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Question: How works loot system?! 20%-50% back, wtf?!

You're wasting your time XII, trying to get any sensible answers here.

In fact the answer to the question you're really looking for is: Yes most skilled avatars I know experience the same returns as you. Many actually losing $1000's a week, but they don't post as scared to death to be added to black list.

I put it down to 3 main things

1) the more skilled you are the wider the loot swings covering 10's thousands of ped ammo (maybe more)
2) System only configured to cope with low skilled avatars, struggles to set you up on mobs.
3) The loot system was rewritten, is broken, and MA can't fix it, either that or they're struggling to cope with withdrawals, so someone has to pay.

Truth is you have a choice, keep pumping in a fortune to maintain your level of hunting to match your skill. Or walk away. The choice is yours.

But you won't get any sympathy or help here, that community spirit is long gone. All that's left is some massive egos' that think they're better than you. Shame on you community.

What ever you decide Good luck with your choices.

Rick
 
OP you are'nt the only one who facing something like that, but still you can change your fate by changing your "goals" for a while .... or permanent :wise:
 
XII said:
20% is posible. Yesterday i do small run on aurli for 100 ped ammo (not much ye ye of course.. I know it) total cost: 100 ped ammo, amp decay ~25, gun ~5, armor ~8, healt ~3 = 141 PED, have return 42 ped - maybe is not 20% but 30% ok... this does not exclude the fact that I was hunting with whom I brought 20%. Few times I have runs where I lose more as uses ammo - decay eat my return from this runs.

I can't made big runs because I lost inundated their irl lives. 1k ped with my "luck" (made by MA) I can lose in 2 hours in one big run.

In this month I depo 700 ped with TTed some (400PED) electro matrix from Storage and to this day i have 30 PED on the card, rest of gun and nothing more from it - this all from hunt on small mobs and Prots in team.

Special Very THX for MA.
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Have the same experience hunting on crystal palace no matter what items or armor i use im always ended on 50% to 60% tt return.. So I note to myself that place doesnt good for me :) other hunter have luck on cp but some are not.. But base on my sheet 90% - 95% tt return on overall is blah blah blah
 
me have ALL TIME (in last ~6 years) 20-50% returns from hunting
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RickEngland said:
Yes most skilled avatars I know experience the same returns as you.
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Sorry, I challenge you to prove it. Names, documented TT returns, otherwise it's just whining.

I guess I'm just not "skilled enough" to be part of the under 90% club? :mad::mad:
 
Neil Stockton said:
Sorry, I challenge you to prove it. Names, documented TT returns, otherwise it's just whining.

I guess I'm just not "skilled enough" to be part of the under 90% club? :mad::mad:
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Guess you're not skilled enough, you do only have 49K of hunting globals, hardly hardcore is it, so go crawl back under your rock on Ark. Or get your arse over to Caly and contribute to migration, or is that too expensive for you?

I have no personal gain to whine, I'm done with EU, and only interested in MA's new Compet game now. Although I have some sales to get done here, (no armour, no hunting) and here for compet info.

I'm not listing names, code of honour.

nighty night,

Rick
 
Easy to get < 50 % returns on very small runs.

Impossible to get < 50% returns on 1000 events.

An event = loot a mob, find a claim, get a success in crafting

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: i would also venture it is impossible to get <60% or possible <70% tt returns on 1000 events
 
Ace Flyster said:
An event = loot a mob, find a claim, get a success in crafting
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These don't compare very well, looting a mob is like dropping a probe (not finding a claim), or clicking on crafting machine (not getting success).
So i guess your first one should had been "getting a loot from a mob" (Since, you know, they can be no-looters... or ... nova, not sure which category that should go into in this comparison, since the other professions don't have sub 1pec loots.).

But if you do mean in the sence of "looting a mob", which would be equivalent of dropping a probe or clicking on crafting... then yes, it's very much possible to get <50% returns on 1000 clicks (FOMA mining, condition crafting).
 
Cail said:
These don't compare very well, looting a mob is like dropping a probe (not finding a claim), or clicking on crafting machine (not getting success).
So i guess your first one should had been "getting a loot from a mob" (Since, you know, they can be no-looters... or ... nova, not sure which category that should go into in this comparison, since the other professions don't have sub 1pec loots.).

But if you do mean in the sence of "looting a mob", which would be equivalent of dropping a probe or clicking on crafting... then yes, it's very much possible to get <50% returns on 1000 clicks (FOMA mining, condition crafting).
Click to expand...

Yes it should have been, "getting loot from a mob"

Rgds

Ace
 
RickEngland said:
Guess you're not skilled enough, you do only have 49K of hunting globals, hardly hardcore is it, so go crawl back under your rock on Ark. Or get your arse over to Caly and contribute to migration, or is that too expensive for you?

I have no personal gain to whine, I'm done with EU, and only interested in MA's new Compet game now. Although I have some sales to get done here, (no armour, no hunting) and here for compet info.

I'm not listing names, code of honour.

nighty night,

Rick
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Well considering neil is a miner..... glad you can only look at part of the picture.

I would wager you should read most of your bitter posts before saying the community spirit is gone and everyone has egos. From what I gather, you are part of the problem with the bitterness.

I can kill 5 mobs and get a 20% return but if I did that expecting different results like say.. doing 10 mulmun elites and expecting 90% or better.. then I would have no understanding of variance over a determine sample. When people on PCF moan and groan about bad loot streaks and get an entitlement attitude.. they have fallen trap to gamblers fallacy.. or rather law of averages which is misunderstood and not a valid theorem.. the law of large numbers however is valid and why people keep asking for information on your sample size. Most people will just ignore you if you whine and do not explain what you are really doing to achieve the poor results that you claim.

If you have a small bank roll and you are constantly having to deposit to cover.. I would extreme suggest reading what the term risk of ruin is and strategies revolving this term as it relates to various forms of chance.. like what I did for many years.. card counting.
 
I can confirm thats something is very wrong with XII avatar. No mater what he tries seems his results are artificialy capped/cutted down by unknown force. As long as i remeber we were laughing at that at begining and giving him advices what and with what gear to do. All in all he is very experienced player and know exactly what he is doing, even had his moments of fame (loooong time ago..somwhere around 2005 )

After we finished joking about his situation, we all started buoying him up and keep telling him that it is just "bad period" and things will settle out soon. but years passed ,and it was not funny anymore

Then we started counting odds if that is possible that he is most unlucky ava in the world. Something like complete oposite ava to those who can ATH twice a day etc. Hypothesis was that if there are extremly lucky avas, there must be extremly unlucky ones, and XII is one of them - maybe last ingame as most ppl with his results would quit over dozen times already

XII is very patient and very hard working ingame - his EL info seems looking like someone doing 1/10 his activity and spendings in game.

Curious thing is that XII joined team hunt, whole team hunt turned to disaster (thats why some don;t want hunt with him anymore wchich is sad ) . many experiments were performed....XII joined and abandoned team in various times ( i remeber one 6 hr session with my GF and friends during MM ) . Strangely loot waves keep pumping up when XII was leaving and flatering when he was joining.

Personally i have no idea why that is hapening. Cursed by MA seems only explanation now, but why ? Does he done something bad that he is punished so badly ? Maybe someone at MA forgot to scratch him down from some loot black list, maybe some former emplyee and XII is in "loot limbo" forgotten to bind to normality. Maybe...
 
atomicstorm said:
Correct. 45% is the base with sub base avg loot with a maxed weapon. If.he.is.getting less then be is using an unmaxed weapon, lying, or extremely short run and was extremely unlucky.
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Unmaxing gear is not case ... however he is after chiping out irc ( yes, he tried that too )
Also famous joke about about "ticking off pool at instaling Entropia to give 50 % loot to charity" arised in phase when XII situation was still funny.

I also know he contacted support about that several times but always received " all is ok , get lost, it's dynamic" answers...same like now on PCF.
 
shoti said:
I can confirm thats something is very wrong with XII avatar. No mater what he tries seems his results are artificialy capped/cutted down by unknown force. As long as i remeber we were laughing at that at begining and giving him advices what and with what gear to do. All in all he is very experienced player and know exactly what he is doing, even had his moments of fame (loooong time ago..somwhere around 2005 )

After we finished joking about his situation, we all started buoying him up and keep telling him that it is just "bad period" and things will settle out soon. but years passed ,and it was not funny anymore

Then we started counting odds if that is possible that he is most unlucky ava in the world. Something like complete oposite ava to those who can ATH twice a day etc. Hypothesis was that if there are extremly lucky avas, there must be extremly unlucky ones, and XII is one of them - maybe last ingame as most ppl with his results would quit over dozen times already

XII is very patient and very hard working ingame - his EL info seems looking like someone doing 1/10 his activity and spendings in game.

Curious thing is that XII joined team hunt, whole team hunt turned to disaster (thats why some don;t want hunt with him anymore wchich is sad ) . many experiments were performed....XII joined and abandoned team in various times ( i remeber one 6 hr session with my GF and friends during MM ) . Strangely loot waves keep pumping up when XII was leaving and flatering when he was joining.

Personally i have no idea why that is hapening. Cursed by MA seems only explanation now, but why ? Does he done something bad that he is punished so badly ? Maybe someone at MA forgot to scratch him down from some loot black list, maybe some former emplyee and XII is in "loot limbo" forgotten to bind to normality. Maybe...
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Hahaha this is exactly what happens with my fucked up avatar. Me and my friends laughs and jokes about this but after a while it turns into frustration every single time!

Must be some system that rolls a random % number when you make avatar and this will be your approx returns for this avatar for ever. Unfortunately i rolled lower than average on this :( .

I must poit out that i play really eco with 3.2 - 3.4dpp but eco with avatar like this is just bullshit. I depo every month.

I wonder when i get that golden big loot so i can buy some new awesome equip with looted cash instead of depoed cash all the time grrrrr!
 
Just because most don't have this problem, doesn't mean some don't. Sometimes all i can do is loose, getting far less than 70%, despite following all the advice, and i never make that loss back.

Considering some of the fuckups we've seen in EU, i'd say it's rather likely this is just another one that hasn't been fixed ... what is exactly the reason why he's getting such low returns? plenty of possible explanations. Does it have something to do with the pattern of crap loot/then (sometimes) compensating with a global/hof? If - for whatever reason - you don't get that compensation, you easily get his results.
 
This is just my p.o.v, with the theory I believe in in mind. ;)
I can agree that 20-50% return isn't possible... when things are right.
Ofc can return be that low, and even lower, if something is wrong.
Imo something goes wrong when you equip your gear, making the
value the dynamic coding use in your interactions to be really wrong.

I really doubt they would do that on purpose. That would, and could be
as stupid as to try to withdraw from a MA-avatar.
Hypotheticaly, if MA did something like that, punish a player by a filter
that makes values incorrect, just think of the harm that player could do if
he/she saves every little statistics of his/her playing, going public in all
possible ways, showing these numbers.
That could kill interest for EU bigtime.

I know a avatar can be bugged, since my own has been that several times.
At one occasion I got more skills than what I think was correct in LWT,
did a support case and they fixed that. They didn't reduce the skillpoints,
maybe because it wasn't an extreme increase.
At several other occasions, I lost skills. E.g I triggered MMS twice, and this
was long before skills could be traded. :D
When I team up, I usually get crappy loot. At some occasions some years ago,
in loottext I should recieve certain items but they never came. Did support
case about that too, but that had a outcome I already knew, "We can't see
anything wrong." And maybe they can't.
So yes, avatars can be bugged.
 
I would question the activity, that is the length of time per session/hunt. I am assuming as stated that many situations were experimented with, but sporadic play vs dedicated play have different results.

Many times I have seen and recorded huge losses and only when I can keep pushing end up getting a correction.

Many times I log in frustration, before I get my correction, and thus I believe lost all chances of getting the loot averaged back for that session.

I also find that hunting at least an hour each time is the minimum, under that, and the results are very limited to luck on the cycle, and usually most my corrections are after the first hour.

Time spent hunting Equates to crafting per click in a sense - would be like clicking a bp once, vs 100+clicks.
The one click will more often fail than it will succeed, the 100 clicks will get the benefit of averaging, thus lowering the risk and loss.

Same 5 minutes hunting vs 1 hour or more.

Other than that thought, sorry to hear of it, hopefully someone has the integrity to look into this at MA.
 
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Well, I have a theory that the more skilled you become, the less chance you have of getting larger multipliers. I haven't noticed any drop-off of lower multipliers yet, but I'm not that skilled either. At some point the length of the run becomes almost irrelevant - the normal non-multipliers at 45% or so return simply eat away at any multis you get, and you need to get a fast multi in to be plus at all.

If there is any kind of 'bad luck' factor on top of long wave periods and bad luck within the normal framework of luck as it happens anyway, then that avatar will really have it bad. I'm on such low mobs now to test over the long term that I may never kill even a daikiba ever again :laugh:
 
shoti said:
Curious thing is that XII joined team hunt, whole team hunt turned to disaster (thats why some don;t want hunt with him anymore wchich is sad ) . many experiments were performed....XII joined and abandoned team in various times ( i remeber one 6 hr session with my GF and friends during MM ) . Strangely loot waves keep pumping up when XII was leaving and flatering when he was joining.
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would you believe me if the same thing used to happen to me. Even at the point where I'd die, revive and within seconds the team would global.

I even joined one guy in a two man team and instantly he was wondering where all the loot had gone.

But then there have been times I'd escort a newbie between tp's and I'd get globals from random low end mobs.

I've done similar number of kills and similar maturities in similar locations to get swings from 50% to 200% returns on small runs lasting about an hour on low end mobs.

I've now gotten the theory of loot veins, i.e. killing only one or two in an area and if it's poor run for a few minutes, try again and if it improved keep in this new area for while and then move on. This is assuming that loot is not only based on mob but also in grid. It's probably complete crap but anything is worth a try if you're in a slump.
 
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