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Synthetic Mind Essence

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Dane

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Oct 20, 2012
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I know it was introduced to keep MF costs down and comparable to other combat/healing professions, but is this really the best way for MF?

Wouldn't it have been better to add Force Nexus to the Trade Terminal (remove it from mining?) and set the price so that it would match sweat prices? This would in turn control the price of sweat (I say 5ped/k is nice or you can sweat it on your own for free), it would entice new players to follow the MF route and would also give new players the ability to gain some peds quicker at 5ped/k.

So here's what I was thinking, broken down...

1k Sweat = 5ped
1k Nexus = 5ped (1/2 what it is now, sold from Trade Terminal)

Produces: 10ped ME (used on ALL MF chips)

The only thing I could think that would make this potentially 'bad' is that sales of sweat for under 5ped would make ME cheaper than actual ammo. OR if you wanted to sweat on your own, you're putting the time in to gather the sweat to make ME yourself.

Just food for thought...
 
Dane said:
I know it was introduced to keep MF costs down and comparable to other combat/healing professions, but is this really the best way for MF?

Wouldn't it have been better to add Force Nexus to the Trade Terminal (remove it from mining?) and set the price so that it would match sweat prices? This would in turn control the price of sweat (I say 5ped/k is nice or you can sweat it on your own for free), it would entice new players to follow the MF route and would also give new players the ability to gain some peds quicker at 5ped/k.

So here's what I was thinking, broken down...

1k Sweat = 0,01ped
1k Nexus = 5ped (1/2 what it is now, sold from Trade Terminal)

Produces: 10ped ME (used on ALL MF chips)

The only thing I could think that would make this potentially 'bad' is that sales of sweat for under 5ped would make ME cheaper than actual ammo. OR if you wanted to sweat on your own, you're putting the time in to gather the sweat to make ME yourself.

Just food for thought...
Click to expand...
fixed up your numbers for you, as MA shouldn't care about mu sweat is 1pec/1000 units.

And I for one would just sweat = free skills
then make ME for 5.01ped and get 4,99ped from MA, nice way to profit...
 
Back in the day (2005) when you could sell sweat for 6-7 peds per k, sweating really helped until you could afford to deposit again. I think MA's view point these days, is they've made it cheap for new players to hunt, so there is little need to sweat if you add a small deposit.

That said is it a shame there is little need for sweat now, especially since it is "creature life energy force". Although Mindforce is much easier now to skill than before, I would not want to return to the days of old mind essence to buy and collect to skill MF.

The truth is MA doesn't really want their customers sweating, I think it's a little short sighted, as I might have left the game years ago, if it wasn't for that helping hand with sweat sales back then. But I have my view and MA has their's so there we have it....LOL.

There are some uses for sweat in crafting etc and some even in refining now, although supply of sweat appears to outweigh the demand to use it.

Better use of sweat is often requested but I'm afraid those 'days-gone-by' are now consigned to history, and you're probably better off depositing $20 and see how far you can take your avatar.

On a magical prospective it would be nice if we had this life essence incorportated somehow in a more interesting way, sadly I can't see it happening.

I do look back with fondness, and occasionally still sweat to add a few points to skill count.

Good luck out there.

Rick
 
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To be honest, apart from the many balancing problems... Not sure that the supply of sweat could keep up with demand if all MindForce was made to use it
 
I like having synthetic ME. Without it, the mindforce profession would not have progressed as it has, thus far. ME, vibrant sweat, force nexus... none of those things were looted, ever, when I went out hunting... not sure about you... :dunno: ...unlike explosive projectiles, which ARE looted, and have a generally low market value (personally, I think explosive projectiles should be sold through the TT... but this thread is about mind essence, not explosive projectiles).

Additonally, placing a fixed value on vibrant sweat and selling it from the TT would, in my opinion, destroy Entropia Universe. Why, you ask? There are plenty of new (and old) players who gather sweat and fund their EU experience, at least from the start, by selling that sweat. Cut the middle man (noob) out of the ME equation, and there goes a fair number of our players. Take away a big portion of the new player experience, basically force them to deposit, and you will have a new player attrition rate of 50% or more, within 3 days of them setting foot on their respective planets. (yeah, guess what, new player... you got to do all sorts of cool stuff in the gateway, but now, suck it up... walk around for days on end looking for fruit/rocks, take your chances of not being killed at the oil rig, which is highly unlikely, or put some money in!) Way to make a new player feel like they have a chance.

I do, however, endorse any efforts by MA to make vibrant sweat more useful. They have already started, first on RT, and more recently on Caly, by including vibrant sweat as an ingredient in some of the BP's. The one's I have seen are very small quantities, but it's still a step forward. Next step, craftable mindforce chips that have vibrant sweat in larger quantities, depending upon the chip level/type/etc. (yes, yes... this has been mentioned before, but thought I would plug this wish in here again, as it's somewhat relevant :silly2: )

So, I say "NO" to the idea of adding vibrant sweat and nexus to the TT. While, in theory, it would bump up the price of sweat, the reality is, most ppl just couldn't be bothered going to find a player in Twins selling sweat... they would just buy it from the TT.
 
Coz1969 said:
I like having synthetic ME. Without it, the mindforce profession would not have progressed as it has, thus far. ME, vibrant sweat, force nexus... none of those things were looted, ever, when I went out hunting... not sure about you... :dunno: ...unlike explosive projectiles, which ARE looted, and have a generally low market value (personally, I think explosive projectiles should be sold through the TT... but this thread is about mind essence, not explosive projectiles).

Additonally, placing a fixed value on vibrant sweat and selling it from the TT would, in my opinion, destroy Entropia Universe. Why, you ask? There are plenty of new (and old) players who gather sweat and fund their EU experience, at least from the start, by selling that sweat. Cut the middle man (noob) out of the ME equation, and there goes a fair number of our players. Take away a big portion of the new player experience, basically force them to deposit, and you will have a new player attrition rate of 50% or more, within 3 days of them setting foot on their respective planets. (yeah, guess what, new player... you got to do all sorts of cool stuff in the gateway, but now, suck it up... walk around for days on end looking for fruit/rocks, take your chances of not being killed at the oil rig, which is highly unlikely, or put some money in!) Way to make a new player feel like they have a chance.

I do, however, endorse any efforts by MA to make vibrant sweat more useful. They have already started, first on RT, and more recently on Caly, by including vibrant sweat as an ingredient in some of the BP's. The one's I have seen are very small quantities, but it's still a step forward. Next step, craftable mindforce chips that have vibrant sweat in larger quantities, depending upon the chip level/type/etc. (yes, yes... this has been mentioned before, but thought I would plug this wish in here again, as it's somewhat relevant :silly2: )

So, I say "NO" to the idea of adding vibrant sweat and nexus to the TT. While, in theory, it would bump up the price of sweat, the reality is, most ppl just couldn't be bothered going to find a player in Twins selling sweat... they would just buy it from the TT.
Click to expand...

I never said anything about adding Sweat to the TT. Just Force Nexus.
 
Better make sweat-price 1 Ped/K than 5 Ped/K (and I produce more than I consume) but I dont want to let non-deopsitors profit and let depositors pay for that
 
If we want to make sweat more useful, it's better to use them in BPs or similar.
As some has mentioned, it could also be combined with oil and work as a boosted
fuel for ships in space, where we increase stats with approx5%.
I asked for Synthetic ME long before it came so no, I don't want to lose it again. ;)
 
In pre SME era being mindforcerer was hard, time consuming and costly.
Hard to get any chip, hard to get ME in enought quantity for any serious skilling.
At start we had ME at 400+%, skilled players cud not sweat, only newcomers and even they were capped.
Apart this there were many other reasons why MF users didnt grow much in number.
But basic was just that - cost to use.
All discused and shouted about too high price of sweat but sweat is only part of ME.
Trought time nexus was at 170% to 260% so price of ME cud not be cud down only with lovering price of sweat.
MA, miners and resellers were guilty for unacetable ME price too.
MA and always MA lol. Like nowdays- untill ppl will not give up with enhancers - price of pyrite wont go much down.
MA did cool gift for new year with mery mayhem and damage enhancers at 600% to 700%
MA balance manager as usualy sleep.
I dont think that nexus in TT is good idea because cut minners job, MA need just to spawn enought quantity and keep reasonable MU in that mode.
 
IMHO:

- Projectiles should be a TT item (all weapons have ammo available from TT anyway - why not projectiles?).

- All "new" (upcoming/unreleased/undiscovered) blueprints should use atleast 100 sweat.
 
I could easily imagine having two ME's, SME (from TT) would be 100% damage/heal/whatever effect, while ME (sweat+nexus) would give a boost to the chip effect. Over usage would be prevented by MU much like enhancers are today, ie only used in events and such.
 
The problem with using mind essence as, essentially, ammo was that it meant you were shooting ammo with markup. This inevitably gave you bad eco (although there were other issues that made it even worse). Putting force nexus in the tt machine doesn't solve that issue (unless it was sold for less than it's tt value, which is obviously ridiculous).

I think MA solved the problems with mindforce pretty well tbh.
 
MU on ammo in itself didn't necessarily have give bad eco.
It could be adjusted by ammo use Vs dmg output.

But it would require that the MU was stable and controllable. Which I guess it wouldn't be.

I agree that MA handled it nicely overall.
And MF is generally waaaay more fun, cool and interesting than in the old days.
 
Vedder said:
MU on ammo in itself didn't necessarily have give bad eco.
It could be adjusted by ammo use Vs dmg output.
Click to expand...

MA aren't going to give extra damage for markup though. That's essentially ped out of their pocket. Instead of players paying sweaters, it'd indirectly be MA paying sweaters.
 
Sissi said:
I could easily imagine having two ME's, SME (from TT) would be 100% damage/heal/whatever effect, while ME (sweat+nexus) would give a boost to the chip effect. Over usage would be prevented by MU much like enhancers are today, ie only used in events and such.
Click to expand...

Great idea. ME used to enhance Chips in a similar way that Enhancers do! Simple enough and could help sweat prices as well as give MF a bit more balance.

What do you guys think?
 
Sissi said:
I could easily imagine having two ME's, SME (from TT) would be 100% damage/heal/whatever effect, while ME (sweat+nexus) would give a boost to the chip effect.
Click to expand...

Why not just add a buff chip with that effect, using regular ME (and possibly being crafted using sweat)? Would then also give a boost to Telepath profession, whose only chip atm is the Synchronization chip, which is only good for preventing loss of focus while sweating.
 
Makes me think of this lol:

confession_of_an_exploiter.jpg

View image in gallery​
 
No. I do not want to pay any mu on my ammunition.

Question to the OP: did you ever hunt using Mindforce?

because then you might know/ not know that the major advantage of attack nanochips is their really really low chip decay. Thus, the major share of the cost per use derives from the comparatively high amount of ammo a nanochip burns.

As a result, (any) MU on synthetic mind essence would have the highest possible and most devastating impact on a nanochips eco. It would simply diminish the main adavantage of all nanochips.

So why would anyone that is using Mindforce want that?!
 
Montbertus said:
No. I do not want to pay any mu on my ammunition.

Question to the OP: did you ever hunt using Mindforce?

because then you might know/ not know that the major advantage of attack nanochips is their really really low chip decay. Thus, the major share of the cost per use derives from the comparatively high amount of ammo a nanochip burns.

As a result, (any) MU on synthetic mind essence would have the highest possible and most devastating impact on a nanochips eco. It would simply diminish the main adavantage of all nanochips.

So why would anyone that is using Mindforce want that?!
Click to expand...

I was asking for discussion. I know MF is eco now and balanced but my main concern is the falling price of sweat and the lack of usefulness for Mind Essence. Sure Synch chips and TP chips are useful (at times) but they're not very important. I was wondering if there could be a better use for Sweat and Mind Essence and was trying to formulate a solution using ammunition.
 
Jimmy B said:
MA aren't going to give extra damage for markup though. That's essentially ped out of their pocket. Instead of players paying sweaters, it'd indirectly be MA paying sweaters.
Click to expand...
Hmm... Not sure it costs MA anything, to give out extra dmg. That depends how loot is generated.

Even if the system is made, so it would cost MA to do that, they could easily adjust the general loot accordingly. I'm pretty sure that have knob they can turn up and down. :D
Not sure what other consequences that would have though, and if it'd make things unfair in other areas.
 
Sadly when you see Gally's screen shot above, a few people decided to farm sweat with multi computers to generate income. So as usual with anything good, the few exploiters spoil it for all.

So blame the farmers for distroying something that originally helped new players get going in game.

Becasue of this it's unlikely sweat will ever have real value again. It will remain at levels that require unreasonable about of time to generate a reasonable amount of cash.

That all said Mindforce is better with SME from the TT, and old school ME is still used in TP chips. So need more people to jump than use vehicles.

Rick
 
RickEngland said:
That all said Mindforce is better with SME from the TT, and old school ME is still used in TP chips. So need more people to jump than use vehicles.
Click to expand...

It is also used for Metabolic Acceleration/Inhibition Chips, Health Augmentation, Regeneration Acceleration/Inhibition, etc :)



In my opinion, the best way to get sweat to be used more while allowing MindForce to both keep improvements and grow would be the addition of more buff chips (craftable using sweat) that use Mind Essence.

Personally, I use Metabolic Acceleration a lot, and would probably use it even more if higher level ones were available. Health Augmentation I certainly might start using during special occasions if markup was lower and there was higher level ones available.



EDIT: Hell, I'd support the creation of a Fireworks Mindforce chip crafted using 1000 sweat and 1 stone (of the color the fireworks is supposed to be) just to have some fun ;)
 
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