RockTropia might go into hibernation just like NI it seems. Can anyone confirm?

In comparing the two guns...

I thought there was only a 5% difference on the dpp?!
What is the selling price of the 'rock gun'?

edit: there is a 10% difference ~130% - ~140% according to entropedia. Accountable due to the increased range (cb27) and ~1pec/shot extra on the zk10 (which also has a bit less tt)

Seems the current MU's make it a difficult choice (parity) without doing some very specific calc's. In conclusion, your assessment is way off.

...one gun at 130% and one gun at 140% is 10% ABSOLUTE difference but only ~7.7% REAL difference...gotta compare apples to apples...

Brick
 
ND said this in this thread: http://www.neverdie.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18163

"A hypothetical Question.. Do we need to restrict the Import of L Weapons from other Planets to stimulate Demand for our own Weapons?
If great weapons can be manufactured cheaper on planets with more players, will that always have the impact of stunting our growth since those weapons are cheaper to import than the cost of Manufacturing from our own BPS

OR

Do we focus on marketing and growth and then Gradually Our Weapons may start to appear organically from Local Crafters and become competitive?

Do U prefer an Entirely free market on RT or would you prefer to see us create a controlled market to stimulate Growth?"

He then went on to so say "don't worry" and that they would NOT restrict import...he said this after reading our responses to his question (and also I would bet after MA said something if they read his hypothetical)

Regardless, restricting import is one thing...it can't/shouldn't be done...but his question opens up a very important line of thought regarding PP's own weapons being nerfed out of existence or becoming outdated with more and more Caly weapons that are better and better.

What I believe ND and other PP's SHOULD be doing is creating zones within their planets where only that planets items can be used. THAT would be allowed by MA.

Maybe that's what ARK will do with the underground...let all of us be able to make and fire Hermans again for use in a specific area.

Let all our shotguns on RT have a use somewhere, where ECO isn't the sole factor in loot return anymore.

Face it, if the common eco guns from Caly get you 90% return on RT or ARK, then using the shotguns or Hermans there with those loot rules would get you 82%-87% return. That makes those guns outdated and unusable. BUT, if you make zones where the 90% return is balanced to the few types of guns that are allowed into that zone (and those specific costs/kill with those weapons), then you just made those guns usable again.

That is the only solution that helps all, and harms none.

I really do believe that RT, ARK, CY would benefit from doing that. It stimulates the market for those planet specific items and comps, and it negates somewhat the impact of Caly being able to drop whatever they want with whatever eco they want.

If they AREN'T thinking this too, I would be shocked. They HAVE to be...otherwise Caly with just continue to kill them off.

I am of course not a high roller like you are.. and I don't really use L weaponry at all.
But I checked my inventory:

I have a baringer sr 37/beast combo for tagging (rt)
I use philosopher and archon swords (ancient greece)
I have fire dagger and desintegration swords (arkadia)
I sold the opalo sga and got an ozpyn lrsx/a101 combo (cyrene)
I have the bevis fire fire (cyrene)
I use the xent tech x3/a102 (cyrene)

My main armor is liakon (arkadia) and for robots I use mah'ketta (arkadia) and for leviathan and proteron in team I use viceroy (arkadia)

I don't actually use anything from calypso (my home) but the occasional fap-90 when I am not using the herb box (ancient greece)
 
If you dont think there is a difference between 2.863 and 2.962 then you are playing a completely different game than I am.

If you would like to give me 3.45% of all your hunts i would love that (its negligible)
If you would like to give me 3.45% on top of all my hunts I would love that (its negligible)

Are you retarded? I calculated the difference explicitly. No-one is giving anyone anything because the difference is managed through the mark up process - in this example 130% vs 140%, with the larger variance due to the greater range on the cb27 and it's greater tt value and it's smaller decay cost per shot as opposed to ammo. - All of which I have already stated above. Are you getting it yet?! If not you need to go back to school and learn basic arithmetic.
 
...one gun at 130% and one gun at 140% is 10% ABSOLUTE difference but only ~7.7% REAL difference...gotta compare apples to apples...

Brick

I didn't want to over complicate the maths with weighted averages, but your right.
 
I am of course not a high roller like you are.. and I don't really use L weaponry at all.
But I checked my inventory:

I have a baringer sr 37/beast combo for tagging (rt)
I use philosopher and archon swords (ancient greece)
I have fire dagger and desintegration swords (arkadia)
I sold the opalo sga and got an ozpyn lrsx/a101 combo (cyrene)
I have the bevis fire fire (cyrene)
I use the xent tech x3/a102 (cyrene)

My main armor is liakon (arkadia) and for robots I use mah'ketta (arkadia) and for leviathan and proteron in team I use viceroy (arkadia)

I don't actually use anything from calypso (my home) but the occasional fap-90 when I am not using the herb box (ancient greece)

I don't get what your point is...I have all those things too...what does that have to do with making a few zones for planet specific guns like BAMF or Hermans? I am just trying to think of ways to make certain items on different planets more usuable...
 
I thought there was only a 5% difference on the dpp?!
What is the selling price of the 'rock gun'?

edit: there is a 10% difference ~130% - ~140% according to entropedia. Accountable due to the increased range (cb27) and ~1pec/shot extra on the zk10 (which also has a bit less tt)

Seems the current MU's make it a difficult choice (parity) without doing some very specific calc's. In conclusion, your assessment is way off.

ZK10 DPP 2.863
cb27 2.962 diff 0.099,

0.099/2.863*100= 3.45%

Calculated dpp inc. dante amp

I calculated the difference explicitly. No-one is giving anyone anything because the difference is managed through the mark up process - in this example 130% vs 140%, with the larger variance due to the greater range on the cb27 and it's greater tt value and it's smaller decay cost per shot as opposed to ammo. - All of which I have already stated above.


You are not clear, and I do not think you know what you are talking about.
There are two parts to this which you dont always seperate. There is the dpp based on TT value, and there is dpp based on the markup paid for the gun.

To clarify, I will post both of those for you here.

This is calculated with all guns at TT value (no markup paid)
rockvscaly.jpg



This is calculated with your numbers of 130% for the ZK10 and 140% for the CB27
zk10cb27.jpg



TT Values:
ZK10 + Dante = 2.863
CB27 + Dante = 2.962

2.863/2.962 = 0.9666 or 3.34% difference
2.962/2.863 = 1.0346 or 3.46% difference

Markup Values: (based on your 130% and 140% valuations)
ZK10 + Dante = 2.792
CB27 + Dante = 2.890

2.792/2.890 = 0.9661 or 3.5% difference
2.890/2.792 = 1.0351 or 3.51% difference

Now lets discuss how these guns could be "equal" in terms of damage per pec.
CB27(@ 140%) + Dante = 2.89dpp
ZK10(@ 90%) + Dante = 2.89dpp

For round numbers and simplicity for those who dont want to "over complicate the maths"
If I loot a 200ped CB27 I can sell it for 280ped (80ped markup gained) or use it economicly.
If I loot a 200ped ZK10 I would have to sell it for 180ped (20ped under TT value) if the buyer wanted to have the same eco as when using the CB27. (or I could screw myself over and hunt with the bad eco myself)


.................................................

Are you retarded? Are you getting it yet?! If not you need to go back to school and learn basic arithmetic.

I didn't want to over complicate the maths with weighted averages, but your right.

I don't mind discussing things like this, or comparing how I came up with the conclusions I have, but if you continue to be abrasive You have provided me with a new signature.

The Retard said:
Are you retarded? Are you getting it yet?! If not you need to go back to school and learn basic arithmetic.
 
Are you retarded? I calculated the difference explicitly. No-one is giving anyone anything because the difference is managed through the mark up process - in this example 130% vs 140%, with the larger variance due to the greater range on the cb27 and it's greater tt value and it's smaller decay cost per shot as opposed to ammo. - All of which I have already stated above. Are you getting it yet?! If not you need to go back to school and learn basic arithmetic.

Ooohh be careful with calling other people stupid, especially if your own maths is way off, which i'm sure someone will point out to you in less friendly words pretty soon :)

Edit: lol it seems narfi was even faster then i thought :)
 
ZK10 DPP 2.863
cb27 2.962 diff 0.099,

0.099/2.863*100= 3.45%

Calculated dpp inc. dante amp

The dpp difference between Mod Merc + A204 and Karma Killer + A204 is 3.56% though.
 
The dpp difference between Mod Merc + A204 and Karma Killer + A204 is 3.56% though.

Trading Karma Killer for Mod Merc @ The Statue
 
Markup Values: (based on your 130% and 140% valuations)

They're not my valuations, they're the market valuations as detailed on Entropedia. The market (ie everyone who buys or sells) decide those values. There is a ~4% difference before markup, + ~1% (reduced armour decay due to range), + ~2% (more tt, less weapon decay per shot using cb27) = ~7% effective difference - which is the Market valuation to bring the weapons towards parity using the MU facility. This is what markets do. This is what is observed.

Either everyone in the market is stupid...or you are.
 
--mod's comment--

:offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic:

You want to debate the importance of DPP, please do so on another thread. If you wish, I can remove these posts and move them to their own thread where you can continue there.

--/mod's comment--
 
They're not my valuations, they're the market valuations as detailed on Entropedia. The market (ie everyone who buys or sells) decide those values. There is a ~4% difference before markup, + ~1% (reduced armour decay due to range), + ~2% (more tt, less weapon decay per shot using cb27) = ~7% effective difference - which is the Market valuation to bring the weapons towards parity using the MU facility. This is what markets do. This is what is observed.
How many ZK10s have you used? How many CB27s have you used?
How many ZK10s have you sold? How many CB27s have you sold?

To appease my own curiosity I looked you up on tracker, and it looks like you haven't the experience to use either or hunted mobs capable of looting them.

I would recommend you find a mentor in your time zone who is familiar with the history of the game, understands the economy, and can teach you how to research the best paths to take in the game.

Acknowledging that you are taking it off the topic of value to a player shooting the weapon, I will answer your questions about the markup values you found on Entropedia.info.

zk10mu.jpg

cb27mu.jpg


USER VALUE = some random guy put the price he wanted into the wiki and we do not know what motivation was behind that, it could be legit, it could be for selfish reasons (trying to sell a gun higher) etc... but we do know that it is not a current valuation as it also gives the date.

Perhaps I am too harsh on you. I have not used a cb27 or looted one either, I have looted a few ZK10s though and sold a couple while keeping one or two as finishers (I use melee as primary weapon) so that the bad eco wouldn't hurt my bottom line.







Either everyone in the market is stupid...or you are.
Signature changed as per your request.


*edit* sorry JC saw your post after i already posted.
To be fair though, the topic is hybernation of rocktropia, and the discussion is the difference between weapons on two different planets and held in the 'Other Planets' section. It is very much 'on topic' but I will respect your opinion and refrain from posting more
 
King Tut Lives!

:yay::ahh::yup::broke::drink::umn::nutkick::xmad::xconfused:
 
i dont see where this is heading at all

on a small scale 3% doesnt matter but on the big scale it does matter a lot ..wow!
 
I agree with Narfi...

--mod's comment--

:offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic:

You want to debate the importance of DPP, please do so on another thread. If you wish, I can remove these posts and move them to their own thread where you can continue there.

--/mod's comment--

...discussion of planetary differences in DPP and weapons costs is very relevant to a possible planet retirement or further irrelevancy of that planet...although some of the gun discussion became a little obtuse...heavy handedness in moderating the flow of a discussion that does have 'some' relevance makes a complete discussion of all issues related to the planet 'hibernation' difficult to have which is I'm sure not your intent...

Brick
 
You want to debate the importance of DPP, please do so on another thread. If you wish, I can remove these posts and move them to their own thread where you can continue there.

One thing to keep in mind, is that there was a big weapon rebalance last year or so.

First on arkadia, then on calypso. To make a long story short, the weapon rebalance generally made weapons 10% slower (at same skill level), but on the other hand more economical/decaying slower.

My guess is that, for good or bad(*) this rebalance hasn't occured on Rocktropia. This means that there is a a natural difference between weapons from calypso/arkadia and and weapons from Rocktropia. Again, more economic vs more dmg/sec.


(*) I liked weapons like Felis during big events like WoF and I don't have any repairable LR63 and I never looted any repairable sulfury/tesla Before they ceased to drop. On the other hand because of lower decay there is a reasonable supply of ranged weapons nowdays for grinding when you don't need that extra dmg/sec. On big mobs which hits often, like Eomon, the 10% lesser dmg/sec will get straight added to the fapping bill instead, and on regen mobs like spiders you spend more time shooting, meaning more ammo used and a sligtly higher cost in fapping.
 
...heavy handedness in moderating the flow of a discussion that does have 'some' relevance makes a complete discussion of all issues related to the planet 'hibernation' difficult to have which is I'm sure not your intent...

Brick

Couldn't have put it better +rep. Shame I can't comment on the mod...


My guess is that, for good or bad(*) this rebalance hasn't occured on Rocktropia. This means that there is a a natural difference between weapons from calypso/arkadia and and weapons from Rocktropia. Again, more economic vs more dmg/sec.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Perhaps dev's on RT haven't yet got round to updating their weapons.
 
I think you hit the nail on the head there. Perhaps dev's on RT haven't yet got round to updating their weapons.

Actually it would be fun with a mix.

For RT I'd suggest, don't scrap all "old" (L) weapons. Instead, keep a few of them as-is, and create a new range of eco weapons. There is need both for fast weapons, for dangerous mobs, and lesser fast weapons, for grinding and to use in places where you can't easily resupply (like NWO).

I can't recall which planet had the "PED pincher" weapons.

Rebalance of weapons I Think must be done by ND and MA together - maybe there is no time for it Before the "apocalypse".
 
The PED Pinchers series are actually crafted rock weapons and looked very promising prior to the new caly guns. however, the BP were limited and there were not enough crafters to generate enough drops to make crafting them a proposition. also most used some components that could be a bit hard to get as there are not enough hunters to hunt all the mobs.

overall though they were a good effort when they were introduced, except of course MA then had to yank the carpet out from under then with their new guns and what seemed like a BP drop rate based on caly kind of crafting turnover.



perhaps reducing the number of servers is best after all since there are large areas on rock that are unvisited. fewer servers will bring people together and perhaps make the community closer and concentrate user activity as well. it has always seemed it has been easier for MA to add land(servers) than to improve the game play experience. however, with MA obtuseness to doing anything useful with their advertising budget to draw new players in, it has the effect of just spreading the current user base further a field. this makes the whole of EU feel more empty than perhaps it is.

*note for above posts, if a guy dont know the difference between DPP at TT and DPP with MKup, then they are indeed playing a different game
 
Last edited:
Multi planet concept was not very deep thinked about by MA. Space mechanics and travel mechanics even less. So it's not Neverdie fault that his planet is barely doing average under such conditions. His fault was rather that he belived MA lies, but on the other hand he was so far sucesfull with them so he didn't have reasons to be suspicious.

MA made one of first "money heist" with PP wchich started the series ( Prot,CP, medusa, moon, MS, CLD's etc.). Game was doing ok years before without such.

Seriously, looking at how MA subsidiary treats its breading hand i feel real compassion to PP who have to deal with them. I bet every decision to put PP development on hold is partialy due to lack of MA support to PP and cooperation problems. We " hoi polloi " are proly not even aware of how many problems PP must solve to keep cooperation.

If MA is so arrogant towards PP as PC toward participants, then RT fail together with NI fail will not be last. Proly stronget planets like ARK will survive next year or two ( if MA holds so long )

Still i am hoping that's just typical "drama PR" from ND and nothing bad will hapen really.
 
personally i think one the biggest problems with rocktopia's launch was ND studios had plenty of imagination, talent, and drive but little focus on project management or business processes. also perhaps ND himself had to many things on his plate to spend the needed time guiding things along
 
I was always under the impression that all the PPs had to generate a good portion of their own playerbase for each planet. I think some have done this better than others. Will RT go the way of NI? I can't say but why is it thar Arkadia seems to be doing OK and I think the slow and steady Cyrene will ramp up over time. Is that due to their content being similar to Calypsos and fits more into the style of Entropia Universe? Maybe or do they have a better pulse of the people who play and those who might play EU? I don't like to see a PP go down but I knew some would rise and others would fall.

Lastly I've always wondered if the perceived MA/ND fishyness over the years would finally rear its ugly head and maybe it has. I know it stopped me from going to RT as well as some other things that happened since PPs were implemented.

Ahhh well it is what it is. Overall the more people PPs and Calypso bring in the more successful everyone will be.
 
...heavy handedness in moderating the flow of a discussion that does have 'some' relevance makes a complete discussion of all issues related to the planet 'hibernation' difficult to have which is I'm sure not your intent...

Brick


With a view to this holistic approach in understanding where we are at I'll do a short summary.

RT - Not doing so well due to lack of basic developments in planetary economy that are needed. Further compounded by image issues which are sometimes deserved sometimes not. Basically doing some "dodgy" things and getting caught doing them. Also they have no community manager or made any efforts in "manufacturing" an image. (which is actually a good thing in my books). Their image is not helped by attacks on RT by Arkadia.

Arkadia - Unknown how they are doing since no results have been published. They do however, present an image they are doing well. Generally Arkadia is very much media focused in "manufacturing" a good image for themselves. They also seem to have have a good understanding of planetary economies and have made efforts to develop an independent economy to some good results (although some issues are blanked out or swept under the carpet). The key to their success has been to focus on economy and image control to the extent that negative opinions about their planet can result in forum account bans or pressure applied to other forums to target posts that may present any negative image. So far both of these have been successful in blanking out any negative opinions. This together with enculturation of players to their view of the world through various means they have been very succesfull not only in stifling negative opinion but hiding their true face. Which is far dodgier than any other PP. Note I am unable to back this up with details because that may result in this post being deleted.

Calypso - Oldest of the Planets with well established systems in place. They also have an image problem due to lack of communication. Plus player base unwilling or unable to understand the reason(s) for this lack of communication. This also places them prone to attacks from Arkadia and their sympathizers who may use the lack of communication as a bashing tool.

NI - It's main problem was lack of understanding by the person(s) in charge of games development or indeed how best to develop their planet. Since leadership in this was weak they were not focused enough to develop or concentrate efforts on the right things. So their planet was weak in economy, poorly designed activities etc and poor marketing.


Cyrene - Awaiting to launch so would be unfair to comment on.
 
Hello,

New avatar here. I chose calypso as main planet, currently on arkadia, planning to go to rocktropia on hunt the thing. I read that when you finish discipleship on caly, you get pixie, on ark you get muska, what i get if i finish on rocktropia? I wanna try hunt the thing mission. Chipped in some skills, bought some nice gun, think i can handle the thing.
 
If you are going to "hunt the thing" you better get to RT very quickly since it'll be gone sometime before this month is out.
 
Chipped in some skills, bought some nice gun, think i can handle the thing.

Chipped in skills? oh my!

The thing can be handled by a new player provided there is someone there to heal. TT gun from Arctic was enough, but for sure you have something better by now.

As was said, if things go as planned, on 10th December (Tuesday) Arctic will be no more.
 
--Mod's comment--

Seems there was some misunderstanding of my problem with off-topic posts.

The talk of differences between weapons from different planets is one thing, (assuming the discussion in this case is about the possible loss of desired RT weapons) but there became a whole long discussion about whether the percent difference of DPP between two weapons (not even RT weapons mentioned sometimes) was even really worth worrying about. Even you folks saw that.

although some of the gun discussion became a little obtuse...

So once again. If you have something to say about the possible upcoming future of RT and its effects, fine have fun. Other stuff, (including attacking other planets) please talk about it elsewhere.

--/Mod's comment--
 
Got everything i needed from hunt the thing. Very nice scenery, very addictive. I just loved the snowy surroundings and the mission, really terrific. Too bad its going to be terminated. I was really immersed in the whole thing.

Rocktropia apocalypse, might be good if one planet collides with the other, creating one big new planet with all mutated monsters etc... Rocktropia apocalypse.... Erupting, creating several smaller mini planets, every one specialized in some level of mobs, the most remote mini planet has highest level mobs, those closer to the center of galaxy-universe, have smaller level mobs. Closer planets are easier to travel etc...

I chose laser, but BLP guns sound so much better. Is there some BLP eco handgun-rifle, that is unL, and maxed around level 12-15 and sounds badass good:silly2:
 
Back
Top