Social Psychology in Game, A disturbing observation.

BenCoyote

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Benjamin 'Ben' Coyote
Benjamin Ben Coyote here, and I am writing this post to mainly bring up a rather disturbing topic that is really starting to manifest itself in Entropia Universe.. and this is from the observation of a person who studies social psychology...

Frankly I think this issue needs to be discussed because to be hoenst, it's starting to hurt not only MA, and the PP's but the players in general.

I'm refferriing to the fact that this game has started to show some rather disturbing trends in anti-social behaviors here, and that these behaviors are causing some players to be unhappy, and some who are becoming arrogant, and even anti-social in nature..

And this is in fact my own observations and not that of the players, Planet Partners or MA in general, but in specific, the social psycholgoy as a whole..

Now granted this game was designed as a real cash economy game, don't get me wrong, a real cash economy game is a good thing to have, but it has it's more deeper and darker sides to this too..

Frankly this game is all about the money.. No questions asked.. but a lot of players who come into this game are usually in it for "The short haul" and not "The Long one.." What I like to call "The Get Rich quick schemers".

The reality is I've sen a number of new players come in and start asking how they want to earn money and do it quick.. I mean it's okay to dream, but without putting in a lot of work into this game, you aren't going to go very far..

Case in point. I've started to see a lot of players who are not starting to put a lot of work into the game and start to beg for items.. and remember these are adults who are in fact over the age of 18 and some players who are under it..

In real life some would refer to them as "Slackers' or "lazy Bums" or even "Welfare queens". And in fat thi ssis starting to show in game.. the non-depoers who can't depo or can but usually are taken by another type fo player the ones who hurt this game.. The scammers, resellers and Pirates. the Thieves as you will call them of this game.. (and yes I know who you are.. Someof these people are in fact are bt doing the real research here and in fact are learning to act this way in public (Granted this is just a game, but what stops them from doing this in real life? One simple thing is the fact of the police or law enforcement, but then some of these people decide to challenge authority here, and that can be a dangerous trend too.

Then there's my favorite topic.. Greed.. In this game, the trick here is to make sales, and not ask too much of another player .. In short, things should be affordable to players, the auction houses should have very little on the auctions on all worlds. but instead i see a major glut of materials and product that go unsold or are returned to their owners. Including sweat..

Seems a lot of players come into this game thinking that there is only one commodity for them to produce.. and that is where they are sadly misinformed.. ther eisn't 1 product rut rather 78 or so products that can be produced with this one commodity alone.. and yet resellers and con artists are actually buying this commodity at 1 ped a k and at best 2 ped a K.. The reality is.. some of the commodities that make more money are in fact the ones that burn up sweat by the ton.. Take welding wire for example.. This is a commodity that uses sweat (even thought it's 10 bottles per click) as well as toher materials and in fact this has an effective markup of about 180% (Give or take 10%) and yet the resellers who are buying this are informing players that sweat is really 1 ped a K and are producing items that are selling for 50% less than welding wire..
They're lving in the past, not the present here..

And then there's the players who tell other players to sell to them, rather than the trade terminals, and in fact these people don't use these items but instead put them up on the market and mark them up to high prices that no one can afford.. so then they lose their acuction fee in the process.. The ore and Enmatter buyers? Cut 5% off a players income, and you've effectively taken out an additional 10 drops of bropes for them.. do this 15 to 20 times and you see no one doing it..

In short, Greed cuts both ways here like a sharp knife.. and it hurts both eays.. Without the influx of new players into this game and without the potential depositors in game, the loot pools do indeed become smaller and players complain.. a lot..

Then there's the anti-socials.. the ones who literally mock and put down the new players as well. the ones who are sexist, bigoted and ven just down right rude to players.. and they themselves are akin to someone who wants to comitt financial seppaku They are the ones who turn players away from the game rather than allowing others to enjoy the fun..

And speaking of fun.. where the hell is the fun? It's definitely not here in the game anymore.. No one laughs, no one smiles, No one throws parties, In fact all I hear from players now are how bad their loot is, how bad their mining runs are, and how poorly the crafts are coming up.. but laughter? Smiles/ There's hardly anything of that nature now..

And let's get back to the money aspect again, and this time we're gonna talk about hunting, and how many are being played into a sucker bet.. and it's this allure of get rich quickness that is really hurting htem..

Quick show of hands, How many say sweating is boring? It's not.. It's essential to gettin gthose skills you need to reduce the decay.. and what about sweating in armor? Granted 3-4 years ago, this would have been a folly, but if you want to get your armored Tiered, maybe the best way is to sweat in armor (Once you get your evade up to a high enugh level (Say Level 3-4). Because of this players are not tierin gup armors, and this is really hurting them if they want to put enhancers into it..

Hunters, let's ge to that sucker bet of yours..Do you really know how much it costs tto kill that big mob you want that global you so deseperately want? It might surprise you.. even when you're huntig in a team..
For example I was watching the Oratan event on Arkadia yesterday and I was cross comparing information I knew with that of the returns and I hate to say this but you got owned.. big time cause of the poor Loot table design.. an Oratan Lancer Titan takes on average 15 ped per person in a 12 man (or woman) team to kill. it.. so yes it's about as costly as a scoria, or a longtooth, and let me ask you this.. what kind of returns did you get? Good ones or bad ones?

Let's move on to the next part, the players in general.. I'm seeing less and less of the old time players why? Cause many of them are becoming extingt, there's no guidance here for new players to learn from no experience to take the time to sit down and teach.. Mentoring in my opinion has in some ways become a joke.. out of the 6000+ mentors in game , only 16% acutally teach.. but the rest? They farm... and what is more disturbing is that many new players don't know that there is an escape clause in teh contract between mentor and disciple... it's called " Go to the Mentoring page" and kicking them.. sure youlose the skills, but you might find someone better to teach the game. After all question your mentor, and I mean really ask questions..

As for the mentors, treat your disciples like employees in a company, pay them fair wages, and in all learn to answer questions.. correctly.. Do the research.. cause many of you are turning out poor students who leave and then you lose a little more ground for each failure..

To the people who own vehicles I say this.. It's okay to own 1 or 2 vehicles of each type but whe you own 20-30? That's like an exhibitionist showing off the private parts of his body.. You've become an arrogant pervert with thinking like that.. You're just showing off how many toys you have and you can't fly all 15 sleipnirs at the same time, or the 30 to 40 cars or aicraft ou own. can you? Do you know whati do with the 4 pit bulls I own? I use them for storage.. and brother I got a lot of materials I am willing to trade with others.. that's why I have them, not to show off.. In short I use my vehicles for practicality not arrogance..

Also, stop being so damn serious.. You say "It's just a game, but you guys are really taking this game too seriously. Don't see more humor in this game. It's almost like I' m living in a monestary or a nunery, or a cult compound, rather than a fun vibrant universe..

Now as for the PP's I say this.. Listen to your palyers, and remember they're your customers.. oh wait for some it's already too late.. but for at least 1 or 2 there is still time and hope Be a bit more proactive, get on the hron to MA if they don't want to deliver the goods.. and above all be assertive and not just a bunch of acceptive people, a bunch of yes men as you call it. if you think something is amiss question the main company..

Oh and to MA I have something to say too.. Treat your customers with respect, answer their questions.. Don't be stingy on the answers either.. you give customer service that is bad? You lose 11 more players each time.. You give good customer service and you will have repeat customer.. Also focus on fixing the game, not just addin in bells and whistles.. Sure a social network is okay but fix things first, fix glitchs and make things more enjoyable, and less costly.. Show that you care.. (but then I guess here i'm preaching to the choir cause the choiir has their own tune to sing.. it's called "Money Money Money..") But then if you fix the problems and not ignore the players then you're going to have more playes come into game, not less ( Unless your ulterior motice is to sell off the game to someone who might take the ideas and make them better than you ever could.. Stop being so darn finicky and start listening openly.. after all In this world No bucks mean no Buck rogers..

In short, if you want to start blaming people you can only blame the game developers so far, you can only blame the planet partners so far.. and stop living in denial too, you're also to blame.. even I'm guilty of this and yet I come back not to force players out, but to teach them not to make the mistakes I've learned from so many others..I think a lot of it deals with Bad choice of game engine, bad design, bad choices by planet partners, and yes even worse choices by some players.. After all a few bad apples are souring the entire barrel of potential fun.

You want the old players back? Then start showing people the real side to this game.. the fun and the enjoyment of it.. anyone who is not, should be really waking up now and smelling the coffee (or the catfood). You want to change things, speak up and don't be afreaid to do it.. sure the support cases are overloaded but point MA and the PP's to sthis post and then show them the flaws of this game.. and be ashamed if you don't do something.. cause it's your game here, as well as the planet partners and MA's..

I'm not quitting this game, not in the least until either it goes bankrupt or the players all leave.. I'm also saying that new players shouldn't be forced out, that old players should learn to adapt and teach new players and above socializing is more fun than hunting alone. (Some players who are older have become more wise and are relearning and adapting but many others/ They're leaving and in droves..

You want a positive look at this game? Look no further than the Marriages and the friendships you make (and the enemies who hate your guts). After all The reality of this game is that the distance between real life and Virtual is quickly narrowing.. soon the "Just a game" folks will be suddenly asking.."Why are so many people being so anti-social? Maybe it's because in today s world of technology we've become so anti-social.. some of us are being turned into nutcases by the lack of social interaction.. maybe it's time to reverse the trend.. and start cchanging things..

After all sure we can't control the people who run this game, maybe we can't change our ways, or maybe we can.. that's a question that is really going to be answered or not here.. not by just the people who troll the forum, but the real logical thought out players who do care about what they do, and how they act, and also can enjoy the fun..

After all it's not aobut the money, it should be about the fun.

Fun.. the one thing this game is seriously lacking..

Sure you can get away with murder, conning people and what not in this game, but what's stopping you from doing this in the real world? Want to steal? Go mug someone or rob a bank. Want to Kill someone in a PVP? Go get a real gun and kill a real person.. in cold blood.. see where these actions of "Just a game" get you. They usually leave you ending up Deade or in jail in real life..

In closing I say this.. This is from the observational standpoint of a person who has been studying this game long and hard.. for 5 years. heck If I had someone to puclish this into a psychological journal, they're probably be appalled at what they see. some pyschologitsts would tell you to go seek help.. some woud go out and social lize. and for osme you would be told to get help from either AA, GA, or a trained psych.Maybe as a whole we should stop living in the denial here, and start treating this game more than a game.. Treat it as a game that imitates real life.. the only difference in this game is this.. In this game, you die, you come back.. In real life, when you're gone, it's game over..

But please, do the research, question,a adn even challenge people and even the PP's and MA, after all you want it better? Stop talking about the ATH's and the HOF's and focus on the fun and friendships you make (or don't/.) It's really in the end, your choce..

with that' I'm done.. Go ahead an Neg Rep me if you want Or pos rep me if I am speaking the truth here. Frankly I don't take offense to anyone who does. This is just one players observations over 5 years and who has seen a lot of players come and go, and it's time to clear the air on the social aspect and stigmaof the game..

So then.. want to ignore it? Don't reply.. or challenge me and defend your positions.. Cause now the cat is out of the bag.. so deal with it..

oh and to those who do reply, feel free to add to this.. maybe it'll give a little more insight into what this game The real way people thing, and how the game and your enjoyment of it is.. also if you thik that someone like a PP or an MA official should see this, maybe it's time to point them to this and have them asking the questions.. of what they did right or wrong, and why the game is like it is..

It's time to stop this madness and time to start asking questions.. Not about money or material things, or stuff in general, but rather ask a simple question..

"Where's the real fun in this game and what does it mean to you?"

Benjamin Ben Coyote.
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper" (and yes folks I'm really legally blind Poor vision no holds barred..)
 
I like the premise of this piece, but it took a while to get to the parts of the essay that were less about player usury of newbies and more about the consequences of negativity in an online environment.

You explored the first part well enough, but seemed to gloss over the 2nd part even though it is the most important aspect of this discussion.

- MR
 
ive run the gamut of emotions in this game. now, ive learned to have more fun. lots of people I know have a good amount of fun ingame. its like comment cards in a business, the only time they get filled out is when someone wants to complain.
 
From a social psycologial vievpoint, whats your opinion on the attention spawn of an average forum reader, reading "this"post ?

On Topic

Socialism is good, its just the bad people that ruin it...
 
One thing about being a people watcher... you have to be able to look in the mirror.

Another thing to consider about this game: Consideration of Others.

  • If you know someone is busy with something important, give them time to finish what they are doing.
  • If you have something to sell, spam in trade chat - don't just start hitting people up.
  • The list goes on...

Also, this is not a role playing game. It is true we are here for the money.

I also like the social aspects of this game. I have made some very good friends here. There will always be the rotten apples. Look past it. This game is what you make of it.

Complaints are easily overlooked because no one wants to hear them. Being positive and considerate is a much better way to go.
 
It is for sure a long post, but you did point out some interesting points. Although, I have to say that after the first part you do seem to 'ramble' about the state of things considering MA and their way of doing things.

Looking at the players, I can say I sure have met some anti-social players. On the other side, I have met some wonderful people as well.

I have to point out you do have some negativity in your post, which at a certain degree I can understand. However, there are still people out there who can just treat it as a game, are not going after the big bucks and big dreams. Yes, in the end, this is just a big game (casino-esque mmorpg).

Greed is a big part of the game, every one would like to break even or make a profit, but in my case it's just mostly to keep playing the game, for some others this game they see as a way to make an income. Let them. And most of the bad things that people come across is right here on the forums.

Currently I still hunt with my first and only disciple I have ever head, I have a great time doing my radio show every week, make a youtube video here and there and do my best to enjoy myself. (mostly hunting)

If there are more people 'complaining' about the state of the social state the game seems to be in according to your words, it might be best to try and alienate yourself with such people.

also if you think that someone like a PP or an MA official should see this, maybe it's time to point them to this and have them asking the questions.. of what they did right or wrong, and why the game is like it is..

Yes, it might be a good idea of MA to check this out, but a lot of the changes have been pushed by a small group of the community. (less volatile hofs/globals, steady loot, more events, more for mid level players, etc.)
They might not even see things as being wrong, because lets face it, as long they still seem to give out ~170k hofs, they got some flow to let it happen.

The people that want to have things changed need to start being vocal about it. But remember that with every good intentionally change offered, something might also change for the worst.
 
TLDR: bottom line be nice to noobs?

I kindof got stuck on this point too.

Partially its due to formatting. The sections need to be broken up so that theyre easier to read and folks who consider certain talking points dreck can move on to the next talking point.

The other part is, well, the arguments that deal with something other than marking up the price of sweat, sweaters union type stuff, etc are underdeveloped. It's like the OP had something useful to say, but the only way he could think of to relate to people was through the points related to newbies.

My only piece of advice there would be to think outside the box. Read a few books (or at least) articles that you can cite on crowd psychology and the psychology of anonymity, and cite them. Then tell a story about EU to relate that citation back to the common topic.

I think its a good start. It's just something that is more like a 20 page essay, not a short forum post.

Truth be told I've been working on something similar for quite a while, gathering source material through various methodology, both observational and through direct interaction. The piece has been on my mind about 2 years now, though. I want to write something with quality that is both interesting and fun to read. Otherwise its just troll bait.
 
One thing about being a people watcher... you have to be able to look in the mirror.

Another thing to consider about this game: Consideration of Others.

  • If you know someone is busy with something important, give them time to finish what they are doing.
  • If you have something to sell, spam in trade chat - don't just start hitting people up.
  • The list goes on...

Also, this is not a role playing game. It is true we are here for the money.

I also like the social aspects of this game. I have made some very good friends here. There will always be the rotten apples. Look past it. This game is what you make of it.

Complaints are easily overlooked because no one wants to hear them. Being positive and considerate is a much better way to go.

And not only to be able to look in the mirror... also understand the concept in
"In my opinion vs Something *really* is".
This is a major mistake people tend to do, see themself as the universal normal. :)
 
I agree with some points, but disagree with others.

I agree that it would be nice if some people weren't such dicks when interacting with others.

However, If someone wants to spend money/peds to buy 30+ vehicles - whether its because they enjoy having that many or because they just want to show off - I say by all means, go for it. If it makes you happy, spend. If someone wants to buy thousands of peds worth of clothes/rare items/vanity crap - again, for whatever reason, be it greed, boredom, feeling of prestige/superiority/leetness, etc, etc, then who is anyone to tell others how to spend their time and money?

As for new players learning the game, it's their responsibility to learn the game and protect themselves. Bottom line. Its great that there are so many willing to help and give good advise/accurate infos and it sucks that there are prolly even more that are looking to take advantage of others in whatever way. But just like in real life, it ain't all rainbows and unicorns.

If you're going to plonk down any amount of money on anything, a little research on how things work and what to expect goes a long way. Be responsible for yourself.

Edit: Also forgot to add, people are free to set whatever price they want for their items and people are free to buy or not buy at whatever price. And people are free to negotiate price with each other. That's the beauty of a free market.
 
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Or you just talk way too much and people don't have the time or the capacity to converse with you...I started reading the first few paragraphs, scrolled to see how long the post was and stopped reading.

Me too. :D

Add some pictures between some paragraphs to keep us interested in the plot.:wise:
 
are you really complaining about things that happen in Crone's universe, but are just a small reflection off the world around Crone? seriously, that's kind of worrying.

This game has been about gambling from the start for almost everyone. And Crone believes that gambling always came with problems, everywhere. Thing is, stay away from it.
 
Hard to have fun when MA removes every part of "fun"

I want to lie down. MA removed it.
I want to mix up dance emotes. MA can't fix it. (Old dance parties at CND)
I want to giggle with the giberish talk. MA removed it.
I want to run after a "strange signal" with team mining. MA removed it.
I want to express with new clothes - MA can't fix the bugs
I want to PVP with viehcles - MA can't fix the bugs.
I want massive PVP in space - MA servers can't handle the stress (Look at LG)

So much more that was fun but later removed and never introduced to the game again. :)
 
We must be playing a different game; a more cynical mind would say I must be playing a game while you sweat.
Thing is, I can see where you get this feeling; but what you basically have done is watching a bunch of newbies; from which 95% are not going to stay in this game and draw conclusions about this to the complete playerbase.

After spending some time in Icarus and hearing conversations in Bigs LA where newbies sweat ambu; I realised that over 90% of the new players are not worth it. They seem to resemble players of other MMO's.

I can counter any critique you give about our playerbase with examples. Most players I've encountered that have been around long enough to unlock serendipity or CGA in case of miners have an additude that differs night and day from what that of a newbie.

I actually must say that I encounter much more "dicks" IRL then I do in game. And actually, 98% of players that do things that make me frown are at icarus/sweat places and are gone not before long.

So I ask you, to reconsider either the scope of your topic to newbie area's or spend some time with the actual playerbase.
In this universe, reputation means everything and Karma hits you back. We had a couple persistent *ssholes over time, but word spreads fast and they left.

And where do you get the idea we are talking about HoF's and ATH all the time. Yes we like them, joke about them; but in the end we're here to make fun; and making money selldom means HoF'ing much.

I must say I don't know any other community which has such a mature and helpfull audience as Entropia.


And finally for any newbie reading this; get away from the newbie zones; you'll have more fun, see nicer players and learn alot more. Explore the land, say hi to other green dots on your radar, ask questions and know that many players want to help you out with information, bring you to a save zone if you are stuck, guide you around.

Don't take a mentor in a newbie zone; talk to people and if you like someone's advice or guidiance along the way, ask him if he wants to be your mentor. Get into a soc that does not have too much noobs.
Don't waste your time sweating all the time. Depo 10 bucks and get a gun; go sweat/hunt some mobs; stroll around, find all tp's; all missions, npc's and such.

Most of whoem that are still around started exloring from day 1; I already gathered most tp's on eudoria before I started sweating and soon sweat hunted on a desolate location, where no newbies came.
those with such a mentality will stay; others that need to be told what to do, that are easily bored or think entropia is a game in the strict sense of the word will leave sooner or later.
 
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I like the premise of this piece, but it took a while to get to the parts of the essay that were less about player usury of newbies and more about the consequences of negativity in an online environment.

You explored the first part well enough, but seemed to gloss over the 2nd part even though it is the most important aspect of this discussion.

- MR

Agreed and without too many words, one lacking aspect is consequence...I wont rant on!
KISS
 
This is from the observational standpoint of a person who has been studying this game long and hard.. for 5 years. heck If I had someone to puclish this into a psychological journal, they're probably be appalled at what they see. some pyschologitsts would tell you to go seek help.. some woud go out and social lize. and for osme you would be told to get help from either AA, GA, or a trained psych.Maybe as a whole we should stop living in the denial here, and start treating this game more than a game.. Treat it as a game that imitates real life.. the only difference in this game is this.. In this game, you die, you come back.. In real life, when you're gone, it's game over..

MMORPG

massively multiplayer online role playing game.

Just because you kill a player in entropia doesn't mean you will want to go out and murder someone IRL
 
MMORPG

massively multiplayer online role playing game.

Just because you kill a player in entropia doesn't mean you will want to go out and murder someone IRL

PS to much to read. I read this paragraph and the opening few
 
Hard to have fun when MA removes every part of "fun"

I want to lie down. MA removed it.
I want to mix up dance emotes. MA can't fix it. (Old dance parties at CND)
I want to giggle with the giberish talk. MA removed it.
I want to run after a "strange signal" with team mining. MA removed it.
I want to express with new clothes - MA can't fix the bugs
I want to PVP with viehcles - MA can't fix the bugs.
I want massive PVP in space - MA servers can't handle the stress (Look at LG)

So much more that was fun but later removed and never introduced to the game again. :)

Don't forget adding "I want to be able to take my pet out for a walk!" :yup:

Walking around with the deed in your inventory doesn't count! :mad:
 
Also, this is not a role playing game. It is true we are here for the money.

The second sentence does not even begin to imply the first. Chess will not cease to be a board game when a wager is placed. It's a board game AND the players are participating for the money. Neither does an MMO cease to be an MMO when the RCE element is attached to it.

Just as capturing an opposing piece in a chess match doesn't become morally equivalent to human kidnapping when real money is involved, neither do real-world moral values and duties map directly to in-world MMO situations as a result of the cash at stake. This is not to say that no objective moral values or duties apply in Entropia, they certainly do, but it is not reasonable to draw linear comparisons to real life morals on the bases of the RCE element alone.
 
I read the first paragraph. Sorry. I live in the land of text messaging. I agree with Talania, pictures might help.
 
The players responding thos this post are the ones giving the answers to the probles that exist.

Now if I could interject here after reading and re-reading a number of posts I would like to point out something to those fo you who commented that they didn't have time to read the entire article. You answered your own question about lack of patience..

This right there, proves the lack of patience in the game. Your own actions by not really digesting the entire thuoght process shows to others that you have no patience in the game. You're in it for the fast sell, the short term and not in it for the long haul.. And yes there are people who have been in this game a short while and who have decided to not stay around, because they lack the patience. Even when the people who have lack of patience don't or won't stick around to see a final resolution to any problem handed them.. They fail to learn to adapt to any new idea or concept handed them (perhaps the best example is space itself) and often quit out of the fact that they aren't creative enough to think logically the way to best optimize their returns in this game. They insted figure ways out how to screw other players over and leave them frustrated as well. not realizing that they're slitting their own throats by reducing their own returns.

Now for the ones who say "Be Kind to Noobs you have it partially right, it's not e kind to noobs, but rather be kind ot each other.. A lotof players have forgotten the golden rules of life, you're absolutely right, if you are the ones who keep a noob in game that new player might turn into a potential depositor, and thus your loot will and does improve, even though you say it doesn't.. You force a player not to play, and thus you are literally doing the same as the ones who have no patience as well. You'll end up behing the ones who cause your own downfall here.


Let's also face this fact: VIrtual Life, Or what I call VL, is in a way, starting to imitate or mimick real life or RL , with some subtle differences, shady dealings are the norm and not the exception here, piracy is akin to beng a school bully and beating up a studen for their lunch money (Though in some cases, it can be a paycheck if you want). and if not then the gap between the two are quickly narrowing to dangerous levels where the term "It's just a game" loses all meaning. In this case Reality and virtuality are in fact merging to become the same thing. All it would take is one or two events that could in theory invoke a hostile act against another player or players. I know of one player who just recently had to defuse a rather tense situation, and i'm starting to wonder how many more of these conflict will occur.. Then turn around and look at what we got in the real world at this very moment. you got anything form acts of Terrorism (In this "Game" it's "Pirates") to societal struggles (such as the Russians vs the Ukrainians are being emulated by the class battles of the land grabs that occur every week (and in some ways are much akin to local disputes and even all out war..

Let's take a look at another topic that exists in this game, and I'm referring to the "Battle fo the Genders". (or men vs women). In this case, the majority of avatars or rather the players behind the avatars are in fact male or oriented or sdominated,while the minority are indeed female. Yet when we look at the items that are "Gender based" (Clothes and armor most notably), the females get a better break then the males to. Which brngs up the point of "Gender bending" and most of the time this explains why some male players go in as female avatars (In fact, show me 1 female player who is posing as a male avatar, and I can show you at least 25 if not more male players posing as the exact opposite gender..)

And yet this game does not appeal to the women players that much. In this game however there is hope as there are some couples that exist in this universe, and I don't see why more couples don't get involved in this form of entertainment (remember John Neverdie singing about his "Gamer Chick?).. Maybe it's because of the "WoW factor" or other games that are out there. Maybe it's because they don't see the potential for having a lasintg relationship in this game. or maybe it's because some husbands or boyfriends are afraid or are jealous cause their significant other might be flirting or cheatingin a game (and vice versa).

(and yes I've read countless examples of this that exist outside this game. so the thing is this?. Is this "Jst a game Anymore" It's not.. It's art Imitating life.)

It's also interesting to note that some of us are in fact disabled (Myself and at least three other players that i know of ), So yeah even the handicapped or disabled are not always handicapped. They're handicapable.

The point is this. New players, female players, and even people with diabilites, are in fact treated with so much disrespect in this game, that a lot of times it's the players who commit these acts that set themselves up for the complaints of bad loot here. Yet they, the ones who treat others like this), in turn deny this issue and instead 90% of the time blame eveyrone else, but themselves. They wil blame anyone else, but themselves. This is the denial of this game. And it's a major denial no one wants to accept . Game developer indeed have bad designs in any game, and while some blame their misery cause of the game design, but with the the players help they could so correct this with the proper input. But even game companies can and do somethimes make bad deicison This is why feedback and support cases are necessary.

Does this game need players, Absolutely.. and yet while the same players who blame the companies and who don't put the input in, and blame everyone else Such as the planet partners, are the exact same ones who live in denial of the fact that without players their own loots will indeed go south.. (Thus my comment about "No bucks equal No Buck Rogers." and "Don't complain about the loot.. You're doing it to yourselves."

For without players this is just a form of entertainment much akin to a paramutual horse race and populatity contest, then a real social and economic game. And speaking of economics, Many players don't even know how economics or economies work both in the real world and in game, and it shows. Not only in the auction houses, but also on the meeting places we gather at. and thus it's their lack of research into economics and the ability to balance their own profits and loss, that determines their succcess or failure. If you can't work on a budget, or if you can't balance your check book in real life then maybe you should go back to school and take some courses in economics here. In this case the current market is in fact both sufering from Hyper Inflation of tools necessary to play, and Hyper devaluation of items looted (Hence the remark of "Don't sell to mthe TT, sell to the TT, at which point the player just tacks it onto the auction for their own profit gain.. Wash, rinse, repeat.. over and over again.. (And now you wonder why this game is called Entropia Universe? Entropy is part of the game Look it up in a dictionary sometime.. Eventually you'll see where this game is really headed).

In closing I think that the lack of patience, the bias sexism and discrimation of players versus players, and even the lack of the reasoning of economics here are part of the cause. Couple to that to that the denial by players and this game indeed becomes that cliquism and para-mutual horse race everyone talks about. The so called "Casino Syndrome")

(oh and for those who think this is a casino? It's not the true sense of a casino and yet it is. . In fact a player poiinted this out.. that Entropia Universe is in fact a Para-mutual where you are the horse, andyou're betting on yourself to win, Thus you're your own horse. The proper choice of Armors, weapon and what and when to hunt combined with your own skills that you earn, determines whether you succeed or fail. It's not about luck, it's about the fact that many players do not play smarter they play harder, and yet a few players can and do play smarter, and not harder.. But the majority of players do fall into the former category and not the latter. No street smarts, no sense of value, no ability to work it out in game. Imagine putting those proactices in th real world.. YOu want that good paying job? Work for it..

So now when you factor in these things, stop and think long and hard about what can happen.. Can things change or improve? or will it remain the status quo? Only the autonomy, the chocies we make, certain decisions determines the full outcome whether this game succeeds or fails as well.

That about sums it up.. Now have i glossed over anything here? Cause if I have, then perhaps the discussion should continue, else the facts are on the table. laid out in front of yo, and that no one can truly deny.

After all you answered your own questions with your own deed and actions.

Benjamin Ben Coyote
a.k.a "The Blind sniper"
 
I don't see why more couples don't get involved in this form of entertainment (remember John Neverdie singing about his "Gamer Chick?).. Maybe it's because of the "WoW factor" or other games that are out there. Maybe it's because they don't see the potential for having a lasintg relationship in this game. or maybe it's because some husbands or boyfriends are afraid or are jealous cause their significant other might be flirting or cheatingin a game (and vice versa).

In my case, she is at work :) this game aint cheap!
 
Ben,

I think your second response is substantive and raises valid points. Each thing you are discussing does in fact exist in some form in this game.

However I think you have neglected to discuss, in terms of social psychology, the impact of relative anonymity on the social process in MMO's, using Entropia Universe as a specific example.

While the other points you mention are ever present, the defining factor in the psychological process in MMORPG's is not gender, or a persons status as a novice. The defining factor is that each person in here is anonymous.

I'll give you three examples:

1) An individual suffers from social anxiety. This person finds the everyday social process to be a painful one; fearing how they are perceived by others they keep their social outings to a minimum. They however log on an MMORPG and find themselves eagerly discussing all manner of things through their proxy avatar.

In this situation the anonymity of the internet has allowed a person to bypass a personal issue, empowering them to engage others on a positive level.

2) An individual is abusive, suspicious by nature, and mean spirited. This person finds the everyday social process to be a limiting one, as they may have gotten punched in the face one too many times. Or perhaps not. Perhaps they are a coward and have never allowed their interior monologue to branch out into the real world. They however log on an MMORPG and find themselves quickly mocking others, pointing out each and every flaw they can in a near constant attempt to belittle and shame others. They do this through their proxy avatar, or perhaps even a dozen or more proxy avatars.

In this situation the anonymity of the internat has allowed a person to actively embrace a personal issue, empowering them to engage others on a negative level.

3) An individual is prone to negative thinking. They may be a normally decent individual, but their glass is always half empty. This person finds the everyday social process to be a limiting one, because they are often left out of social circles due to their near constant whining about how things are not perfect. They however log on an MMORPG and find themselves engaging with others of a like mind who feel that because they are in a product, rather than simply engaging in day to day existence, they can demand the perfection they do not see in the real world.

In this situation the anonymity of the internet has allowed a person to actively engage in a life conflict. They are now allowed to pursue and possibly even claim perfection. Empowered, they find their confidence, ultimately however the confidence is hollow as the individual can quickly retreat from rejection, using the avatar or online identity as a sort of shield.

This is not an exhaustive list, but is intended to show how the anonymous nature of the internet allows people to embrace their own psychological natures, be they either positive, negative, or some mix between the two.

An abusive individual will veer more towards sexism, usury, and mischief in an online environment. A negative individual might complain excessively. An obsessive person may become overly concerned with a topic, unable to see the bigger picture. All of these contribute to a negative environment. And all of these people may be more extreme in their normal behaviors because there is no actual social consequence for doing so.
 
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Now if I could interject here after reading and re-reading a number of posts I would like to point out something to those fo you who commented that they didn't have time to read the entire article. You answered your own question about lack of patience..

I did read your whole post. But I can imagine many people not wanting to read long posts that aren't formatted well. Try a new paragraph for every Idea, and a line break for each thought. It works wonders.


This right there, proves the lack of patience in the game. Your own actions by not really digesting the entire thuoght process shows to others that you have no patience in the game. You're in it for the fast sell, the short term and not in it for the long haul.. And yes there are people who have been in this game a short while and who have decided to not stay around, because they lack the patience. Even when the people who have lack of patience don't or won't stick around to see a final resolution to any problem handed them.. They fail to learn to adapt to any new idea or concept handed them (perhaps the best example is space itself) and often quit out of the fact that they aren't creative enough to think logically the way to best optimize their returns in this game. They insted figure ways out how to screw other players over and leave them frustrated as well. not realizing that they're slitting their own throats by reducing their own returns.

I don't have anyone on my friendlist that isn't 5 years+. When we make goals, it is to do x/y by the end of the year (unlock something). We have often discussions that takes years of practice. May I ask you who you have spoken too? I seem to play another game, or are active in another community than you.

Also, Half of my friendlist consists out of players doing something other than the 3 standard professions; be it healer, trader, make-up; writting articles, PK'ing or whatever they find nice to do. Again, the question, are you sure your FL/people you gang out with are not the problem, which, if you read next point; would be errorous to your part of finding a bunch of the many interesting people ar

Now for the ones who say "Be Kind to Noobs you have it partially right, it's not e kind to noobs, but rather be kind ot each other.. A lotof players have forgotten the golden rules of life, you're absolutely right, if you are the ones who keep a noob in game that new player might turn into a potential depositor, and thus your loot will and does improve, even though you say it doesn't.. You force a player not to play, and thus you are literally doing the same as the ones who have no patience as well. You'll end up behing the ones who cause your own downfall here.


Let's also face this fact: VIrtual Life, Or what I call VL, is in a way, starting to imitate or mimick real life or RL , with some subtle differences, shady dealings are the norm and not the exception here, piracy is akin to beng a school bully and beating up a studen for their lunch money (Though in some cases, it can be a paycheck if you want). and if not then the gap between the two are quickly narrowing to dangerous levels where the term "It's just a game" loses all meaning. In this case Reality and virtuality are in fact merging to become the same thing. All it would take is one or two events that could in theory invoke a hostile act against another player or players. I know of one player who just recently had to defuse a rather tense situation, and i'm starting to wonder how many more of these conflict will occur.. Then turn around and look at what we got in the real world at this very moment. you got anything form acts of Terrorism (In this "Game" it's "Pirates") to societal struggles (such as the Russians vs the Ukrainians are being emulated by the class battles of the land grabs that occur every week (and in some ways are much akin to local disputes and even all out war..

First, the landgrab are more to be compared to a sport game than a revolution or war. These socs don't hate each other but compete for a prize. this prize is the reason why they do landgrabs. Please stop looking at this so negative and try to be a fire starter yourself. Most of the competing players have the other party members on their FL and hunt/trade/chat with them.

Secondly, the pirate part. It is MA that is responsible for this situation. They as GM and creator of the world bare the responsibility. Now, in this case the system is making such thing possible. So if coldfingers or McJack are out there to pirate; we can't stop them since MA made this a legal activity.

Conflict is something that will always occur. I wish to refer to Maurice Merleau Ponty and his theory about "la conflictualité d'ëtre humain" translated: "de conflict arising of being human (in a social world)".
I would like to hold a discussion about this; but I must say that I don't like psychologist way of thinking general; and my philosophical schooled mind will clash with many of the trends in psychology; not to say that psychology only consists out of trends that get abolished in quarter century time spans; but let us not wander outside the topic of this thread.

What I meant to say is that there always will be conflict, some small ones, some bigger ones and this happens in any place, real or virtual, where humans gather and communicate.

On the other hand, how many of you have prevented someone from commiting suicide IRL by talking in game? How many of you have helped a fellow player IRL by just listening? by talking?
I did both on more than a couple occasions. Just like IRL. There is more then what meets the public eye. Ofcourse if two players are mad at each other they will talk loud; but helping someone, just listening, giving a little advice or comforting someone that is in a dear situation is something that is not cried aloud. But it happens in this universe more then you think.



Let's take a look at another topic that exists in this game, and I'm referring to the "Battle fo the Genders". (or men vs women). In this case, the majority of avatars or rather the players behind the avatars are in fact male or oriented or sdominated,while the minority are indeed female. Yet when we look at the items that are "Gender based" (Clothes and armor most notably), the females get a better break then the males to. Which brngs up the point of "Gender bending" and most of the time this explains why some male players go in as female avatars (In fact, show me 1 female player who is posing as a male avatar, and I can show you at least 25 if not more male players posing as the exact opposite gender..)

Is it not a sexist point of view to have the need to tell people apart in genders? To me it doesn't matter what the avatar looks like or what gender. Maybe it is part of my highly abstract oriented mind; but I see people as a collection of thoughts and values (also IRL), then as a body.
There are a few females playing males, I know atleast of one; but it is upto her to tell, not me.


And yet this game does not appeal to the women players that much. In this game however there is hope as there are some couples that exist in this universe, and I don't see why more couples don't get involved in this form of entertainment (remember John Neverdie singing about his "Gamer Chick?).. Maybe it's because of the "WoW factor" or other games that are out there. Maybe it's because they don't see the potential for having a lasintg relationship in this game. or maybe it's because some husbands or boyfriends are afraid or are jealous cause their significant other might be flirting or cheatingin a game (and vice versa).

Would you do a comperative study about couples playing EU versus couples playing any other MMO; and maybe take different styled MMO's to get a nice reference. What you say here, without data on other MMO's is saying nothing. Figures show that still, woman are less prone to play games than men.
So, what part of this is unique to entropia, and what part is an universal fact?
Also, do you know how many Fluskes and boss; mr and Ms Peel, lykke & priest, ... run around in this universe?
I would tend to say otherwise; that many couples play together. In fact, you would be suprissed at how high the number is, certainly if you would compare it to other MMO's.


(and yes I've read countless examples of this that exist outside this game. so the thing is this?. Is this "Jst a game Anymore" It's not.. It's art Imitating life.)

MA used to state that Project Entropia was a virtual universe. And that is what it is. It is like a second life, either is terms of escapism, fun time, doing things you can't do IRL like being an entrepeneur, social fun,...



It's also interesting to note that some of us are in fact disabled (Myself and at least three other players that i know of ), So yeah even the handicapped or disabled are not always handicapped. They're handicapable.

The point is this. New players, female players, and even people with diabilites, are in fact treated with so much disrespect in this game, that a lot of times it's the players who commit these acts that set themselves up for the complaints of bad loot here. Yet they, the ones who treat others like this), in turn deny this issue and instead 90% of the time blame eveyrone else, but themselves. They wil blame anyone else, but themselves. This is the denial of this game. And it's a major denial no one wants to accept . Game developer indeed have bad designs in any game, and while some blame their misery cause of the game design, but with the the players help they could so correct this with the proper input. But even game companies can and do somethimes make bad deicison This is why feedback and support cases are necessary.

You studied psychology; you should know that blaming others is a psychological principle that is used to protect the persons ego; many people do this in lesser or more extend. In fact only a minority of people have a strong enough ego to take full blame for anything.

But while they say otherwise, most know that they did something wrong if they lost. between what is known to the person and what is communicated; their lays a difference as large as day and night.


Does this game need players, Absolutely.. and yet while the same players who blame the companies and who don't put the input in, and blame everyone else Such as the planet partners, are the exact same ones who live in denial of the fact that without players their own loots will indeed go south.. (Thus my comment about "No bucks equal No Buck Rogers." and "Don't complain about the loot.. You're doing it to yourselves."

What does blaming the devs have to do with not realising the fact that this game needs more players. Even the biggest whinners on forum realise that we need more players. What are you refering to here?

Also, if people whine, it is because they care. It are the people you never here of again, that always stay red in your FL that spoke their final words.


For without players this is just a form of entertainment much akin to a paramutual horse race and populatity contest, then a real social and economic game. And speaking of economics, Many players don't even know how economics or economies work both in the real world and in game, and it shows. Not only in the auction houses, but also on the meeting places we gather at. and thus it's their lack of research into economics and the ability to balance their own profits and loss, that determines their succcess or failure. If you can't work on a budget, or if you can't balance your check book in real life then maybe you should go back to school and take some courses in economics here. In this case the current market is in fact both sufering from Hyper Inflation of tools necessary to play, and Hyper devaluation of items looted (Hence the remark of "Don't sell to mthe TT, sell to the TT, at which point the player just tacks it onto the auction for their own profit gain.. Wash, rinse, repeat.. over and over again.. (And now you wonder why this game is called Entropia Universe? Entropy is part of the game Look it up in a dictionary sometime.. Eventually you'll see where this game is really headed).

About financial education; about handling money, you are right. But also realise that we are all real people, and that the people you say don't understand economics in game; should rather go to school to do better IRL first. Because isn't this lacking in most schooling systems? While money is a very big part of life.
And it is an important part of entropia too.µ

Entropy means the maximum spreading of chaos; or opportunity in physics. It also has a mathematical meaning in classic, fractal and computer branches of math. Which of these meanings are you trying to imply here? Also in case of mathemetical meaning, please provide full explanation of used axioma's in formula with references.

Okay, with last paragraph I just mean that entropy has so much different meaning that you cannot use it as connotation specific.



In closing I think that the lack of patience, the bias sexism and discrimation of players versus players, and even the lack of the reasoning of economics here are part of the cause. Couple to that to that the denial by players and this game indeed becomes that cliquism and para-mutual horse race everyone talks about. The so called "Casino Syndrome")

(oh and for those who think this is a casino? It's not the true sense of a casino and yet it is. . In fact a player poiinted this out.. that Entropia Universe is in fact a Para-mutual where you are the horse, andyou're betting on yourself to win, Thus you're your own horse. The proper choice of Armors, weapon and what and when to hunt combined with your own skills that you earn, determines whether you succeed or fail. It's not about luck, it's about the fact that many players do not play smarter they play harder, and yet a few players can and do play smarter, and not harder.. But the majority of players do fall into the former category and not the latter. No street smarts, no sense of value, no ability to work it out in game. Imagine putting those proactices in th real world.. YOu want that good paying job? Work for it..

So now when you factor in these things, stop and think long and hard about what can happen.. Can things change or improve? or will it remain the status quo? Only the autonomy, the chocies we make, certain decisions determines the full outcome whether this game succeeds or fails as well.

That about sums it up.. Now have i glossed over anything here? Cause if I have, then perhaps the discussion should continue, else the facts are on the table. laid out in front of yo, and that no one can truly deny.

After all you answered your own questions with your own deed and actions.

Benjamin Ben Coyote
a.k.a "The Blind sniper"


For the opening of your closing statement. You start of with an insult to the whole playerbase; which is never a good thing to say to your readers. I would actually say that based on your wording, you are the one having issues and not the playerbase.

Is EU a casino? Well it is possible to semantically AND logically prove that any RCE is a casino.
If however it is para-mutual in the strict sense; I doubt. Is it para-mutual on a holistic level? Yes, but so is a standard casino. Fact is, it does not matter if something is para-mutual in essence or gambling; in the end money flows from customer to house in both cases. The only difference is the techniques usable to try to "count the cards" to increase your odds.
But this is More something for the loot theory section; and I'm not willing to share my thoughts on this subject altogether.

No, our choices do not influence the game; just like you will not influence the stake of RL economy or even your local bank or company you don't own. The people running the stuff make choices. We individually have the choice to play, deposit, stop playing, redraw. That is it.

you glossed seemingly unrelated data and did not produce any fact whatsoever. All you did was giving comments without any form of data to back up any claims.
And what do you mean with "continue" discussion. There hasn't been any discussion to start of with?

And yes, our modus operandi is how most speak; and most of this you have not seen yet if I follow what you write here. I'm not going to laugh at your tracker history like my previous post hinted at; but I will say that there is a community out here and since I never met you in this community ingame, it might just be that you are in a different part of this world.
If you do, please drop the arrogance to say you speak for a community. I will never say I speak for newbies or new players, or ubers. But I speak for the people I met in game; most of them playing 5 to 9 years; and from them, most are wonderful people.
 
Lol, can't be bothered to read the whole post? That kind of attitude seems to become the standard these days.
If one is going to reply; isn't it common courtesy to read the entire post you are commenting on?
It would be like you were talking to somebody who is telling you about her voyage on the Titanic.
But halfway through you cut her off, and say: "I can't be bothered to listen to the whole long story. But that sounds like a great ship, though I think you should have booked a cabin below decks."

I find it regrettable that future generations will likely miss out on the pleasures of reading (books).
Seems that while technology progresses, humanity is regressing. Sorry, that's a personal opinion, and kinda off-topic. :ahh:


OT:
Nice discussion: the social aspect of gaming is interesting. Saw some good points, and some debatable points.
However tempting: you cannot overlay virtual behavior 1 on 1 to RL
Realistically, somebody killing in-game, will not (as a result) be inclined to do so IRL.
But, that's not to say that it doesn't have it's influence. We learn through repetition, until it becomes habitual or a reflex.
And repetition that's 'fun', aka a 'game' will accomplish this almost unnoticeably.

Kids that feel free to curse and abuse online everyday, will not do so (all the time) IRL, because the anonymity factor is not there.
And RL has some annoying things like accountability.
Still, in a stressful situation, that kid might be more prone to curse at someone, than a kid who has never had that 'practice', and therefore doesn't have that on the back of his tongue.
The same goes for cheating and other 'unwanted' behavior.
And even if this is a more mature community: human nature is not bound by age.


One example of the social changes (mentioned in the OP), appears to have started (and evolved?) since Space was made lootable.
As I understood, this has been sprung on players and PP's alike.
MA changed the 'laws' to realize their vision of Space, and needed players to become pirates/the 'bad guys', for that setup to work. Some fell for that, some choose consciously for that, and some jumped on the opportunity for 'legalized' stealing.
Because that appears to be the main pirate argument/justification, right? From: "You can't complain: it is legal, so I'm not doing anything wrong." To even 'advertise' with: "I legally steal RL money off people in-game."

Whether people were already inclined that way, and this just brought out their 'true nature', or if they were gradually changed by doing it over and over. It nevertheless is something that previously would have been regarded as 'wrong', but through a change of the 'law' by the 'authorities', has became 'acceptable'.
(Prohibition vs. drugs laws in the USA showed the same fickle right/wrong mechanics.)

To spare everyone more reading, I'll post a video. It shows how easy people can do things that otherwise would be considered morally wrong. As long they have 'permission' from an authority figure: the Milgram Experiment.

So, let it all slide, or fight to change things?
It seems an uphill battle against ourselves/human nature.

But more practically: EU has finally finished re-installing (for the fourth time today), so I'll return to playing the game.
Chances are that will provide more pleasure than reading the forum. ;)
HF.
 
Now if I could interject here after reading and re-reading a number of posts I would like to point out something to those fo you who commented that they didn't have time to read the entire article. You answered your own question about lack of patience..

This right there, proves the lack of patience in the game. Your own actions by not really digesting the entire thuoght process shows to others that you have no patience in the game. You're in it for the fast sell, the short term and not in it for the long haul.. And yes there are people who have been in this game a short while and who have decided to not stay around, because they lack the patience. Even when the people who have lack of patience don't or won't stick around to see a final resolution to any problem handed them.. They fail to learn to adapt to any new idea or concept handed them (perhaps the best example is space itself) and often quit out of the fact that they aren't creative enough to think logically the way to best optimize their returns in this game. They insted figure ways out how to screw other players over and leave them frustrated as well. not realizing that they're slitting their own throats by reducing their own returns.

Now for the ones who say "Be Kind to Noobs you have it partially right, it's not e kind to noobs, but rather be kind ot each other.. A lotof players have forgotten the golden rules of life, you're absolutely right, if you are the ones who keep a noob in game that new player might turn into a potential depositor, and thus your loot will and does improve, even though you say it doesn't.. You force a player not to play, and thus you are literally doing the same as the ones who have no patience as well. You'll end up behing the ones who cause your own downfall here.


Let's also face this fact: VIrtual Life, Or what I call VL, is in a way, starting to imitate or mimick real life or RL , with some subtle differences, shady dealings are the norm and not the exception here, piracy is akin to beng a school bully and beating up a studen for their lunch money (Though in some cases, it can be a paycheck if you want). and if not then the gap between the two are quickly narrowing to dangerous levels where the term "It's just a game" loses all meaning. In this case Reality and virtuality are in fact merging to become the same thing. All it would take is one or two events that could in theory invoke a hostile act against another player or players. I know of one player who just recently had to defuse a rather tense situation, and i'm starting to wonder how many more of these conflict will occur.. Then turn around and look at what we got in the real world at this very moment. you got anything form acts of Terrorism (In this "Game" it's "Pirates") to societal struggles (such as the Russians vs the Ukrainians are being emulated by the class battles of the land grabs that occur every week (and in some ways are much akin to local disputes and even all out war..

Let's take a look at another topic that exists in this game, and I'm referring to the "Battle fo the Genders". (or men vs women). In this case, the majority of avatars or rather the players behind the avatars are in fact male or oriented or sdominated,while the minority are indeed female. Yet when we look at the items that are "Gender based" (Clothes and armor most notably), the females get a better break then the males to. Which brngs up the point of "Gender bending" and most of the time this explains why some male players go in as female avatars (In fact, show me 1 female player who is posing as a male avatar, and I can show you at least 25 if not more male players posing as the exact opposite gender..)

And yet this game does not appeal to the women players that much. In this game however there is hope as there are some couples that exist in this universe, and I don't see why more couples don't get involved in this form of entertainment (remember John Neverdie singing about his "Gamer Chick?).. Maybe it's because of the "WoW factor" or other games that are out there. Maybe it's because they don't see the potential for having a lasintg relationship in this game. or maybe it's because some husbands or boyfriends are afraid or are jealous cause their significant other might be flirting or cheatingin a game (and vice versa).

(and yes I've read countless examples of this that exist outside this game. so the thing is this?. Is this "Jst a game Anymore" It's not.. It's art Imitating life.)

It's also interesting to note that some of us are in fact disabled (Myself and at least three other players that i know of ), So yeah even the handicapped or disabled are not always handicapped. They're handicapable.

The point is this. New players, female players, and even people with diabilites, are in fact treated with so much disrespect in this game, that a lot of times it's the players who commit these acts that set themselves up for the complaints of bad loot here. Yet they, the ones who treat others like this), in turn deny this issue and instead 90% of the time blame eveyrone else, but themselves. They wil blame anyone else, but themselves. This is the denial of this game. And it's a major denial no one wants to accept . Game developer indeed have bad designs in any game, and while some blame their misery cause of the game design, but with the the players help they could so correct this with the proper input. But even game companies can and do somethimes make bad deicison This is why feedback and support cases are necessary.

Does this game need players, Absolutely.. and yet while the same players who blame the companies and who don't put the input in, and blame everyone else Such as the planet partners, are the exact same ones who live in denial of the fact that without players their own loots will indeed go south.. (Thus my comment about "No bucks equal No Buck Rogers." and "Don't complain about the loot.. You're doing it to yourselves."

For without players this is just a form of entertainment much akin to a paramutual horse race and populatity contest, then a real social and economic game. And speaking of economics, Many players don't even know how economics or economies work both in the real world and in game, and it shows. Not only in the auction houses, but also on the meeting places we gather at. and thus it's their lack of research into economics and the ability to balance their own profits and loss, that determines their succcess or failure. If you can't work on a budget, or if you can't balance your check book in real life then maybe you should go back to school and take some courses in economics here. In this case the current market is in fact both sufering from Hyper Inflation of tools necessary to play, and Hyper devaluation of items looted (Hence the remark of "Don't sell to mthe TT, sell to the TT, at which point the player just tacks it onto the auction for their own profit gain.. Wash, rinse, repeat.. over and over again.. (And now you wonder why this game is called Entropia Universe? Entropy is part of the game Look it up in a dictionary sometime.. Eventually you'll see where this game is really headed).

In closing I think that the lack of patience, the bias sexism and discrimation of players versus players, and even the lack of the reasoning of economics here are part of the cause. Couple to that to that the denial by players and this game indeed becomes that cliquism and para-mutual horse race everyone talks about. The so called "Casino Syndrome")

(oh and for those who think this is a casino? It's not the true sense of a casino and yet it is. . In fact a player poiinted this out.. that Entropia Universe is in fact a Para-mutual where you are the horse, andyou're betting on yourself to win, Thus you're your own horse. The proper choice of Armors, weapon and what and when to hunt combined with your own skills that you earn, determines whether you succeed or fail. It's not about luck, it's about the fact that many players do not play smarter they play harder, and yet a few players can and do play smarter, and not harder.. But the majority of players do fall into the former category and not the latter. No street smarts, no sense of value, no ability to work it out in game. Imagine putting those proactices in th real world.. YOu want that good paying job? Work for it..

So now when you factor in these things, stop and think long and hard about what can happen.. Can things change or improve? or will it remain the status quo? Only the autonomy, the chocies we make, certain decisions determines the full outcome whether this game succeeds or fails as well.

That about sums it up.. Now have i glossed over anything here? Cause if I have, then perhaps the discussion should continue, else the facts are on the table. laid out in front of yo, and that no one can truly deny.

After all you answered your own questions with your own deed and actions.

Benjamin Ben Coyote
a.k.a "The Blind sniper"

If I tried to read even half of the first post I would get logged out of the forum and not be able to read the other new posts. :(
 
Just my own observations but people tend be to more social and talkative with others if they're enjoying what they're doing.

I remember the old EU where people would give away armour to newbies not because they were their mentors but just because they didn't have any armour.
 
Cognitive attribution bias

The personality attributes and actions of one-self, as part of a learned response process are replicated(or in game) in life as a response or reaction. Displacement: Reaction formation.

Ben,

I think your second response is substantive and raises valid points. Each thing you are discussing does in fact exist in some form in this game.

However I think you have neglected to discuss, in terms of social psychology, the impact of relative anonymity on the social process in MMO's, using Entropia Universe as a specific example.

While the other points you mention are ever present, the defining factor in the psychological process in MMORPG's is not gender, or a persons status as a novice. The defining factor is that each person in here is anonymous.

I'll give you three examples:

1) An individual suffers from social anxiety. This person finds the everyday social process to be a painful one; fearing how they are perceived by others they keep their social outings to a minimum. They however log on an MMORPG and find themselves eagerly discussing all manner of things through their proxy avatar.

In this situation the anonymity of the internet has allowed a person to bypass a personal issue, empowering them to engage others on a positive level.

2) An individual is abusive, suspicious by nature, and mean spirited. This person finds the everyday social process to be a limiting one, as they may have gotten punched in the face one too many times. Or perhaps not. Perhaps they are a coward and have never allowed their interior monologue to branch out into the real world. They however log on an MMORPG and find themselves quickly mocking others, pointing out each and every flaw they can in a near constant attempt to belittle and shame others. They do this through their proxy avatar, or perhaps even a dozen or more proxy avatars.

In this situation the anonymity of the internat has allowed a person to actively embrace a personal issue, empowering them to engage others on a negative level.

3) An individual is prone to negative thinking. They may be a normally decent individual, but their glass is always half empty. This person finds the everyday social process to be a limiting one, because they are often left out of social circles due to their near constant whining about how things are not perfect. They however log on an MMORPG and find themselves engaging with others of a like mind who feel that because they are in a product, rather than simply engaging in day to day existence, they can demand the perfection they do not see in the real world.

In this situation the anonymity of the internet has allowed a person to actively engage in a life conflict. They are now allowed to pursue and possibly even claim perfection. Empowered, they find their confidence, ultimately however the confidence is hollow as the individual can quickly retreat from rejection, using the avatar or online identity as a sort of shield.

This is not an exhaustive list, but is intended to show how the anonymous nature of the internet allows people to embrace their own psychological natures, be they either positive, negative, or some mix between the two.

An abusive individual will veer more towards sexism, usury, and mischief in an online environment. A negative individual might complain excessively. An obsessive person may become overly concerned with a topic, unable to see the bigger picture. All of these contribute to a negative environment. And all of these people may be more extreme in their normal behaviors because there is no actual social consequence for doing so.
 
Just my own observations but people tend be to more social and talkative with others if they're enjoying what they're doing.

I remember the old EU where people would give away armour to newbies not because they were their mentors but just because they didn't have any armour.

:confused: Are you implying that grinding iron missions until your eyes bleed is not a fun time? :confused:

How can this be?

On a more serious note, I think the entire mission system has been a detriment to this universe by encouraging people to grind in solitude for hours upon hours. Back in the day, we didn't have all these missions and goals provided to us. We had to think up our own goals and create our own fun. That was the POINT of this universe. It forced us to be social, not anti-social.

I know many players were begging MA to give us a mission system... but I was hoping for something more... lively. I would rather have them delete all the current missions and only release missions like HUNT THE THING, even if it was only 1 mission per VU. Just my 2 pec.
 
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