PVP4 - legal or illegal?

It can not be illegal because we do not own anything inside the game:

Entropia Universe End User License Agreement said:

Virtual items are fictional in-world graphical objects with a predefined set of parameters in Entropia Universe and will often have names similar or identical to corresponding physical categories such as "people", "real estate", "possessions”, “currency”, “cloths” and the names of specific items in those categories such as "house", "rifle", "tools", "armor", “coat”, “money” etc. (“Virtual Items”). Despite the similarity in terminology, all Virtual Items, including virtual currency, are part of the Entropia Universe System and/or features of the Entropia Universe, and MindArk and/or respective Mindark’s Planet Partner(s) retains all rights, title, and interest in all parts including, but not limited to Avatars, Skills and Virtual Items. These retained rights include, without limitation, patent, copyright, trademark, trade secret and other proprietary rights throughout the world. Notwithstanding any other language or context to the contrary, as used in this EULA and/or in the Entropia Universe in the context of Virtual Items, You expressly acknowledge that all terms like “exchange of”, “trade with”, “purchase of”, “sale of” or “use of” Virtual Items, and all similar terms in context of transactions with Virtual Items, refers to the licensed right to use a certain feature of the Entropia Universe or the Entropia Universe System in accordance with the terms and conditions of this EULA.

As part of Your interactions with the Entropia Universe, You may also, “construct”, “craft”, “compile”, “design”, “modify” or in any other way “create” Virtual Items. Notwithstanding any other language or context to the contrary, as used in this EULA and/or in the Entropia Universe in the context of the in-world creation of Virtual Items, You expressly acknowledge that You do not obtain any ownership right or interest in the Virtual Item You “create” but all such terms refer to the licensed right to use a certain feature of the Entropia Universe System or the Entropia Universe in accordance with the terms and conditions of this EULA. For clarity, MindArk and/or the respective MindArk’s Planet Partner retains all rights, title and interest to all Virtual Items You create in-world.

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Thus; if one get looted in PVP, what legally happens is that the game mechanics transfers the license for using the loot in question from the looted to the looter

SanSiim said:

If you lose 20k or 40k in pvp4 you are too stupid to even be playing this game.

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Agreed with u man, imho pvp is big fun ingame really, if u tired of mining or hunting, welcome to pvp, i love pvp, but maybe some things should be changed, like open radar for me

atomicstorm said:

The way I see it.. the anti-toxic shot is an admission you accept responsibility in pvp3/4.

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Yeah. It's a good featuer to prevent unaware people to wander into the zone.

It would be nice to, as a reminder, see your antitoxic status on the HUD; and either a way to automatically dump all your lootables into storage (including inside containers) or to be able to see if you carry any lootables, so you don't bring anything into lootable pvp that you didn't intend to bring there.

It would also be good for security if all toxic zones get into the map automatically for everyone, so if you get the toxic shot for going into pvp4, you won't walk into pvp3 by mistake because pvp3 wasn't on your map.

Seems like someone starts a thread like this at least once every year about whether or not PvP4 is legal or illegal...

If you don't want to be looted don't pay the shot and hunt/mine in lootable.

aia said:

Yeah. It's a good featuer to prevent unaware people to wander into the zone.

It would be nice to, as a reminder, see your antitoxic status on the HUD; and either a way to automatically dump all your lootables into storage (including inside containers) or to be able to see if you carry any lootables, so you don't bring anything into lootable pvp that you didn't intend to bring there.

It would also be good for security if all toxic zones get into the map automatically for everyone, so if you get the toxic shot for going into pvp4, you won't walk into pvp3 by mistake because pvp3 wasn't on your map.

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Sometimes, like this game, you just need to be aware of your surroundings and also what you have in your inventory. If you forget you have something, that is your mistake... learn your lesson and move on.

j0k3r said:

hey

was thinking about this since some time and want to start here a thread to discuss this ...
worldwide is robbery illegal, but not in this game. i´ve heard from people who were looted and lost 20k or 40k peds ... and it is all about real money. if you don´t invest real money then it doesn´t matter, but when you loose real money then i think this is not ethnical correct.
of course you can say "you don´t need to go to pvp4 zones", but then you can also say "stay always in the house in RL, then you also don´t get robbed".

possible solutions:
1) keep it like it is
2) change all pvp4 to pvp3
3) change space pvp4 to pvp3 or planet pvp4 to pvp3
4) change it like this when you get looted in pvp4 your looter gets a special amount, like 10% of your lootable stuff and not all

what do you think?

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1) Running around with weapons is illegal. remove all weapons from EU.
2) There are no street signs or speed limit signs for vehicle, this could cause an accident in RL, get rid of all cars.
3) You need an FAA license to fly aircraft, there is no licensing authority in EU, get rid of all aircraft.
4) I can see boobies when female avatars wear clothing that is revealing, get rid of all boobies!
5) Manufacturing can be dangerous in RL, you must wear safety equipment when manufacturing, there is no safety equipment or an "occupational health and safety association" in EU, get rid of all crafting!
6) Swimming can be dangerous, we shouldnt allow avatars to swim under water without running out of breath, GET RID OF ALL WATER THAT IS MORE THAN WAIST DEEP!
7) Mining can have a negative effect on the planet.... GET RID OF MINING OMG!!!!
8) etc.. etc... etc....

i present to you, the new EU!

MG Mighty said:

Currently the only issue that I have is that it possible to enter space without geting a warning that you could be looted.
I don't find acceptable that a passenger gets taken their possessions without a fair warning of what could happen to him.

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You get a warning right before you enter space that says exactly that... or are we playing different games?

lyosha said:

You get a warning right before you enter space that says exactly that... or are we playing different games?

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not sure if the passenger gets the warning though...

lyosha said:

You get a warning right before you enter space that says exactly that... or are we playing different games?

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(I know that the pilot gets a warning)

but

Have you entered space as a passenger ?

jqkill said:

not sure if the passenger gets the warning though...

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They don't get a warning nor a choice to stop the process once inside they are at the mercy of the good will of the pilot
(I never got a warning say that the pilot could take me to a lootable pvp zone that had a barrier preventing me from entering unless I expressly took actions to accept the risks associated with such event).

MG Mighty said:

(I know that the pilot gets a warning)

but

Have you entered space as a passenger ?




They don't get a warning nor a choice to stop the process once inside they are at the mercy of the good will of the pilot
(I never got a warning say that the pilot could take me to a lootable pvp zone that had a barrier preventing me from entering unless I expressly took actions to accept the risks associated with such event).

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i guess i've never been a passenger... kind of hard to shoot people down in space with the kismet as a passenger ><

I want more PVP4 where we can loot noobs around Arrival Area. PVP4 is a must, if you fear then don't go around PVP4

I love to see what would happen if someone got an ATH in PvP4; let's say 200k in stackables and oil. Just to get one-shot by a pk'er.

I'dd love to the see what happens then. Until then; all these threads are just speculation and lead nowhere.
btw, we need bigger mobs in toxic zones; mobs that give large ATH's...

When you enter into pvp4 it's basically like entering into a societal contract within game. You give up certain rights (the ability to be looted and killed) in order for the reward of potentially higher markup materials. All the while one knows the exact risks of entering pvp4.

Like others have already stated, if you don't like the idea of lootable pvp then stay away from pvp4, and don't carry loot into space.. it's really quite simple.

I personally dont support restrictions means taking away freedom of gameplay. People dealing with big sums of money should be clever enough to do stuff safely and inform themselves about areas they need to pass and come up with strategies or call their friends to help if theres a need for taking big wealth from one place to another.
And what was posted about the PvP zone changes and people getting killed and looted because they didnt know about the new PvP areas is developers fault, not gamers. People just used the system for their advantage. It was game developer who didnt give out info about new zones and didnt warn people. IMO its pretty serious because this game deals with real money. So yeah, my two cents

atomicstorm said:

Sometimes, like this game, you just need to be aware of your surroundings and also what you have in your inventory. If you forget you have something, that is your mistake... learn your lesson and move on.

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This isn't WoW or any other game like that where lootable pvp is a core part. Also, unlike other games, items (here stackables) has a fixed value (TT-value) that corresponds to real World currency.

Imho, in this game, lootable pvp is (should be) an option, an additional arena one enter willingly and knowingly, not something one stumble into by mistake.

[K]apat[s] said:

PvP zone changes and people getting killed and looted because they didnt know about the new PvP areas is developers fault, not gamers. People just used the system for their advantage.

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Yes, of course. Bugs and misfeatures, and cheat and exploits in lootable pvp should be both responsibilitiy by players to report, and developers to act on asap. Having a bug like the radar bug half a year is unacceptable, for instance.

As long as lootable pvp is safe (from accidental entering/voluntary) and fair (for the people who engages in a fight) I don't see any problem with it. (There are some other concerns, but they are simular to dropping of items in public areas.)

Though, if people use things like speed hacks and radar exploit for their own advantage, it's a break against the fairness part, or if they use ignorance or pure mistakes (summon random people into a ship that will be shot down on purpose) it's a break against the "safe" part. If there is a risk players will lose Money (TT-value) because of use of cheats the developers should Close area (if it's a general problem) or lock players (if it's a problem caused by a small number of players) immdiately until it's been investigated, and if necessary, fixed.

Since there will Always be a handful players who doesn't have the gut feeling when they are uing an exploit (such as radar bug or speedhacks) unfairly and will continue to use the methods until they are "physically" stopped, developers needs to stop such abuse methods even if it means temporarily closing area/locking players or disable pvp.

As for things like (lootable) pvp areas not showing on map, it's clearly developers' responsibility. It's both easy to check (just open up map), and probably as easy to fix/prevent from happening (make sure all players get the lootable pvp areas on their maps and make sure they aren't removed in VUs where they are moved to a new location).

One thing that would be nice would be possibility to remove antitoxic shot (without having to ask someone to shoot you), and some token item (can be availible in trade terminals) you need to survive in lootable areas in space (to, for instance, prevent beginners to get stranded in space).

Nighthawk said:

That's the most ridiculus comparison possible, and one that is always used in discussions like this I've noticed...



No, that's not the same. When you leave your house IRL you are not entering a specifically designated zone while implicitly accepting the terms of that area which you know beforehand.

If you wanted to compare it to some real life event, complaining about being looted in lootable PvP would be more like entering a paintball competition and then whining about getting paint all over you.

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agree 100%