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Discussion: Changes in CLD payments & ROI

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remontoire said:
It is irrelevant what it settles at when there are no events, what matters is the long term average, no?
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disagree, most of the time is NO-EVENT-TIME.
So Avr-ROI is mostly made outside of event.
The events just pushing it a bit up.

If MA ever needs events to keep the game running, the comapny is already bankrupt , but i thik we are still far away from this point.


@Strash Life, you always moaning when people begin to talk crucial about CLD's.

Its just this people see CLD as what they re and that they ever will be risky, and yes indeed the ROI decreased over the time and as in RL, investors are worring about it. It would be unnormal if they wouldnt !!!
But i think if people analyzing and assert that the "expected" is just 1/3 of what was promised..............

i just can tell you, a RL-Stock had crashed in its price a lot, but CLD doesnt, and this makes people confusing due not just the "nominal" but also the "gross" is decreased a lot but price kept stable or went up..........
People who working on stock markets would ask if "this is a bubble" ??

But we had already a small consolidation !!
So i think its just people trusting MA more then they do for google,GM,Bosch,Siemens,McDonald,CocaCola or however this Blue-Chips companys are called.

I hear always this reason "better then my bankaccount".
Well ,
1. Entropia isnt a bank account !!!
2. MA is not a Bank !!!
3. It is a entertainment plattform and there is no deposit guaranty (like banks have(not talking about how much this warranties are worth))
4. You can read in the EULA (or ToU) that in case of a bankruptcy only TT value has any worth anymore , this means CLD would have a total loss and no claims to get anything of this investment back !!

the reason herefore is quite simple ! CLD-holder are shareholder of the "planet-calypso-company" which IS NOT MA !!!
MA Sold this planet to the players due he found no big investor who wanted to keep it !!
So what doing in this case ? Answer : make a stock company out of it and sell it to clueless sheeps :D

There is a reason why no "big-single investor" didnt want to hold it.
Btw ! Calypso was already sold to a investor in the past and MA had to re-buy it !

So indeed it is more then normal and legitimate to ASK and TALK , special then when there is no "big-power-investor-part", we are all shareholders, some have more some have less and many doesnt know the one or other detail im sharing here.

Not missunderstand me, im not believing MA goes bankrupt tommorow or the CLD will crash (crash is defined by a drop of 10% DURING ONE DAY (would be 145 ped atm!! but we had already 4% drop in the past)).
But offend people like "you all guys have crack in head" is in my eyes more the reaction of someone who is scary to loose something.

The facts :
Gross ROI drop since release is 20% (drop 1/3 of what is was in beginning by 30%)
nominal ROI drop since release (ROI meassured if you buy at aktual price) ~16% to ~14%
..........from 30% !!
this is a drop of more then 50% of what was promised !! :D

yes sure people are worring and talking about , but stocks never promise what they keep and you re right when you say the ROI is still ok. but you and all other guys should know too.
14% is not a super investment , there are ways better investment on same risk level.
If people ask me where or what, :eyecrazy:
darn you have internet check yourself but how would be a greek-gouvernment bond, or if you dont like that large risks, a reforestation project in paraguay (20% avr ROI/year on a 5-7 year plan).
Btw in southamerika Banks give easy interest rates of 10-15% on deposites (brazil,argentinia, paraguay or chile).
and you now moaning about "southamerican banks", well look on the world situation , where is the difference nowdays between europe , US, Asia or south-am, they are ALL BANKSTERS :smoke:
How i said , never compare CLD with a "bank-account-interests".
Muhahahaa rofl *lol*

and not forgetting too the deposit(spread) and withdrawl(by MA) fees !!

well for me i hope we get soon any event , its not about CLD , its more about the game play slowed quite a bit down during the last 6 months or more.
MA should notice that and react, EU might be interesting again if MA takes it serious that many people left and we need "fresh-blood".

in this sense GL @all and wish ya a HoF

;)
 
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Well if MA would actually implement what CLD was actually going to be used for (Claim a part of Caly) with a minimum of ten CLD's. It would actually help the ROI.

Now we just got a passive income. And people have started to use it as currency. (people buy and just take it out)

If MA would stop using cheap tricks aka let's do constant events to help keeping the ROI from falling at an all time low. IT would help. But I guess it's not even on the drawing board since that space is currently occupied by taming.

Just picture yourself buying 10k CLD when it was introduced (900 ped). It is now at around 1400 - 1500 peds and as long as the price for the deeds don't fall. You got a very nice passive income to never put back in the game. (lets say 3 ped each CLD a week) Then u sell the deeds for lets say 1400 ped and u got a nice 500 ped profit from each CLD, then u withdraw all the peds from the CLD sale to. + counting the profits earned while holding the ammount of CLDs.

Not a single Pec would ever be used ingame.

MA really need to think of other ways they can spark a interest in mining / hunting / crafting. I even remember when Club Neverdie aka Foma held mining events. (This was around the time Emine armor was introduced i think)

O hey. Another hunting event. brb.
 
The complainers complain wile the savy ones make ped from you all, which one are you?
 
mike jones said:
The complainers complain wile the savy ones make ped from you all, which one are you?
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I'm the foolish fool that believes too many 'takers' will eventually send the game to oblivion. There's only so much though many paying dreamers will continue to pay towards your so called 'savy' avatars. Then what?

Rick
 
Farmer Smurf said:
sure it can, just watch

edit:Hell I believe it HAS been worse a number of times
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- rep, even you edited your post now ;)

Stop playing an expert and go sweat some more :)
 
PW3CKA said:
- rep, even you edited your post now ;)

Stop playing an expert and go sweat some more :)
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Im no expert at anything (to include typing hence the edit). but you can look at the spreadsheet and see it was below 3ped several times.

-rep for accuracy ftw. have gotten a lot of neg rep over the years. but this is the first time to get -rep for being correct so thats kinda cool.

Hell, week 4 was lower and that was waaaay back at the start of it all. and its not the only example. so yeah its been lower, and it will be lower again. it MIGHT go higher, but all we know for sure is it has been lower before.

Edit: thanks guys for the positive rep :) love this community. (but low cld pay still sucks!)
 
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Farmer Smurf said:
Im no expert at anything (to include typing hence the edit). but you can look at the spreadsheet and see it was below 3ped several times.

-rep for accuracy ftw. have gotten a lot of neg rep over the years. but this is the first time to get -rep for being correct so thats kinda cool.

Hell, week 4 was lower and that was waaaay back at the start of it all. and its not the only example. so yeah its been lower, and it will be lower again. it MIGHT go higher, but all we know for sure is it has been lower before.

Edit: thanks guys for the positive rep :) love this community. (but low cld pay still sucks!)
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The way you worded your comment was "sky is failing" style and then you just edited the message when you realized it was much lower many times in the past. That's why the neg rep, coming to a thread that list ROI and just throwing smart ass comments how it is failing and will fail more, that's why you got it. The edit you made afterwards was just to save some reputation :D
 
PW3CKA said:
The way you worded your comment was "sky is failing" style and then you just edited the message when you realized it was much lower many times in the past. That's why the neg rep, coming to a thread that list ROI and just throwing smart ass comments how it is failing and will fail more, that's why you got it. The edit you made afterwards was just to save some reputation :D
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The edit was to remove // and to add HAS.

I have owned clds since day one, I am very aware of how frequently it has been poor returns. is the sky falling? No its firmly held in place by MA's transparent strings.

I gives a fuck about rep really :) as if I would re-word something because of rep...thats just silly. however 90% of my posts get a edit or 2 after I read through post posting.

PS I never made any smart ass comments about the sky falling...that sir is all in your head.

However the Bubble has popped. how that affects the sky, is for someone else to contemplate.

Last edit lol, If you think the ROI will never go lower again, your delusional. (was that smart ass meh Idc neg rep me rofl)
 
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I think some new usage for the CLD will be implemented when one has payed back its starting price of 1k PED.
Maybe a vending machine :) insert 3 CLD get a Shadow Harness CLD edition ;)
 
PW3CKA said:
The way you worded your comment was "sky is failing" style and then you just edited the message when you realized it was much lower many times in the past. That's why the neg rep, coming to a thread that list ROI and just throwing smart ass comments how it is failing and will fail more, that's why you got it. The edit you made afterwards was just to save some reputation :D
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I totally agree the way he worded it first was "sky is failing" style and i am glad you said something because i was going to bring that up also.
 
It is an investment.

You could have seen it as a short time investment, buy at 1K, sell at 1,5K and all the payouts between added to the profit.

You can see it as a long time investment. Buy at 1K, hold on to them and just let all the small payouts be profit. And one day you gotten the equal value of the investment back in profit, be it 1, 2 or 3 years. Then you sit there with the cost covered and still owning the CLD.

I don't understand all the doomsayers here, I really don't. No, I am not a finance person, never will be as I get bored to death by it. But how can this not be a good investment?

Sure, all can go to hell and the CLD value go to zero and there is no payout about. But that is what investments are, they are risks. This investment has some crazy returns if you look at the big picture and not worry so much about individual payouts or get yourself all worked up because value or payouts are decreasing.

If I would known this result we have now I would have cashed in 100K USD as a IRL investment in CLDs. As it has been a great investment looking back from the 1K buy time.



I would like to hear a doomsayer that can give an example of how he could have done a similar investment as a CLD and profited in the same manner the passive CLD investment has delivered. I am all ears, as I believe the CLD will kick any other investments butt in EU.


Derid, the clueless nub and finance guy.
 
Derid said:
I don't understand all the doomsayers here, I really don't. No, I am not a finance person, never will be as I get bored to death by it. But how can this not be a good investment?

I would like to hear a doomsayer that can give an example of how he could have done a similar investment as a CLD and profited in the same manner the passive CLD investment has delivered. I am all ears, as I believe the CLD will kick any other investments butt in EU.
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And for those who bought at 1500 ped each?

Is it a good investment for them?
 
mike jones said:
It very well could be its still returning more then a high interest bank account.
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Most countries have laws protecting up to a certain amount placed in banks, this adds a security to banks that just isnt there when it comes to CLD.

If you want to take your money you must first.

1. find a buyer for your CLD´s at the price you desire.
2. Wait 3 months for your money

With bank account.

1. Take money out.

The biggest part of the CLD mania is based on the value of the CLD and its potential climb, and that just isnt there anymore.
 
ermik said:
Most countries have laws protecting up to a certain amount placed in banks, this adds a security to banks that just isnt there when it comes to CLD.

If you want to take your money you must first.

1. find a buyer for your CLD´s at the price you desire.
2. Wait 3 months for your money

With bank account.

1. Take money out.

The biggest part of the CLD mania is based on the value of the CLD and its potential climb, and that just isnt there anymore.
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I agree, most money from CLDs was never made from actual payouts, but from reselling (both buying cheap and selling high (day-trading), and buying for the original price (or close to it)).

Is it a good investment? Well, if you hit a nice hof and don't want to buy expensive gear and not necessarily interested in withdrawing at that time (CLDs are very liquid), than its ok. Same goes for scaling down to smaller gear. But to deposit extra peds or sell everything and to switch to only CLDs - no.


About the payouts - its hard to tell whats happening, but I kinda doubt that the activity has dropped by that much (or relocated to other planets). Ofc I could be wrong and this is just a tinfoil hat theory, but Im really starting to think that MA is manipulating CLDs.
1) they never told us how payouts are really calculated - they just gave us some weird % of something that we have no idea what it is.
2) those audits give us 0 information.
3) the model itself is totally unsustainable and requires some sort of manipulations to be able to survive in the longterm.

I think we will see the downward trend in the future as well (or at least it will stay flat). I doubt it will ever return to even remotely close to 5 ped/week per deed.
 
Perhaps MA actually did increase overall TT returns for all professions by a small amount (as stated in the State of the Universe address. That could potentially eat away at MA's overall profits and result in less profit sharing (CLD revenue) for players.

Note: I don't see much evidence for an increase in overall TT returns, but every avatar is different.
 
Rocket192 said:
Perhaps MA actually did increase overall TT returns for all professions by a small amount (as stated in the State of the Universe address. That could potentially eat away at MA's overall profits and result in less profit sharing (CLD revenue) for players.
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You've got it the wrong way round. Higher TT return leads to higher CLD revenue as players can play longer for their budget, and spend more on decay instead of losing their Ped quickly with low loot.
Falling CLD revenue does not prove MA lied when they said TT return had increased, but it is consistent with that (as is my own poor return).
 
Why is it once people get their way that they whined about forever they whine about getting their way?
 
ermik said:
Most countries have laws protecting up to a certain amount placed in banks, this adds a security to banks that just isnt there when it comes to CLD.

If you want to take your money you must first.

1. find a buyer for your CLD´s at the price you desire.
2. Wait 3 months for your money

With bank account.

1. Take money out.

The biggest part of the CLD mania is based on the value of the CLD and its potential climb, and that just isnt there anymore.
Click to expand...

You bring up Two very valid points, but im yet to find a bank account that returns 20% roi, And there seems to be no shortage of buyers.
 
chevrons said:
You've got it the wrong way round. Higher TT return leads to higher CLD revenue as players can play longer for their budget, and spend more on decay instead of losing their Ped quickly with low loot.
Falling CLD revenue does not prove MA lied when they said TT return had increased, but it is consistent with that (as is my own poor return).
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Wow...seriously?
So if I have a business, all I need to do is give away part of my revenues, and I will make more profit? Or do you think the TT revenue is funded from thin air or something?
 
chevrons said:
You've got it the wrong way round. Higher TT return leads to higher CLD revenue as players can play longer for their budget, and spend more on decay instead of losing their Ped quickly with low loot.
Falling CLD revenue does not prove MA lied when they said TT return had increased, but it is consistent with that (as is my own poor return).
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Higher tt return means smaller revenue left to be shared. Revenue is in correlation with how much peds players loses and not how long it will take him.

If payouts were based on Turnover, then yes it would be as the way you described.
 
whiteknut said:
Higher tt return means smaller revenue left to be shared. Revenue is in correlation with how much peds players loses and not how long it will take him.

If payouts were based on Turnover, then yes it would be as the way you described.
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The PP revenue is based on decay, which is roughly proportional to turnover, not TT gains / losses as such.
 
mike jones said:
You bring up Two very valid points, but im yet to find a bank account that returns 20% roi, And there seems to be no shortage of buyers.
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For those people who buy these ~ 1400 the ROI isn't anywhere near 20%.
 
ermik said:
And for those who bought at 1500 ped each?

Is it a good investment for them?
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No, but then again, buying CLDs at 1500 is not a smart thing to do in the first place.


ermik said:
Most countries have laws protecting up to a certain amount placed in banks, this adds a security to banks that just isnt there when it comes to CLD.

If you want to take your money you must first.

1. find a buyer for your CLD´s at the price you desire.
2. Wait 3 months for your money

With bank account.

1. Take money out.

The biggest part of the CLD mania is based on the value of the CLD and its potential climb, and that just isnt there anymore.
Click to expand...

You are thinking as a reseller. As an investor in CLDs, their price means little to me at this point as I am having a constant stream of withdrawals. The 3 month delay also doesn't apply to me, since I'm getting the money in my bank account regularly; I don't care when I made the request, because making one every month guarantees me to have a monthly payout
 
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