Suggestion: Reduce TT Value Of High TT Clothes

So you wouldn't want them to reduce your 200tt coat to 20tt and give you 180ped to play with?

no, I wouldn't! TT on clothes is part of the value of the clothes... a 200tt coat with 100mu is 300 ped coat, but they reduce it to 20tt, my 300 ped coat is now a 120 ped coat! I'm not going to save that 180 ped in storage until I decide to sell my clothes, I'm going to blow through it hunting, and that will happen so fast, it will be like they never even gave it to me!

and I suspect a lot of the mu's on clothes will drop if the TT drops so low... a lot more people will be able to afford nice clothes, a lot more people will then have the nice clothes, and a lot more people will then be recycling and reselling the nice clothes and their value will drop due to abundance for sale and competition! supply & demand!

That's how I see that going... I wouldn't want them to reduce the value to my armors, faps, guns, amps, or anything else I own either!
 
Bump it up!

Reduce TT of all high TT clothes will be great for the whole community! :)
come on MA.

Wouldn't this be a nerf ?
Nerfs are usually bad -right?

It all really depends on what MA decide to do with clothing. What if they had originally planned on clothing to have a useful purpose as in other rpgs (eg buff gains) but never got round to implementing it? What if they still intend to do something like that ?
 
Wouldn't this be a nerf ?
Nerfs are usually bad -right?


This would not be a nerf.

Take 200TT Coat, split the TT value, to make it a 20TT coat and the player gets the difference of 180 peds.

It would free up the peds for people to hunt, mine, craft, save, invest, etc.
Having a coat that is 200TT value doesn't make sense when NEW coats have been introduced for example, that are only 5 or 10TT.

So if someone wants to buy a coat, would you take the 8 TT + 70 MU? coat? costing 78 peds
Or would you buy an "old" coat that is 200T + 70 MU? costing 270 peds. ?
when they both look almost the exact same?

This is just one example of clothing. It is a lot more than just the Coats used in the example here... all the old clothing in the game usually had higher TT values. So if someone had 5+ outfits for example, it would be thousands of peds tied up just for those clothes.

Thus the decade of old clothes and things ingame with higher TT values are deturing people from ever buying that stuff again because of the higher TT values associated. And all of those who own those things have many peds tied up and they are much harder to sell now because of that reason.

In comparison with all the newer clothes being added now, which all have VERY low TT values.
 
I am very happy to have high tt clothes so I dont see all noob running around in my clothes

I dont want this to change those are luxury item

They can make some low tt and some high tt

one of the few thing fun left come on

and since the last avatar remake almost all clothes look bad
 
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I am very happy to have high tt clothes so I dont see all noob running around in my clothes

The clothes in question are mostly (C) customizable. As in, you can apply custom paints and textures in order to make them look different or unique. Lowering the TT value of the items in question would not change that.
 
That's how I see that going... I wouldn't want them to reduce the value to my armors, faps, guns, amps, or anything else I own either!

The values on those items are needed for decay, in order to hunt or mine longer without having to repair. The TT value has a function. So it matters, a lot more than the clothes where the TT value isn't part of its function.

The condition limit on some UL weapons for example was lowered from 50% down to 3%. This was a huge help to the community using such items. I had an Emik X5 gun for example, TT value 20k, condition limit of 10ktt... is when the gun has to be repaired. So you would have to always keep the 10kTT locked in the gun and even repair it then in order to use it. Also making buying or selling it more difficult. MA reduced this limit, so people could then free up those peds and use it for other things. So the 10k tt no longer had to be tied up in the gun. Isn't that a good thing? Everyone loved it. Who would be against that?

The same thing could be true for these clothes.

MA also reduced the TT value on signs for shops/apartments. they used to have 90% condition limit, that was reduced down, so an estate owner didn't have to have 50k peds tied up in a bunch of signs or art or anything else they wanted to display. Rather than each sign being 100+ TT value, they can now be placed when they are only a couple peds TT.

MA also reduced the TT value of makeup masks, so avatars could customize their avatars easier by having several masks without tieing up thousands of peds in the process.

The exact same thing would be true in the scenario with clothes! :wise:
 
clothes aren't stackable items with 100+X%, so their markup stays just the same TT+xxx PED :wise:

I understand that... what I'm trying to say is do you really think the MU will stay the same if the TT value is reduced for 200 to 20 PED for example?
 
something like a terminal, where you can put your ped and extract the excess of ped into your balance would be perfect imo, after all, it'd be more ped potentially being cycled and wasted away instead of sitting there, and it'd make easier for clothing to gain more market and interest imo.

That would require all clicks (when expensive tt wise) would bring a full tt piece of clothing, which isnt a bad idea. because at the end, ppl end up repairing for the looks, but some prolly have few ks in clothing just because of the silly TT
 
I believe a start should be remove the 2pec decay while you equip. The hats and L clothings goes way too fast
 
Here are some examples of really high tt clothes (In Red) versus their low TT counterparts (In Green)
------------------------
- Cognac Coat 209 PED (This is the most popular coat ingame)
- Master Coat 130 PED
- Holiday Coat 5 PED
------------------------
- Racer Shades 162 PED
- Bono Shades 150 PED
- Tropical Shades 0.50 PED
------------------------
- Rancher Hat 89 PED
- Feodora 102 PED
- Holiday Hat 8 PED
-------------------------
- Ellen Evening gown 246.50 PED
- Foxy High Stilettos 199 PED
- Athenian tunic 8 PED
.... Etc

And you think thats huge amount of PEDs locked in clothes ???

Just some numbers about unlimited weapons that have been usable to min. 50% befor update you mentioned:

Isis HL18 --> 23564 == ~11500 PED locked
Assasin R150 --> 13704 == ~ 6750 PED locked
Rutic Bett --> 10496 == ~ 5200 PED locked
Breer P5a --> 6536 == ~ 3250 PED locked
KorssH350 --> 2972 == ~ 1500 PED locked

Even the cheapest low level gun mentioned here usable to min. 50% locked more PED than all the clothes you mentioned together!

Hope you see that its peanuts that are locked in clothes, compared to PED locked in weapons befor the update you mentioned
 
I am very happy to have high tt clothes so I dont see all noob running around in my clothes

I dont want this to change those are luxury item

The clothes in question are mostly (C) customizable. As in, you can apply custom paints and textures in order to make them look different or unique. Lowering the TT value of the items in question would not change that.

you miss the point here, it's not the customizations he's talking about, those can be done to all (C) clothes for the same price... he's talking about things like Squared Pants for example, 254TT and low markup! They are rare in part because of their high TT, but if they were low tt/low mu, a lot more people would have them! They would not be as special as they are for the few who tied up the peds to wear them! Lowering the TT of high TT clothes destroys what makes them special! :wise:
The values on those items are needed for decay, in order to hunt or mine longer without having to repair. The TT value has a function. So it matters, a lot more than the clothes where the TT value isn't part of its function.
The TT value is part of the function, as explained above...
The condition limit on some UL weapons for example was lowered from 50% down to 3%. This was a huge help to the community using such items. I had an Emik X5 gun for example, TT value 20k, condition limit of 10ktt... is when the gun has to be repaired. So you would have to always keep the 10kTT locked in the gun and even repair it then in order to use it. Also making buying or selling it more difficult. MA reduced this limit, so people could then free up those peds and use it for other things. So the 10k tt no longer had to be tied up in the gun. Isn't that a good thing? Everyone loved it. Who would be against that?

The same thing could be true for these clothes.
they did not reduce the maximum TT condition of the weapons, and they did not give 47% of the TT to the owners in the form of ped, so it is not the same thing... Do you think X5 owners would want their 20KTT gun reduced to 2K with 0% condition limit? I think they wouldn't, even if the difference was delivered in ped, and I suspect that would reduce the usefulness and value of the gun...

an even comparison to the weapons adjustment instead of reducing TT value to 10%, would be if max TT of clothes remained as is, but clothes did not appear decayed until, let's say 10% condition, which would in fact be a welcomed change! But I believe the decay on equipping/removing clothing is soon to be eliminated, which is a better solution!

Reducing the TT value to 10% and paying out the difference doesn't benefit the people who have worked hard to put together an elaborate outfit or 2! Maybe in the very short-term they get a small amount of extra ped to play with, but in the long-term it will reduce their items value and rarity due to easy access for everybody to afford everything... Reducing the TT value to 10% and paying out the difference will only benefit the handful of people who have tons and tons of high TT clothes (mainly crafters and shop owners, and the very rare fashion connoisseur), who will receive a one-time instant massive payout on all those clothes like they just won the lottery!

no thanks, don't nerf my clothes! :pimp:
 
Do you think X5 owners would want their 20KTT gun reduced to 2K with 0% condition limit?

Yes, I guarantee you every single one of them would.
 
Hope you see that its peanuts that are locked in clothes, compared to PED locked in weapons befor the update you mentioned

The reason this thread was created was due to the fact that MA made the changes to shop fee, and the condition limit of guns, and makeup masks etc. So doing this to make the game better for clothes and customizing better would be the same thing.

I didn't talk about the clothes any time before the weapons update. Yes a lot of TT was held up in the guns, which made no sense at all. When they changed it everyone was happy.

People usually only had 1 gun tying up the peds... whereas some avatars have TONNES of clothing sets, which the total of them would be a lot higher TT than one of those guns. But we are talking about for the whole community. The total TT held up in all these clothes doesn't fit the game anymore... since MA has been making everything more accessible and lower TT for people.
 
you miss the point here, it's not the customizations he's talking about, those can be done to all (C) clothes for the same price... he's talking about things like Squared Pants for example, 254TT and low markup! They are rare in part because of their high TT, but if they were low tt/low mu, a lot more people would have them! They would not be as special as they are for the few who tied up the peds to wear them! Lowering the TT of high TT clothes destroys what makes them special! :wise:

This would be a tiny benefit of the high TT compared to the HUGE benefit that the rest of the community would get from this change.

they did not reduce the maximum TT condition of the weapons, and they did not give 47% of the TT to the owners in the form of ped, so it is not the same thing... Do you think X5 owners would want their 20KTT gun reduced to 2K with 0% condition limit? I think they wouldn't, even if the difference was delivered in ped, and I suspect that would reduce the usefulness and value of the gun...

I know they didn't reduce the max, the point is that tonnes of peds were locked in these items in order to use them. The same as with clothes. When MA made the change on weapons, it unlocked all those peds for people... with so many benefits for everyone. 0 people were mad.

And yes EVERY single weapons owner would want the difference in peds, rather then it being tied up in the TT value of the weapon. it's 100% useless to be tied up in the weapon like that for no reason.

an even comparison to the weapons adjustment instead of reducing TT value to 10%, would be if max TT of clothes remained as is, but clothes did not appear decayed until, let's say 10% condition, which would in fact be a welcomed change! But I believe the decay on equipping/removing clothing is soon to be eliminated, which is a better solution!

Reducing the TT value to 10% and paying out the difference doesn't benefit the people who have worked hard to put together an elaborate outfit or 2! Maybe in the very short-term they get a small amount of extra ped to play with, but in the long-term it will reduce their items value and rarity due to easy access for everybody to afford everything... Reducing the TT value to 10% and paying out the difference will only benefit the handful of people who have tons and tons of high TT clothes (mainly crafters and shop owners, and the very rare fashion connoisseur), who will receive a one-time instant massive payout on all those clothes like they just won the lottery!

This is completely false.
In fact the high TT value of old clothes is what has killed the market value of all of these peoples you talk about's outfits.
All coats used to have value of +100+ peds. so for example someone who had 10 outfits, and 10 of these coats... that is +1000 peds MU.

Because new coats were introduced with 7.5TT vs 200TT for them to look their best.... this made those same coats that were worth +100MU = almost nothing... +20 peds at best. So the person in the example went for +1000 MU down to +200 MU just on their coats alone.

So what you have said, is false. The opposite is actually true, and has already happened. As you can see with just the 1 simple example of the coats...
 
This is completely false.
In fact the high TT value of old clothes is what has killed the market value of all of these peoples you talk about's outfits.
All coats used to have value of +100+ peds. so for example someone who had 10 outfits, and 10 of these coats... that is +1000 peds MU.

Because new coats were introduced with 7.5TT vs 200TT for them to look their best.... this made those same coats that were worth +100MU = almost nothing... +20 peds at best. So the person in the example went for +1000 MU down to +200 MU just on their coats alone.

So what you have said, is false. The opposite is actually true, and has already happened. As you can see with just the 1 simple example of the coats...
how is it that "the high TT value of old clothes is what has killed the market value"?...

you even say it yourself - "Because new coats were introduced with 7.5TT vs 200TT for them to look their best.... this made those same coats that were worth +100MU = almost nothing... +20 peds at best." That would be the introduction of low TT clothing alternatives to high TT clothes killing the markup of old clothes with high TT value!

how can you say what I said is false, when you say the exact same thing? :scratch2:

as for weapons, a higher max TT allows for heavy grinders to have the option to repair less often, it's more convenient to have 20KTT useable than 2KTT on a weapon like X5... the option is more valuable than a constraint of 2K, which is easy to grind through with a weapon like that!... though I do see the benefit of freeing up an unusable 10K in gun repair via condition limit, the value does not translate to clothing in the same way, like I said max TT of weapons was not reduced and that option is still available with those items, and that has value!
 
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how is it that "the high TT value of old clothes is what has killed the market value"?...

The thread was about the fact that new low TT clothes has killed the markets on these old ones, AND it is imblanced now to have so much tied up in clothes when the trend of the game has been lower TT stuff, and more customizable options etc for an avatar. Thus the high TT clothes is the problem now.
And that lowering the TT on them, and giving peds back to avatar would be the best solution. Since clothes need to be fully repaired in order to look their best. SO the TT value has a function, however it is inconvenient to have so much TT tied up in all the clothes.

as for weapons, a higher max TT allows for heavy grinders to have the option to repair less often, it's more convenient to have 20KTT useable than 2KTT on a weapon like X5... the option is more valuable than a constraint of 2K, which is easy to grind through with a weapon like that!

the high TT value is bad on guns like this. I own an X5. it's not fun to go to repair terminal and have to adjust the slider low amounts to repair it a bit.. VS repaing a gun to FULL TT, is much better.
NOONE is going to repair an X5 to full tt... why lock up that extra 20k tt? Also sucks if you accidentally fully repair it, which I did once by accident... and then 20k tied up in the gun... until you shoot it a billion times to get it back to low condition.

heavy grinder will not fully repair it. You don't need 20k tt to burn for a hunt. 2k would last long enough for any grinder by the time they need to repair armour etc anyhow. also the fact there is personal repair terminals in the game too.

The high TT value is NOT more convenient.
 
The thread was about the fact that new low TT clothes has killed the markets on these old ones, AND it is imblanced now to have so much tied up in clothes when the trend of the game has been lower TT stuff, and more customizable options etc for an avatar. Thus the high TT clothes is the problem now.
And that lowering the TT on them, and giving peds back to avatar would be the best solution. Since clothes need to be fully repaired in order to look their best. SO the TT value has a function, however it is inconvenient to have so much TT tied up in all the clothes.

well, I guess I just see it a little differently... yes, the introduction of lower TT alternatives to high TT clothes is what killed the markup on the old clothes, but now with that being the case, the high TT values are how those old clothes retain their value and prestige! If all the the clothes are reduced to low TT, none of them will be special anymore! A lot of people who are into the fashion take pride in owning rarer clothing! :yup:

I get that people who own a huge collection of full high TT clothing will get a nice fat payout... but really the majority of people who invested a lot into their main outfit don't have a ton of clothes, and the payback doesn't outweigh the sentimental value overall in my opinion! I prefer to keep rare clothes rare, it just seems better that way to me for most people rather than fat payouts for the few with big closets! :thumbup:
 
I can see bringing the max TT of the old-school high TT clothes down to 50 ped each, placing the balance on the respective items holder's ped card, IF the current TT of said item was higher than that.

Still high enough TT for globals, and "quality adjustements" via decaying, but lower and more manageable.
 
It isn't as much for the fat payouts as you say. But instead to keep everything more balanced and give many more options for all avatars, rather then restrict them. This should be a place where people can customize their avatars with how they look. The clothes they wear. Makeup masks. How their Apartments and Shops look. Future Land plots, etc etc etc.

And if that is the case, having things lowered in TT value helps to achieve that goal. A new player will have MORE options in clothing and ways to customize their avatar to make themselves unique or however they want to be without being restricted by the unbalanced and high TT values of so many items, as compared to their newer counterparts. The more options the better. And the current playerbase will also have benefits because of the peds not being tied up. So they can expand their clothing outfits or use it for whatever else.

-Makeup masks were too expensive in TT... so it restricted the use of them, and not many had them, or had more than 1 of them. Lower the TT and it gives people more ability to customize their avatar.
-Lower the condition limit on signs, a tonne more people can use them and be creative.
-Remove the monthly shop fees, and a result is it opens the doors literally, for way more shops to now be useful and actually be open with stock inside.

As seen with all these other changes MA has made, this seems to fit perfectly in line with that. That was the point of the thread. For the greater good of the community and the huge majority of players.
 
I agree that high TT clothes should be reduced to a more reasonable cost. However, reduce it too much on an item like the Cognac Coat and a lot of people won't be very happy about it. For example when the Elder Coat came out they were low TT and low cost to craft and people got upset that anyone with a low stash of peds could buy a long customizable coat, which in general people like to think of as more of a luxury item. So they made the coat expensive to craft, the price went back up and people stopped complaining. If you want to compare these two coats so that they are completely balanced with each other, the Cognac Coat would need to be reduced to a TT of roughly 75-85 peds, at current redulite MU.
 
I don't think it's possible to balance all things on an item by item basis. However most of the old clothes have a 5-10 times higher TT value in general compared to all the new clothes. The cognac coat was just the example here, but it goes for almost all the old clothes.

Noone will buy a cognac even if the MU now has died to +20. They would rather buy a new coat with MU of +80. Since in that current MU, Cognac = 220, and new coat = 87.5. So even with 4 times higher markup on the item. The cost of the coat is still basically 1/3 of the cost of a cognac coat. This is an example of just how imbalanced the TT values are. Take a cognac at TT value, no MU. And the new coat is still less than half the total cost.

A TT reduction needs to be done on the old clothes. 50% or 70% or some value, across the board would be the easiest solution. Clothes could all be more uniform in the TT values, and it would open up a lot of markets and give all players more selection to customize their avatars.
:)
 
I don't think it's possible to balance all things on an item by item basis. However most of the old clothes have a 5-10 times higher TT value in general compared to all the new clothes. The cognac coat was just the example here, but it goes for almost all the old clothes.

Noone will buy a cognac even if the MU now has died to +20. They would rather buy a new coat with MU of +80. Since in that current MU, Cognac = 220, and new coat = 87.5. So even with 4 times higher markup on the item. The cost of the coat is still basically 1/3 of the cost of a cognac coat. This is an example of just how imbalanced the TT values are. Take a cognac at TT value, no MU. And the new coat is still less than half the total cost.

A TT reduction needs to be done on the old clothes. 50% or 70% or some value, across the board would be the easiest solution. Clothes could all be more uniform in the TT values, and it would open up a lot of markets and give all players more selection to customize their avatars.
:)

This, I noticed from talking to several people, that when they shop for clothes ingame, they have a stiff budget, meaning they will spend say 200 ped, regardless of MU, but its stuck at 200, so if the coat costs a TT of 100 and +5 markup, theyd rather purchase a bunch of other pieces for much less TT and higher markups. When it comes to clothes TT or MU is very irrelevant, since it's all about the looks, if it looks good people pay more regardless of difficulty or TT. but TT+MU might be an issue for a lot of people, as having peds tied in a "vanity" item is not necessarily a good policy ^_^

I overall agree with the statement above, but balancing older items might disrupt materials pricings aswell, which should really be the main concern here.
 
This, I noticed from talking to several people, that when they shop for clothes ingame, they have a stiff budget, meaning they will spend say 200 ped, regardless of MU, but its stuck at 200, so if the coat costs a TT of 100 and +5 markup, theyd rather purchase a bunch of other pieces for much less TT and higher markups. When it comes to clothes TT or MU is very irrelevant, since it's all about the looks, if it looks good people pay more regardless of difficulty or TT. but TT+MU might be an issue for a lot of people, as having peds tied in a "vanity" item is not necessarily a good policy ^_^

I overall agree with the statement above, but balancing older items might disrupt materials pricings aswell, which should really be the main concern here.

Thats the thing with clothing
THere's no "eco"
people just make a budget for it
So tt is insignificant almost
People would rather buy a sick as fuck looking coat for +4k ped and be 5 ped tt
Than probably a 5k tt one, even tho the 4k ped one might suffer market loss and all
 
Noone will buy a cognac even if the MU now has died to +20. They would rather buy a new coat with MU of +80. Since in that current MU, Cognac = 220, and new coat = 87.5. So even with 4 times higher markup on the item. The cost of the coat is still basically 1/3 of the cost of a cognac coat. This is an example of just how imbalanced the TT values are. Take a cognac at TT value, no MU. And the new coat is still less than half the total cost.

that's how it should be, if people prefer the look of the older higher TT item and that's what they want, they will invest in it! If they don't like it enough to spend the extra peds, then they'll get something cheaper, but they can have a more expensive item if they like it better if they're willing to pay more for it!... that's pretty much the case with everything in-game, if it's more expensive either invest the extra money or settle for something cheaper!

just because there are cheaper alternatives, doesn't mean the values should be lowered so everything costs relatively the same! Lowering the TT isn't going to raise the mu, it's just lowering the value of the items!
 
I don't think it's possible to balance all things on an item by item basis. However most of the old clothes have a 5-10 times higher TT value in general compared to all the new clothes. The cognac coat was just the example here, but it goes for almost all the old clothes.

Noone will buy a cognac even if the MU now has died to +20. They would rather buy a new coat with MU of +80. Since in that current MU, Cognac = 220, and new coat = 87.5. So even with 4 times higher markup on the item. The cost of the coat is still basically 1/3 of the cost of a cognac coat. This is an example of just how imbalanced the TT values are. Take a cognac at TT value, no MU. And the new coat is still less than half the total cost.

A TT reduction needs to be done on the old clothes. 50% or 70% or some value, across the board would be the easiest solution. Clothes could all be more uniform in the TT values, and it would open up a lot of markets and give all players more selection to customize their avatars.
:)

Yea, getting a perfect balance wasn't really my point, just that differing TT values do have a impact on separating items classified as more luxury from those that are not. That being said, if an older coat and newer coat were somewhat balanced in price like the Cognac Coat and Elder Coat for example, I don't think (for the most part) people would choose the newer one over the older simply because of that reason (new clothes do have a higher value, but that only lasts for a very short time and then they settle into the general economic price). It really just depends on the look someone wants. There's designs i can do with the Cognac Coat that i can't do with the Elder Coat and visa versa.

But in general there really should be a set TT value on the different types of clothes according to their prestige and regulated by MA, instead of everything being all over the board. If PP want to make something more rare they can always up the crafting cost.
 
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