POLL: Do you think that reaving is, ethically, the same as pirating?

Do you think that looting players in planet-side PvP is, ethically, the same as looting players in s

  • Yes

    Votes: 51 51.0%
  • No

    Votes: 48 48.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 8 8.0%

  • Total voters
    100
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Mercurio Thomaso Morat
From an ethical or moral perspective, do you think that reaving (i.e. looting players in planet-side PvP) is the same as pirating (looting players in space PvP)? Please feel free to post the rationale for your point of view.
 
This concept has been argued on this forum many times in many threads. Does it really need to be gone through again?
 
My thoughts no It is not the same at all.

Planet side, both parties enter into a pvp area willingly for the purpose of participating in pvp. (yes you may just want to mine the area, but you CAN mine other areas, and CAN buy the moss on AH).

Space side, Both parties are not willing participants, entering the area to do battle. Rather, people are traveling to other destinations, through the ONLY path to get there, and other people (pirates) are hiding there waiting to ambush them, kill them, and steal from them.

Then the naysayers say...but just take a Mothership (I agree its the only way to travel) but, MS they still get attacked, you still get harassed by the pirates, you still get your trip time drastically increased.

Pirate encounters are frustrating experiences that leave you dead or broke or both. Which is further aggravated by the knowledge that it was a real live person that chose to murder you and rob you, and that unmoral action was sanctioned by MA.
 
Space side, Both parties are not willing participants, entering the area to do battle.

are you *forced* to enter space? no. and you certainly arent murdered either last time i checked, either literally or virtually. its closest analogue is going into a casino... (always with the gambling round here), you take a risk whether you will lose something or not, and you only risk what you put in.
 
The problem and ethical/moral difference comes in when players utilize exploits to gain an upper hand. This is especially true in space because people going there aren't typically looking for a PVP fight.

One of the most egregious examples is the time when pirates in Nebula Virus Elite were exploiting the summons function to cause people hunting and mining planet side to inadvertently accept a summons, causing them to transport to space when they didn't want to go there, and then dumping them into lootable PVP and looting them when they have a full inventory of stackable loot.
 
are you *forced* to enter space? no. and you certainly arent murdered either last time i checked, either literally or virtually. its closest analogue is going into a casino... (always with the gambling round here), you take a risk whether you will lose something or not, and you only risk what you put in.

No your not forced to travel the Entropia Universe, in fact your not even forced to login and play, however if you do want to play in the Entropia Universe, it requires traveling in the universe through space.

unless of course you honestly think if someone does not like being killed, they should not log in? or perhaps limit yourself to only experience 1/10th of the Universe by limiting yourself to one place, perhaps stay always on foma, fun times.

As it is if you decide to play in the universe, someone else has decided you must submit to pvp, death, and theft from your "fellow" players. all in all a really crappy system, that encourages foul behavior, and divides the community by making victims out of explorers, and making thieves out of gamers.

Ps, what you mean your not murdered? maybe your not attached to your character, does not mean everyone is not. every time I die, at the hands of a real person, it makes me want to uninstall EU, I fight down that feeling, but not everyone will.

I have never lost any loot in space, and still space pvp its a emotional disaster usually resulting in me kicking the shit out of my dog after being murdered by some punk. I can only imagine how nuclear it would be if I lost any serious money to it. I can totally relate to people that have quit playing after a pirate loss.
 
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Demagogy...


Some people just want to "argue" because. Just because.
 
Ps, what you mean your not murdered? maybe your not attached to your character, does not mean everyone is not. every time I die, at the hands of a real person, it makes me want to uninstall EU, I fight down that feeling, but not everyone will.

because you are regenerated within 10 seconds, with no cost but abit of time to reposition yourself. i cant find myself deeply attached to a character thats "died" a thousand times. why does a pvp make you want to quit but not death by mob?
 
because it was another real person, choosing to cause me harm / negative actions, supported and encouraged by the company my deposits feed. guess I cant explain it better than.....PVP SUCKS

Death from a mob, np rinse repeat. death from person, much more personal and since killing them back wont make anything stop..there is no way to defend against PVP other than to not play, granted thats an option but 5 years deep into this game, and knowing everything changes, I hope to hold on until space either is more reasonable, or it becomes clear it never will be. (MS travel makes it manageable, but still far from enjoyable)
 
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because it was another real person, choosing to cause me harm / negative actions, supported and encouraged by the company my deposits feed. guess I cant explain it better than.....PVP SUCKS

Death from a mob, np rinse repeat. death from person, much more personal and since killing them back wont make anything stop..there is no way to defend against PVP other than to not play, granted thats an option but 5 years deep into this game, and knowing everything changes, I hope to hold on until space either is more reasonable, or it becomes clear it never will be. (MS travel makes it manageable, but still far from enjoyable)

a) you should get medical help IRL;
b) computer games aren't made for you and you should try something completely different.
 
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a) you should get medical help IRL;
b) computer games aren't made for you and you should try something completely different.

I would agree that PVP games are not made for me, and its only an issue in EU for me since PVP was added to my game life, years after I started playing. However I manage :) I dont have to "like" every aspect of the game to make it work.

but when someone asks about how people feel about space, sure ill share, I think PVP sucks donkey nuts, forced (or highly pressed upon pvp whatever you want to call placing bandits on the main highway, is the worst), and I hope for a day a lone traveler with no loot can move from one place to the other with out pvp from other players (will it ever happen who knows, years ago we never thought space itself would happen, its growing, evolving, there is still hope imo.)

P.S. I get medical help regularly I especially find a medical blunt right after a pk death to be helpful, the dog appreciates it to.
 
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I think the fundamental difference is the toxic shot. I consider it to be an ante or bet, as in " I bet I can kill you before you kill me" or "I bet I can sneak out with all this loot before you catch me". In space, there's no such mechanic, so the ethics are far more murky.
 
I think the fundamental difference is the toxic shot. I consider it to be an ante or bet, as in " I bet I can kill you before you kill me" or "I bet I can sneak out with all this loot before you catch me". In space, there's no such mechanic, so the ethics are far more murky.

I agree 100%
 
I agree 100%
I think thrusters = space's equivalent to the toxic shot. Yes, it's not exactly the same, but it is more or less... no way to exit atmosphere in to space without one, just like no way to enter pvp on planet without a shot. Of course, there's ways around that with motherships, but that's a whole different level... essentially ms acts like wormhole and some wormholes have pulled folks in to pvp in the past from time to time I hear.
 
Reach conclusion they're different in 3 easy steps:

  1. Conveniently forget there's 2 options for Space travel (Quads and MS services).
  2. Now u can make a conclusion Space and Planetside PvP are different "because one is forced and another isn't".
  3. Once u declared them different, it allows u to call one "ethical" another "unethical".

Ability to make faulty generalizations and jump into wrong conclusions is so deeply human it should be used in the CAPTCHA tests. Robots would fail every time... :yup:
 
From an ethical or moral perspective, do you think that reaving (i.e. looting players in planet-side PvP) is the same as pirating (looting players in space PvP)? Please feel free to post the rationale for your point of view.

Look at the reasons people are in those locations.

If your in planetside lootable PVP , your not there by accident your there because you want to either mine resources or kill mobs that dont exist anywhere else. So you then have an extra risk attached to getting what ever resources your after. Hence the end price for these are maybe higher. In planetside PVP it is ( well was when I did it ) if your mining something that really gets the adrenaline flowing especially when your being chased by a known pker and getting away really gave a buzz.

In space you are probably only there because you want to travel to a different planet, the whole place is lootable pvp apart from the areas around the spacestations , there is no where to hide once you get a pirate on your tail.

In both cases you know ( or should know ) that if you are carrying stackables in those locations you stand a good chance to lose what your carrying. You are the one taking the risk.

If you want to travel to another planet and want to transport your stuff then there really is only one option unless you really want to get some buzz out of carrying stuff in space.

Moraly I think its the same , you are there in either location and someone wants your stuff. The only problem comes in when a pirate uses an exploit ( eg the summoning fuckup) then of course its not ethical or moral.

The question does beg though if your in space of your own free will in a quad or sleipnir why are you carrying anything that could be looted ? If no one carried anything in a quad or sleipnir , the way space is right now then the pirate "issue" would just go away.

I saw a guy the other night complaining like crazy that he had been looted , was this his fault or the pirates?
 
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I think thrusters = space's equivalent to the toxic shot. Yes, it's not exactly the same....

No, thrusters are just a tool to go from a planet area to a space area.
And can not be compared or justified beeing the reason why space is lootable.

I agree with the definition of the toxic shot as a bet.

Space beeing lootable was designed for mothership wars and fights, or such announced story lines.
The storylines are gone (like if it was something new), but lootable area is still there.

Would you imagine the game if the whole calypso was lootable ?

But I guess they don't care, that's the Planet "Partners" who are on the other sides...
 
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Ok,

I voted "No" for the same reasons as most others. You are not forced into planetside PVP and it is not a game requirement.

Devil and Angel.

At the noob rig on "Caly"

I totally disapprove of players killing the noobs queuing to collect oil at the Caly noob rig

I totally approve of players killing the noobs collecting oil at the Ark noob rig or at the Caly main rig.

So I sound like a hypocrit right !

Well actually there is a difference. At the noob rig players wait often for hours to collect a small amount of oil that regularly spawns. It is an alternative to sweating. I have often protected the queue.

At the rig on Ark the oil may take ages to spawn and randomly pops up anywhere. I am quite happy for players new and experienced to take their chance to obtain something that may or may not appear. There is no queue and in this environment I am quite happy to shoot other players in order to collect the oil, even though shooting them could cost more in ammo then the oil collected, it's not really the point, the point is the pvp challenge. I am not a great pvp'r, my reflexes are not quick enough, so if I don't get you with the first shot, you will likely get away and probably shoot me back and I am unlikely to escape. I chose to be their though and this is where the space PVP is different. I fly all the time from one planet to another. I never carry stackables as I know if I get pirated I will lose them. Thats fine for me, I carry my value as a ped balance or items. What about the crafters, a prime example is welding wire. At least two components must be carried from one planet to another by someone, so either someone has a big MS , TP bill or they take a risk and smuggle the stackables and hop they dont get pirated. I agree it isn't fair and I also worry that if the MS log out function is ever removed then the cost of items such as welding wire will skyrocket and may even constrict the planet economies as ppl become even less open to inetrplanetarry travel. Imgaine flying on an aeroplane in RL with a 1 in 20 chance of being pirated, we would all stay at home
 
Look at the reasons people are in those locations.

If your in planetside lootable PVP , your not there by accident your there because you want to either mine resources or kill mobs that dont exist anywhere else. So you then have an extra risk attached to getting what ever resources your after. Hence the end price for these are maybe higher. In planetside PVP it is ( well was when I did it ) if your mining something that really gets the adrenaline flowing especially when your being chased by a known pker and getting away really gave a buzz.

In space you are probably only there because you want to travel to a different planet, the whole place is lootable pvp apart from the areas around the spacestations , there is no where to hide once you get a pirate on your tail.

This is the fundamental difference between the lootable on planet and in space. In space, 99% of the people are there for the sole purpose of traveling between planets. A trip that already takes too long in most people's opinions is increased every time they're shot down by a pirate. Therefore, space piracy is perceived primarily as harassment and griefing, and not as normal "PVP". (Griefing is messing with people for the sole purpose of angering and harassing them.)

Someone considering space piracy should be prepared to receive all the consequences of being labeled as antisocial griefers by the community. There are actually two classes of space pirates in EU: 1) PVPers 2) true antisocial griefers.

Class 1 tries out space piracy because it looks cool, but they stop pirating when they realize it completely ruins their reputation in the game. Sometimes they're able to repair their reputation. Class 2 doesn't care about having a bad reputation... they get their jollies from making other players angry; if there wasn't space piracy, they'd be somewhere else in the game trying to harass people. These are the ones you see pirating long-term.
 
are you *forced* to enter space? no. and you certainly arent murdered either last time i checked, either literally or virtually. its closest analogue is going into a casino... (always with the gambling round here), you take a risk whether you will lose something or not, and you only risk what you put in.

Yes you are forced.
This game is called entropia universe. not entropia stay on your own planet.
It's a non argument. ofcourse there's always a choice. not login is another choice, which really isn't a viable one.
the casino example is a bad one. because to go from one non-gambling area to another you would have to cross the casino, which is bullocks, you can go around the casino through the back alley.
Space should have a back alley. (pay 80 ped to use the interplanetary tp)
 
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haven't read the thread, voted yes.

A thought just popped my mind, Firefly, namely a universe built similarly as the one described in the series would be awesome. Food for thought.
 
Lot's of things...

Firstly, @KijkkiJikki, the fact that people are responding to this thread dictates that the discussion is not over. This is reinforced by the fact that there is no unanimity on this issue - which there would have to be if there was nothing more to say.

Secondly, @Farmer Smurf, I agree fully that MA's interpretation of PvP is inadequate. I think the thing which makes EU's PvP so personalized is the underlying fact that it's not PvP, it's BvB (Bankroll versus Bankroll) because it's corrupted by the pay-to-win game mechanic - which is the same, in my mind, as race-fixing. Period. Full stop. Drag out the diva and poke her till she sings!

Thirdly, I totally agree with @HardWrath that certain bugs imbalance space in favour of pirates. I'm simply amazed that ship summonses work outside designated spaceport and hangar areas and one of the things which really threw me when I first started was all the broken spaceports and hangars where there are no dynamic arrivals/departures signage, no space transport timetable, and no functional booking terminals etc. It's not a big ask. As official DLC for any other game, full mothership access, spaceport and all attached functionality wouldn't amount to more than US$20. Anyone who's ever played a simulation, first person shooter or role playing game understands that it's all about immersion - and if an operator wants more people to stick around when they first try the game out, then the operator needs to be prepared to invest, seriously, in the game's ongoing development and not just initially.

Having said this, I tend to think that the speed-hacking vulnerability causes far greater imbalance in favour of pirates in a game which already panders to pirating by bottle-necking all outgoing space traffic through a very small zone around the planet's space station. It is bad enough that players cannot choose their entry point into space around the planet but is it really necessary to set things up so that we all have to put up with pirates being allowed to magically automatically outrun anyone and everyone they chase? This is even the case when the aircraft is a quad, has a head start well outside gunnery range, is travelling at full documented speed in a straight line away from the pursuer and, according to its Item Information has the same speed as the aircraft used by the pursuer (nearly always another quad). No wonder so few people even bother to try space out when all we hear is, "Don't try to outrun pirates because they'll always catch you". Sheogorath give us sanity!

Code monkeys; listen up! When you run a real time simulation off a server which synchronizes input from multiple clients, you do not, ever, under any circumstances, read peripheral input directly from client peripherals because connection interruptions (which you have no control over) will guarantee that direct input is all too often out of sync with the server or simply never delivered. Instead, to keep client peripheral input synchronized with the server you must do the following things:

  1. Buffer all peripheral input (i.e. mouse, keyboard, gamepad, joystick, dPad, touchpad, VR-kit, trackball, brail-reader, touchscreen, guncontroller, etc.) on the client - instead of sending it directly to the server.
  2. Have the server read the client buffer and act on all position-related input stored there in order with the objective of positioning the avatar at the point in space corresponding to where the peripheral input would place that avatar now().
  3. Whenever the client peripheral buffer cannot be read by the server, safe the avatar, at the server end, using an "unreachable" modification of the avatar tag and not a shoot me while I'm DC'd bubble which tends to reveal the position of avatars which may have gone to great lengths to conceal themselves (e.g. in PvP).
  4. When a disconnected buffer can finally be read (i.e. after reconnection), acquire input and extrapolate position and orientation from the client peripheral buffer content (recorded during the period of disconnection) to the current time before applying.
  5. Once the buffer has been read without interruption in real time for about five seconds, unsafe the avatar and remove the "unreachable" modification to the avatar's tag.
Also, when an avatar is safed, it is because the person controlling the avatar no longer has enough information to make informed choices, so weapon discharges, mining probe releases, crafting machine clicks etc. which may appear during the period in which an avatar is safed should be ignored and neither charged nor executed. Anyways, the game-end of this whole connection issue is dead easy to fix if you are one of the people who maintain the source for the project - and I suspect that solving the larger connection issue would make the speed-hacking issue go away if the same procedure is applied to vehicle control (which also means making sure that all item specifications are stored on the server and not on the client).

My personal opinion concerning the systemic equality of both planetary and space versions of lootable "PvP" tends to fall in line with something @SoReal had to say. I don't buy the "bet" theory. I think that both the re-entry tax (space) the anti-toxic shot (toxic zone) are poorly contextualized (i.e. unsubtle) special area access fees which are charged either in advance or in arrears to compensate, in theory, with the reduced turnover of lootable zones as a consequence of the conditions. This is not the only reason I find it difficult to see how space PvP is, systemically, different from planetside PvP. Both are strictly pay-to-win (which is why I avoid treating EU PvP as PvP - a wallet is not a person, after all), and both revolve around access to assets which is only mandatory if the player is engaging in specific economic strategies. Few people hunt or mine in lootable PvP and the sheer number of new players bottled up on Calypso proves that most players choose to stay out of space too - which would only be possible if space was not necessarily mandatory. But whether we are talking about exploring interesting new terrain, freebies (crude oil, beer, nawa drops, etc.), or unique commodity mining/hunting, it's about selectively mandatory access. If you wish to explore another planet or mine or hunt an exotic resource there, you must cross space to do it. If you want something special from planetside PvP you must cross planetside PvP to get it and to bring it out. Just because it is mandatory for one player's role doesn't make it mandatory for everyone-else and, likewise, just because something is optional for one player's role, does not make it optional for all other roles. After all, this is a variation of the role-playing game and the mandates of role vary from one role to another.
 
... no dynamic arrivals/departures signage, no space transport timetable, and no functional booking terminals etc. It's not a big ask. As official DLC for any other game, full mothership access, spaceport and all attached functionality wouldn't amount to more than US$20. Anyone who's ever played a simulation, first person shooter or role playing game understands that it's all about immersion - and if an operator wants more people to stick around when they first try the game out, then the operator needs to be prepared to invest, seriously, in the game's ongoing development and not just initially.
/Signed!

  1. Buffer all peripheral input (i.e. mouse, keyboard, gamepad, joystick, dPad, touchpad, VR-kit, trackball, brail-reader, touchscreen, guncontroller, etc.) on the client - instead of sending it directly to the server.
  2. Have the server read the client buffer and act on all position-related input stored there in order with the objective of positioning the avatar at the point in space corresponding to where the peripheral input would place that avatar now().
  3. Whenever the client peripheral buffer cannot be read by the server, safe the avatar, at the server end, using an "unreachable" modification of the avatar tag and not a shoot me while I'm DC'd bubble which tends to reveal the position of avatars which may have gone to great lengths to conceal themselves (e.g. in PvP).
  4. When a disconnected buffer can finally be read (i.e. after reconnection), acquire input and extrapolate position and orientation from the client peripheral buffer content (recorded during the period of disconnection) to the current time before applying.
  5. Once the buffer has been read without interruption in real time for about five seconds, unsafe the avatar and remove the "unreachable" modification to the avatar's tag.
Indeed, that's how i imagine a decent solution against all kind of speed hacks as well.

(The "Unreachable" condition, however, might be a slippery road. As soon as u make it a permanent feature that can "switch off" PvP anywhere anytime (as opposed to only immediately after arriving into the area) there will be new hacks based on interrupting the connection with the server just enough to get into this "Unreachable" condition. Think: invulnerable pirates and 100% safe smuggling services...
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.)
 
To start with ethics and ingame ethics are two pair of shoes.

To the question :

Lootable PVP zones planetside are zones you can avoid because they yield nothing special that can't be obtained by other means. By entering such zones you agree with the ruleset of lootable pvp and take the risk on purpose, you even need a toxic shoot to prevent you from entering such a zone by accident. Getting killed in such a zone is "ingame ethically" acceptable, even if someone with über stuff drop in front of you and one shoot you.

If you wish to travel between planets you must enter space, there is no other way. There are safer ways to travel and unsave ways but its a fact that its time consuming to travel safe and your real life shedule may not allow to wait 2 more hours for the next warp flight. Safe travel is a limited ressource and people take the risk of getting shoot in order to safe time and maybe some peds. In my opinion its not different than knowing and taking the risk to enter a planetside lootable pvp area. While in planetside pvp maybe your mining loot , hunting loot or ammo spend in pvp and the toxic shoot monney are on stake, in space its your TIME (mostly) that is on the stake. If you unlucky and get shoot by a Pirate you lose time and have to start all over traveling to the planet you desire. The time you lose have no value for the Pirate that killed you, yet he did it anyways because he can and thats why people are so agitated.




If you have bad luck you are nailed down on a location by pirates you must choose a different time to try again. If you can't roam free and go where you please you find yourself in conflict with the abudance of freedom you have within EU. You have the freedom to be and do whatever you want in this game but one mere Pirate can ruin your plans for a relaxed hunting session on ark because hes always intercepting and killing you in space
Dont hate the pirate, he does nothing wrong, hate the concept mindark enforce for space travel.
 
/Signed!

Indeed, that's how i imagine a decent solution against all kind of speed hacks as well.

(The "Unreachable" condition, however, might be a slippery road. As soon as u make it a permanent feature that can "switch off" PvP anywhere anytime (as opposed to only immediately after arriving into the area) there will be new hacks based on interrupting the connection with the server just enough to get into this "Unreachable" condition. Think: invulnerable pirates and 100% safe smuggling services...
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.)

I think that this would ultimately level the playing field. It would make smuggling services as obsolete as they are now. After all, smuggling is currently impossible except by roll of the dice (and that is gambling not smuggling) and, if everyone was to be able to become invulnerable, smuggling would still be obsolete because everyone could carry their own cargo. This would not prevent people who wanted to tangle with pirates from doing so and both would be on the same footing. If one went invulnerable, so too would the other - and let us not forget that while in the unreachable condition, the player would, hopefully, be assumed to be not compis - meaning that the player should not be allowed to expend munitions. The benefit, to someone looking for an edge in a fight, would be dubious at best.

Basically, this would act as buggy variation as a personal off-switch for PvP and I think that, until PvP can be adequately balanced, it would be fairer on the players if they could just switch off PvP with a set of shields which could be bought from a crafter under a very common blueprint with a low manufacturing cost (and maybe double fuel consumption while the shields are running). When space is sufficiently balanced for PvP, then introduce Light Kismet Mk II which is pulse-modulated to bypass the shields (in classic Star Trek rationale - in other words don't blame me for this theory :ahh:). The idea is to move away from uncontextualised development and ease players into changes which can occur as they would be expected to occur in a naturally evolving environment. Old gear should be made obsolete by little changes and improvements in new gear. What was uber or eco seven years ago, should be a relic in the Entropia Universe of today. Rather than nerfing new items - old items should get nerfed - and rather than nerfing old items by changing their stats, the new items should simply come out with newer and better stats because that's how it works and, even in fantasy, this progressive evolution of technology is what is expected. Meanwhile the mobs get tougher because they evolve too - and the ones that don't, well, now it might make sense when we cannot find certain mobs any more. This way, the overall balance is maintained without losing touch with basic realities such as momentum, conservation of energy, and progress.

I strongly opine, however, that all players should get an off-switch for lootable PvP until such time as the gameplay in lootable PvP is properly and correctly balanced. If the devs can't make that happen in a timely manner (e.g. within seven days), then just flip the parameter to make warp drive available to all aircraft and ships until the problem is fixed. If that's too hard to do in seven days (or just too controversial to be palatable), then just flip the parameter to make lootable PvP non-lootable until a better way to level the playing field comes around. When it is established that people are gaining an unfair advantage, it is important that the playing field is leveled immediately by any effective means necessary to do so (i.e. immediately) -especially if the game is supposed to have an RCE- even if that means taking the game offline altogether. Combining RCE and lootable-PvP is already playing with fire. Doing so with unbalanced game mechanics is like playing with fire in the middle of a petrochemical refinery.
 
In case anyone didn't know - like me :)

haven't read the thread, voted yes.

A thought just popped my mind, Firefly, namely a universe built similarly as the one described in the series would be awesome. Food for thought.

In case anyone doesn't know, Firefly is this show. It looks intriguing. Then, there's this MMORPG trailer for something inspired by Firefly so, you never can tell how things will work out in the 'verse.

More competition for Entropia Universe is well on the way and, in case anyone didn't notice, the whole melodrama of Firefly getting shut down and being brought out against the rules seems to be suspiciously in line with the show's themes.
 
More competition for Entropia Universe is well on the way and, in case anyone didn't notice, the whole melodrama of Firefly getting shut down and being brought out against the rules seems to be suspiciously in line with the show's themes.

So since you say its competition, is it a RCE?
 
The trailer looks like crap tbh. Doesn't look like there's anything there. Vaporware. It's from 2012 as well. I guess the firefly fan can only keep hoping it isn't.
 
From an ethical or moral perspective, do you think that reaving (i.e. looting players in planet-side PvP) is the same as pirating (looting players in space PvP)? Please feel free to post the rationale for your point of view.

Why should claiming the winnings of a victory after consensual PvP be different between a fight on a planet and in space?

:scratch:

Besides, there is no "pirating" or "reaving" because the situation is completely symmetrical. All the players that sit down to play a game of poker are the same. The winner doesn't become a pirate all of a sudden. (Although a parrot popping out of his/her shoulder would be comical.)
 
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