TIme for a poll: Known Issue: Spaceship Summoning

The actual exploit in this case is the way they have used several features for one purpose.
If they had done as they did but no killing, would you look at it in the same way?
(Asking this in general, not directly to any individual.)

Vedder said:

Ah, so there's no exploit because the victims were stupid, unlucky or slow, or all if it? They simply had it coming. That'll teach them! Right?

I see it all clearly now. Stupid people don't deserve justice. Same for the unlucky or naive trusting people.

Click to expand...

Sir, did I say that? No, but you wanted to go to the feeling level and guess what, I won't come there. As far as I have understood the thread is about what Mindark should do. The best damage control is to compensate or return the looted stackables AND not to listen a mob with pitchforks and torches which is blinded by revenge, giving you the full support to bang the big hammer with no investigation what so ever.

Pyhä Antero said:

Vedder said:

Pyhä Antero said:

I know, I have clicked mistakenly. Still, the spaceship has been at safe zone. They have had time to log off or take their names off from the guestlist and teleport down or teleport to space station.

Click to expand...

Ah, so there's no exploit because the victims were stupid, unlucky or slow, or all if it? They simply had it coming. That'll teach them! Right?

I see it all clearly now. Stupid people don't deserve justice. Same for the unlucky or naive trusting people.

Click to expand...

Sir, did I say that? No, but you wanted to go to the feeling level and guess what, I won't come there. As far as I have understood the thread is about what Mindark should do. The best damage control is to compensate or return the looted stackables AND not to listen a mob with pitchforks and torches which is blinded by revenge, giving you the full support to bang the big hammer with no investigation what so ever.

Click to expand...

Nope, you didn't say that directly. But the meaning is similar. At least that's the meaning I get from your comment about safe zone, and having time enough etc.


My apologies if I misunderstood you. But I don't see what else you could mean with that comment.

Bump for more votes

lol summoning someone to space isn't illegal.
killing them after it isn't illegal either, morally unaccepted maybe.

But the one that clicks yes and goes to space that's the greedy noob that wanted a free ride.
you shouldn't accept stuff if you don't wish or want to know the consequences.
same happens in real life all the time!

Other than that.. ( i've said this earlier )
The rate in which we pirates spammed that ability to summon that was illegal.
we have been warned. and will now not summon THAT often

oh another thing:
IF YOU AGREE WITH THE PIRATES AND LIKE WHAT WE DO,
PLEASE DO NOT SAY ANYTHING IN THIS FORUM BECAUSE YOU WILL BE NAILED TO THE WALL
AND YOUr INGAME REPUTATION WILL BE DESTROYED BY ACTIVE TROLLS HIRED TO PESTER PIRATES VERBALLY.
We love you too

---
edit
this story is being blown up by forum trolls.
any smart person would know that half the trolls say is bs.
Do we pirates take the effort to prove the trolls wrong? no.. cuz we don't give a fck.

Reason for the ban is simple.

Summoning is ruining every new players experience to EU. We have Monria comin "shortly" out. So would be nice to hear "LOL don't play the game, when I logged in I got summoned and stranded and don't know what to do. What a lousy game" Dont play it. /quit


So why don't the community start adressing new players to leave EU, since they are the most inexperienced and would push "yes" atleast once to just check wtf this is. (Think they know of lootable pvp in space yet) ?

If the community pushes new players away, MA have to implement a solution / put the ban hammer down.

I'd love to know what justification (at the time of writing) 6.82% of the forum membership who have expressed an opinion think the use of this exploit is not worth punishment.

I bet we won't see an answer here though.

Stagger can you explain to us what means the word "exploit" ....
Is not us who will decide what will happen with you and others ....MA Court will decide that...
Entropia Universe is today what it is because the most of players acted fair,reported several bugs .... If us normal players do not exploit why other players(pirates) have other kind of treatment...

Dusk said:

I'd love to know what justification (at the time of writing) 6.82% of the forum membership who have expressed an opinion think the use of this exploit is not worth punishment.

I bet we won't see an answer here though.

Click to expand...

Would you risk getting sued and spending next 2 years at court, possibly lose the case over that someone lost 2k bottles of sweat or something similar which you could have compensated right away. Also taking into account even if you win you can have gained some bad reputation. And, also taking into account that it wasn't exploit before Mindark made public announcement.

As some great-warrior poet once said, learn to pick your battles.

Pyhä Antero said:

Would you risk getting sued and spending next 2 years at court, possibly lose the case over that someone lost 2k bottles of sweat or something similar which you could have compensated right away. Also taking into account even if you win you can have gained some bad reputation. And, also taking into account that it wasn't exploit before Mindark made public announcement.

As some great-warrior poet once said, learn to pick your battles.

Click to expand...

Everything I've read so far indicates that MindArk have no intention of compensating victims of this exploit.

Anyway, you appear to be posting about what MA should consider, whereas I'm talking of those people who apparently think the exploiters should receive no punishment. The 6.82% figure has crept up again I see...

The issue here is intent, did they summon people with the intent of looting them? yes

Was it an accident? no
Could it have been an accident? no

Every pilot who participated knew this was wrong to abuse, I wouldnt even accept a "but I didnt know", and just say now you do, goodbye.

They made a choice, they should reap the rewards of that choice, which is a big BAN.

One of a series of bad rep for MA.

Spaceships need to be recoded to work the same for everyone without bugs. Once again, I think its entirely possible that these "pirates" are MA support personnel, and until I see actual action against these people, I will assume it is a collaboration. I would hate to see a legal issue cripple MA......Plenty of bias can seemingly be observed for certain players.

People keep bandying words about MA being taken to court.

Has anyone thought about that? its virtually impossible to take action against a website in a foreign country. You have to contact the company which administrates the data centre which is hosting the website.

would people be willing to pay for flights, solicitors, translator, hotel costs to stay in sweden and go through courts? while possibly taking months out from there own job? get real

and truly ridiculous, is the idea of starting a claim or action against another player

serious, you in the US and your gonna start criminal/court proceedings against some guy in a small russion town who you only know his avatars name? and ma will never give u his name, his address etc..

never gonna happen not in our lifetime, ma + players are fairly safe with mundane stuff like this.

-My opinion for the players is torn between perm/temp ban, its not acceptable what they did and were intending to do. And if someone scammed me for cash and i saw him in RL.. well lol lets just say it wouldnt be pretty

-ma obviously take some blame as people have been saying..

kitch

Hijacker27 said:

I want them to at least reverse all looted items, remove the privateer from game, and ban all parties involved for at least a month.

Otherwise, perma ban them and auction off items to pay compensation to all people looted by these idiots.

Click to expand...

i agree with that one

maybe sell privateer via auction as well to get more money for compensation purposes

Kitch said:

People keep bandying words about MA being taken to court.

Has anyone thought about that? ...

Click to expand...

Yes. (And we don't all live in US, though you seem to think so)

Kitch said:

...its virtually impossible to take action against a website in a foreign country. You have to contact the company which administrates the data centre which is hosting the website.
...

Click to expand...

No it's not virtually impossible. No, you don't have to contact the company who administrates the data centre. Weird idea.

Kitch said:

...
would people be willing to pay for flights, solicitors, translator, hotel costs to stay in sweden and go through courts? while possibly taking months out from there own job? get real
...

Click to expand...

Agreed: It's not easy or cheap. You don't have to stay there while the process is going on though. Hire a swedish lawyer. Still it's gonna be expensive.

But if a group of ubers get screwed over, it's very realistic. (I think there has already been a case. I don't think it went all the way to court though... Afaik it was settled before that.)

Kitch said:

...
and truly ridiculous, is the idea of starting a claim or action against another player

serious, you in the US and your gonna start criminal/court proceedings against some guy in a small russion town who you only know his avatars name? and ma will never give u his name, his address etc..
...

Click to expand...

Yes, that one seems very unrealistic.
If you can convince the police there's been a crime, MA will cooperate and give the IP and personal data to the authorities.
But you'll probably never get your money back anyway, if you're after another player.

Kitch said:

People keep bandying words about MA being taken to court.

Has anyone thought about that? its virtually impossible to take action against a website in a foreign country. You have to contact the company which administrates the data centre which is hosting the website.

would people be willing to pay for flights, solicitors, translator, hotel costs to stay in sweden and go through courts? while possibly taking months out from there own job? get real

and truly ridiculous, is the idea of starting a claim or action against another player

serious, you in the US and your gonna start criminal/court proceedings against some guy in a small russion town who you only know his avatars name? and ma will never give u his name, his address etc..

never gonna happen not in our lifetime, ma + players are fairly safe with mundane stuff like this.

-My opinion for the players is torn between perm/temp ban, its not acceptable what they did and were intending to do. And if someone scammed me for cash and i saw him in RL.. well lol lets just say it wouldnt be pretty

-ma obviously take some blame as people have been saying..

kitch

Click to expand...

I doubt it would even end up in court in sweden....

money are involved and u know u do something illegal -> no warning needed just perma ban

So here's my take on some possible actions that could I think be taken.

1. For each privateer involved calculate damage done plus add a substantial 'administrative' penalty.

2. Submit bill to privateer owner plus ban and deactivate ship until paid. If owner also involved in the operations then minimum 30 day ban plus added penalties.

3. For each avatar involved in kills basically the same calculation.

4. Distribute fines to victims as a goodwill gesture and hope that some will come back.

This should collect more than 2 times the damage done and distribute it back to the damaged parties.
The privateer owners should be responsible for what is done with their ship.

Just my 2 cents - I was fortunately not caught by this particular scam.

SoReal said:

Not stupid at all they all knew what they were doing from the moment that first summon went out .
They knew they were exploiting all of the following:

1.The summon function on the ship
2.The fact that new players would be suckered in
3.The fact that the box pops up in the middle of the screen and some players would click it by mistake
4.The fact the MA were on vacation and therefore would not be able to do anything about it until they returned.

Permanent ban for all envolved + block the IP address and if MA have it the MAC address of their network cards.
EU DOES NOT NEED PLAYERS LIKE THIS

note: I have nothing against pirates that play the game properly and dont exploit, are there any of you about who would like to stand up for yourselves and codemn the actions of your "aquaintances" so you dont all get tarred with the same brush?

Click to expand...

You completely underestimate how damaging dishing our perm bans would be to the entirety of EU.



On another note: I do not understand why people have had to put a label of PIRATES on the people who are doing this. This means you are only talking about pirates, when we know that is not only pirates abusing this function.

*Facepalm*




I don't understand if I am a genius or the majority of people on this/ who play this game are idiots.

so there a new way of getting poeple money should add it to the list of thing ship can doo

new option you can summon someone and hope buy mistake they accept and loot them and hooping they have allot on them


this should be posted on advertising i dont think alot of poeple going to play this game for long the only players that going to come over is poeple hooping to steal from others

stagger last post say it all

they should add to the tt machine a tab if you hit it it tt everything you have including skill at the same time

new added feature seam there looking to make money at the same time

.Stagger said:

But the one that clicks yes and goes to space that's the greedy noob that wanted a free ride.

Click to expand...

Q: If someone clicked the button by mistake (due to the nature of where/how the summoning accept shows) did you guys allow them safe passage out?

.Stagger said:

you shouldn't accept stuff if you don't wish or want to know the consequences.
same happens in real life all the time!

Click to expand...

Um, 9/10 times what you describe here IRL occurs, it's a crime, and the criminals should be/are punished appropriately.

.Stagger said:

Other than that.. ( i've said this earlier )
The rate in which we pirates spammed that ability to summon that was illegal.
we have been warned. and will now not summon THAT often

Click to expand...

Art Jennifer said:

You completely underestimate how damaging dishing our perm bans would be to the entirety of EU.

Click to expand...

I agree this case may not require a perm ban. However, being overly harsh has never been MA's PR issue.

Art Jennifer said:

On another note: I do not understand why people have had to put a label of PIRATES on the people who are doing this.

Click to expand...

This is at odds with the last part you quoted. It seems SoReal is clearly showing the difference between players using the game as intended, and for lack of a better term, "cheaters".

Art Jennifer said:

This means you are only talking about pirates, when we know that is not only pirates abusing this function.

Click to expand...

So, you have information about another group (besides this society) doing the same summon just to loot maneuver? If so, please tell, even if to me privately. I'd love to know.

JohnCapital said:

This is at odds with the last part you quoted. It seems SoReal is clearly showing the difference between players using the game as intended, and for lack of a better term, "cheaters".


So, you have information about another group (besides this society) doing the same summon just to loot maneuver? If so, please tell, even if to me privately. I'd love to know.

Click to expand...

The second half of what i said was in no way related to SoReals comment.


I do, I have reported them and they will be dealt with by MA, I do not really want to slate them in public.

1st time = warning
2nd time = temp ban
3rd time = perm ban

(edit) And any items illegally looted = returned to owner

I think they should be sentenced to watch 24 hours of Justin Beiber videos, with there eyes forcibly opened for the duration.

RickEngland said:

I think they should be sentenced to watch 24 hours of Justin Beiber videos, with there eyes forcibly opened for the duration.

Click to expand...

Now that's punishment

RickEngland said:

I think they should be sentenced to watch 24 hours of Justin Beiber videos, with there eyes forcibly opened for the duration.

Click to expand...

or 10 hours of the trolololo guy!

Lorthis said:

Easy answer:
The person(s) doing the actual summoning: perm ban
The person(s) shooting/looting: warning or temp ban accordingly

Click to expand...

I agree with this.

I also think if Mindark doesn't take such an action,you will have every kid/idiot ingame harassing the other players during their time spending money in Entropia Universe.

Thorns Rose said:

I agree with this.

I also think if Mindark doesn't take such an action,you will have every kid/idiot ingame harassing the other players during their time spending money in Entropia Universe.

Click to expand...

So true and Stagger is already back today making posts saying more or less 'see I'm still here MA didn't do anything!'

but yes, MA is slow so lets just hope........

Thorns Rose said:

I agree with this.

Click to expand...

I agree spot on. Unfortunately I cant see MA doing much about it tho

Thorns Rose said:

I also think if Mindark doesn't take such an action,you will have every kid/idiot ingame harassing the other players during their time spending money in Entropia Universe.

Click to expand...

Yes we dont want that for sure.........................................

OHH wait!!!!

.Stagger said:

The rate in which we pirates spammed that ability to summon that was illegal.
we have been warned. and will now not summon THAT often

this story is being blown up by forum trolls.
any smart person would know that half the trolls say is bs.
cuz we don't give a fck.

Click to expand...

To the people exploting this.. Stop it, you're only damaging the reputation of the game.

Personally I think a Permaban for the summoner who is doing this is in order as it violates Rule 8c of the Entropia Terms of Use Contract that everyone agrees upon when they launch their client loaders..

Rule 8C states as follows:

Rule 8c of the TOU: . You (if you are the summoner) cannot interfere with any other Participants (or Players)( who are summoned to your ship unwillingly due to an exploit) ability to use and enjoy the Entropia Universe.

This is a rule that was written by Mindark, and in fact this is what is stated there in Black and white.. No exceptions..

Failure to agree or comply with this results in this.

Rule 5.1 of the TOU: Banned Account (or “Account Banning”) means that the Account is under investigation due to a suspected violation of the EULA, ToU and/or Rules of Conduct, or that the Account user was deemed to have violated one of the said agreements. This may be temporary for short or long periods, on MindArk's and/or MindArk's Partner sole and absolute discretion

The above Rule 8C is part of the TOU and by interfering with the other particiants' ability to enjoy and use the game, they are in essence violating the EULA and the TOU as per the contractual agreement when you click that "I Accept button" on the launing page.

Furthermore, this goes on down in Rule 5.2:

Rule 5.2: Please note that if Your Account has been Locked You are still obliged to comply with the EULA and the ToU Agreement in their relevant parts.


This is again a hard and fast rule for the parties involved..

So even if there is a person exploiting this the ban should be permanent, no exceptions, the CAccounts should be locked, the IP's Permanently banned from use, and any further suspicious actity be monitored for potential abuse..Furthermore, the person killing these players by having his partner doing this exploit is in fact also violating the rules. Again, No exceptions.

Long story short..Just plain stop it and MA might go easy on you.. might being the operative word.. The more you do this the more complaints will end up in MA's in box, the more you will be looked as a person who will be violating all the rules and be deemed as a cheater. and thus MA will be forced to permaban you.. again No Exceptions..

Now then to the people exploiting this and this is a final warning from a player who uses common sense Go ahead and keep doing it, and oh by the way go get yourself some good lawyers whent they do lock your account or accounts. Because in the end your case is weak, if not existent. Most if not all lawyers who look at contractual law, see the TOU and the EULA as a binding contract. When you click "I accept" on the contractual page, in which the TOU is listed,you are electronically signing it that you will follow the terms of the contract.. Think of it as you being the tennant, and MA is the Landlord. You don't follow the rules, and the Landlord has the right to go after you.. No exceptions.. Same goes for Binding contractual agreements. So go ahead, get some lawyers talk to them, see what they say, and they'll tell you what I am telling you now.. to just drop it and stop doing it and you won't get hurt.. I fact when you finally break the rules, no lawyers will be able to help you.. this is a legal and binding contract you agrrred to and signed once you clicked the "I Agree button."

What I am stating is QFT, and this is something MA must do in order to keep players from Cheating or violating the TOU.. Need we be reminded of another incident that happened less than 2 years ago, when the person who violated the TOU used a known bugged item, and actually cheated not only himself, but hurt other reputable players and forced them out the game, The person also hurt Mindark financially and in the end, Mindark had tyo revise the entire mining system to prevent such an event from occurring again. The Person who got caught, was permanently banned, and all of his in game assets were frozen.. and he was scrutinized under a microscope not only by Mindark, but by the other players as well. And right now, I hope the guy is happy with himself. Frankly he hurt not only MA, and other players' enjoyment of the game, but his own as well.. Just because he didn't follow the rules.

You live by the rules, you die by them too. End of story.

.Stagger said:

lol summoning someone to space isn't illegal.
killing them after it isn't illegal either, morally unaccepted maybe.

Click to expand...

No it's not illegal, but disrupting a players enjoyment of the game is.. and that right there is grounds for Permanbanning..

.Stagger said:

But the one that clicks yes and goes to space that's the greedy noob that wanted a free ride.
you shouldn't accept stuff if you don't wish or want to know the consequences.
same happens in real life all the time!

Click to expand...

And the one who clicked "I Accept" onthe TOU is bound by a contractual agreement to the rules and set down by Mindark.. it's there on your launch screen.. You should read it more often..You summon a player and disrupt their gameplay who then is violating the rules? The player who unknowingly acepted your offer of the abdutor who kidnaps them, takes them into space, soots, them loots, them and leave them stranded on a station a without the fairness to bring them down to a planet? just to get some other poor sap to come along and help them out, and then get shot down themselves? YOu're walking on shaking ground bud..

.Stagger said:

Other than that.. ( i've said this earlier )
The rate in which we pirates spammed that ability to summon that was illegal.
we have been warned. and will now not summon THAT often

Click to expand...

And you just admitted it.. Stupid move on your part in my opinion..

.Stagger said:

oh another thing:
IF YOU AGREE WITH THE PIRATES AND LIKE WHAT WE DO,
PLEASE DO NOT SAY ANYTHING IN THIS FORUM BECAUSE YOU WILL BE NAILED TO THE WALL
AND YOUr INGAME REPUTATION WILL BE DESTROYED BY ACTIVE TROLLS HIRED TO PESTER PIRATES VERBALLY.
We love you too[/tuote]

Takes a troll to know what one is... and you sir, are a troll. sadly your own words deceive you.. you already destroyed your own reputation with your own words..

By your admittance to this and the fact that you knowingly are exploiting it, states to me that you are in essence violating the TOU willingly and thus the hard facts don't lie..

(And frankly I never met a man I never liked.. Until now..)

.Stagger said:

---
edit
this story is being blown up by forum trolls.
any smart person would know that half the trolls say is bs.
Do we pirates take the effort to prove the trolls wrong? no.. cuz we don't give a fck.

Click to expand...

For a person who says they're smart, admitting that you're doing it on an open forum like this shows really how smart you really are. Brain dead is an appropriate word here .Stagger, and in fact frankly if I get banned, I don't give a fck that you just cost yourself another victim.. ah well, your loss, not mine..

(GO walk into my apartment on arkadia and look at what you just lost.. me? It's all virtual money, and all virutal items, I play for the fun.. The question i ask is.. Do you play for the fun? Or do you play fo the money? Remember this is a game, not a quick rich scheme. It's supposed to be fun. But when you take other player's fun from them, when you interrupt their fun and game play, what does this make you in their eyes? A low down griefer who has no right being in this game.. and they'll complain.. long and loud..

oh and if folks are reading this. Remember this. I'm a nicer guy than the guy who doesn't give a fck. and who admitted his guilt. It's a shame really.. The guy I knew 2 years ago, was a nicer guy back then, but now? He's just become a person who has become self centered, obnoxious, and sadly annoying character by being a troll himself.. Like I said,"Takes a troll to know what one is." I give a care to all the players out there, as I respect each and every one of you, be it pirate or no. But you sir? Sadly I don't pity you idf you do get banned by Mindark.. "Do unto others as they would do unto you.. to you it's a game, but in the real wold, games can be a visous medium where players hurt players, but what is worse, is that players often hurt themselves.. And now that I'm seeing this, I really think this game is no longer fun.. and frankly it's a sad commentary that I just wasted 5 years of my life, and met a lot of good people. some of them I became good friends with, and sadly, it takes a grifer like yourself to ruin the fun for everyone.. Let' me ask you this simple question Not only you but all the players out there. If there were no one there to paly, how would you pirate? Asnwer that question and you'll see that you are shooting yourself in the foot. No Players mean no depos, no depos mean no vicitms. so then.. who are you going to play with? Yourself?


IN closing I am going to quote a famous line that a famous cowboy by the name of Will Rogers and he said it best.

"I never met a man I never liked.. "

People cared about you .Stagger. and I could name names but now a number of them don't care about you They don't give a fck what happens. Frankly I still talk to them, and inf act they still talk to me, but some say they never want to talk to you ever again.. Is this what you want? to not have friends around you? But keep it up, and the only one who will be wondering is you.. wondering of what could have been.. Remember I'm one of the nicer guys, I give people a fair break, I give people second chances to prove themselves wrong. I don't hoid grudges against guys like you.. But the moment you crossed the line and admitted it, all respect for you was lost.. Now then.. My question is this: Do you give a fck about that? Your own self esteem or worth? Seems someone has an ego the size of Texas and sadly very few friends who will be able to support him when the chips are down. Me? I got a longer list of friend then you do right anow, and frankly I respect everyone on my list. I even give decent breaks to those who want to have fun. Call me a philantropist, call me a nutcase, call me whatever you want. Frankly that's the fck I do care about.. At least i care what happens.. But now? I guess the game has jaded players.. it's all about the money and not about the fun of exploring or hunting or mining.. Frankly that's why I'm considering of moving on.. of leaving the game, and lettting you lose what you could have had if you had talked to me in a nice way rather than saying "I don't give a fck..

As for me? I'm really consdering quitting. No reason to be in a game where there are friefers who just want to stroke their egos.. me? I love PVP and my girlfriend does too, but we'll take our fun elsewhere.. Might as well not bother you and your pirating way...

Agan, your loss, not mine..


Benjamin Ben Coyote
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper..

Click to expand...

Quit bitching about it already.....

Wait, i was looted the same way ............. NOOOOT