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sledgehammer

sledgehammer

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Sledge Hammer
I was just thinking about the income for the moon estate that's coming up, and I just realized something I thought was worth discussing. I took MA's word about 9 months ago when they stated categorically that there are no personal loot pools, however....




"Revenue generated through participant activity will be shared with the Moon Manager as follows:

Activity on the moon estate by participants recruited by Moon Manager: 35%
Activity on the moon estate by all other participants: 10%
Activity elsewhere within Entropia Universe by participants recruited by the Moon Manager: 25%"


http://www.entropiauniverse.com/entropia-universe/announcements/moon/


How can this be possible unless there in fact ARE personal loot pools?
 
"Loot Recieved" and "Revenue Generated" are completely different things and have nothing to do with eachother, so not sure what you're thinking here? :scratch2:
 
because one has nothing to do with the other.

No personal loot pool, means that the game isn't keeping track of your day to day losses to give you a huge ATH after a few years of playing.

The moon income means that if you loose x peds a day, that a % of that goes to the owner.

Just because MA's isn't keeping track of out total losses through the years, that doesn't mean they can't see how much you loose during a hunt (or depending on what theory you go for how much armor/fap decay and auction fees you have).
 
The only way they can track revenue generated by an avatar is if they track that avatar's tt returns, and therefore, a personal loot pool must exist. It's not just about how much the avatar spends, but what % that avatar gets back they have to track if they are going to pay the moon owner based on such a percentage.
 
sledgehammer said:
I was just thinking about the income for the moon estate that's coming up, and I just realized something I thought was worth discussing. I took MA's word about 9 months ago when they stated categorically that there are no personal loot pools, however....




"Revenue generated through participant activity will be shared with the Moon Manager as follows:

Activity on the moon estate by participants recruited by Moon Manager: 35%
Activity on the moon estate by all other participants: 10%
Activity elsewhere within Entropia Universe by participants recruited by the Moon Manager: 25%"


http://www.entropiauniverse.com/entropia-universe/announcements/moon/


How can this be possible unless there in fact ARE personal loot pools?
Click to expand...

It just means that all alt-accounts generated by a possible moon manager will run profitable if the average return is higher then 65% - hope mindark has considered this possibility of a respective moonmanager 'employing' avatars ;)
 
sledgehammer said:
The only way they can track revenue generated by an avatar is if they track that avatar's tt returns, and therefore, a personal loot pool must exist. It's not just about how much the avatar spends, but what % that avatar gets back they have to track if they are going to pay the moon owner based on such a percentage.
Click to expand...

The revenue has nothing to do with the loot, the revenue is from the decay and fees. If to avatars get loot or not have nothing to do with the revenue they get. They just need to track how much decay and fees each avatar are spending. And even if the loot was a part of the revenue calculation, it can be done without any personal lootpool.
 
They used to say their revenue stream (ingame, not RL) is part of decay but not all decay, and rest goes
back to the system.
This revenue stream is probably split up in even more parts, and all parts are probably dynamic
depending on where we create the revenue stream, so no fixed values are used.
Some of these parts of revenue stream are probably those you mention.
 
John B Knight said:
It just means that all alt-accounts generated by a possible moon manager will run profitable if the average return is higher then 65% - hope mindark has considered this possibility of a respective moonmanager 'employing' avatars ;)
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. The return rate would have to be significantly higher than 65% for that to happen. The manager is getting 35% of the revenue generated, not 35% of money used on the moon.
 
I believe them saying there is no personal lootpool. Instead, I believe every avatar has his/her own multipliers :yay:
 
Nighthawk said:
No it doesn't. The return rate would have to be significantly higher than 65% for that to happen. The manager is getting 35% of the revenue generated, not 35% of money used on the moon.
Click to expand...

Thanks for correcting me, i was worried there for a moment :ahh:
 
I just wonder: will new avatars considered as "recruited" by moon manager will get less returns (TT returns)?

If answer is yes - then it is obviously not fair (not all avatars are equal)
If answer is no - then its oki but then i have more thoughts about taxes on LAs. My personal opinion would be: its exactly the same with taxes on LAs (so it would mean tax on LA is payed from MA cut at least to some level). Just similar model.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Falagor said:
I just wonder: will new avatars considered as "recruited" by moon manager will get less returns (TT returns)?
Click to expand...

Of course not. The moon manager gets a part of revenue and in return he does marketing for MindArk (and pay the initial price to buy the moon).

Revenue does not have to do with loot.
 
it is a very simple matter.

When an Avatar is created on the moon, or through a moon manager's link, or however it will be set up; that avatar will simply be marked as a "moon avatar". Then ever-after, when ever said avatar decays, or spends, or whatever the exact activities are that cause a profit; a percentage goes to moon manager's account.

Nothing to keep track of, nothing to manage.

Simple. :cool:
 
it just means that moon is treated like a mini-planet... but uh, does that mean that moon has to have it's own support team, etc. like the planets do? I assume not since Mindark will handle the development of the moon, etc... but unless moon has it's own website to recruit, how the heck will moon manager be able to recruit?

Even though Planet Micheal is out, maybe moon walking dance won't be?
 
mastermesh said:
it just means that moon is treated like a mini-planet... but uh, does that mean that moon has to have it's own support team, etc. like the planets do? I assume not since Mindark will handle the development of the moon, etc... but unless moon has it's own website to recruit, how the heck will moon manager be able to recruit?

Even though Planet Micheal is out, maybe moon walking dance won't be?
Click to expand...

ND has entropiamoon.com domain :) Is that a sign?
 
sledgehammer said:
How can this be possible unless there in fact ARE personal loot pools?
Click to expand...

You could have / should have asked the same long ago because there are CLDs and similar planet partner agreements. So nothing new with the moon.

1) MindArk never said that they don't track our results. In fact we know that they can reconstruct them from logs at least. That doesn't prove that your current and future loot is based on past gains or losses as in some type of accounting.

What many people seem to have missed is the part where MindArk explained what they meant by "personal loot pool". Now a lot of people seem to think because there is an pattern of losses and then gains that MindArk lied to us. But all they really said is that this pattern is not generated by accounting your losses / gains in PED and PEC.

2) As we do not know how "revenue" is calculated, neither for CLDs nor for the Planet Partners, there is no reason to assume that revenue isn't simply a % of several factors, item decay, auction fee and so on. There would be no need to track your overall result for that purpose.
 
I think that spendings and loots are separated when it comes to MA-PP accounting.
Player spends 1ped - 95pec goes to loot server, 5pec is distributed to parties. General loot server (be it personal algorithm or other) pays player a jackpot 10.000 peds. But planet partner does not pay that! ta-daaam
 
Nighthawk said:
No it doesn't. The return rate would have to be significantly higher than 65% for that to happen. The manager is getting 35% of the revenue generated, not 35% of money used on the moon.
Click to expand...

revenue generated IS money used on the moon.

we are not talking about PROFIT when speaking about generated revenue, we are simply talking about peds spent.
 
Why is this so hard for people to understand!

You spend 100 ped on the moon (ammo, decay, tp costs, everything). MA takes 10 ped. MA gives 1 ped to the Moon Manager*

Neither MA nor the Moon Manager know or care how much you receive back, that is determined by the loot system which is independent (at least for the most part, undecided about armour and fap) of your costs. Your 90 ped goes into the lootpool for that mob and is available for anyone to loot. IMO the loot system is governed by many factors such as mob hp, regen, with some random inputs thrown in, but that is a whole other debate.

*Numbers and percentages are completely arbitrary, none of us know the true calculations. But this is the simplest and most logical way to design such a system, and therefore most probably the right one.
 
sledgehammer said:
The only way they can track revenue generated by an avatar is if they track that avatar's tt returns, and therefore, a personal loot pool must exist. It's not just about how much the avatar spends, but what % that avatar gets back they have to track if they are going to pay the moon owner based on such a percentage.
Click to expand...

right here is where the thinking goes wrong. the way to track revenue is through expenses, inputs into the system, not the outputs. the % returned is a seperate game mechanism to that which counts inputs. all they have to do then to track players origin is use a flag, say C, A, R, M, etc for each planet.
 
aridash said:
right here is where the thinking goes wrong. the way to track revenue is through expenses, inputs into the system, not the outputs. the % returned is a seperate game mechanism to that which counts inputs. all they have to do then to track players origin is use a flag, say C, A, R, M, etc for each planet.
Click to expand...

Returns must be involved same as spendings. If only spendings would be calculated, then there would be no diference between imkII user and roman purifier user (eco diference )...or wait, maybe there is...nah it can't be....or it is ?..... no diference ?? :D:D:D
 
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