How to raise awareness of unreliable people and what to do with them?

Let me start from the beginning. While browsing the forum I noticed a buying thread for a commodity, I was wary at first as I had read several other threads by the poster which did raise the alarm bell in me. After several bumps to the thread I decided that I should not be prejudiced and that every1 should have a fair chance at proving themselves. I sent the buyer an offer through PM, stating the amount and price of the commodity I had. I purposely set a bit higher percentage on the batch I had as it was a larger amount and so that I could fall back a little if the buyer wanted to haggle a bit on the price (pretty much standard trading practice). To my surprise buyer promptly accepted my offer and we agreed on meeting up in game, quote from PMs

hi
got 305 cans of burgundy @ 115%
ingame now.
rgds,
sissi

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Sweet, i will do 115 % for a stack of that size. i got to find xxxxxxxx on quick to paint a piece to free up some peds, but i will defiantly take it for that price as soon as xxxxxxxx Gets on, i will add you in game

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This was on friday (1st october) in the evening. We started msging ingame promptly after the reply on forum and I got the impression that buyer was a decent enough person, so I offered that I would ask around to see if any1 on my FL has more of said commodity, while making me aware that he needed to free up some peds first, which I acknowledged. Meanwhile I did manage to find a friend who had another nice batch (doubling the amount actually), I said this to buyer who was happy that he would get a nice stack, I then proceeded and bought the stack from my friend at the same % I was gonna sell to buyer. Needless to say it was getting late and told buyer that I would be login off but available during the weekend. The next two days I pmed buyer several times without getting an answer (buyer was logged in several times for several hours each time during the weekend). I was starting to think that buyer might be afk crafting so I contacted the colorer buyer was dealing with, to my surprise buyer replied immediately to colorer's pm but still failed to do so to my pm.

Yesterday I saw that buyer had started a new buying thread regarding another item, I saw my chance at trolling a bit and posted a reply to thread where I stated that buyer is an unreliable person with links to other threads which made buyer look fishy to say the least. Buyer did reply to the thread in a somewhat foul language, rambling about mods not doing their job and me hijacking the thread and stating that he had had busy weekend (still managed to log in several times for several hours and answering colorer's pm) and that he had completed multiple transactions with other people prior to me. As I stated in my hijacking post I have no problem if buyer wants to back out of deal BUT I do expect an apology to do so (would have taken less than a minute to do so of buyer's precious time) or asks for more time to gather the peds (we are talking about appr. 120 peds, not really the LA or high-end item category...)

Naturally the mods deleted the posts regarding my hijacking (even reported my own post), but I do have a question to the mods who wrote to one of the deleted post that I should take it to buyer in PM, how and what am I supposed to do if buyer refuses to answer? Is it forum policy that people like buyer should be allowed to continue with their unreliable practice on forum? Is it not for the best of the community that people like that are flagged? Or should we just sit back and wait till someone actually suffers a financial setback?

Any1 who wants to know buyer's identity please PM request and I will answer.

Get used to it if you try to buy and sell on pcf. The lack of courtesy and the games people play when trying to negotiate any kind of deal is par for the course 80% of the time. It's actually much easier to try and remember the people who are straight forward and honest, and just assume everybody else will jerk you around without hesitation.

This is the relevant forum rule:

5.4 - Trading Execution
Any member who routinely fails to follow through on sales or purchases made in the Trading forum risks losing access to this portion of PlanetCalypsoForum. If you feel another member has acted unfairly in a Trading thread, or does not honor an agreement finalized in a Trading thread, please contact the Forum Staff explaining the issue, along with a link to the related Trading thread.

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Note that 'routinely' bit. The mods will be looking for a pattern of behaviour, not a one-off issue, before discussing with 711.
If you have a one-off issue with someone, discuss it with them via pm or visitor message. If you can't resolve it, report the trading thread that caused the issue (not a new one that the same person has created).

Note also that any final decision about restricting a member's access to the Trading Forum would be made by 711 as Forum Admin, not by a mod.

KyrismaStarsong said:

Get used to it if you try to buy and sell on pcf. The lack of courtesy and the games people play when trying to negotiate any kind of deal is par for the course 80% of the time. It's actually much easier to try and remember the people who are straight forward and honest, and just assume everybody else will jerk you around without hesitation.

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This. I like to deal with people who say to me ."Your price sucks" over someone who says ,"ok" but never shows up. I have often offered low on threads here and sometimes get what I want sometimes not, but my low offer was at least honest. Games are silly.

KyrismaStarsong said:

Get used to it if you try to buy and sell on pcf. The lack of courtesy and the games people play when trying to negotiate any kind of deal is par for the course 80% of the time. It's actually much easier to try and remember the people who are straight forward and honest, and just assume everybody else will jerk you around without hesitation.

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This. Also, people who don't even make the effort to communicate clearly, i.e., "hey dude r u rdy for trd", tend to be unwilling to make the effort to do business in a respectable manner.

Sissi said:

Is it not for the best of the community that people like that are flagged? Or should we just sit back and wait till someone actually suffers a financial setback?

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Would agree with you there. I think more should be done but it's difficult I suppose to come up with a rule that would single out the trouble makers and not have any side effects.

However we shouldn't take it for granted that nothing can be done because that would be admitting defeat.

With the current rules as they are it's pretty easy for the trouble makers to consistently abuse them to their own benefit at the expense of the innocent. From my own personal experience this applies to even high profile members who seem to have a very good image.

How about a third "skill" in the Social category, alongside Event Promoter and Reputation, entitled "Trade Reputation" or something? After completing a trade with someone, you may +1 or -1 their Trade Reputation, which starts at 1000. There should be a limit of 1 rep per traded avatar per 10 hours of in-game time, or something like that. It would still be possible to farm points, but that would require a LOT more effort than just making the attempt to communicate properly with your trading partners. I can't think of any negative implications. No one is "blacklisted" or "stuck" in a state of negative Trade Reputation, because one can improve their score at any time by performing honest trades. Unfortunately, it doesn't guarantee integrity from the malicious trader, just the lazy one.

TheOneOmega said:

After completing a trade with someone, you may +1 or -1 their Trade Reputation, which starts at 1000.

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Won't help though for a trade that didn't happen after you prepared for it, like in the OP situation.

P.S.: the name is apparent from context to anyone who watch the forum closely. Noted to myself.

Svarog said:

Won't help though for a trade that didn't happen after you prepared for it, like in the OP situation.

P.S.: the name is apparent from context to anyone who watch the forum closely. Noted to myself.

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Was really really trying to have it anonymous. Sorry for that.

TheOneOmega said:

How about a third "skill" in the Social category, alongside Event Promoter and Reputation, entitled "Trade Reputation" or something? After completing a trade with someone, you may +1 or -1 their Trade Reputation, which starts at 1000. There should be a limit of 1 rep per traded avatar per 10 hours of in-game time, or something like that. It would still be possible to farm points, but that would require a LOT more effort than just making the attempt to communicate properly with your trading partners. I can't think of any negative implications. No one is "blacklisted" or "stuck" in a state of negative Trade Reputation, because one can improve their score at any time by performing honest trades. Unfortunately, it doesn't guarantee integrity from the malicious trader, just the lazy one.

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Something like that wouldn't work because the culprits will farm this to have a good rating. For example pirates in space often have a good rating despite killing and looting people regularly.

That's unless there are some kind of measures to combat abuse like that.


The reality is in situations like this it's usually the innocent that will fall foul to these kind of rules because the real culprits always find a way around it. The innocent however make no alternative plans or in other words don't abuse the rules.



This can also be applied to people in general because I have come across high profile individuals who have a good reputation yet in my experience scam, cheat and lie. Makes me wonder how on earth do they have a good reputation? it's simple they always manipulate the environment around them and make a conscious effort to project a good reputation despite in reality conducting various scams.

Funny, I never had problems trading with him before. I just sold him my large batch of paint recently, which was much larger in quantities than yours.

833.37 PED TT worth of paints sold for 845 PED.

Well I gave one more last try to find out the reason behind his behavior (through PM as advised by the mods) and to be honest it was what I expected. Anyways lesson learned.

Quote Originally Posted by Sissi
Hi,

As I see it we have gone into bashing mode, which I don't really have a problem with. What I do have a problem with is that when you were logged on, whether it was some time into your session (I was presuming that you were afk crafting) or right after you logged on you failed to reply to my PMs, this was the first thing that got me mad. The second thing was when you replied to Leeloo's PM (which I requested L to do) and not to my PMs. I am really curious what your reaction would have been?

Rgds,

Sissi

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LeeLoo's PM'ing me happened to be nothing more than good timing Sissi, My computer is in my office and when i heard a global streak over the speakers i poked my head in to see what i got. The chat window was already open on my screen because i tried to message her 2 hours prior because she replied to my e-mail on g-mail. The reason i never bought your paint is because of your sub-par etiquette. which at this point really doesn't bother me, it seemed to be good advertising. I have been convo'ed so many times in game by people as a result its insane, all of them wanting to sell me paint, i have managed to buy over 10k ped worth of paint cans of all sorts for 101% and made a killing on the AH as a result. Jumping to conclusions was a poor choice on your behalf but in the end it worked out good for me. it is still a shame though, with the connections you have, if you would have just not jumped to conclusions and started trolling over it, there would have been plenty of room for you to profit off my wife and my desire to buy all paints. As it is now, were pretty much stocked up, and made over 1k ped profit off the paints we sold on AH that we didnt want to keep in stock.

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I especially liked the part concerning "global streak, to see what I got", must have been the crafter beside him.

You are just too funny! May I quote you, naturally anonymously?

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Do whatever you want bud, as far as i am concerned i have washed my hands of the whole situation and wrote you off as just another child in a video game who has no importance in their real life so you need to be a troll in a game to feel good about yourself. It's a complex that i find many develop in video games to offset their real life's and all i can do is just feel bad for them.

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@Toprez, thanks for the -rep, tho I don't understand the violation comment

Change the moderators of this forum back to original moderators/

summarise in 50 words and I will answer.