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Do you have the skills to help develop Entropedia?

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Serica

Serica

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Harena Serica Turbinis
A few weeks ago, after not hearing any response from Witte in months, and concerned about his continued absence and its effect on the future of Entropedia, I sent him the following email:

Serica said:
Hi Witte,

It's been about 9mths now since you've logged into planetcalypsoforum, and months since you responded to any contact attempt, according to those who have posted.

There continue to be changes by MindArk in recent vu's that are making the formulae built into Entropedia incorrect.
As you're the only person with administration access, none of this can be fixed until you are available.

Witte, please can you post on PCF your intentions with Entropedia?
We all know how someone's priorities can change, as things happen in real life.
If you don't have time to be involved with Entropedia any more, please can you arrange for some other appropriately experienced player to do so, just as you took over from Minder several years ago.

Everyone has put too much into Entropedia to see it become increasingly inaccurate due to things that the users can't fix.

Hope to hear from you soon,
Serica
Click to expand...

Today, he's sent the following response:
Witte said:
... I am currently outside the country again and I do not have access to any of my development tools. I will probably be here for about 2 more months.

I am ok with somebody else taking over development. Maybe you are willing to Post on PCF to find somebody? I can at least help out a bit to get somebody started. I got a mail from Google that the their map api will expire in November, so from that moment on there will no longer be a functional map. Quite some work has to be done to make that work again, and I really do not have the time for that right now.

Kind regards, ...
Click to expand...

Let me make it plain here, before anyone asks .. I have no formal training whatever in IT/programming, nor have I worked in that field.
What I've learned over the years, I've learned by experience, by asking questions, by making mistakes and learning to fix them (sometimes by asking someone else how they fixed them for me! :girl: )
Entropedia deserves better than that.

But I do know that there are some awesomely talented people who play EU, and surely there must be someone here who has the time, interest, and skills to help to continue to develop and maintain Entropedia for our community.

If you think you're that someone, or that there's someone you know who fits that description .. please either post here, and/or send me a pm here or ingame.

I'll send all responses on to Witte by email.
 
Serica,

it's a little hard to respond without knowing something about the implementation details. Can you find out:
- is it custom app or an off the shelf wiki that has had articles and data added.
- if its off the shelf, what is the base product
- if it's custom, what is the base language/platform, eg php, iis, apache, .Net, c# etc.
- assuming there is a database in there what is the database platorm, eg mysql, sql server, etc.

I have some IT skills from my work but it may not be a good fit with the needs of the site.

Regards,
KikkiJikki
 
No idea on if they'd be interested or anything, but maybe the folks that run http://www.entropiaplanets.com/wiki/EntropiaPlanets_Wiki would be interested in something like that to get the data over in that database matching entropedia or find the places they don't sync up and figure out where the problems are, so that they can get the data to match what really is in game, etc... Just a thought.
 
I would also need details. While I have no intention to spend a dime in EU as previously stated, I do believe in the sharing of knowledge. The wiki looks fairly simple, though some of the database stuff outwardly looks like Cold Fusion (which is now very outdated). This is just a guess.

Without further info, it would be hard for any of us with programming skills to jump on board.

That being said, the map issue is easily solved. Google is not the only map api around.
 
Re: the platform.

The tech underpinnigs i saw for it when i was helping get my skill calculator integrated were ASP and C# IIRC. As i know almost nothing about either, i can't give any more details. I just remember being disappointed it wasn't something less microsoftish.
 
I am familiar / comfortable with PHP / mysql.

Not done aspx based stuff before so no clue if any of my skills will be of use. Been years since I last touched C# as well.

If there is something that I think I can help out with, I may be willing to spend some time on it.
 
I am a professional developer for several years now. Though mainly not on .net platforms. However due to a technology change in my company we are focusing on .net with c# and ASP for web development recently. This could be a good opportunity for cross developing some skills.
However the spare time i have is also rare, but drop me a pm if i can help out somehow.

BR
 
I would offer, as I have been working with all of this data for some time now, but my own site keeps me busy, trying to get all of this same data displayed a little differently. I started programming just a couple years ago for this purpose. Writing the entire backend and functions myself without help though does take time. :(


In case something happens though I have all of the entropedia data ( a few images of it at different times actually..since the data changes) and more already in my own databases, a backup is out there if for some reason data dissappears or such. I can offer that much at least....
 
KijkkiJikki said:
...
it's a little hard to respond without knowing something about the implementation details. Can you find out:
- is it custom app or an off the shelf wiki that has had articles and data added.
- if its off the shelf, what is the base product
- if it's custom, what is the base language/platform, eg php, iis, apache, .Net, c# etc.
- assuming there is a database in there what is the database platorm, eg mysql, sql server, etc.
...
Click to expand...

That's a good point Kikki, and perhaps this needs to be answered by Witte first, so people have a better idea of what the site admin would entail. I'll post as soon as I get a response.

Thanks everyone else who's posted so far too :)

Forgo, the data isn't in danger, as Entropedia is hosted on 711's servers.
I can understand where you're coming from though, as I remember when Entropedia went off the air for a bit at the point between when Minder stopped playing and when Witte was able to contact him and take over the site admin.


----------------------------------------------------
There's no point bumping this until there's news from Witte, so I'll just keep adding notes here.
26Oct: Email sent to Witte with questions from Kikki above.
29Oct: No reponse as yet.
 
Last edited:
Witte says:
Witte said:
..Its a custom site. It is written in ASP.NET C# and uses a MySQL server for data storing...
Click to expand...

Hope this helps.
 
I dont know C# but i can certainly figure out enough to update the weapon chart calculation if i can browse through the code. It hasn't been fixed since the change to hit ratio.

ETA: I emailed him directly. I looked through a site download he sent me in 2008 and it was pretty cryptic, so I hope i can actually find where the code is to be fixed. :dunce:
 
Last edited:
Thanks to those of you who have posted so far.

Doer, if it was just a matter of finding and changing a formula, even I might be able to suss that much out :)
I think Witte would be looking for something a bit more than that though, before he'd pass over the responsibility as site admin.

Just a reminder to everyone that Entropedia needs an admin with skills in: ASP.NET; C#; and MySQL .. and the time and willingness to take this on.

Anyone else here ?

Anyone else you know of ingame, even if they're not a forum member?

Feel free to contact me by pm here or ingame about this btw.
 
Serica said:
Thanks to those of you who have posted so far.

Doer, if it was just a matter of finding and changing a formula, even I might be able to suss that much out :)
I think Witte would be looking for something a bit more than that though, before he'd pass over the responsibility as site admin.

Just a reminder to everyone that Entropedia needs an admin with skills in: ASP.NET; C#; and MySQL .. and the time and willingness to take this on.

Anyone else here ?

Anyone else you know of ingame, even if they're not a forum member?

Feel free to contact me by pm here or ingame about this btw.
Click to expand...

Of course. I'm not saying i'll take over as admin, and already said i didn't know the platform well enough for that.

However, in the absence of anyone that can do it or even with someone that can I would like to get the weapon chart fixed and can probably do it myself. If not, no harm done. Witte hasn't replied to my email yet so if you have contact with him through an account he checks more regularly than his gmail one, please ask him to reply when he has a minute. :)
 
C# ? Ewwww....

OK, fine. Somebody picked the language and framework and thats what we have to live with. IMHO the first step would be to put the code (and db schema) up on github or similar so we can look at it.
 
remontoire said:
C# ? Ewwww....

OK, fine. Somebody picked the language and framework and thats what we have to live with. IMHO the first step would be to put the code (and db schema) up on github or similar so we can look at it.
Click to expand...

I second that, so people actually can focus on special things and contribute that way and send in modified versions that can be implemented.

In addition to that a dump of the database table structures would help to set up a test system for someone who wants to start active development.
 
So, what you're suggesting is a team of developers who each contribute to different areas of the site?

Would I be right in thinking there still needs to be an administrator in that scenario, who facilitates and implements the different contributions? Someone who has the overall responsibility for the site, like a project manager?
 
Serica said:
So, what you're suggesting is a team of developers who each contribute to different areas of the site?

Would I be right in thinking there still needs to be an administrator in that scenario, who facilitates and implements the different contributions? Someone who has the overall responsibility for the site, like a project manager?
Click to expand...

Yes. It could be a team but imo to avoid the deadlocked battle of wills that sometimes comes up with equal authority it's best to have an admin with ultimate decision-making authority over what changes.

Basically they're suggesting making it open source.

However, before that can be done, we need to determine if the code is licensed (probably not) and if not Witte and Minder (?) need to agree on a license for it. I would suggest GPL which would ensure the culture of entropedia is maintained when it comes to (re)use of the code. I would be willing to release my small portion of the code under GPL.

Of course this is dependent on what prior code (if any) has been used in its development.
 
Serica said:
So, what you're suggesting is a team of developers who each contribute to different areas of the site?

Would I be right in thinking there still needs to be an administrator in that scenario, who facilitates and implements the different contributions? Someone who has the overall responsibility for the site, like a project manager?
Click to expand...

Yes, everyone who wants to contribute can do that in that way. Just send in patches or new pages which bring new tools. One "lead developer" or small tam who decides what can be deployed to production.

I think most people who are capable of coding such stuff are quite busy, but small contributions or corrections might fit their tight time schedules.
 
Ok, I'll send that to Witte as a suggestion then.


@remontoire: your post above this one looks like you might have put it in the wrong thread? :scratch2: do a 'report post' and let me know where it should be and i'll move it if you like.

------------------------------------------

Email sent to Witte, with discussion so far.
 
Last edited:
Serica said:
Ok, I'll send that to Witte as a suggestion then.


@remontoire: your post above this one looks like you might have put it in the wrong thread? :scratch2: do a 'report post' and let me know where it should be and i'll move it if you like.

------------------------------------------

Email sent to Witte, with discussion so far.
Click to expand...

Thanks Serica, that sounds great. Looking forward to it.
 
Doer said:
Yes. It could be a team but imo to avoid the deadlocked battle of wills that sometimes comes up with equal authority it's best to have an admin with ultimate decision-making authority over what changes.

Basically they're suggesting making it open source.

However, before that can be done, we need to determine if the code is licensed (probably not) and if not Witte and Minder (?) need to agree on a license for it. I would suggest GPL which would ensure the culture of entropedia is maintained when it comes to (re)use of the code. I would be willing to release my small portion of the code under GPL.

Of course this is dependent on what prior code (if any) has been used in its development.
Click to expand...

I would be happy to contribute even if the code is not licensed under an open source license. My comment was more about open access to the code than license. Its also hard to make any commitment without having seen the code.
 
remontoire said:
IIRC - 28 imp, 14 cut, 11 stab, 24 burn, 11 sharpnel, 32 pene. Its fairly expensive in tokens, 660 former mission tokens for harness, as an example.
Click to expand...

Very good armor for the lead admin, thank you for the suggestion for whomever takes the role. If I may offer a suggestion, though, 24 burn may not be enough. :eyecrazy:

My point was that if the code is going to be opened to the public it should probably be given a license that keeps its use open to maintain the same culture of sharing of information. Not that someone's likely to rip off the C# in their own project, but it's the principle.

I won't release the skill level to tt code without a copyleft license like that, as it was developed through the cooperation and assistance of several people in a nice community effort, but the skill calc portion of entropedia is a tiny bit of the whole and functional so it's not a huge problem.
 
For some time i have a idea in my head.
I think here is a good place to let it out to public.

I have a tool in mind that helps gathering ingame information.
e.g. assists with decay test, make screens of mission and get the text by ocr or tracking of mobs you shoot to generate a more accurate mob map.

The gathered information is then sent to a server and viewable via a website (something like entropedia).
On that website you can also see how often this information got confirmed by others, how it changed over the time or if the information is simply outdated.

I am a embedded software developer and would be able to write a tool to gather information. But i have no knowledge about sending it to a server.

I do not know if it is possible to do something like this with entropedia or if we need a completely new website.

Maybe a good time to make that decision.
 
No response from Witte as yet to last email sent on Nov6.
 
Why does the calculations have to be scripted server-side?

Maybe the entropedia site could be a data-repository with the free code for the client posted on say, git or similar. This way the maintainer would only govern what was used in latest official client update, but a user could effectively write their own variations. The website would be used by persons who did not have a client, for viewing, but not editing. As that would be done by client holders. The client holders in turn would not use a browser to access, present, and update the data as that would be done through the client.

The data server could easily authenticate data updates by running it through the project version calculations, where relevant, such as weapon compare, again allowing the user to modify their personal version if they did not agree with the latest update, or at least, be able to upload their own client versions for review by others.

Fairly wide brush stroke, but I hope the concept is clear. I mean, if there is gonna be a massive update anyway...
 
Pearwood said:
The data server could easily authenticate data updates by running it through the project version calculations, where relevant, such as weapon compare, again allowing the user to modify their personal version if they did not agree with the latest update, or at least, be able to upload their own client versions for review by others.
Click to expand...

But now consider armor adviser, where you have to transmit all armors and plates.
 
With my last email to Witte, I included an offer by my brother (who has 20+yrs professional experience in writing custom software for business, both in Australia and overseas - and currently owes me a couple of favours) to at least resolve the issues around the expiration of the Google map api.

This is Witte's reply:
Witte said:
Thanks for the update. I am afraid that the problem with the google map API is a bit larger than just updating some code. I think certain functions like poly drawings are no longer supported in the 3.0 API. The new API is actually a downgrade in functionality as google wanted it to work better on mobile devices. But if your brother want to give it a try that is fine by me.

As for putting the code on github, it is currently already in a depository. So I guess I can already quite easily make it public. Problem again is, that I have no access to all my developer tools. I can't even remeber which depository I put in on.

In december/januari I plan to take 2-3 weeks off from work, and I will also be home (in Holland) during that period. For me that would be the perfect period to sort all this out. Later in Januari I may move to the USA for a longer period, so I will probably not be able to help out for some time during that period.
Click to expand...

It looks like there can be no significant progress on this issue until Witte gets home in Dec/Jan.
 
Serica said:
With my last email to Witte, I included an offer by my brother (who has 20+yrs professional experience in writing custom software for business, both in Australia and overseas - and currently owes me a couple of favours) to at least resolve the issues around the expiration of the Google map api.

This is Witte's reply:


It looks like there can be no significant progress on this issue until Witte gets home in Dec/Jan.
Click to expand...

Well luckily that is not so far ahead, so i'm looking forward to it.
:wtg::wtg:
 
Serica said:
So, what you're suggesting is a team of developers who each contribute to different areas of the site?
Click to expand...
Considering github was mentioned, I take it to mean not a team but more "anyone interested to help improve ..." (read: Bazaar).
(please note I am NOT endorsing an "Open Source" license - I am all in favor of a Free Software license, perhaps especially GPLv3 in this case)

The site itself would still require an admin (or more, to prevent the current deadlock problem where a single person is "a single point of failure"). One role for that person/group would be to act as gatekeeper(s) - basically what Linus is to Linux nowadays - to have the final veto on submitted code.
 
Serica said:
Just a reminder to everyone that Entropedia needs an admin with skills in: ASP.NET; C#; and MySQL .. and the time and willingness to take this on.
Click to expand...
or one or more persons willing port it (away) from proprietary-only languages, tools and operating system(s?), followed by one or more admin(s) knowing the free (and mostly used) stuff?

Not saying it'd be to prefer, but I wouldn't rule out the option, considering the list of tools, operating system(?) and technologies are all proprietary (*), bloated, and costly.

Just an idea.

(*) including MySQL after Oracle bought Sun and fucked it all up
 
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