Question: Am I stupid for not cheating?

Yes, I'm well aware of some folks opinion about my lack of grey matter, and that's fine, but I'm talking about a specific situation here. That being: Should I have used exploits?

In most games, I got no problem playing with cheat codes (Remember the old Shogun: Total War? Infinite Gold FTW) but with Entropia, since real money (specifically other people's real money) is involved, I decided early on to play as legitimately as possible.

My results so far have been fine, but I've skipped many, many cases where I would have increased my ped card, skills, gear, etc. by refusing to use certain practices.

I never trapped, VTOL hunted, exploited certain flaws I saw in the system, etc.

7 years of doing this, I'm still seeing MA remain lax on punishing cheaters. This isn't just about the summoning issue. To this day, you have to screw up pretty big to get banned for VTOL hunting, or just about anything else. And usually you still get to keep what you unfairly "won".


So I'm wondering, if I skip the issue of my pride for playing fair, is there any real reason not to step over to the dark side?

The problem with your poll is that regardless of peoples own openions and personal ethics, they will want you to play fair.

1. The honest players want you to remain honest and keep the game a honest place to play.
2. The dishonest players want you to remain honest so that they can maintain their advantage over you and anyone like you.

To be honest, if I'd posted that, I'd expect a ban from the forum, or a good telling off.

Question doesn't need to be asked.

Edit
MindArk should clamp down hard on all exploiters, if they want to survive another 10 years.

For even thinking this you should be removed from being a MOD.


Shows you are now susceptible to discover and use cheats in every aspect of the game.

Including forum power.

I think he is just making a point.

I'm not an expert on those exploits you just mentioned.... but afaik they can't "increased your ped card". Sure it can save you some time or cut your expenses a few peds short, but I don't know if you can make a fortune from exploits.

With that said, if I find an exploit that lets me make peds from MA (and doesn't cause any loses to other players) I would milk it dry ... If MA wants to prevent this they can take serious action against exploiters so nobody is tempted to go to the dark side, and work on fixing it asap... but they don't!

I've been playing by same "rule", and I guess i have lost a sh**load due to it, but
so far I haven't lost my own moral and ethic.

My guess is that this is a rethorical question, not a wish for guidance.

EDIT: One reason why some exploiters get away is probably due to MAs
log isn't so superdetailed as some might think.
So it might be hard to prove it in every case, and accidently perm ban "wrong"
player might "kill" their business completly.

Have to agree with John on this. Only hardcore cheaters got bans... but it usually takes MA months before they even adress an exploit so I think its impossible to ban cheaters. Only logical thing to do is cheat... it's sad that I just cant do it... sometimes I just want to be an asshole too

Until I see some hammering from MA
(temp and permanent bans for players who don't care for the sucess and well being of this virtual universe)


I have changed my stance:
from reporting the problems to support
to:
share with everybody who wish to use them



Probably should had done this a long time ago, since it it unadmissable some replies that I got from them
(I was telling exact details and they still had doubts).


(Edit: I was the first to vote on F*ck on this poll, 17 had voted the other way at that point)

Joat said:

I've been playing by same "rule", and I guess i have lost a sh**load due to it, but
so far I haven't lost my own moral and ethic.

Click to expand...

This ^
Sadly opinions are like a$$holes and there are a lot of them on this forum.

Kitty said:

This ^
Sadly opinions are like a$$holes and there are a lot of them on this forum.

Click to expand...

As soon as something has a RL value there will always be that kind of people around.
They rather hide behind a illness with "any kind of letter combination, except P-IQ"
to do things with low moral and ethic. I guess all we can do is to accept that, because
I think "retroactive abortion" isn't allowed...

narfi said:

The problem with your poll is that regardless of peoples own openions and personal ethics, they will want you to play fair.

1. The honest players want you to remain honest and keep the game a honest place to play.
2. The dishonest players want you to remain honest so that they can maintain their advantage over you and anyone like you.

Click to expand...

This (you have to spread rep blah blah)

-----------

I vote:

• there should be no possibility to cheat/exploit and whenever new exploit is discovered it should be top priority fixed.

Also there should be clear statement (in official place like Clientloader) whenever there is doubt what is and what is not an exploit. This is needed for two things:

• to show how fast MA reacts on spoting and fixing bugs/exploits - raising confidence among playerbase. ("we know exploit is out there and we will fix it in next 3 days" posted on first or snd day when they get reports from players and actually consider somehting an exploit)
• to have clear situation among playerbase about not exploits. Curently players have many own interpretations of what is an exploit and what is not - this is not good and leads in many cases to rough arguing and flaming others. What is not an exploit should be decided by creators not players.

Falagor

I don't like to give advices on moral issues, so do as you prefer.

I don't know if I am fundamentally a correct person by intrinsec moral or I am so by social learning/fear of punishment, but I'll just stick to being fair.

That being said, please buy my overpriced stuff in auction and don't buy it when I put it too cheap, tx

You are not stupid ...but peeps who use the "cheats" hmm they think they are smart ....

JohnCapital said:

Yes, I'm well aware of some folks opinion about my lack of grey matter, and that's fine, but I'm talking about a specific situation here. That being: Should I have used exploits?

Click to expand...

NO

If you do this you have no right to complain about others.

JohnCapital said:

In most games, I got no problem playing with cheat codes (Remember the old Shogun: Total War? Infinite Gold FTW)

Click to expand...

You really did this ? Thats lame - no challenge. Did you play newer ones aswell ? "Rome, Medieval, Napoleon" ?

The only stupidity here is entirely on the part of MA, for being too lazy to a) enforce their own EULA and deal with cheats swiftly and effectively, b) to always consider fixing exploitable bugs/systems as priority number one, and c) issue public warnings about using specific exploits.

They finally seem to be getting somewhere with c) but it's pretty worthless without a) and b).

MA is so Lax because the loot system allows for "cheating" (trapping, VTOL hunting, etc.). P2P scams/exploits SHOULD be dealt with immediately and with a vicious blow because of the RCE.

I personally know of someone who did extensive testing trapping SEGs. This person got less loot trapping than not trapping. In fact.... about 40% less loot when not taking armor/fap decay. You can confirm these findings yourselves by revive killing a low regen mob. (though it's timely... you'll see the same results).

When MA temp bans a VTOL hunter or trapper it's PURELY because the playerbase is complaining about it. Remember... this game doesn't "guestimate" our cost to kill and pay us based on that estimate. This game simply calculates your expenditures and pays you based on that... with a binge and purge system in the background that hands out your big HoF's.

An uber can grind Warlocks all day long killing 1 every minute (just for numbers sakes...). A VTOL hunter can exploit those same warlocks killing 1 every 5 minutes (again... just for numbers sakes...). Therefore... the "honest" hunter (pfft... probably same honest hunter that duped or attempted to take advantage of RT stamina mission bug - but that's another story) can kill warlocks 5x faster than an exploiter... thus giving them 5x the chance to click "loot" at the perfect time. BUT... the wealthy noob (in their eyes) ends up getting lucky and the shit hits the fan....

Seriously.... it's like saying Joe Blow shouldn't have won the lottery because he only buys a couple tickets a year... he's not a "hardcore" ticket buyer....

I know many will say it's against the EULA when someone "wins" via exploiting... but.... if someone deposits to buy a 20k PED weapon and the skills to use it... how do you know it wasn't a "deposit bonus" that seems to happen every time we deposit?

And again... P2P exploits should be dealt with via ginormous ban hammer!

Menace

Menace said:

Seriously.... it's like saying Joe Blow shouldn't have won the lottery because he only buys a couple tickets a year... he's not a "hardcore" ticket buyer...
Menace

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I honestly read this sentence 3 times and always saw "Moe Snow" instead of "Joe Blow"...
So that's how he bought the Unique dub!!! lol
Funny the tricks your eyes play on you

Keep playing fair.

There is no sense of achievement in cheating, and that's the same using cheat codes in old games - you may see the end but its a hollow victory.

Playing fair = ftw

Or better should be...
...but i see ya point. I guess we all could get over a break for a better ped card afterwards. But we dont cheat, why?
They care? Moral? Too risky?

In my case its the second one and i also think its risky but at the other side if they dont care, is it really risky? Whatever.

What i wanted to say is:

I would like to see anonymous poll

Are you dumb for not pocketing a candy bar or pack of gum when the store clerk turns around to get that pack of Magnum sized domers off the shelf?

It's not a question of intelligence, merely one of personal values. I would rather not go to jail and become some guy's girlfriend for stealing candy or anything for that matter, just as I wouldn't exploit Entropia for a few ped and risk being banned.

Moral of the story: Don't steal unless you want to be somebody's b1tch in prison.

Cheers

This is not moral issue. I mean if you can make lots of money (it most be worth the effort) ppl will probably cheat...

Now if you deposit 100K peds trust me you will not cheat or you are totaly dumb risking youre account.

I never cheted in any games period but i was never banned from any games and i like it that way.

JohnCapital said:

Yes, I'm well aware of some folks opinion about my lack of grey matter, and that's fine, but I'm talking about a specific situation here. That being: Should I have used exploits?

In most games, I got no problem playing with cheat codes (Remember the old Shogun: Total War? Infinite Gold FTW) but with Entropia, since real money (specifically other people's real money) is involved, I decided early on to play as legitimately as possible.

My results so far have been fine, but I've skipped many, many cases where I would have increased my ped card, skills, gear, etc. by refusing to use certain practices.

I never trapped, VTOL hunted, exploited certain flaws I saw in the system, etc.

7 years of doing this, I'm still seeing MA remain lax on punishing cheaters. This isn't just about the summoning issue. To this day, you have to screw up pretty big to get banned for VTOL hunting, or just about anything else. And usually you still get to keep what you unfairly "won".


So I'm wondering, if I skip the issue of my pride for playing fair, is there any real reason not to step over to the dark side?

Click to expand...

1.You could,

or

2.still play this game to "earn money" or just to have fun with friends?

do you want to ruin your rep with something banal as using VTOL to hunt?

Concider that and then ask yourself who is the bad guy

First, a confession. I have used VTOL to escape certain death while hunting. Most of it after getting jumped on by ninjaspawn. Thats MA exploiting me, so I give some back, even if I waste some fuel pecs. But I never go hunting knowing I have to use vtol to survive.

Then, I wonder if EU would be as better place if loot actually was a function of peds spent (decay,ammo,...). It would regulate exploits better.. And have a potential for lower loss rate.

I did not vote, cause I missef a third "within reason" option.

Happy gaming

To paraphrase a comment I read on another (non-EU related) site today:

The enriching qualities of life – decency, honesty, compassion, mutual respect and integrity - are becoming extinct.
The arrival of the 11th Commandment - "You can do whatever you want as long as you don't get caught" - has made the practice of cheating publicly acceptable/respectable.
Conscience and compromise are being replaced by social norms of selfishness and entitlement that are in the process of polluting the minds of the young.
For them, the future looks rather dim.

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Serica said:

To paraphrase a comment I read on another (non-EU related) site today:

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I too hate this sort of spartian morality.

Sure if you want to develop a warmongering nation like Sparta it would be nice that your youngster to learn to trick and deceive and make whatever they need to survive in an harsh enemy territory

So they had:
if you don't get caught redhanded you won't punished
(even if it was obvious that you had to do it just to survive, but if not caught it was ok, no matter what other proofs or testemonies were presented)


But that isn't what the kind of our current civilization needs,
but many laws still carry this principle like it is usuful for the majority

I'm sure that is good for the rich and powerful and for those who will do anything so that they get such status.

narfi said:

1. The honest players want you to remain honest and keep the game a honest place to play.
2. The dishonest players want you to remain honest so that they can maintain their advantage over you and anyone like you.

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Reminds me of what Charles Baudelaire wrote:

It's only bending the rules and pushing the limits until they get caught... ask Lance Armstrong... ask McLaren F1 about the $100 million fine for stealing Ferrari technical plans... ask Arod, Canseco, Bonds, etc... ask Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, Bank of America about their settlements with the SEC over the financial crisis and mortgage meltdown...
Or just remember the last time you got pulled over for speeding!

anybody who exposes a cheater should get a reward and his ill gotten gains distributed to all players as restitution for the for the ill gotten gains...I'm the bounty hunter cheat and I win you cheat go straight to the ban bin..IM WATCHING YOU..the criminal should be put in a virtual jail forced to start over again,The perp will be on probation with the a striped jersey with a small tt value of course after 2 months he can sell the jersey once reformed.....and rejoin the community in good standing

exploits don't exist. Bad programming does. http://www.entropiaplatform.com/entropia-platform/security/Both

Planet Partners and the participants on the planets should always feel safe in their endeavors in Entropia Universe.

Click to expand...

The very fact that phrase 'exploit' exists in relationship to this game makes this promise null and void...

Since the programmers didn't take the time to test stuff out and left it in the game on the live servers myself, and many others, "feel unsafe in their endeavors". Therefore, Mindark has a hell of a lot to do to live up to this broken promise...

All the cash from the CLDs should have been used to buy some security analysts, bug testers, and better programmers to fight the exploits and make them cease existence... so far, that doesn't appear to have happened.

Oh my... looks like the jinny's out of the bottle...

Let's see if we can calm it down a little?

I believe there's some "invisible fines" in EU. Actually, if i had to protect my online environment dealing with large sums of RL money i would have to implement them. No need to prove every little detail, suffices i found it out. If someone says this or that punishment was unfair i can always deny everything, saying "The system is dynamic!"
The little charms of RCE...

If this sysem exists, it sure doesn't work very well though, doesn't cover all areas, etc.
Then again, nothing in EU works very well.