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PVP4 - legal or illegal?

J

j0k3r

Old
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Posts
80
Location
Austria
Avatar Name
Mark The JOKER Piripower
hey

was thinking about this since some time and want to start here a thread to discuss this ...
worldwide is robbery illegal, but not in this game. i´ve heard from people who were looted and lost 20k or 40k peds ... and it is all about real money. if you don´t invest real money then it doesn´t matter, but when you loose real money then i think this is not ethnical correct.
of course you can say "you don´t need to go to pvp4 zones", but then you can also say "stay always in the house in RL, then you also don´t get robbed".

possible solutions:
1) keep it like it is
2) change all pvp4 to pvp3
3) change space pvp4 to pvp3 or planet pvp4 to pvp3
4) change it like this when you get looted in pvp4 your looter gets a special amount, like 10% of your lootable stuff and not all

what do you think?
 
j0k3r said:
of course you can say "you don´t need to go to pvp4 zones", but then you can also say "stay always in the house in RL, then you also don´t get robbed".
Click to expand...

That's the most ridiculus comparison possible, and one that is always used in discussions like this I've noticed... :rolleyes:



No, that's not the same. When you leave your house IRL you are not entering a specifically designated zone while implicitly accepting the terms of that area which you know beforehand.

If you wanted to compare it to some real life event, complaining about being looted in lootable PvP would be more like entering a paintball competition and then whining about getting paint all over you.
 
Killing people is not ethically correct. Remove PVP3.
Killing animals is not ethically correct. Remove PVE.
And so on.

Aren't games the places where we go to do stuff that we don't usually do in RL?

While I'm totally not into pvp of any kind and hate when my unarmed quad gets blown in space again and again, I see lootable pvp an essential part of the game.
 
i didn´t got looted, it´s not about that
i just want to know what people think about it
 
Svarog said:
Aren't games the places where we go to do stuff that we don't usually do in RL?
Click to expand...

true, i like this also, but what do you think about the big difference to a lot of other games to loose real money?
 
j0k3r said:
possible solutions:
1) keep it like it is
4) change it like this when you get looted in pvp4 your looter gets a special amount, like 10% of your lootable stuff and not all
Click to expand...

There are some players who like lootable pvp, so I say keep the area.
Just make sure:
- It's completely voluntary to enter (with the obvious exception you're looking for Resources that's only there)
- It's completely safe from accidental entering; make sure areas stay on maps even at major VU transitions, and/or if the borders or locations change, and make sure you can't enter or remain in the area without a safetyguard (ie antitoxic shot)
- It's possible to exit at any time. In case of Death, revival should be either outside the perimeter, or there should be a teleporter or simular device within the revive safe area.

As for suggestion 4, I got the feeling that if would be possible to keep a share when killed and looted, it would attract more players than the hardcore pvp:ers, risktakers and "exploiters" (those who stay alive using misc legal or less legal tricks).

Since introduction of pvp4, I've seen it as a playground for ubers.
 
@aia
true, you need a antitoxic shot when you enter pvp4 on a planet, but not in space
> suggestion 4, i´m also sure that more people would risk it, so there would be more people with loot in pvp4, means, i guess, more fun for the pvp-players and more loot
 
j0k3r said:
true, i like this also, but what do you think about the big difference to a lot of other games to loose real money?
Click to expand...

Possibility to lose real money always goes hand in hand with possibility to win real money, so just having real money in game as a factor doesn't affect anything. If losing money is not fair then withdrawing more than you deposited is nor fair either, but without that it wouldn't be a RCE.

"Always stay in your house in RL" is not a realistic scenario, while you can play for years without entering any pvp, and you can't find yourself in pvp4 accidentally, it always is a deliberate choice. Those who enter pvp4 planetside do that in expectation of special loot/ores. Those who fly in space are making a choice between saving on warp fees and safety of their goods. Every risk brings a possible profit.
 
Best quote ever!!!

j0k3r said:
of course you can say "you don´t need to go to pvp4 zones", but then you can also say "stay always in the house in RL, then you also don´t get robbed"
Click to expand...

how hard can it be??? don't enter pvp4 if you don't like to be looted.

have seen a few post like this. don't enter the zone if you don't want to be looted.

(not on topic, but i don't care)
 
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Bengha said:
how hard can it be??? don't enter pvp4 if you don't like to be looted.

have seen a few post like this. don't enter the zone if you don't want to be looted.
Click to expand...

When VU10 came, all pvp areas was zapped from map, *and* pvp4 was moved from the west part of akmuul Island to the east part. On top of that you could enter one time without antitoxic shot. Also pvp4 border was pretty Close to the TP/servicecenter.

(Of course the opposite happened: A few miners who teleported into what they thought was pvp4 got a nasty surprice when they realized they landed in an atrox land area...)

When Rocktroia came, "center stage" area (a part of stadium area) was lootable pvp (red), and the areas around it was normal pvp (orange). The problem was the entire area was a land area, so on top of the red and orange zones there was a big green shade - this leading to it was hard to see where lootable pvp begun. Some players took advantage of this, by waiting at the "gate" between beergarden and center stage, and killed anyone who was unaware of the lootable area.

Then, at a later VU, for some time the lootable pvp3 area was zapped from maps, and even if you entered it it wouldn't come back. (This is fixed now though.)

Before VU10, there was big signs (boards) around the pvp3 border telling with big letter you are entering a pvp area ("Warning: Player vs player protection disabled beyond this Point /Project entropia administration"). (There were also such signs near pvp1. No signs around pvp2/oil rig area though.) The Music also was different when you were in a pvp area. Another thing was that when you were Close to toxic zone border there was a ticking sound (as from a Geiger counter) that got louder and louder the closer to the border you got.
 
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aia said:
Before VU10, there was big signs (boards) around the pvp3 border telling with big letter you are entering a pvp area ("Warning: Player vs player protection disabled beyond this Point /Project entropia administration").
Click to expand...

Miss those so much, they always did scare the shit out of me as a new player :D
 
I don't think so because when looting someone you don't actually loot real money, it is only a RL currency once MA reimburses you for your virtual assets. So technically you are looting nothing but worthless virtual assets, it only turns into valuable Rl assets once you 'sell' your virtual assets back to MA.
 
I've been looted in PVP, I think it's fine how it is. There are warnings before you enter space, you can't go into lootable pvp areas on planet without purchasing and using an anti-toxic shot. It's not an accident if you find yourself in a lootable area. As for getting looted for 20-40k, why would you carry that much loot in a pvp area? If you mean space, well, that's why we have mother ships and people that fly escorts for a fee.
 
I've actually had this conversation with a couple people recently. I don't approve of it, and don't think highly of those who "exploit" it, but there's no denying the game was designed to allow looting in PvP and actually expects it and promotes it by putting increasingly all the markup resources in there as bait.

fattyboy43 said:
I don't think so because when looting someone you don't actually loot real money, it is only a RL currency once MA reimburses you for your virtual assets. So technically you are looting nothing but worthless virtual assets, it only turns into valuable Rl assets once you 'sell' your virtual assets back to MA.
Click to expand...

If it were that simple, the case of the bot hunting players who were locked wouldn't have dragged on for so long. The reality is a court wouldn't necessarily take that view of things if it came to legal proceedings.
 
Svarog said:
Aren't games the places where we go to do stuff that we don't usually do in RL?

While I'm totally not into pvp of any kind and hate when my unarmed quad gets blown in space again and again, I see lootable pvp an essential part of the game.
Click to expand...

Not to get into this all that much, but just like lootable space at some point MA could have legal issues regarding pvp4. Your example above left out one important item that makes this game different then other games. In other games, you can play all day and kill as much as you like and even be a pirate and take as much money as you would like to. The difference of course is with other games, the money is more or less worthless were as in this game, the money has a true RL value.

Also a lot side with the idea that this is needed feature of the game but forget the legal issues. Unlike killing other people in this game, your RL avatar isn't hurt in any way**. Now what if we were to say that if someone did kill you in game, you will need to be killed in RL as well? If not please explain why this would be illegal?
 
YES! I am not responsible for my own decisions! I should be able to go into PVP and not be molested!


If I cant I'm gunnna lawyer up by God!







fmtt
 
OZtwo said:
The difference of course is with other games, the money is more or less worthless were as in this game, the money has a true RL value.
Click to expand...

There are no legality problems as long as you don't see PED as real money. MA isn't a bank or a payment system, you don't really "deposit". What you transfer to MA is real money, what you have withdrawn back to the bank is real money, but in-between it's an item with no value outside of the system, like monopoly bills. If you remember EULA, MA has limited its liability to the amount of deposits for the last 6 months, and only to TT values. You can't seriously refer to something like that as "real money" and try to apply RL norms.

It all comes down to the everlasting dispute about the legitimacy of the EULA. If one believes that it's invalid and won't stand a court, then the whole game is seen as illegal and all discussions about legality of any ingame activities are meaningless. If one acknowledges that document as legal, then everything that happens inside the game is totally outside any RL jurisdictions and laws and rules. In short, from RL POV either everything in game is legal, or everything is illegal.
 
To be honest I see the purpose of PvP4 protecting the economies of planets, but does it really? Millions of Ped TT value gear and mats are transported between planets each week on Motherships.
I think the safe zones around space stations need to be bigger. I think space should be non-lootable PvP except in zones where valuable items can be looted or materials mined. I don't think PvP 4 for the whole of space serves any purpose but to make life miserable for those who don't use motherships.
 
Few Scars said:
To be honest I see the purpose of PvP4 protecting the economies of planets, but does it really? Millions of Ped TT value gear and mats are transported between planets each week on Motherships.
I think the safe zones around space stations need to be bigger. I think space should be non-lootable PvP except in zones where valuable items can be looted or materials mined. I don't think PvP 4 for the whole of space serves any purpose but to make life miserable for those who don't use motherships.
Click to expand...

exactly, pretty much the same mechanics we have planets side with pvp lootable
 
If you lose 20k or 40k in pvp4 you are too stupid to even be playing this game.
 
there's a warning, enter at your own risk! :handgun::cry::rocket:
 
j0k3r said:
hey

was thinking about this since some time and want to start here a thread to discuss this ...
worldwide is robbery illegal, but not in this game. i´ve heard from people who were looted and lost 20k or 40k peds ... and it is all about real money. if you don´t invest real money then it doesn´t matter, but when you loose real money then i think this is not ethnical correct.
of course you can say "you don´t need to go to pvp4 zones", but then you can also say "stay always in the house in RL, then you also don´t get robbed".

possible solutions:
1) keep it like it is
2) change all pvp4 to pvp3
3) change space pvp4 to pvp3 or planet pvp4 to pvp3
4) change it like this when you get looted in pvp4 your looter gets a special amount, like 10% of your lootable stuff and not all

what do you think?
Click to expand...
So you've also been thinking about whether play poker is illegal? It's also real money that you win or lose.

If it's illegal somewhere it might be because of the gambling laws. Is Poker gambling or a game of skill? Is Entropia? Depends how you play it in both cases imo.

But no way can it be illegal because of the similarities with robbery. It's a game, remember? ;)
 
j0k3r said:
hey

was thinking about this since some time and want to start here a thread to discuss this ...
worldwide is robbery illegal, but not in this game. i´ve heard from people who were looted and lost 20k or 40k peds ... and it is all about real money. if you don´t invest real money then it doesn´t matter, but when you loose real money then i think this is not ethnical correct.
of course you can say "you don´t need to go to pvp4 zones", but then you can also say "stay always in the house in RL, then you also don´t get robbed".

possible solutions:
1) keep it like it is
2) change all pvp4 to pvp3
3) change space pvp4 to pvp3 or planet pvp4 to pvp3
4) change it like this when you get looted in pvp4 your looter gets a special amount, like 10% of your lootable stuff and not all

what do you think?
Click to expand...

Are yiou not that world known Peace maker that says : peace for everyone ?
 
It's "legal", it's a part of the game. To be honest, it's the only part of the game where you get some adrenaline rush, because you must stay alert. So even if i'm not there often, it's a fun part of the game when you want to make it a bit more fun. At the same time I have often advocated solution "4" in space, maybe you should only loose 25-40 % of your stackables when your are killed.
 
j0k3r said:
hey

was thinking about this since some time and want to start here a thread to discuss this ...
worldwide is robbery illegal, but not in this game. i´ve heard from people who were looted and lost 20k or 40k peds ... and it is all about real money. if you don´t invest real money then it doesn´t matter, but when you loose real money then i think this is not ethnical correct.
of course you can say "you don´t need to go to pvp4 zones", but then you can also say "stay always in the house in RL, then you also don´t get robbed".

possible solutions:
1) keep it like it is
2) change all pvp4 to pvp3
3) change space pvp4 to pvp3 or planet pvp4 to pvp3
4) change it like this when you get looted in pvp4 your looter gets a special amount, like 10% of your lootable stuff and not all

what do you think?
Click to expand...

total bullshit, pvp 4 is a high risk area , with if you able to survive can pay of big (so i heard i wont go there because i dont want to get looted). It is part of the game and can not be compared to real life. If you risk 10k ped here , you doing it willingly and knowingly (unless you get tricked but that is being scammed and a total diffrent set of rules).

If you walking acros the street and someone robs you i assume you dident get a warning that all you stackables might be looted up on entering that area.... (if so that area should be handled real life, a game should not change to prevend pointles bulshit comparing towards real life).
 
Few Scars said:
To be honest I see the purpose of PvP4 protecting the economies of planets, but does it really? Millions of Ped TT value gear and mats are transported between planets each week on Motherships.
I think the safe zones around space stations need to be bigger. I think space should be non-lootable PvP except in zones where valuable items can be looted or materials mined. I don't think PvP 4 for the whole of space serves any purpose but to make life miserable for those who don't use motherships.
Click to expand...

this is an interesting idea, special pvp4 areas in space, like on planets, with special mobs/ressources - you don´t need to go there, but you are able too.

thanks all for your feedback
 
Neil Stockton said:
IRL, illegal, in game, legal.
Click to expand...

There was a time
(namelly in Ancient Rome)
that it was legal to kill others inside an arena



Tycoon said:
there's a warning, enter at your own risk! :handgun::cry::rocket:
Click to expand...
Needs a bit of fixing

Currently the only issue that I have is that it possible to enter space without geting a warning that you could be looted.
I don't find acceptable that a passenger gets taken their possessions without a fair warning of what could happen to him.
 
j0k3r said:
hey

was thinking about this since some time and want to start here a thread to discuss this ...
worldwide is robbery illegal, but not in this game. i´ve heard from people who were looted and lost 20k or 40k peds ... and it is all about real money. if you don´t invest real money then it doesn´t matter, but when you loose real money then i think this is not ethnical correct.
of course you can say "you don´t need to go to pvp4 zones", but then you can also say "stay always in the house in RL, then you also don´t get robbed".

possible solutions:
1) keep it like it is
2) change all pvp4 to pvp3
3) change space pvp4 to pvp3 or planet pvp4 to pvp3
4) change it like this when you get looted in pvp4 your looter gets a special amount, like 10% of your lootable stuff and not all

what do you think?
Click to expand...

better yes, I stay on one planet for weeks just because i am to lazy to go into space and risk to get looted I dont like to leave all my loot and stuff in one planet only .
 
The way I see it.. the anti-toxic shot is an admission you accept responsibility in pvp3/4.
 
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