Question: about the permanent effect items?

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

It is about armor part but i am more concerned about buffs the item gives so i place this thread just in "Items" secton.

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I found out yesterday about those new Thorifoid Helmets thing:

Thorifoid Berserker's Helm (L)
Flimsy Thorifoid Berserker's Helm (L)
Superior Thorifoid Berserker's Helm

For everyone who did not hear about them yet - they add permanent buff effect when equiped:
+3% reload time and -50% hp regeneration for Flimsy version
and
+5% reload time and -100% hp regeneration for normal and superior (unlimited) version

I bought one normal (L) version (+5%,-100%) and tested it on using laceraing attack nanochip XI (L). And it actually works as itended. Without it i get 48 attacks/min and with it i get 50 attacks/min so it actually gives that about +5%.

My question is:
has anyone tested this with many other items ingame except weapons that have "reload":

medical tools?
mining tools - does not speed it up...
sweating tool - confirmed that it speeds the tool itself, uknown if it speed the green ray
crafting? (i know its wierd but i already see people at crafting machines wearing those!)
weapons on vehicles?
(@edit) scanner - confirmed that it reduces reload on it
repair tool (sugested by Svarog)? - confirmed that it reduces reload on it
other?

Notice that this is actually great "item" to buff yourself when you are hunting mobs that do not hit you at all (like traeskerons, proterons and few others).

What concerns me is that if this is actually also usefull in other professions:

healer is not getting hit much so this would mean +5% on heal/sec on any healing tool - for free!
miner also is not geting hit much (espetally when vtol mining) - this could add +5% speed both to finder and extractor speed - for free!
sweating in large group - you also not getting hit much - however i do not think it would be very usefull in here unless used in "exploit/bug" places (zeladoth? instances?)
i dunno if it works with "crafting reload" but like i said i have seen people wearing them at crafting machines
if it works also on reload on gun on vehcile when you are wearing this - this would mean pirates can get +5% dps - for free!

As you can see - lots of questions? If anyone has tested any of those scenarios - please answer. I will try and test those slowly but for now i have other things to do.

I leave this thread open for discussion. If you know something for 100% please state it as a fact

.

@edit:
one more thing - are there ANY other items with permanent buff efect (except +run speed on amps)?

Falagor
:bandit:

Svarog · Jul 7, 2013

What do you mean "for free", you still pay 3-5% more decay per minute. Yes, it shifts the market a little but it happens all the time with new items. If these items will be in plenty (they're, but the droprate may be changed), then everyone will get himself one and the overall market will stay the same. If they'll be rare, the MU will even out the added effectiveness.

danimal01 · Jul 7, 2013

I didn't really notice a difference when I had used my gun and fap with the helmet on.

Other items that give "buff" effects are the nanobots (which you can ingest and are crafted from BPs looted from Mind Reavers). They only last for an hour though and they give accuracy, more dmg with crits, or more HP (depending on which nanobot is ingested). These are only useful if you have accuracy/damage enhancers in. The HP one is always useful because it gives +5 HP for an hour. At the current prices the nanobots are though it would be much cheaper to just use damage enhancers fully in a weapon.

~Danimal

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

Svarog said:
What do you mean "for free", you still pay 3-5% more decay per minute. Yes, it shifts the market a little but it happens all the time with new items. If these items will be in plenty (they're, but the droprate may be changed), then everyone will get himself one and the overall market will stay the same. If they'll be rare, the MU will even out the added effectiveness.

For free i mean that there are for example:

medical tool heal enhancers that add heal/sec but are not free - they break.
mining excavator speed enhancers - they also break.

with this helmet euqiped it would be like having 1 heal enahncer or 1/2 excavator enhancer - for free

. Helmet will not break nor decay if properly used (of corse it will decay if you rush into mobs or something).

With +5% dps on vehs or normal weapons i mean its free extra dps because it does not need any form of amping to get extra dps. In this case by "free" i mean that you do not need to buy any extra equipement (like expenisve evil amp) to get +dps boost. Or you don't need dmg enhancers (that would break) to improve your dps slightly. So it is free in this case too.

------------

Tested with scanner - it adds +5% (normal uses - 40 per 2 minutes, with helmet 42 uses).

This sugests i am right and it will reduce reload on healing/mining/sweating tools at least (mayby not on vehs weapons and crafting)

Falagor
:bandit:

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

danimal01 said:
I didn't really notice a difference when I had used my gun and fap with the helmet on.

Other items that give "buff" effects are the nanobots (which you can ingest and are crafted from BPs looted from Mind Reavers). They only last for an hour though and they give accuracy, more dmg with crits, or more HP (depending on which nanobot is ingested). These are only useful if you have accuracy/damage enhancers in. The HP one is always useful because it gives +5 HP for an hour. At the current prices the nanobots are though it would be much cheaper to just use damage enhancers fully in a weapon.

~Danimal

Oki thanks - i was aware of the nanobots - since they are not permanent effect buffs i was not really into them tbh

.

I am looking for any other permanent items atm.

Try testing your weapon shooting in thin air - it actually adds +5%.

Falagor
:bandit:

Rumsponge · Jul 7, 2013

Ok. I guess this is a silly question, but does the regen penalty apply to the a avatar or the mob?

danimal01 · Jul 7, 2013

Falagor said:
Oki thanks - i was aware of the nanobots - since they are not permanent effect buffs i was not really into them tbh .

I am looking for any other permanent items atm.

Try testing your weapon shooting in thin air - it actually adds +5%.

Falagor

Like I said I really don't notice a difference when I'm shooting my weapon... it's already fast so I don't see the difference in shots from 86 shots to 90.3 shots. I'm sure there is more damage being done for "free" and it keeps me from dying less, healing less, killing more etc.. but I still just do not see a difference. It would be nice if it "mod" the stats of a weapon and changed them to orange when said items are equiped.

There is also another helmet out there that was looted and is UNLIMITED. It's gold or something and it adds 1% accuracy if I'm remembering correctly?

~Danimal

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

Confirmed with sweating tool:

2 minutes without helmet - 60 uses
2 minutes with helmet - 63 uses

I was using the sweat tool in thin air so not against mob. So this was just measurment of actual uses of the tool.

I realy have no idea about good test if the helmet actually reduces the time of "green ray".

Nevertheless it IS improving the sweat gathering a bit.

Falagor
:bandit:

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

Rumsponge said:
Ok. I guess this is a silly question, but does the regen penalty apply to the a avatar or the mob?

To avatar

. So it is not good when hunting mobs that hit you. But very usefull when hunting mobs that dont hit you at all.

danimal01 said:
Like I said I really don't notice a difference when I'm shooting my weapon... it's already fast so I don't see the difference in shots from 86 shots to 90.3 shots. I'm sure there is more damage being done for "free" and it keeps me from dying less, healing less, killing more etc.. but I still just do not see a difference. It would be nice if it "mod" the stats of a weapon and changed them to orange when said items are equiped.

There is also another helmet out there that was looted and is UNLIMITED. It's gold or something and it adds 1% accuracy if I'm remembering correctly?

~Danimal

I get ya

. You like to see it explicitly in visible numbers. Well unless your weapon setup is not working with it i can asure you that it adds +5% to your dps

.

I will try to look for that +accuracy helmet you metnioned - thank you

Falagor

Sub-Zero · Jul 7, 2013

If pirates can use this to get 5% more dps any pirate with this helmet on will have a significant advantage over others. Same thing if it works on motherships/privateers.. how rare are these new helmets? And do they decay only if you get damaged? If that's the case, then on motherships you may never decay the helmet and can use an L one for 3-5% extra dps for "free".. :eyecrazy:

danimal01 · Jul 7, 2013

Falagor said:
To avatar . So it is not good when hunting mobs that hit you. But very usefull when hunting mobs that dont hit you at all.

I get ya . You like to see it explicitly in visible numbers. Well unless your weapon setup is not working with it i can asure you that it adds +5% to your dps .

I will try to look for that +accuracy helmet you metnioned - thank you

Falagor

Found it.. and maybe its critical hits increased when you hit a critical instead of accuracy. I have no clue

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?245006-Deathbringer-s-Crown-M

~Danimal

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

Sub-Zero said:
If pirates can use this to get 5% more dps any pirate with this helmet on will have a significant advantage over others. Same thing if it works on motherships/privateers.. how rare are these new helmets? And do they decay only if you get damaged? If that's the case, then on motherships you may never decay the helmet and can use an L one for 5% extra dps for "free"..

Now you see why i ask this questions

. I am really resourceful in cases like this

. Notice that pirate will not decay helmet as well. It is the ship that decays first. Even when destoryed pirate can easily unequip helmet to prevent any decay when beeing shoot floating in space.

danimal01 said:
Found it..

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?245006-Deathbringer-s-Crown-M

~Danimal

Thank you very much +rep

Falagor

Svarog · Jul 7, 2013

For hunting - if you hunt something weak enough that you can sacrifice the head protection, then perhaps you could live without that additional dps, for which you also need to pay with repairing the helm or buying a new L one.

Sub-Zero said:
If pirates can use this to get 5% more dps any pirate with this helmet on will have a significant advantage over others. Same thing if it works on motherships/privateers.. how rare are these new helmets? And do they decay only if you get damaged? If that's the case, then on motherships you may never decay the helmet and can use an L one for 3-5% extra dps for "free"..

How do you imagine that? Do wearing armor protects you from pirates in space?

Repairers of course can repair faster. But gunners can't benefit from it.

Not rare at all so far, at least L ones. Decay only from damage.

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

Svarog said:
For hunting - if you hunt something weak enough that you can sacrifice the head protection, then perhaps you could live without that additional dps, for which you also need to pay with repairing the helm or buying a new L one.

How do you imagine that? Do wearing armor protects you from pirates in space?

Repairers of course can repair faster. But gunners can't benefit from it.

Not rare at all so far, at least L ones. Decay only from damage.

It increases dps in any hunting that mobs do not hit you at all - like traeskerons or proterons.

In space pirate - it is unkown untill someone actually will test it - it may reduce reload time on the gun equiped on ship. If this woudl be the case then pirate has +5% dps.

----

Also you have just said another use for it - faster skilling repairing skill

- good job.

Falagor
:bandit:

Sub-Zero · Jul 7, 2013

Svarog said:
For hunting - if you hunt something weak enough that you can sacrifice the head protection, then perhaps you could live without that additional dps, for which you also need to pay with repairing the helm or buying a new L one.

How do you imagine that? Do wearing armor protects you from pirates in space?

Repairers of course can repair faster. But gunners can't benefit from it.

Not rare at all so far, at least L ones. Decay only from damage.

Well no they do not protect you from pirates per say, but most motherships survive pirate attacks the ones that have active protection so most of the time you won't decay your helmet much at all. Guess not truly "permanent" then. Unless you log out just before ship gets destroyed hehe. Then log in when mothership has been respawned. Don't you get spawned back at the mothership then? Since you never died. :laugh:

Svarog · Jul 7, 2013

Sub-Zero said:
Well no they do not protect you from pirates per say, but most motherships survive pirate attacks the ones that have active protection so most of the time you won't decay your helmet much at all.

It won't decay because it doesn't participate in the battle

In a quad - you're the quad, in a gunner seat - you're the gun, equipment of your avatar doesn't matter so you can't get bonuses from it.

Falagor said:
In space pirate - it is unkown untill someone actually will test it - it may reduce reload time on the gun equiped on ship.

Sure it can be tested and very easily, no need even to go to space and waste ammo - ask someone with a metabolic chip to buff you and see if your quad flies faster

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

Svarog said:
(...)
Sure it can be tested and very easily, no need even to go to space and waste ammo - ask someone with a metabolic chip to buff you and see if your quad flies faster

Actuall it can be tested even easier - just equip gun on quad/vtol and test if it shotos faster. I do not own attachement weapon atm so can't do it but afaik as long you wont be testing in pvp area this will not cost the tester

.

Falagor
:bandit:

Farmer Smurf · Jul 7, 2013

So where do i get one of these sweat improvement helmets? whats the Mu on the street?

I would be game to sweat test this hat.

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

Farmer Smurf said:
So where do i get one of these sweat improvement helmets? whats the Mu on the street?

I would be game to sweat test this hat.

Auction

- i think they drop from some sort of mobs inside those new caves (dunno i have not been there).

Afaik there is no +5% (M) version avaible at auction but there are plenty of +3%: search for "Berserker's"

.

Falagor
:bandit:

Falagor · Jul 7, 2013

Confirmed that it also increases the speed of repairing tools:

RK-5 (L) without helmet - 33 uses during 1 minute
RK-5 (L) with helmet - 35 (nearly 35) uses during 1 minute

I know that 1 minute is not enough but its actually already visible. Anyone who participates in MS repairs could verify this. The 1 minute i was limited with repairing to my Hoverpod mk3 (1min is about 90% of its SI repairing).

I see no reason why healing or mining tools shoudl differ in this matter...

Falagor
:bandit:

Rumsponge · Jul 8, 2013

Falagor said:
Confirmed that it also increases the speed of repairing tools:

RK-5 (L) without helmet - 33 uses during 1 minute

RK-5 (L) with helmet - 35 (nearly 35) uses during 1 minute

I know that 1 minute is not enough but its actually already visible. Anyone who participates in MS repairs could verify this. The 1 minute i was limited with repairing to my Hoverpod mk3 (1min is about 90% of its SI repairing).

Anyone else get this mental picture of a mothership wandering around space with a crew of Vikings? :laugh:

Rumsponge · Jul 8, 2013

All things considered, it sounds like these things are not all that exciting for hunters, but I bet miners would be glad to get an extra 5% boost in extraction speed.

Strash · Jul 8, 2013

don't forget the crown of the deathbringer!!!!

1% crit buff
it is confirmed

Falagor · Jul 8, 2013

Rumsponge said:
Anyone else get this mental picture of a mothership wandering around space with a crew of Vikings?

This is... legen... wait for it... dary...

but for real... the helmet lookst just plain stupid :dunce:

.

Rumsponge said:
All things considered, it sounds like these things are not all that exciting for hunters, but I bet miners would be glad to get an extra 5% boost in extraction speed.

Excatly thats why i started this thread

. Healers can get it too imho.

Strash said:
don't forget the crown of the deathbringer!!!!

1% crit buff
it is confirmed

Quick comparsion of +1% crit vs +5% reload speed:
100 hits with weapon 100 max dmg:

normal (without helmets): 2% crit ratio -> 98*75 + 2*(100+75) = 7700.0 dmg
crown of DB: 3% crit ratio -> 97*75 + 3*(100+75) = 7800.0 dmg
Thor Bers Helmet: +5% reload speed -> (normal dmg)*105% = 8085.0 dmg

As you can see crown gives very little extra dps (abou +1.29% vs +5% of helmet dps)

Of course Helmet has the huge regen debuff that is a problem when hunting things that hit ya

.

So for normal hunting the crown may be very usefull whle for hunting while not getting hit the Thori bers is better

.

Falagor
:bandit:

Ludvig|MindArk · Jul 8, 2013

Rumsponge said:
Anyone else get this mental picture of a mothership wandering around space with a crew of Vikings?

These are the voyages of the VMS (Viking MotherShip) Thor, it's crew of Vikings travelling the vastness of Deep Space! Follow their journey as they make their way home to Midgard, the central of the Nine Worlds of the Cosmic Tree Yggdrasill. See them fight legends like the World Serpent Jörmungandr and Vacuum Dwelling Frost Jötunnar!

Seriously tho, these are items that fit for certain types of hunting and activities...

Question: Can the regen inhibition from the helmet be negated by using a regen acceleration Mindforce chip?

Doer · Jul 8, 2013

Falagor said:
This is... legen... wait for it... dary...

but for real... the helmet lookst just plain stupid .

Excatly thats why i started this thread . Healers can get it too imho.

Quick comparsion of +1% crit vs +5% reload speed:
100 hits with weapon 100 max dmg:

normal (without helmets): 2% crit ratio -> 98*75 + 2*(100+75) = 7700.0 dmg

crown of DB: 3% crit ratio -> 97*75 + 3*(100+75) = 7800.0 dmg

Thor Bers Helmet: +5% reload speed -> (normal dmg)*105% = 8085.0 dmg

As you can see crown gives very little extra dps (abou +1.29% vs +5% of helmet dps)

Of course Helmet has the huge regen debuff that is a problem when hunting things that hit ya .

So for normal hunting the crown may be very usefull whle for hunting while not getting hit the Thori bers is better .

Falagor

Yeah to be unambiguosly better the deathbringer's crown would have to buff attack speed or have a greater crit buff. However, one is a dps buff at the expensive of dpp (cost of free regen) while the other is a dpp/dps buff at no cost. Seen in that light it makes more sense. It's the exact same tradeoffs as the adj amp route vs hypercharged route, and in both cases it's been clear that dpp is valued more highly than dps by the designers.

Svarog · Jul 8, 2013

Nighthawk said:
Question: Can the regen inhibition from the helmet be negated by using a regen acceleration Mindforce chip?

Bet the helm effect is applied on top of everything else, negating the MF buffs. But should be tested of course.

Falagor · Jul 9, 2013

Tested it with excavator tool in mining:

It does NOT speed it up!

This is really wierd... i double checked with sweating tool today and it still speeds the sweat tool usage.

I am really confused now...

Falagor
:bandit:

danimal01 · Jul 9, 2013

Doer said:
Yeah to be unambiguosly better the deathbringer's crown would have to buff attack speed or have a greater crit buff. However, one is a dps buff at the expensive of dpp (cost of free regen) while the other is a dpp/dps buff at no cost. Seen in that light it makes more sense. It's the exact same tradeoffs as the adj amp route vs hypercharged route, and in both cases it's been clear that dpp is valued more highly than dps by the designers.

Of course DPP is valued more highly over DPS. This is what I have been saying for the longest time now. The less it costs for you to shoot and loot the better you will do on your overall return rates. Less money spent for the same amount of loots someone else is getting lets you play a heck of a lot longer then them.

~Danimal

TheOneOmega · Nov 6, 2013

Falagor said:
Confirmed that it also increases the speed of repairing tools:

RK-5 (L) without helmet - 33 uses during 1 minute

RK-5 (L) with helmet - 35 (nearly 35) uses during 1 minute

I know that 1 minute is not enough but its actually already visible. Anyone who participates in MS repairs could verify this. The 1 minute i was limited with repairing to my Hoverpod mk3 (1min is about 90% of its SI repairing).

I see no reason why healing or mining tools shoudl differ in this matter...

Falagor

O_O I did a 10 minute test the day after the helmet was discovered and came up with 33 uses/minute with the helmet equipped, so I came to the conclusion that it didn't work. I guess I'll try the experiment again.

Question: about the permanent effect items?

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