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Entropia the first MMO to accept Bitcoin?

Yes Bitcoin would work a bit like eg. PayPal as a method and option of payment, as opposed to a currency and would only be used by those of us who use and are familiar with this system.

I think most btc users tend to be techy, anarchic or nerdy types who are not short of cash and/or have a predilection for risky ventures and dare I say gambling.

As such then I think a higher percentage of this population type might be drawn into trying EU if it became the first 'game' of this type to adopt Bitcoin.
 
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Rayden said:
I think MA would be favorable to any kind of payment method has long it can be converted easily to their working currency.
Possibly (a guess) the reason MA isn't using bitcoin is because their financial partner isn't comfortable dealing with bitcoin brokers.
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There is no "financial partner" that has to deal with any "bitcoin brokers" other than the Bitcoin payment processor. In this case the financial partner would be either Bitpay or Coinbase or the Europe (Denmark) based BIPS.

The "financial partner" is the Bitcoin payment processor that deals directly with the "bitcoin brokers".
 
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Rayden said:
I'm no expert in banking... but by financial partner i mean the bank that they use.

If i remember right from the cash card days, they have a contract with a bank institution to be their "bank", every transaction must go through them, i don't think you can show up at their office and make a deposit in person.^^
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There are some decent European companies that accept Bitcoin payments via payment processors that didn't have problems in getting their bank to cooperate.

Check out Bigpoint for example. This is a gaming platform (like Steam) and game developer based in Germany with over 800 employees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigpoint_Games. Takeaway is another European company that operates in 8 EU countries and accepts Bitcoin. These companies, who are bigger than Mindark, work with European banks that obviously didn't have a problem with this form of payment.
 
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holy Lootius, ir would make totally sense if MA would accept bitcoin. why?

a virtual currency that will (100% sure) collapse in the end would only mean MA (and its minions) would not have any obligations, the buyers would take all the risk. you know, regular business so far, nothing new. :girl:


J.
 
Count Joe said:
Some reading about bitcoin

http://www.businessinsider.com/alibaba-bitcoin-2014-1
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What kinda` "reading" is this? Why link this China news, when we know that China is notorious when it comes to limiting market access. Gaming consoles like Xbox and PS3 were just allowed in China few days ago after years of being banned for example.

Why not post the link about Overstock, an American Nasdaq listed company that announced they've just started accepting Bitcoin payments the other day and sold $130k worth of goods in just one day, most sales coming from new customers who never shopped at Overstock before. http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetel...o-leave-in-the-hands-of-government-officials/
 
Why should someone want to using the piece of crap that Bitcoin is? :scratch2:
Why not using paypal and similar payment methods that are much safer? You don't take the risk of the big up and downs in value that Bitcoin has.
 
billairboy said:
Why should someone want to using the piece of crape that Bitcoin is? :scratch2:
Why not using paypal and similar payment methods that are much safer? You don't take the risk of the big up and downs in value that Bitcoin has.
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Why not bother to actually read some of valid points mentioned in this thread instead of displaying pure ignorance and adding zero value to the conversation?

When you make an argument please back it up with facts otherwise it's worthless argument.
 
Mikass said:
Why not bother to actually read some of valid points mentioned in this thread instead of displaying pure ignorance and adding zero value to the conversation?

When you make an argument please back it up with facts otherwise it's worthless argument.
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Well, please give me one or two reasons? The only one, i can think of is it maybe could be cheaper? or what?
 
billairboy said:
Well, please give me one or two reasons? The only one, i can think of is it maybe could be cheaper? or what?
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There's no "maybe" or "could". It's cheaper to use as deposit option than wire transfer, VISA/Mastercard and many other payment options.

There are no risk of chargebacks for MA unlike with Paypal, Visa/Mastercard.

Being the first MMO to accept Bitcoin would mean lots of free publicity and exposure, which would translate into new accounts.

Bitcoin community is very supportive of a companies adopting Bitcoin and many will try out Entropia. As Oracle mentioned earlier, this is a demographic that fits Entropia like a glove.

Overstock sold 130k USD worth of goods in Bitcoin payments in just one day after accepting it and most of the sales came from new customers who never shopped there before.

It will open Entropia to a $10 Billion dollar market which is estimated to reach $100 Billion in one to two years.
 
The typical bitcoin pitch I hear tends to be something like:

One day I turned my computer on and started some program aliens gave me....next thing I know I mined money out of my machine, you can too.

abcdefghijklmnop - These 16 digits represent 1,000 dollars, honest, you can even truth or dare me. I mined them with my machine, I really have no idea what calculations I am actually making or for what reason. But I am a super smart tech guru now, so it doesn't matter.

As long as you buy the these digits from me in working currency, all is good and the future is awesome. I promise.

I will even trade these digits for a few virtual goodies for half the cost, since aliens help me make them on my computer. And when you sell it for working currency at full price to the next guy it will be awesome-sauce. We will make history, and trillions of billions of dollars for everyone. As long as its working currency it shouldn't matter you'll be fine.

Sometimes in the transfer we can lose all of our money with no way to get it back, and it is in no way guaranteed by any institution, but don't worry, it was mysteriously designed that way by aliens who disappeared, which is why it will work out for us in the end.
 
@forgo

How is what you've just posted relevant to the conversation? I don't see why people mining bitcoin or aliens or anything else has any relevance to Mindark accepting Bitcoin payments via a Bitcoin payment processor.

Aliens? That's a new one. :)


p.s: That's quite a fat signature you got there! ;)
 
Mikass said:
There's no "maybe" or "could". It's cheaper to use as deposit option than wire transfer, VISA/Mastercard and many other payment options.

There are no risk of chargebacks for MA unlike with Paypal, Visa/Mastercard.
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I want to clarify that I don't mind if MA use Bitcoin, it could be smart to make benefit of the Bitcoin hype. I'm just wondering why someone want to use Bitcoin because of the risk connected to it when we have more secure solution.

One thing with the Bitcoins system. If I understand it correctly it has has a limit of 21m bitcoins and you get's 25 bitcoins when you are mining and helping to create the hash that are needed to keep the system running. So....... what happens when the system reach the limit of 21m and the system can't create more bitcoins? The mininsystem will stop working because you can't award the miners their 25 bitcoins anymore? So, no mining - no hash can be created from the miningsystem, no hash means no payment transactions possible anymore, systems stops or what?
 
billairboy said:
I want to clarify that I don't mind if MA use Bitcoin, it could be smart to make benefit of the Bitcoin hype. I'm just wondering why someone want to use Bitcoin because of the risk connected to it when we have more secure solution.

One thing with the Bitcoins system. If I understand it correctly it has has a limit of 21m bitcoins and you get's 25 bitcoins when you are mining and helping to create the hash that are needed to keep the system running. So....... what happens when the system reach the limit of 21m and the system can't create more bitcoins? The mininsystem will stop working because you can't award the miners their 25 bitcoins anymore? So, no mining - no hash can be created from the miningsystem, no hash means no payment transactions possible anymore, systems stops or what?
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I agree with you that it could be smart move for MA to accept Bitcoin.

For many people Bitcoin is like a savings account. The currency was designed to be deflationary, to actually increase in value, unlike regular inflationary currency that gets devalued by regular money printing by central banks. The fact that it will be capped at 21 million units is indicative of that.

When you make a long or short term deposit at your bank, very often that interest paid by the bank will not cover the rate of inflation so you'll actually lose money by keeping it in the bank even if bank pays interest on your deposit. This is because the money supply is being manipulated by constant money printing, which is basically a hidden tax on your money or indirect theft if you will. Bitcoin is safe from this inflation tax.

Bitcoins are increasingly harder to mine, the difficulty keeps increasing every day. The 21 million cap is estimated to be reached in year 2140. The mining will still be interesting at that point due to the transaction fees. Miners will keep mining to get those fees.
 
Here is an interview with a well known Swedish politician discussing Bitcoin, since Mindark is Swedish company and would seem there's no shortage of doubtful Swedish posters in this thread, some may find this interesting to watch:

 
Mikass said:
Bitcoins are increasingly harder to mine, the difficulty keeps increasing every day. The 21 million cap is estimated to be reached in year 2140. The mining will still be interesting at that point due to the transaction fees. Miners will keep mining to get those fees.
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But if get harder and harder to mine, will not the system get slower and slower because you need too do at least one mining "event" for each payment transaction? So if the mining get's harder and slower, will not the money transfers slow down to a point is impossible to use? Or do I misunderstand something?
 
Oracle said:
Yes Bitcoin would work a bit like eg. PayPal as a method and option of payment, as opposed to a currency and would only be used by those of us who use and are familiar with this system.

I think most btc users tend to be techy, anarchic or nerdy types who are not short of cash and/or have a predilection for risky ventures and dare I say gambling.

As such then I think a higher percentage of this population type might be drawn into trying EU if it became the first 'game' of this type to adopt Bitcoin.
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That's a very good point. The Bitcoin demographic is made out of risk takers, who are not risk averse at all and would fit Entropia like a glove. Most of them also have plenty of money to spend.

billairboy said:
But if get harder and harder to mine, will not the system get slower and slower because you need too do at least one mining "event" for each payment transaction? So if the mining get's harder and slower, will not the money transfers slow down to a point is impossible to use? Or do I misunderstand something?
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No, it won't slow down because while harder to mine, currency will keep increasing in value due to its deflationary nature, increasingly restricted supply.
 
Mikass said:
There's no "maybe" or "could". It's cheaper to use as deposit option than wire transfer, VISA/Mastercard and many other payment options.

There are no risk of chargebacks for MA unlike with Paypal, Visa/Mastercard.

Being the first MMO to accept Bitcoin would mean lots of free publicity and exposure, which would translate into new accounts.

Bitcoin community is very supportive of a companies adopting Bitcoin and many will try out Entropia. As Oracle mentioned earlier, this is a demographic that fits Entropia like a glove.

Overstock sold 130k USD worth of goods in Bitcoin payments in just one day after accepting it and most of the sales came from new customers who never shopped there before.

It will open Entropia to a $10 Billion dollar market which is estimated to reach $100 Billion in one to two years.
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i think to accept bitcoins as depositing method would be a "state-of-the-art" feature, which would simply have positive effects to mindark and the entropia universe ... as you mentioned...

of course, MA had to be very careful and accurate in choosing their business partners and had to outsource the payment risks... easiest way would be a thirdparty provider, directly integrated with 10% provision or whatever

@all sceptics
before you moan about bitcoins, and play down the bitcoin topic, please read and understand(!) the bitcoin system... it is pretty clever and interesting all in all worth the time!

just my small statement... i dont think that bitcoins will be socialy integrated anytime soon, but hey the internet wasnt it neither before 5 years and the full potential is also not recognized by (personal subjective estimation) 50 % of the country we/i/you are living in (doesnt matter which concrete one, it counts for every)... the collective mind expanding is soo slow... not every person lives on the internet (more or less, with all consequences). As we are all relatively open minded new technology users, not every else is...


anyway, to introduce bitcoins as depositmethod would be the highlight of decisions for years! i totaly agree with mikass's post...
 
Mikass said:
No, it won't slow down because while harder to mine, currency will keep increasing in value due to its deflationary nature, increasingly restricted supply.
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But how can it be harder to mine, but it will not slow down the system? Each payment transaction requires one or more mining event and if it gets harder it will take longer time to execute the mining event at it would take longer time to execute the payment.

One other thing, every user downloads a copy of every bit transaction made in the system. Will that not be a impossible huge amount of data to handle in the near future?
 
billairboy said:
But how can it be harder to mine, but it will not slow down the system? Each payment transaction requires one or more mining event and if it gets harder it will take longer time to execute the mining event at it would take longer time to execute the payment.
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There are less rewards but there's no actual slowdown. Also increasingly powerful mining gear is being deployed to counter the increase in difficulty.

One other thing, every user downloads a copy of every bit transaction made in the system. Will that not be a impossible huge amount of data to handle in the near future?
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No, not every user. No wallet actually downloads the whole blockchain (few gigabytes in size) with all the transactions ever recorded. Only the original wallet did that but there are many user friendly ones that are very fast, that only download the relevant parts. Try it out for yourself and see. Best way to understand the system is to actually use it.
 
Mikass said:
Some interesting follow-up:

overstock_130k.jpg



Note that most of these orders came from new customers. It's really amazing.
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One day later Overstock CEO gets invited on CNN to talk about it:

 
Very interesting thread this .
Has anyone tried those bitcoin mining devices ?
 
Mikass said:
No, not every user. No wallet actually downloads the whole blockchain (few gigabytes in size) with all the transactions ever recorded. Only the original wallet did that but there are many user friendly ones that are very fast, that only download the relevant parts. Try it out for yourself and see. Best way to understand the system is to actually use it.
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I actually did that today and it have update about 68 % of the history it take about 4-5gb on my system drive and took a couple of hours, then my computer crashed because my system hard drive was full.... :silly2:
What will happen if and when the amount of users is 100 times more than today?

My point is, the system has many question marks about how safe and robust the system is.
 
billairboy said:
My point is, the system has many question marks about how safe and robust the system is.
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yeah there are many technical problems. the one you raise can be addressed in the short term by using Multibit client that doesnt require a download of the whole blockchain.
 
I'm still a bit sceptic to bitcoins, but not due to how it works and how it is bulit up
in concept, but from RL security p.o.v.
When "average Joe" starts to use bitcoins, the risk increases a lot.
It's enough with a malware that succesfully spreads around +10% of the users
who have their own wallet, and don't do backups, and then instead of hacking keys
or similar, it removes the value the user have.
There are other ways to do even more damage, but I guess people can figure out
ways data can be destroyed, manipulated, changed or whatever .
Who ever that thinks something is 100% secure need to open their eyes for reality. ;)

Quite funny thou' with reasons people use for using bitcoins... no chargebacks?
Chargebacks per se isn't bad, it's actually a question of protection, but as with everything
else, missused it's a terrible system.
Same thing with current fees that excist, a fee per se isn't bad either, but same here,
when missused it's obvisoulsy a question of greed, if that fee is way above what is need
to run business.
The fee is same as any other tool people use in any other business, it's ment to bring in
money.
Do you work for free, or do charge your customer on the penny what you need, or do
you even try to get a profit? It's quite easy to blame others for being greedy, when
most people and businesses charge more than what is needed to run the business. ;)

But ok, lets not see bad things in everything. Bitcoins in concept is really interesting,
so it will be interesting to see what it will end up as in future. :)
 
billairboy said:
I actually did that today and it have update about 68 % of the history it take about 4-5gb on my system drive and took a couple of hours, then my computer crashed because my system hard drive was full.... :silly2:
What will happen if and when the amount of users is 100 times more than today?

My point is, the system has many question marks about how safe and robust the system is.
Click to expand...

aridash said:
yeah there are many technical problems. the one you raise can be addressed in the short term by using Multibit client that doesnt require a download of the whole blockchain.
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Yeah, Multibit is a good alternative and there are many others. Multitbit takes up 50mb of HDD space but others like Electrum take up only 5mb of HDD.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Clients

You can see here a couple of choices, including required HDD space to install the client.

There are also online wallets. Blockchain.info is safest and most secure. It also allows users to create paper and brain wallets.
 
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