Discussion: Changes in CLD payments & ROI

vodeodoe

Hatchling
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Posts
3
The profits from CLD have been up and down for ages but now seem to take a week after week drop.
unfortunately I was late to invest and purchased at a high price after the second lot of CLD was issued and paid from just below 1200 to not much under 1500 as the peak price was at ATH. With the first lot I was having great ROI and thought wow this is a good investment and kept adding to ROI every week to buy more and although it’s not a too bad investment at the moment it is on a constant fall so I sold up before it gets worse.

WHAT I THINK HAS CAUSED DROP IN ROI

If say a player had bought 200 CLD and used the ROI from 100 to spend on skilling and happy just to let the other 100’s worth add up and cash out maybe? that player has now stopped depositing. But with ROI being at a good rate and CLD prices keep going up selling would be silly.

What goes up must come down

Now with CLD peaking at ATH, investors with many could make a killing before a drop, (this is where the maths kicks in) with players selling up to take advantage of high resell value other depositors can come in and buy enough CLD to fund skilling and reduce the amount of depositing. Over time many small depo players with enough CLD would never need to depo unless they buying uber gears resulting in low ROI. If only 1 player had all the CLD then thats only one non deper but as they get split up you end up wit a massive load of non depo players
 
Christmas shopping season is starting... Nuff said. People are blowing money on others irl instead of on themselves in silly virtual item purchases in game.
 
Other planets are more interesting than Calypso atm.
 
When CLD's came out I said they were a bad investment. I was told I was an idiot....

Nuff said...

Menace
 
When CLD's came out I said they were a bad investment. I was told I was an idiot....

Nuff said...

Menace

How could it be a bad investment buying something for 1000ped and selling for 1500 ped later? Plus all the small payments along the way.
 
Youve got to be kidding me. I am kicking myself for not buying at their original 1k ped. Compare these to stock (which they are) and you will see that they were a hell of an investment.
 
Youve got to be kidding me. I am kicking myself for not buying at their original 1k ped. Compare these to stock (which they are) and you will see that they were a hell of an investment.

bubble.jpg
 
How could it be a bad investment buying something for 1000ped and selling for 1500 ped later? Plus all the small payments along the way.

But they told him truth.
 
The amount of deposits - withdrawals in EU for the period of Jan-June 2013 are on the same level as the same period last year. But I believe the numbers of players that are on Arkadia and the other planets have increased compared to a year ago, so more revenues are probably going there instead of Calypso.

Also remember that Calypso earns more money from players that created their avatar and joined the game at Calypso. At the start all players was from Calypso, but as time goes by and old players quite and new players join, the mix between Calypso created avatars and avatars created on an other planet will shift more and more. So even if, let's say 80 % of the players was on Calypso both last year and today, the share of the amount of players created on other planets playing on Calypso probably have increased and that would mean less revenue to Calypso and less money to the CLD owners. Calypso borne players also brings in a small amount revenue from other planets.

If the total number of players in EU don't start to increase, the trend of decline in ROI will probably continue for a time, because of the movement of players to other planets and the decline in the number of older Calypso born players. At some point this decline in ROI will probably stop or at least the decline will be slower, it all depends on how many players starts on Calypso compared to other planets, the total numbers of players in EU and how many of them plays on Calypso.

CLD owners should not look too much on the decline in ROI in my opinion, they should judge what they think of the future of the game. Will EU have a good future and attract more players? Will Planet Calypso still be the planet of choice for a big part of the EU gamers? I think the Calypso share of the EU players will continue to decline, I would not be surprised if only half of the EU players are on Calypso in two years. So too keep up the revenue the total numbers of EU players must increase. One thing is for sure, EU needs more players, otherwise it will be hard do keep all the planets running.


So too end this up, the decline we see now is mostly and consequence of a changing balance between Calypso players and "other players", not actually a decline in EU.
 
If CLDs pay out under 3ped and keep dropping you can kiss this whole game goodbye. And that includes everything you own. CLDs are a reflection of the games health if you think they are some isolated item that will not effect anything else your making a big mistake. Investing in CLDs is investing in the game and it is diversified enough to be you investing in the future of the game itself. If you think somhow another planet will somehow have major success without it effecting CLDs or other planets being so great that CLDs will go to shit... then you are absolutely wrong.

FYI - MA was able to take the worst week in CLDs history and have the next week be above average just by offering a simple skill bonuses.
 
If CLDs pay out under 3ped and keep dropping you can kiss this whole game goodbye.

Wrong, Calypsos user-activity needs and can easily go a bit down to increase activities on other planets ...in this case the game can get stronger than ever with decreasing ROIs
 
thats very true and it's in MA's interest to make other places more interesting for more profit. If i was MA i would not make Dev Calypso any more

sry but disagree :/

what i see is that MA is sabotaging other planets economy.
Arkadia is best example.

The Super mining on ark was nerfed by changing the ore content.
Same time they changed the SIB- lvl's on arkadian crafted weapons and fucked up few crafters.
One had his single Foot in this business and never recovered from this shock.
Some Blueprints he bought cost 5k ped or more.
From one day to antoher they were worthless......
Thats now almost exactly 1 year ago.

Arkadian economy didnt recover yet from this big hit.
Yes there are many people today on ark.
But which of them cycling few K' ped TT on crafting or mining anymore ?

What i saw is that MA using its monopoly Right to make "guidelines" and so they can lead the attractivity of planets for players.

Yes ark is here and there somehow good.
But still mining and crafting is not what it was before.
Thats just 1 example.

MA is dictating the rules and calypso is aswell one important planet, because of CLD's.
They know they need keep up the ROI.
Some people are investet with few 100k $ US.
If they would think EU isnt a good place anymore or investments are under risk and return their money........
this might be similar to the bank crisis IRL.

If someone does a withdrawl of 100k $ , you should know MA is not liquid straight on :)
There is a reason why a withdrawl takes up to 2 month.
they need to make it liquid first and loosing then on other investemnts they do with the money of the DEPOSITORS.

MA is working like a bank in that way, spekulating with other peoples money :D

They take care that after a time EVERYONE comes back to calypso :p
the good thing is , Caly and other planets are in direct competition for attractions, thats good for us.
So we can hope on all planets for nice changings, and we see there are many many changes currently.
Not all good , but many nice things too.

I think we have a "deflation spiral" at the moment in entropia, or at least danger for it.
A deflation spiral happens when not enough currency is around to keep up a economy.
First prices (markup's) go down, in the second phase the economy shrink caused by missing markups.
Many people here in forum often wrote CLD might have a negative influence on game because the people not depositing anymore and just play from their ROI. they might be right, at least partly.

MA got in a short time 6 Milllion US$ from CLD-sales.
Now less economy by same amount on players.

The effect here is like:
A Car Company listed on Stock-Exchance selling their stocks. the holders expecting wins.
Imagine what happens, if the main customers which are ONLY still buying the cars, are the guys who own the stocks ??
And even worse !!
If they only buy a car if the ROI payed out the amount where the holder needs to buy a car ?

This company would be bankrupt within 1 year !

The only good thing is the shares are that expensive and nowdays risky and not lukrativ that not to many players still stocking them up (otherwise we had already 2k ped/CLD).
But many of the older playerbase which where regularly depositors are now shareholders.
and newsters stop within 1 week in average......
anyone has been nea's place or OLA 42# lately ?

neas is empy , and ola 42# people go only if there is extra cash anymore =)
the amount of noob sweaters has decreased the last 6 month by ~80% (and sweat price is still on 1.5/k :D )

just the amount of noob sweaters you can see nowadays tells a lot about the real situation atm.

let's hope its just a phase and MA goes strong by holding and ace in their backhands.

cheers^^

**doesnt fit to topic but if we talk already about economy: **
**Since 0.0 in space has been fixed, the amount of welding RK-5 and welding wire **
**which are sold, dropped off by ~80%, which had an direct impact on crafting and mining again ^^ **
 
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hey check this thread out

information on ROI



where do you see the Dip in the ROI??? it is still sitting at 24% didn't mindark say 23%? on avg?


stop the panic take a breathe and have some fun
 
hey check this thread out

information on ROI



where do you see the Dip in the ROI??? it is still sitting at 24% didn't mindark say 23%? on avg?


stop the panic take a breathe and have some fun

hmm, maybe you should look again,
aswell ingame you can see its far below that what you try to say.
Im not the only one who reporting and thinking about the changes last few months.
Im not panicking.
Thats just nacked facts :)

and as far i remember (i started playing shortly after CLD where released) they said 25-30% ROI/year =)
 
Why speculate?
This all is nothing more than a financial pyramid.
All in subject.
 
hey check this thread out

information on ROI



where do you see the Dip in the ROI??? it is still sitting at 24% didn't mindark say 23%? on avg?


stop the panic take a breathe and have some fun

What Strash said :wise:

From what i can see in the spreadsheet the returns are pretty stable and certainly not "ever decreasing" as OP puts it.
 
ok , ok

CLD-for purple spektacle wearers.


Lektion 1.

CLD ABSOLUTE
price CLD = 1000 ped
calcultated within the last fiscal peroid:

peroidROI
1st 6 month26.62%
after 12 month (6 month peroid)24.28%
after 18 months (6 month peroid)23.37%
after 24 months (6 month peroid)22.29%

CLD NOMINAL
calcultated within the last fiscal peroid:

CLD PriceROImonth/year
1000 Ped28.56%Jan/2012
1200 Ped19.93%Dec/2012
1460 Ped13.71%Nov/2013

doesnt matter HOW you look at it....it goes down down down down :D

its small moove but shows a clear trend for the time since its been released.
You cant take the whole time something exist and take all payout together.
You need always calculate with the PRESENT payouts for last fiscal peroid.
So if we talk about Average / year, asure we only look on the LAST 12 month.
who cares what CLD gave 2 years ago ? :0

i used this data from this "ROI" post

and i say it again :D
i dont panick, i dont wanna spread panick , but i dont like it either if people cloud the truth ^^
if you dont believe me then re-calc it yourself but try to do it like someone would do it who handles cash like a stock trader would do it.
Then you will see CLD might be worthy , but very risky too and the trend shows definately down for the future.
Who has CLd, bought a while is good on it to keep.
But for people who dont have, or think on restocking its quite risky !

example:
in middle of sept they cost 1550 each.
if i had bought at this time i'd loose after auction fee exactly 100 ped right now (1460 auction price - 10 ped AF).
its now 10 weeks ago. i'd gotten 35.04 ped ROI in this time.
i'd lost 64.96ped.
thats almost double then what i got during this time.
The frames are open, up and down !

But CLD are linked to the direct ingame happening , and MA made many nerfes this year which some people made to stop or go in break at least.
This has direct influence on them.
And we all felt it , but some people looking on not clear data or not updated and inflational not-cleaned data.
(inflation here is : 2012 CLd cost 1k ped, today 1.4k, thats called inflation :D )
I say it once again :D
i dont wanna panick, its just fact they are nowadays not as worthy anymore as they were on the release.
And i want to talk on a base of facts which show the real situtaion.
I know aswell some people dotn wanna talk about this and say just, "whats the problem ? sun is still shining".

If i had many of them i either wouldnt like to hear "based on fundamental data i'd rather not to buy CLD because its for me not worth anymore" and the data i can see and what people talk about it (ROI of 24% ROFLOLOL) are just cloud up on the truth.

sry guys, i really dont wanna blame anyone but thats just the truth :)


so enjoy all the time waiting for MM , ROI will go up then again :D
 
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What Strash said :wise:

From what i can see in the spreadsheet the returns are pretty stable and certainly not "ever decreasing" as OP puts it.

I'm the one that now manages that spreadsheet and can confirm you are at least partially blind. Please visit an ophthalmologist.
 
EU should be a casino. But take away a % of every players deposit and give them to someone who payed for a virtual paper slip it's just downfall from there.

No depos = No Revenue = Bad ROI = marked crash for CLD.

Shitty part is that IF MA had implemented the CLD features it would actually boost it. But instead MA goes the wrong direction and gives out more UL items and more events. (Such a easy way to make a quick boost in the ROI)

Passive income is not what this game needs. Even LA owners need to keep their LA mobs "happy".
But MA continues to do the short way which eventually kicks them is the a** in the end.

I mean Kim talked about random villages which I thought was a feature to compensate for removing "Strange signal" in mining where you had to shoot 2 x drones and loot a chest with always 50 peds in it after a tiny spaceship landed. A miner had to buy mining equip & protection and weapon. Or else the avatar could die and the chest was up for grabs by anyone.

As long as the features gets taken away which creates these "micro transaction" by decay etc. I mean rework cape corinth? Who the hell @ MA HQ thought this was a good idea?

CLD "was" a good idea if the features had been implemented. Now they are just a passive income, which means you spend 100 000 dollars on CLD's. Log off & never log back.

Just when you get email that the account will be "deleted" or for withdrawles.
 
from the spreadsheet:
total tax received: 465.32
original cost of each cld was 1k...

thus you've made back (return on your initial "investment") 46.532% of original investment. What's all the moaning about? Eventually the roi will be more than the initial 1k investment... Of course there will be ups and downs.. so what if you won't be able to buy a ton of clds and unload them in half a month like you hoarders thought you might be able to do so. Long term investors are still "safe" ... which is pretty darn good... and definitely not something to be moaning about how miserable life is. You went in knowing there was "risk" involved and chose to take the risk. Welcome to the "dynamic" part of Entropia Universe. If you aren't making enough precious roi, there's always sweat, fruit, dung, and oil rigs and beer gardens you can visit.
 
I think you guys are all on Crack or something Go visit ROb Ford in Toronto....


You guys do realize how much money is in this game right???? more then you can count....

Secondly The AVERAGE RETURN OF THE ROI IS STILL ABOVE 20% WOW amazing....... i remember the First time they came out you all were skeptical..... now you try to bash it even more?? Crack i tell you will burn your brain..


Thirdly what BANK will ever GIVE SUCH A RETURN on INVESTMENT like this is?

and don't worry about the Depoing cause people will STill Depo. :)
 
Looks like we are going down to nullsec 0.0 :eyecrazy:
Time to make that sellout thread
 
Looks like we are going down to nullsec 0.0 :eyecrazy:
Time to make that sellout thread

It will settle at about 3.3-3.4 with no events. Which is why we will very probably get a spring event, you know.
 
It will settle at about 3.3-3.4 with no events. Which is why we will very probably get a spring event, you know.

Well, its interesting. At the beginning everyone was hoping for 5+, than it settled at 4.x, now its settling at ~ 3.5?
 
Well, its interesting. At the beginning everyone was hoping for 5+, than it settled at 4.x, now its settling at ~ 3.5?

It is irrelevant what it settles at when there are no events, what matters is the long term average, no?
 
It is irrelevant what it settles at when there are no events, what matters is the long term average, no?

Yes, but what if the longterm trend is downwards? Look at the events from last year, the return isn't that good tbh. I'm not dreaming about the returns we had at the beginning (especially at MM).

The overall average value shows 4.44 (at the spreadsheet), but have you looked at more recent times and not the whole? in 2014 its 4.1 in the second half of 2013 its 4.06, but in the first half of 2013 it was 4,43. In 2012 it was 4.69 and in the first half of 2012 it was 5+.


It has a continuous downwards trend, must be a good thing and a good investment.
 
Yes, but what if the longterm trend is downwards? Look at the events from last year, the return isn't that good tbh. I'm not dreaming about the returns we had at the beginning (especially at MM).

I think the real problem is not so much the investment, but long term viability of Calypso. Even though some of the drop is from people playing on other planets, some of it has to be from less activity overall. Also, it makes "us" very event driven.
 
I think the real problem is not so much the investment, but long term viability of Calypso. Even though some of the drop is from people playing on other planets, some of it has to be from less activity overall. Also, it makes "us" very event driven.

I completely agree with the bold part. Its a big concern, I'm really eager to see what will MAs and Calypso's financials for 2013 is going to look like...


And I'm even more interested in seeing for example RTs and Arkadia's financials. ;)
 
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