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Question: Trapping Exploit, How long does it take to fix?

Fort

Fort

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Fort Tress
Why does MA not fix exploits in a timely manner or remove the mob if they can't fix it?
It's been almost 7 months since I reported a trapping exploit to support. Do they just not care?
If I recall Marcimex exploit got fixed rather quickly.


November 28th 2013, I reported a trapping exploit.

Support quote's since then

"We'll take proper action"
"We'll make sure to forward this to our investigation team for their acknowledgement. "

2+ months later, still trappable mob

"Thank you for contacting us. Our team has acknowledge this issue, please rest assured they are looking in to this issue"

"Our team is currently fixing this issue and we hope a fix is released in soon"

5+ months since bug reported.

"Thank you for contacting us. Please rest assured that we will further investigate this issue"

6 months...yup people still trapping

"Please rest assured our team is looking into this"

6 days short of 7 months since report.

"We apologies for the little information we can give and thank you for your patience with this issue."

We are not talking fuga here. It's a big mob that deals a lot of damage and armor decay.
 
Fort said:
Why does MA not fix exploits in a timely manner or remove the mob if they can't fix it?
It's been almost 7 months since I reported a trapping exploit to support. Do they just not care?
If I recall Marcimex exploit got fixed rather quickly.


November 28th 2013, I reported a trapping exploit.

Support quote's since then

"We'll take proper action"
"We'll make sure to forward this to our investigation team for their acknowledgement. "

2+ months later, still trappable mob

"Thank you for contacting us. Our team has acknowledge this issue, please rest assured they are looking in to this issue"

"Our team is currently fixing this issue and we hope a fix is released in soon"

5+ months since bug reported.

"Thank you for contacting us. Please rest assured that we will further investigate this issue"

6 months...yup people still trapping

"Please rest assured our team is looking into this"

6 days short of 7 months since report.

"We apologies for the little information we can give and thank you for your patience with this issue."

We are not talking fuga here. It's a big mob that deals a lot of damage and armor decay.
Click to expand...

please share your knowlage how it could be fixed.
i rly think that they really want to make us happy , but i dont get it how they could fix trapping instead of already made "unreachable"
 
Fort said:
If I recall Marcimex exploit got fixed rather quickly.
Click to expand...

No, it took them several months. It was finally fixed after a number of high level players publically said they were selling out as a result of MA's inaction. Presumably there were accompanying support cases.

Perhaps what we need is similar co-ordinated action now. I have sent support cases about it myself.

They don't just need to fix it, they also need to take meaningful action against people who use these exploits. There is one avatar in particular who has been trapping Vanguards (and got several high loots out of it) who has a history of trapping at every possible opportunity (Marcimex, Halloween Mayhem, Feffox Mayhem etc), as well as VTOL hunting, who should have been permanently banned long ago, yet is somehow allowed to continue. And she isn't the only one, just the most blatant one.

I would suggest everyone who cares about this - which should be everyone, and if you don't care then you understand nothing about EU - sends support cases and keeps sending them until a) it's fixed and b) people get banned.
 
Oleg said:
Nunderstand nothing about EU - sends support cases and keeps sending them until a) it's fixed and b) people get banned.
Click to expand...

a) i agree 100% with you that it need to be fixed but how you offer to fix vtol exploiting in area like proteron ?

b) why ban people if we have already low active player database.... Ban should be last action to make.
 
ktpsmf said:
please share your knowlage how it could be fixed.
i rly think that they really want to make us happy , but i dont get it how they could fix trapping instead of already made "unreachable"
Click to expand...

The mob has no trapping logic on. It never goes unreachable, it can't hit ava but ava can damage it.

Oleg said:
No, it took them several months. It was finally fixed after a number of high level players publically said they were selling out as a result of MA's inaction. Presumably there were accompanying support cases.

Perhaps what we need is similar co-ordinated action now. I have sent support cases about it myself.

They don't just need to fix it, they also need to take meaningful action against people who use these exploits. There is one avatar in particular who has been trapping Vanguards (and got several high loots out of it) who has a history of trapping at every possible opportunity (Marcimex, Halloween Mayhem, Feffox Mayhem etc), as well as VTOL hunting, who should have been permanently banned long ago, yet is somehow allowed to continue. And she isn't the only one, just the most blatant one.

I would suggest everyone who cares about this - which should be everyone, and if you don't care then you understand nothing about EU - sends support cases and keeps sending them until a) it's fixed and b) people get banned.
Click to expand...


One trapper I reported took a massive loot by trapping same mob months later.

When I sent support to re-reprot him and complained about this I got this response.

"Thank you for contacting us. Our team has acknowledge this issue, please rest assured they are looking in to this issue.

Occasional high loots are a part of Entropia Universe, but we can assure you that these loots do not affect the individual participant’s looting possibilities."

Really? So a very small spawn that I shoot into and a exploiter takes an 5 digit, How does that not affect me? I had no chance at that loot to start with?
 
ktpsmf said:
a

b) why ban people if we have already low active player database.... Ban should be last action to make.
Click to expand...

Because not punishing them drives players to quit that are frustrated by MA's inaction. So that just leaves a cheater taking ZERO armor and fap decay by cheating. = ma gets less $
 
So what is fix for it ? is there any suggestion how it could be fixed ?

not talking about (not vechile zone without bushes)
game cannot think, it needs rules . so i ask, do anyone know how it is possible to get fixed?

because personally me , think there is not possible to fix it.
 
ktpsmf said:
So what is fix for it ? is there any suggestion how it could be fixed ?

not talking about (not vechile zone without bushes)
game cannot think, it needs rules . so i ask, do anyone know how it is possible to get fixed?

because personally me , think there is not possible to fix it.
Click to expand...

It's not a vtol exploit

This mob never goes unreachable. Easy fix I thought, turn on trapping logic for this mob.
 
Fort said:
It's not a vtol exploit

This mob never goes unreachable. Easy fix I thought, turn on trapping logic for this mob.
Click to expand...

please forgive me, i did not notices where you wrote what mob is that ?

i thought there is already no places where mob does not goes unreachable


for example all people was crying about trapping in haloween mayhem, ma turned on unreachable to all instances, now i was in beacon adn one mob drop down from bridge and made unreachable, i could not continue.

ofc i agree that trappign is unfair, jsut need to find way to fix it.


like i reported this one of bugs, but did not know how to fix it :

 
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ktpsmf said:
please forgive me, i did not notices where you wrote what mob is that ?

i thought there is already no places where mob does not goes unreachable
Click to expand...


Correct, I did not say what mob I was talking about. Enough people trapping them already, I'd rather limit that if possible:)
 
Oleg said:
There is one avatar in particular who has been trapping Vanguards (and got several high loots out of it) who has a history of trapping at every possible opportunity (Marcimex, Halloween Mayhem, Feffox Mayhem etc), as well as VTOL hunting, who should have been permanently banned long ago, yet is somehow allowed to continue. And she isn't the only one, just the most blatant one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for not naming me. I really don't know, who you are but I want to explain something here. When I found Proterons first time, I used my quad to kill one, two, three.. how many ever (of course less than 10) before rumors begun and people complained about this.

Than a nice guy showed me, how to hunt em without getting damaged and without rumors from other players. So I changed my hunting to this method.

Shortly I found that Vanguard at the Trooper Spawn and this ones in Hadesheim. While it was funny for me for some kills, to stand on a box and hunt em, I got many complains from other players about it.

So I have modified another time my hunting tactics there. People who was there the last weeks should already have seen this (oh yes, and already tried to complain about this for sure legal tactic too).

I am hiding on one side of a box or whatever and when the Vanguard can focus me, I run to the other side. This way it is possible to avoid most of the attack. Sure, some hits are coming when it is laggy. Also the bubbles are doing a bit of damage every now and than.

This way, I have for sure much less Armour decay than a "stand and shoot" guy - also much more work on my keyboard & mouse.
 
DianaLOVEBrand said:
Shortly I found that Vanguard at the Trooper Spawn and this ones in Hadesheim. While it was funny for me for some kills, to stand on a box and hunt em, I got many complains from other players about it.

So I have modified another time my hunting tactics there. People who was there the last weeks should already have seen this (oh yes, and already tried to complain about this for sure legal tactic too).

I am hiding on one side of a box or whatever and when the Vanguard can focus me, I run to the other side. This way it is possible to avoid most of the attack. Sure, some hits are coming when it is laggy. Also the bubbles are doing a bit of damage every now and than.

This way, I have for sure much less Armour decay than a "stand and shoot" guy - also much more work on my keyboard & mouse.
Click to expand...

You got many complaints because the mob never hit you.

So now you get the mob to attack you then hide on other side of box where it can't ever hit you again?? :scratch2:
 
Fort said:
So you get the mob to attack you then hide on other side of box where it can't ever hit you again?? :scratch2:
Click to expand...

No. They are walking (slowly like they are) to one side. As fast as they can focus, I'm going on the other side for attacking and as fast they can focus me, back to first side.. and so on.
 
DianaLOVEBrand said:
Thanks for not naming me. I really don't know, who you are but I want to explain something here. When I found Proterons first time, I used my quad to kill one, two, three.. how many ever (of course less than 10) before rumors begun and people complained about this.
Click to expand...

REALLY?!! this is plain BS you are bragging to me about doing it and telling me to make videos and write support case and you really dont care.
 
I made 2 support cases already as well and started a thread awhile back. It got some attention, but nothing fixed yet. I just think we keep bringing it up until it changes - I dunno what else.
Seems like an easy fix too, but hey.

And I can't believe that guy just sat there and said how he "traps" (or avoids all hits) from a mob and is like "it's cool - it's just a tactic" Crazy - but still my response to that is - we tell MA and it doesn't get fixed or no one banned - so I can't blame people too much in a way.
 
"as is" is as is... exploits and all.
THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE IS PROVIDED TO YOU "AS IS". THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE IS NOT WARRANTED BY MINDARK TO BE UNINTERUPTED , COMPLETE, ACCURATE OR ERROR OR BUG FREE. MINDARK MAKES NO OTHER WARRANTY, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, WITH RESPECT TO THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE. ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, ARE HEREBY DISCLAIMED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
Click to expand...

As far as the moving around a box hunting tactic goes... never did that or saw it in game, but it makes sense since some mobs just go in a straight line til they run in to something.... could be a wall, a tree, or the avatar it's hunting... bad ai programming. Way back in the day before hit box sizes changed you could strafe around some mobs like mutants a bit as a tactic of sorts - sort of dance around the mob hitting it as it turned before it turned fully to you, so you got hit less or with lower damage amounts... very fun stuff to do with melee equipment. Huge hit boxes changed that a bit though.
 
Fort said:
If I recall Marcimex exploit got fixed rather quickly.
Click to expand...

At the same time they fixed it, what happened in (some) instances with lots of mobs was that half of them was trapped Before you could see them... and apparently MA can't or do not want to have different trapping option to different kind of areas.

So because some people couldn't keep their fingers away some instances got awkward to do.

And, (to the opporsite), I'm talking say 10-50 hp mobs that swarm in narrow corridors.

And on Arkadia Oratan events, if more than one boss oratan is spawned at the same time, they almost guaranteed get stuck (possibly blocking eachother).

If Zombie Kong gets stuck on Rocktropia (it's rare but it happens) then we just have to stand by, waitig the HP to get back up as it has fairly high regen.

Oh, and did I say that the stuck mob syndrom was implemented because some people was hunting mobs that was *obviously* glitched? (flashing up and down a hill).
 
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Maybe it's not a simple fix and that's why it's not done yet.

I personally believe they should at least enable PVP in those problematic areas/ mob spawns.

It's not like it solve the problem, but at least you can take care of it when you our out there hunting.
 
PW3CKA said:
Maybe it's not a simple fix and that's why it's not done yet.

I personally believe they should at least enable PVP in those problematic areas/ mob spawns.

It's not like it solve the problem, but at least you can take care of it when you our out there hunting.
Click to expand...

totally agree that is rly not so simple fix,

i talked with kim about how to make that people cannot hide in vechile corpse. All people was offering to make vechile like pitbull that cannot run trough, make a box that needed to go aroud it.
all thought it is good idea, but kim sayd it will make more trouble because people can start put vechiles on outpotsts not letting people to get out of it and ect.

so as allways one fix can make more problems. Ofc if we talk about cyrene mob that i saw video, it should easy to remove that plants where are they trapping or make them go trough.


in my test when i was hunting proterong going backwards with speed bottle, theyt could not reach me. But i noticed, that proteron gave me low return if i do not let him hit me once.

maby that is secret weapon from mindark , giving low return if you do not hit by target mob.
 
ktpsmf said:
in my test when i was hunting proterong going backwards with speed bottle, theyt could not reach me. But i noticed, that proteron gave me low return if i do not let him hit me once.

maby that is secret weapon from mindark , giving low return if you do not hit by target mob.
Click to expand...

We can all agree i think that when you shoot a mob, the dmg you inflict on it gets converted into some kind of variable used in calculating the loot, perhaps the same goes for dmg inflicted by the mob on the avatar shooting, and weither it is absorbed by armor or avatar hp makes no difference?
 
ktpsmf said:
totally agree that is rly not so simple fix,
Click to expand...

While it might be not easy to change AI or other factors to not break game in other places, there is really easy fix that MA refuses to use!

It is really simple as that:
1. Clearly state in CL, Dev Notes and other places that trapping is illegal and will be punishable. Make it explicit so people don't say "oh I thought it was just smart tactics".
2. As a Game Master (invisible mode so exploiters think they are alone) inspect usual spots occasionally.
3. Inspect logs of people who was reported. I'm sure it's easy to tell if somebody exploits or not (vehicle entered in between damage inflicted, no or unusually little times damage taken on big mobs).
4. Punish those caught and reported (verified cases). First time with couple days temp ban and yellow card. Next time with red card and permanent ban!

It was like that in past, no? Like guy who got ATH from trapped spider?

I bet it would took only few banned exploiters to stop that problem completely.

As of now MA's message is that it is allowed so maybe we should use this tactics as well instead being stupid and generate decay?
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
While it might be not easy to change AI or other factors to not break game in other places, there is really easy fix that MA refuses to use!

It is really simple as that:
1. Clearly state in CL, Dev Notes and other places that trapping is illegal and will be punishable. Make it explicit so people don't say "oh I thought it was just smart tactics".
2. As a Game Master (invisible mode so exploiters think they are alone) inspect usual spots occasionally.
3. Inspect logs of people who was reported. I'm sure it's easy to tell if somebody exploits or not (vehicle entered in between damage inflicted, no or unusually little times damage taken on big mobs).
4. Punish those caught and reported (verified cases). First time with couple days temp ban and yellow card. Next time with red card and permanent ban!

It was like that in past, no? Like guy who got ATH from trapped spider?

I bet it would took only few banned exploiters to stop that problem completely.

As of now MA's message is that it is allowed so maybe we should use this tactics as well instead being stupid and generate decay?
Click to expand...

so to avoid banning and + more work spectating whole server traping systems it would nto be easyer to make such rule :

1. if target of mob enter vechile -= mob hp become 100%
2. if mob become unreachable it teleports to nearby range with same unrachable.
 
ktpsmf said:
so to avoid banning and + more work spectating whole server traping systems it would nto be easyer to make such rule :
Click to expand...

I don't see why banning few bad apples would be bad for a game.
I bet 'lost' decay from banning them would be covered by those who don't play because they are angry at current lack of action toward exploiters.

Extra work would be required but most likely only for some period of time, until few exploiters would be banned to set an example (with proper announcing those bans), I bet later people would think twice before trying to trap mob, meaning less work.

1. if target of mob enter vechile -= mob hp become 100%
2. if mob become unreachable it teleports to nearby range with same unrachable.
Click to expand...

Not that good ideas.

1. Would pretty much kill Healer profession.
Hunter get crited near end of mob's hp and dies, mob attack healer that enters VTOL (he is not hunting mob so he is legally allowed, right?), mob becomes full hp and hunter who just TPed back gets mad.

2. This would create loads of complains also if suddenly mob teleported on another hunter.
On top of that mob gets unreachable not only because exploit but sometimes terrain. I had many situation that hunting with long range my mob got stuck on some bush or rock it was on it's way. I had to run toward it and many times it got stuck before i could reach it.
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
I don't see why banning few bad apples would be bad for a game.
.
Click to expand...


i fully understand you but in my opinion :

banning 1 player he will not create other to spend same peds for activity - hunting .
that will reduce player database not with 1 player.

but same tactics when 1 pleyer star play and his friends go play too, can be after 1 banned people, all his friends and family can loose play interest in game too.

Like my friend stopped to play and his friends and wife with son sold out too.
 
ktpsmf said:
1. if target of mob enter vechile -= mob hp become 100%
Click to expand...

Then people whould go and fuck with ppl on their hunt by shooting cheap tag shots on a big mob someone is working on and when mob aggro get in vtol.
 
ermik said:
Then people whould go and fuck with ppl on their hunt by shooting cheap tag shots on a big mob someone is working on and when mob aggro get in vtol.
Click to expand...

so as i sayd there is not so perfect desidion, without having few "workers" waching whole universe 24h.

so it seems it is not so simple
 
ktpsmf said:
i fully understand you but in my opinion :

banning 1 player he will not create other to spend same peds for activity - hunting .
that will reduce player database not with 1 player.

but same tactics when 1 pleyer star play and his friends go play too, can be after 1 banned people, all his friends and family can loose play interest in game too.

Like my friend stopped to play and his friends and wife with son sold out too.
Click to expand...

Don't get it.
It's like saying that shop lifter should not be persecuted because he bought few things while stolen only few others.
And prosecuting him/her would risk shop of losing his friends and family as customers?

ktpsmf said:
so as i sayd there is not so perfect desidion, without having few "workers" waching whole universe 24h.

so it seems it is not so simple
Click to expand...

It is a big exaggeration. They would need to do some work but very far from watching for exploiters 24/7.

1. Few people files report about exploiter X trapping mob Y.
2. Avatar X gets a red flag and is checked as soon as possible after report and occasionally in future.
3. MA have logs and easy script can reveal loads of information about activities of X.
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
Don't get it.
It's like saying that shop lifter should not be persecuted because he bought few things while stolen only few others.
And prosecuting him/her would risk shop of losing his friends and family as customers?



It is a big exaggeration. They would need to do some work but very far from watching for exploiters 24/7.

1. Few people files report about exploiter X trapping mob Y.
2. Avatar X gets a red flag and is checked as soon as possible after report and occasionally in future.
3. MA have logs and easy script can reveal loads of information about activities of X.
Click to expand...

so it will make only people avoid each other going to various places where not alot activity or trap in instances when it was like heloween mayhem and the core:)


and in business module it iw like : More human recources , less proffit .

if i could realize the fact of hunting, it should be same as peple mobtrain in rig, than all others go up and trap mobs, they even did not wanted to hunt it.


so the most biggest problems that need Human recoursces to solve it :

1. Mobtrain
2. Trapping
3. killsteal


all these 3 problems cannot be solved without human recources.

as there was a thread how much Human recources cost for Mindark.

Mindark official answer was 40usd or 400 ped per hour. need to pay programmer to work for mindark for checking logs or doing any action.

for example you can order Mindark to check how many peds you spend during 1 month.
They will charge you 400 ped a hour and do that job.
 
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I dont have nothing against temp ban or even ban but that do not solve problem or prevent players to try in future.
My option is to remove vehicles but as this option is not acceptable by many let see another one..

We have vtols, quads and other vehicles and all of them are not enabled to shoot and deal damage in non pvp zone.
And that is just one more reason to create small landing platforms/zones with turrets - like small outposts where is possible to land and to forbid/disable landing to sourounding hunting zones and voila - no more cheap non decaying quad/vtol shield/deagro machine...
 
Dan59 said:
I dont have nothing against temp ban or even ban but that do not solve problem or prevent players to try in future.
My option is to remove vehicles but as this option is not acceptable by many let see another one..

We have vtols, quads and other vehicles and all of them are not enabled to shoot and deal damage in non pvp zone.
And that is just one more reason to create small landing platforms/zones with turrets - like small outposts where is possible to land and to forbid/disable landing to sourounding hunting zones and voila - no more cheap non decaying quad/vtol shield/deagro machine...
Click to expand...


Why is everybody complicating this? The fix for vehicle hunting was there when they originally introduced them.

I never understood why they stopped having creatures to attack vehicles.. It was the only logical way of having vehicles in-game..
 
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