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Another try: 3D-print of Imperium Spec Lancer

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Well, I am back ... halfway at least. The stupid palsy of my right hand still lingers on. But I've learned to use the mouse with my left hand a bit meanwhile. Everything takes twice the time than usually and I often miss my target with the cursor and click at wrong places with unwanted effects - lol

Additional the next job was the most tricky so far: The body of the vehicle. The old model I found wasn't that good. It caused a lot of problems with further work. Finally I skipped it and started again from scratch. Several problems popped up. Find a compromise between the ingame model and the original Cyrene design, make a lot engravings for later painting the RL model instead of textures, fit the dimensions to the needs of 3D-printing and so on.

Here we go:

progress04.jpg


I am pretty satisfied with it so far. Let's see if the small engravings will appear at the printed model to separate areas of different colours. They are very tiny: 0,5 mm wide and 0,3 mm deep. The accuracy Shapeways offers is 0,2 mm. No clue if it will work. But I won't make them wider at the first attempt.
 
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Holla! I was just talking to Akoz. Probably MA will use my design for Monria apartments! So stay tuned folks - lol

P.S. ... before you ask: No, you won't get any details from me ;-)

P.P.S. ... This could be the start of a new era of involving players. I know Akoz asked several others to help out with the design of his moon Monria. Let's see if MA is smart enough to embed players designs and reward it in a fair way. We asked for that all the time, knowing that the good but small 3D-unit has to do a huge job.
 
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Okay, next part will be the "arse", the cockpit and drive assambly. Next tricky part ;-)
 
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Jamira said:
Holla! I was just talking to Akoz. Probably MA will use my design for Monria apartments! So stay tuned folks - lol

P.S. ... before you ask: No, you won't get any details from me ;-)

P.P.S. ... This could be the start of a new era of involving players. I know Akoz asked several others to help out with the design of his moon Monria. Let's see if MA is smart enough to embed players designs and reward it in a fair way. We asked for that all the time, knowing that the good but small 3D-unit has to do a huge job.
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Gratz!!! :yay: Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!! :yup:
 
Here comes the next challenge:

progress05a.jpg


I think I will start with it tomorrow after breakfast ~11 am

Too many faces as usually. The modellers shoud really put more effort in reducing this numbers!
 
Nor Alien said:
Gratz!!! :yay: Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!! :yup:
Click to expand...

Looking forward to the outcome as well. Just afraid to have to tell the community: "Sorry folks, that is not what I wanted to deliver." ;-/

But I shouldn't be that pessimistically. Let's stay tuned!
 
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PM sent to Shurkamp.
Probably we can make a prototype test ...
 
In preparation to build the cockpit I compared the 3D model to the original design again and a bit more extensiv. At this area we find many differences. The model is built in a completely other way than the drawing shows. During this inspection I had a closer look to my avatar. OMG! Look at my legs! And what the hell is this needle between my breasts?

ulla01.jpg


This model will be completely useless if I start making a pilot for the 3D print.

Well, back to the vehicle. The original design consists of two main parts. A hull with a big opening and kinda engine sitting beyond this. The modeller mixed both parts somehow. Again I have to decide wich version I should use. And again I tend to use the original design. Next point is the hight of this part. The original design shows the same hight like the main body. The driver would sit "in" the vehicle. The hull would cover his head. He would need monitors to see what's infront of him. In this case I prefer the ingame model wich allows the driver a better view where he is flying to. The driver sits more "on" the vehicle.

progress05c.jpg


Next is the seat. It looks as it offers a relaxed sitting position. But poor Jamira must sit there very stiff without using the chair-back. What to do? If I want to make it user friendly I should change the seat to. But hey! It will be a small model only. And changing the shape of the seat would mean I have to change the geometry completely. I will let this part as it is. In particular because I don't know yet if I will ever put a driver into the cockpit.

Next is the engine. The original design shows a jet nozzle wich is clearly out of the middle. Wich lets assume that it's meant as twin jet engine. It is not hidden by any parts. The ingame model has one in the middle.

progress05d.jpg


Well, let's keep the ingame design. It is easy to build and makes the appeareance more familar to the ingame view to its arse.
 
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Jamira said:
In preparation to build the cockpit I compared the 3D model to the original design again and a bit more extensiv. At this area we find many differences. The model is built in a completely other way than the drawing shows. During this inspection I had a closer look to my avatar. OMG! Look at my legs! And what the hell is this needle between my breasts?

ulla01.jpg


This model will be completely useless if I start making a pilot for the 3D print.

Well, back to the vehicle. The original design consists of two main parts. A hull with a big opening and kinda engine sitting beyond this. The modeller mixed both parts somehow. Again I have to decide wich version I should use. And again I tend to use the original design. Next point is the hight of this part. The original design shows the same hight like the main body. The driver would sit "in" the vehicle. The hull would cover his head. He would need monitors to see what's infront of him. In this case I prefer the ingame model wich allows the driver a better view where he is flying to. The driver sits more "on" the vehicle.

progress05c.jpg


Next is the seat. It looks as it offers a relaxed sitting position. But poor Jamira must sit there very stiff without using the chair-back. What to do? If I want to make it user friendly I should change the seat to. But hey! It will be a small model only. And changing the shape of the seat would mean I have to change the geometry completely. I will let this part as it is. In particular because I don't know yet if I will ever put a driver into the cockpit.

Next is the engine. The original design shows a jet nozzle wich is clearly out of the middle. Wich lets assume that it's ment as twin jet engine. It is not hidden by any parts. The ingame model has one in the middle.

progress05d.jpg


Well, let's keep the ingame design. It is easy to build and makes the appeareance more familar to the ingame view to its arse.
Click to expand...
For the Ava, did you do an overlay to get that image? If so, I wonder if your jacket is causing that spike? For the legs, I think they just stretched the Ava to make it fit the design of vehicle instead of fix the vehicle to fit the Ava. Just a guess on my part. ;)

Either way, it's looking great! :)
 
It seems they did the vertex weight wrong, that's why it stretch the meshes to strong around the knee.
 
Nor Alien said:
For the Ava, did you do an overlay to get that image? If so, I wonder if your jacket is causing that spike? For the legs, I think they just stretched the Ava to make it fit the design of vehicle instead of fix the vehicle to fit the Ava. Just a guess on my part. ;)

Either way, it's looking great! :)
Click to expand...

It is not an image. It's a sceenshot from my CAD program. It is the 3D model that my sister grabbed when we had this vehicle session. Regarding the legs appeareance: Well, who really cares for it ingame? But it is important of course for a RL 3D-print. I have an idea already. If it comes to make a driver, I will use my old Poser 4 for the body and put my original head on it. You may import other geometry (the cockpit) to Poser and scale and position a human body until it fits. Than export the human body, let's say to Rhino 3D, behead it and put another head on it ;-)
 
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Jamira said:
It is not an image. It's a sceenshot from my CAD program. It is the 3D model that my sister grabbed when we had this vehicle session. Regarding the legs appeareance: Well, who really cares for it ingame? But is important of course for a RL 3D-print. I have an idea already. If it comes to make a driver, I will use my old Poser 4 for the body and put my original head on it. You may import other geometry (the cockpit) to Poser and scale and position a human body until it fits. Than export the human body, let's say to Rhino 3D, behead it and put another head on it ;-)
Click to expand...

why don't fix only the bad meshes, is not a big thing to do?
 
trance said:
It seems they did the vertex weight wrong, that's why it stretch the meshes to strong around the knee.
Click to expand...

I don't know how it's done nowadays. In my old 3D Studio kinda ready-for-use skeleton is used for making poses and movements. The tricky part is to connect the right points of a skin to this skeleton. If you put some effort into this work, the software will do the rest with good results and a good appeareance. Since they work with 3D Studio, they should have an eye on this part of the job.
 
Jamira said:
I don't know how it's done nowadays. In my old 3D Studio kinda ready-for-use skeleton is used for making poses and movements. The tricky part is to connect the right points of a skin to this skeleton. If you put some effort into this work, the software will do the rest with good results and a good appeareance. Since they work with 3D Studio, they should have an eye on this part of the job.
Click to expand...

yea, how i said before, bad vertex weighting. rigging models the right way is not a easy thing.
 
trance said:
why don't fix only the bad meshes, is not a big thing to do?
Click to expand...

The model is too rough, not only deformed. Even if it would be 40 mm only you would see the rough faces. Hands and head are built with much more faces.

For those of you who are interested in details I put the model as eDrawing to my place:
www.3D-handwerker.de/EU/Lancer/Ulla.exe
 
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Jamira said:
The model is too rough, not only deformed. Even if it would be 40 mm only you would see the rough faces. Hands and head are built with much more faces.

For thouse of you who are interested in details I put the model as eDrawing to my place:
www.3D-handwerker.de/EU/Lancer/Ulla.exe
Click to expand...

Do you have an smooth or face dividing function in your 3D application? With this you can make more faces.
 
trance said:
Do you have an smooth or face dividing function in your 3D application? With this you can make more faces.
Click to expand...

Yes, 3D Studio has a nice smoothing function. But since the avatar model comes in pieces you have to connect them before and melt the vertices. Then smooth it. It gives good results. But it's a lot of work. If you leave the peaces alone all edges you don't want to be smoothed will be smoothed too. That produces very bad effects. I tested it in the past.

Additional the model isn't waterproof. You must fill all the small gaps and put thickness to single faces (hair) because the 3D printer won't accept parts with thickness = 0. All in all it is easier and better to use geometry from Poser.
 
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Jamira said:
Additional the model isn't waterproof. You must fill all the small gaps and put thickness to single faces (hair) because the 3D printer won't accept parts with thickness = 0. All in all it is easier and better to use geometry from Poser.
Click to expand...

yea, i see, is a time quest:) ... The vehicle looking awesome! :cool:
 
Well, I made a quick test: a standard ava from Poser via DXF export to Rhino. While the figure of my ava contains 13700 faces this model contains 33500 faces more than twice. Next benefits: it's more or less closed geometry, you can give it the correct pose direct in Poser wich is very handy.

driver_test.jpg
 
trance said:
yea, i see, is a time quest:) ... The vehicle looking awesome! :cool:
Click to expand...

Not only time! The main part is having fun, not stress. Sitting at my loggia at a nice summerday, playing around with all the abilities I have is fun. Repair the ingame avatar model to make it printable is hard work. Nothing for me. Cheers!
 
Wooooot! First part was easy ;-)

progress05e.jpg

I think I should go hunt a bit. I am too lazy to continue with the model.
 
Jamira said:
Wooooot! First part was easy ;-)

progress05e.jpg

I think I should go hunt a bit. I am too lazy to continue with the model.
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looks great! Gl on the hunt! Hey MA, how about a nice ATH for this effort?! ;)
 
And mindark need to introduce the f-15 faster them quads
We go from sleipnir mk1 to mk3 them quadwing now its time for f-15 :wtg:
 
Nor Alien said:
looks great! Gl on the hunt! Hey MA, how about a nice ATH for this effort?! ;)
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Hehe ... it's Cyrene stuff, not MA ;)
Well, the hunt wasn't that bad. 89% return without a single global ... no desaster in the end. Some skills even. The problem is: I take part at manuel's 50k Trox Event. I NEEEEEEED globals ;)
 
Additional remarks

I would like to zone out a bit.

When it comes to making such a project, it is important to not doing illegal actions. First of all is this copyright thingy. I mentioned it above (post #13). Another issue is using legal or illegal software. My opinion is, that this is an important part. Many folks don't have problems with using illegal copies of software. I do. For private purpose I use some cracked versions of some programs. Just for playing around a little bit. But for such a project like this one I use legal software only.

I mentioned them before. But let's make a complete list for you to know what it takes to go into such a business:

1. 3D Ripper DX

It is for free an can be found here: http://www.deep-shadows.com/hax/3DRipperDX.htm
I use it for grabbing 3D geometry from 3D applications like Entropia Universe. I asked MA once if I am allowed to use it with EU and got the answer: "Yes, but for private purpose only." I suggest to send a similar request to MA to everybody who wants to use it.


2. 3D Studio max

Since 3D Ripper DX offers import plug-ins for 3D Studio Max or Maya I use my latest legal version of 3D Studio Max wich is #5. Well, a new licence costs 4036 Euro. An upgrade from 3ds 5 costs 3900 Euro.
http://store.autodesk.de/store/adsk/de_DE/pd/productID.269713600


3. Rhino3D

I use an old version (3.0) on my laptop. That's the one I work with. It is a legal licence from the company I work for. I am allowed to use it for other purposes. I have Rhino3D 5.0 as well on one of my desktop computers. Same conditions: legal. Single licence will cost 995 Euro.
www.rhino3d.com


4. SolidWorks

Nearly the same like the Rhino licence. Company cancelled one of the two maintenance agreements and is running only one. I got the permission to use the other one wich is SolidWorks 2007. That's pretty old but it does the job. This one is still running with a hardware dongle at the parallel port. Completely useless with modern laptops because they don't have such a port. Well, I am not really sure about, but the price is something between 4000 and 5500 Euro per licence.
http://www.solidworks.com


5. Poser

This is really good for making 3D models of human avatars. I bought it once and own a legal copy of Poser 4.
Currently they offer Poser 10 and Poser Pro 2014 ($300 and $500). I assume the lower version Poser 10 would do the job. Same as my old Poser 4 does.
http://poser.smithmicro.com/poser10-poserpro2014/#pricing


6. netfabb

This software enables you to prepare your model for 3D-printing. netfabb Basic is for free (non-commercial use only)
http://www.netfabb.com/downloadcenter.php?basic=1


7. Corel Photo Paint

I use a legal copy of Corel Graphics Suit X4. It's good for preparing screenshots to fit in here. The current version X6 is offered for 630 Euro.
http://www.corel.com/corel/


8. Hardcopy

It's a screenshot program. The best I know. It's for free for private purpose.
http://www.hardcopy.de/


Well, we end up at ~10k Euro if you want to run this job - :)
 
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Data formats

Additional it's important to know wich data formats we deal with.

For 3D-printing you need STL ... stereolitography ... an ancient name for modern technology ;-)
It is the one and only. No alternates as far as I know. Whatever software you use, you must be able to export a STL-file.

In generally we have three kinds of models:
  1. polygon net (DXF, 3DS, STL and several others)
  2. CAD surface (IGES, VDA)
  3. CAD solid (STEP, IGES)

The tricky part is always the transformation from one format to another. It may cause gaps and insane geometry.

For mechanical design I prefer SolidWorks. It is unbeatable at this section because it was developed for this purpose. How to handle models from SolidWorks? Just export them as STL directly or use IGES and import it to Rhino. This software is great for prepaering and repairing models.
 
Jamira said:
Additional it's important to know wich data formats we deal with.

For 3D-printing you need STL ... stereolitography ... an ancient name for modern technology ;-)
It is the one and only. No alternates as far as I know. Whatever software you use, you must be able to export a STL-file.

In generally we have three kinds of models:
  1. polygon net (DXF, 3DS, STL and several others)
  2. CAD surface (IGES, VDA)
  3. CAD solid (STEP, IGES)

The tricky part is always the transformation from one format to another. It may cause gaps and insane geometry.

For mechanical design I prefer SolidWorks. It is unbeatable at this section because it was developed for this purpose. How to handle models from SolidWorks? Just export them as STL directly or use IGES and import it to Rhino. This software is great for prepaering and repairing models.
Click to expand...


A good software for transferring different formats to other formats is Ultimate Unwrap.
Also good for UV mapping, but this function you don't need for 3d printing. :)

About 3D tools.
It also give some nice open source or free ware tools like:

- Blender - 3D modelling tool http://www.blender.org/
- Gimp - 2D paint tool http://www.gimp.org/
- Make Human - Beta version of a cool character builder http://www.makehuman.org/
- Sculptris - an 3D modelling sculpt tool http://pixologic.com/sculptris/

I'm sure it give more
 
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trance said:
A good software for transferring different formats to other formats is Ultimate Unwrap.
Also good for UV mapping, but this function you don't need for 3d printing. :)

About 3D tools.
It also give some nice open source tools like:

- Blender - 3D modelling tool
- Gimp - 2D paint tool
- Make Human - Beta version of a cool character builder
- Sculptris - an 3D modelling sculpt tool

I'm sure it give more
Click to expand...

Yo, got it. But Ultimate Unwrap can handle polygon nets only :(
There is a reason for why I stopped working with 3DS Max - :)
And Blender is too tricky for me. I am too old for such stuff. I like the simple SolidWorks. At least for mechanical design.
 
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