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  1. #11
    Dominant starcollector's Avatar
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    Gradinaru Starcollector Mihai
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    Quote Originally Posted by moeyo1000 View Post
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    In this game MA has about a million tools for everything, but it seems only one for sweating is it possible to get a better tool for sweating or are you stuck with it right out of spawn? I mean what happens if you accidentaly sell your sweating tool because you didn't know better, what happens then?

    Is the only way to get better at sweating to level up your seweating skill?
    OMG!!! We have sweat for the next 10years.... And you want gather more LOL!!!! MA didn't do nothing against autobot why not best tool so your sweat is TT food like some of our LOOT..Sweating places does not help at all ...Sweat must be only on a certain maturity mob so peeps stop doing autobot and stupid ideas that make newbie playerbase to stay out the game!If now is 1,5.....september will be 1 ped and December 0,50 ped...

  2. #12
    Marauder Doer's Avatar
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    Or we do away with the VSE and go back to the tribal chant/gyration. I liked that better.
    Champion of reason, unraveler of MA's mysteries...forever n00ber
    Myth busters: Evade/Defense Skills Weapon damage Armor decay Unlocking Skills Weapon attachments
    Other esoterica: My Story Luck Project Entropia: what's in a name? More bang

    Quote Originally Posted by narfi View Post
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    Everything but friendships is clutter

  3. #13
    Stalker Dan59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doer View Post
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    Or we do away with the VSE and go back to the tribal chant/gyration. I liked that better.
    It was only real mindforce manifestation - no tools, no inplants, no chips, just force of our mind, no needed to be in line of sight aiming with tool constantly..
    I liked it.
    I liked movements and animation too.
    I found that concentration of female avas was like some kind of sexy dance.
    You were free to move or stand without constant "close circle" harashers and constant run to put tool in ambu ass.
    It was a lot more relaxing as is now.
    Yes i wud like to go back.
    Imagine that on higher profession lvls one cud be able to sweat many mobs at once - no need to aim with tool/ toos - our mind is aware of mobs presence, our perception work, our will force is helped by telepathy, concentration ... ops im in wrong place - no mind force here.
    But i dubit that MA will change chip force and tool force to mind force as EU is less skill based and more item and ped based environment.
    In tool force world as we have already with VSE cud be as an interesting evolution in profession - introduction of decayable VSE and possibility to sweat/harvest plants and collecting their fruits...yea, food, collors, other resources..
    Rumors say that this chip was used by MOFUlogist Dan Dan Petrov during his specialisation in WTFlogy..

  4. #14
    Prowler
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    Better sweating tools do kind of make sense... especially when you look at ALL the tools and gizmos this game has... But then again, more sweat = lower price of sweat. So sure you are sweating twice as fast now, but you're selling for half as much.

    When it comes to the price of sweat the problem isn't in the lack of tools for sweating, the problem lies plain and simply in the lack of demand for sweat. You see, if MA introduces more BP's that require sweat, or more refined items that require sweat the demand goes up, and shortly after that you will see the price following along.

    Again, it isn't just as simple as increasing demand for sweat to solve the problems either -- because increased price for sweat discourages depositing, and this game needs depositors to continue. Servers don't pay themselves to run, neither do employees.

    If you ask me?

    Touch nothing with sweat -- leave it how it is.

    my two pecs :PP




    p.s. maybe I'm bias because I deposit? :P

    -MsP

  5. #15
    Old Alpha skeezer's Avatar
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    Szilard Skeezer Aszkenaze
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doer View Post
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    Or we do away with the VSE and go back to the tribal chant/gyration. I liked that better.
    Yes, Please!



    Bluh bluh bluh bluh, bluh bluh bluh bluh....

  6. #16
    Prowler jambon's Avatar
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    Sweating used to be a way that new players could make a few ped to play...

    Now sweating is a joke... you spend hours and hours sucking sweat out of an ambu's butt for nothing.

    99% of players that actually buy sweat do it just to be nice to help out noobs - not because they actually want that useless crap lol

    The price of sweat is falling and will do so forever because it's use is very limited. More so than ever before. And any new sweat tool that helps you get sweat faster is only going to serve to push the price of sweat even lower.


    And now for the history lesson:

    In the old days there was only 1 kinda of ME and no vehicles... If you wanted to fast travel you had to have ME and a TP chip. Or there had to be a TP near where you wanted to go.

    These days....

    ...Everyone's got a vehicle as some are freely given to new players just for completing a mission.
    ...LA owners can purchase an official TP for their area which many already have (there's twice as many TP's today than there was 5 years ago).
    ...There's 2 other kinds of ME that are used in the expanded mindforce system and neither require traditional sweat.


    Though it would be nice if MA would add another layer of gameplay to EU that didn't require peds... But that's a story for another day.

  7. #17
    Prowler
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    Putting myself in MA's shoes for a moment.

    1. I run a business - not a charity
    2. My goal is to make $ and be profitable (hasn't happened latelty )

    If I were running MA my target audience would be adults with jobs. One adult that deposits $50 to $100 a month brings in the same amount of PED to me as would 50 players who borrow their parents credit cards twice a year to deposit $10 each time. If I ran MA, my goal is to go after the person who has a stable job or a secure income, someone who can deposit on a monthly basis, because if I can get him to play my game, he's worth 50 other players that come here looking for handouts and 'get rich quick schemes' that aren't willing to deposit.

    If I create tools that increase the supply of sweat, it isn't going to do anything for the players except drive the price of sweat down. When demand remains the same but you shift supply upwards, the result is an oversupply of said resource, and the price comes down.

    So in short, creating new tools to increase the amount of sweat does nothing at all for the game or price of sweat except allow you to get more sweat -- but now that you're getting twice as much and selling it for twice as little you are no better off.

    Back to me running MA :P

    O.K., So if my target audience is Adults with jobs, and I have server costs and employee costs and building costs to make -- I need depositors. I can't run my business unless I have income coming in, if I increase the demand for sweat by creating new BP's and in turn raise the price for sweat -- I've allowed players to make more PED/hour by not depositing.

    If I'm running MA, I want to discourage non-depositing, because I see non-depositors as free loaders.

    It's true, I want to allow others to try my game for 'free' before they buy into it, because there have been many players that tried the game out for free, and months, even years later deposited. This is a fine line I must walk, because if I allow players to essentially 'make it' in my game without depositing they take potential $ from me, and other players who deposit, this is something I want to avoid at all costs.

    So how do I let players experience the game, play for free, but not really take $ from me or other players? Well this is very easy to do now by giving them items that have no resale or trade value, but that still allow the player to experience all the different types of game play.

    The days of players starting out without depositing and getting rich by just sweating are pretty much long gone, as it should be in the eyes of MA. There's no incentive to create a higher demand for sweat if I'm only going to attract the people I don't want to attract (a.k.a. non-depositors looking to get rich for free).

    In turn, my focus should be on advertising, bug fixing, etc. This game could use updates to the user interface, and a whole slew of alterations to the game play, GUI, economy, as well as minor changes to basic mob/user interactions; however, I'll leave those for discussion on another day! :P


    -MsP

  8. #18
    O.K., So if my target audience is Adults with jobs, and I have server costs and employee costs and building costs to make -- I need depositors. I can't run my business unless I have income coming in, if I increase the demand for sweat by creating new BP's and in turn raise the price for sweat -- I've allowed players to make more PED/hour by not depositing.

    If I'm running MA, I want to discourage non-depositing, because I see non-depositors as free loaders.
    Not really. "Free" sweat doesn't cost mindark anything. The peds another player pays you for it come from his deposits or winnings. If a non-depositor is able to play well enough to convert those peds into a profit, that doesn't cost mindark anything either. It's like a poker player who just keeps winning and taking his winnings back to the table. The house takes a percentage of every pot no matter who wins (auction fees, decay, etc.), and someone will always be willing to buy more chips (ped) to contribute to the winner because they all hope they will be the winner someday, or just because they enjoy playing the game, even if it costs them something. All the while, the house keeps taking its rake from every pot, and they will always do so as long as the game is fun or people see a potential to win.

    On the other hand, you have the slot machines. When you buy ammo or probes, that's basically loading money on your slot machine card. The house sets the percentages in the slot machines to make sure they pay out around 90 - 95% of deposits, and then when somebody hits a big jackpot they flash lots of lights to encourage other slot players to risk more money (global and hof announcements). Again, smart players know that in the long run they will lose money playing these games, but maybe they just enjoy the thrill of playing, and in my opinion hunting in EU is way more fun than playing a slot machine. Still, it doesn't make the non-depositor a "free loader" if he manages to use a few house incentive offers to get other players to finance his startup.

    Just as a disclaimer, I'm not defending myself here. After playing for a few hours, I did make a deposit to get myself started. Basically, I wanted to jumpstart the speed at which I would be allowed to play at the higher stakes tables.

    As you say, if MA increased the availability of sweat, it would simply crash the price of sweat, which costs MA nothing except for maybe some new players who get frustrated and quit. On the other hand, if they increased the demand for sweat by making new BPs that use it, then the value would go up, and non-noobs might be tempted to just go get it on their own instead of paying the noobs for it. As others have said, it's a very fine line to keep the value at just the right level to serve as an incentive for new players. In reading old posts, I've seen players complaining that the value of sweat had plummeted to 5 ped/k. Obviously it's much lower than that now. The only thing that MA needs to determine (for themselves, not for us) is at what sweat price they retained the most new players and got the best deposits overall. Remember, even the "freeloaders" who sell sweat end up putting the peds that other players deposited into the TT or contributing to auction fees eventually.

  9. #19
    I guess as a second way of looking at it, you could consider sweat to be a lower level of the mentoring system. Just like the mentoring rewards that serve as a bit of an incentive for taking a newbie under your wing, sweat provides an incentive for providing a bit of finances to help a noob get started.

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