ES armor?

Yup with EST armor - measured eco with EL including accu enh broken with 350% markup i have 3.25 eco (inclduing all costs).

Without EST (just accu enh) - 3.06

Base dpp (no enh) - 2.96x

Falagor
:bandit:
 
+Perfected ring ;)?

Ah it does not stack yet... then yeah your 3.46 is tops. I forgot stacking is not implemented yet.

But with stacking it will be possible for sure.

Falagor
:bandit:

There is no way they will stack crit%. If they do, they will HAVE to revamp hunting mechanics.
 
There is no way they will stack crit%. If they do, they will HAVE to revamp hunting mechanics.

With the unforeseen so called *'HRM direction' of MA is currently headed in I would not be surprised if MA does apply or in a way stack the Crit %s in an incognito way in some how/way or in some shape/form one day; this is just my opinion/thoughts tho.

*'hunting road map direction' may involve currently now or is slowly implementing further more pet buffs, rings or wearable buffs, MF buffs, pill buffs, armor buffs and on and on with buffers. Still waiting on further Social buffs and/or other buffs that deals with skilling info. Thus, this leads into a revamp (applies to hunting only) which impacts the hunting mechanics/loots in a whole new 'dynamic motive' (D-motive is influentual to the ROI+ for MA).

There are patterns in hunting whether you believe in them or not (even applies to mining in my humble thinking).

This thread has proven the math, data, observations, analysis, stats, and theories "proven" to be on to some very intriguing reads; whether they are accurate or close enough - only MA knows. Interesting thread and appreciate all the insights/ideas/& testers.

All the above is just my 2 Pec.

Edit: Would like further thoughts/insights/ideas of how shared mobs and instances factor in. Do they even apply or they on a different 'angle of approach' in regards to this thread? Thanks in advance.

Cheerz,
Vi
 
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Hah i totally forgot about this thread ;).

There is no way they will stack crit%. If they do, they will HAVE to revamp hunting mechanics.
We will see :).

Falagor
:bandit:

Well now we have up to 100% crit increase stacking from items only.

So currently best you can get is: EST + ares perfected + sight = 60% + 14% + 20% = 94%
Still room for 6% more.
(The Unique Tethys ring that has not droped yet has +15% value but not increaseing crit rate so imo ares perfected is better - but i guess you could reach 95%)

And this does not include +% crit from pills ;) (i am not even sure if i.e. Z + X will stack or no and since there is 250% cap in the "action" section i would geuss they do stack - have nottested though). Total cap for crit value increase is 350%.

----------

Crit percetnage stacks up to 5% from items, up to 10% from pills, total cap 10%. And this does NOT include accuracy enhancers stacking since they have different mechanics than buff :).

So currently highest crit rate is:
- base 2%
- +4% from tier 10
- +2% from crit scope
- +1.2% from ares perfected
= 9.2% crit rate

---------

So uber seutp can now get +94% crit value increase aplied to 9.2% crit rate - and this is ONLY from items - not using any pills.
Both now combined can actually yeld some incredible eco increase :).

Falagor
:bandit:
 
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