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Question: Difference in armor cost?

andy86

andy86

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Andreas Andy Gamble
Hi

I am currently using Ghost armor which I have been told (after I bought it :( ) is rather pricy on decay compared to others.

The ones that I have noticed that have similar protection as Ghost are Gremlin and Viceroy (The Viceroy set looks awsome btw but if my calculations are correct I need to pay 580 ped (not including MU) for the Viceroy set worth 400 ped which is not tradable, worth it?). There might be more sets who fit the profile but not that I have noticed.

The question is how much more expensive is the Ghost armor compared to Gremlin, Viceroy or others? Let's say that the Ghost set decays 10 ped, is the difference 1-2 ped or are we talking mere pecs?

Thanks in advance

/Andy
 
Best way to find out about armors is to use the Entropedia "Armor vs. Mobs" tool :) just add the armors you want to compare, select the mob you want to hunt and it'll show damage and decay using that armor.

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?toolid=2



Also remember that "mere pec" quickly can add up to PEDs :silly2:
 
If I remember correctly gremlin is a bit better on durability, but it's highly debatable about if that makes it really worth having or not... kinda depends on where you got it and the price you paid. In theory, crafted armor markup will continue to drop as more becomes available while looted will go up if it's looted less, but honestly I think the amount of gremlin and ghost out there is about even, so the difference between the looted vs crafted theory is out the window at the current moment... maybe in a few years that may change?

Interesting older thread on this topic at https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?98919-Ghost-Gremlin-or-Kobolt&p=1181050&viewfull=1#post1181050
 
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take a look at mah'ketta as well :) and yes you really need to think of what mobs you are going to hunt. Overall cut stab impact protection difference between gremlin and ghost is 12 in favor of ghost. Ghost has a bit more decay but it still is a good armor. An alternative for it might be Jarhead unL though that one is a bit more pricey
 
I'd still recommend you the viceroy armor over a gremlin, you can at any time get back the TT value of the armor
 
Nighthawk said:
Best way to find out about armors is to use the Entropedia "Armor vs. Mobs" tool :) just add the armors you want to compare, select the mob you want to hunt and it'll show damage and decay using that armor.

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?toolid=2
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply

I actually did look at the tool on etropedia but not sure what it means. Just for fun I looked at what the decay would be on Feffox. For Ghost the decay was 4,782 on Feffox young while the decay for Viceroy was 3,632. Does this mean that the Ghost set decays 1,15 pec more per hit? Or what does these numbers represent?
If it is per hit it means that Ghost cost 32% more in decay :eyecrazy: (different on other mobs obiously) and that would make quite a difference in the long run.
 
I would suggest using L armors. Many good L armors can be bought for less than 110% (for the whole set), which will be even better than UL armors.
 
thats why for example why nemesis unL cost ca. 1000 peds /set while other armors similar with protection are 1/2 or 1/3 that price...it 's cost u will get back in lower decay bills.

Thats also why for example shogun is not so popular even if it gives nice variety of protection - it is terribly uneconomic compared to other entry lvl armors


Ppl tend to look at eco only when it comes to guns, seems forgot to look for entropedia stats for armors. Most important next tu protection levels are durability and TT value ( as for unL armors )
 
The amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding. Durability on ul armour is 99.9% meaningless. The thing that determines decay is how much damage it absorbs. The difference betwen 2500 and 3000 durability is about 0.05%
 
Hijacker27 said:
The amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding. Durability on ul armour is 99.9% meaningless. The thing that determines decay is how much damage it absorbs. The difference betwen 2500 and 3000 durability is about 0.05%
Click to expand...

Yeah can't believe it took that many replies for someone to say that first and foremost decay is proportional to damage.

UL armor has 1% less decay for the same protection per 1k durability, which is indeed almost meaningless (although it means the difference between 2500 and 3000 is 0.5%, so the quoted post is off a decimal).

In (L) armors with durability over 10k, durability makes a lot more difference in decay. Generally if you can buy (L) armor with dura over 10k for less than 110-115%, it will be more economic for you than similar UL armor. The higher the protection of armor, the higher the % you can pay for (L) before it becomes a poor choice compared to UL.

Also be aware that the armor protection rules were tweaked recently so the armor advisors in entropedia are a bit wrong in some circumstances.

No one has mentioned plates, either. You can often get less decay for same protection by putting plates on armor because the decay/dmg absorbed increases as damage increases, but if you split between plates and armor you're lower on that curve. UNLESS you are overprotected in which case it can cost you more.

Anyway obviously there's a lot to this and you should probably just go read witte's article on how armor works on entropedia, bearing in mind that it is a little different now.

ETA: Oh PS personally i'd never acquire the viceroy because the very existence of it undermines the concept of the game and imo it should be boycotted.
 
I don't want to start the debate around UNL vs L armor. I am UNL user, but yes, some L armors are more effective then their UNL counterparts, Tiger for it's MU is a good example.

But for the OP question, I would never get a non-tradable armor for 500 peds.

Gremlin is totally awesome armor (the only armor I kept when I sold out things before a break I had to take).
It's basically identical with Viceroy on most mobs, usually gives tiny bit less protection but has a lot better ECO. (Basically you won't feel the difference in the FAP bill, but you will notice the difference in Armor repair bill)

And also the best thing, you can freaking sell it :D

But is it better then ghost? In some cases yes. It is more eco on some smaller mobs like Atrox and it definitely kicks ass on Crystal Palace where it is a must. But when you go bigger imp/cut/stab mobs, ghosts is just better :)

So it depends on what you want, if you want to be more eco and higher variety of things you can hunt go gremlin, if you want to get better armor then ghost, buy either Phantom (which is totally awesome, but decays a lot) or build some L set from Tiger/Jag parts.

EDIT: There was this golden rule, if you cannot hunt something in Phantom you should not hunt it :D

Pecka
 
Doer said:
Anyway obviously there's a lot to this and you should probably just go read witte's article on how armor works on entropedia, bearing in mind that it is a little different now.
Click to expand...

What armor advisor tells you can be significantly different from what you actually see. Are there any plans to update the tool to match the current way armor works?
 
andy86 said:
I am currently using Ghost armor which I have been told (after I bought it :( ) is rather pricy on decay compared to others.

The ones that I have noticed that have similar protection as Ghost are Gremlin and Viceroy (The Viceroy set looks awsome btw but if my calculations are correct I need to pay 580 ped (not including MU) for the Viceroy set worth 400 ped which is not tradable, worth it?). There might be more sets who fit the profile but not that I have noticed.
Click to expand...

Gremlin does not have "similar" protection to Ghost. How much decay you get per hit depends on how much damage is absorbed per hit, and it scales as dmg^1.75. So if you go with both ghost and gremlin against a impact + cut mob that does full damage, then the decay on ghost vs gremlin will be 34^1.75 vs 24^1.75 which is 478 vs 260 (a difference of 180%). Of course, you will also be protected for 10 hp more of damage on every hit as well.

Whenever damage absorbed by armor doubles, the decay increases 3.3 times :wise:
 
andy86 said:
Thanks for your reply

I actually did look at the tool on etropedia but not sure what it means. Just for fun I looked at what the decay would be on Feffox. For Ghost the decay was 4,782 on Feffox young while the decay for Viceroy was 3,632. Does this mean that the Ghost set decays 1,15 pec more per hit? Or what does these numbers represent?
If it is per hit it means that Ghost cost 32% more in decay :eyecrazy: (different on other mobs obiously) and that would make quite a difference in the long run.
Click to expand...

Yes, it means it decays 1.15 pec more per hit. However, you also get protected for 8 hp more per hit on every hit. And it does so with eco of 9.77 / pec, so unless you have a UL SIB fap (or adjusted, or better) it will be cheaper to use Ghost over Viceroy ... unless you are going to accept lower eco for getting more paramedic skills.

Armor protection in not FREE. Extra armor protection is even LESS FREE!

And this does not mean that Ghost is a bad armor in some way, or one with inherently high decay. Bear that has similar protection decays similar amounts.

Now, for next lesson, lets talk about plates...
 
Neil Stockton said:
What armor advisor tells you can be significantly different from what you actually see. Are there any plans to update the tool to match the current way armor works?
Click to expand...

I think it was one of the things that was requested in the thread on that subject. You'd have to ask the new maintainer as it's a one-man show.
 
Buy bear/boar/tiger/jag (L) parts and you're good to go. No/low mark up, easily available, and great protection.
 
Hypnotyk said:
Buy bear/boar/tiger/jag (L) parts and you're good to go. No/low mark up, easily available, and great protection.
Click to expand...

goblin + kobold + zombie +gremlin + 5b + 6a + 5d + 6b plates and u are ready for all dmg types, CSI mobs and bots.
goblin (as dummy ) is great for plates
kobold =cold ( + plates eventualy )
zombie =electric ( + plates eventualy )
gremlin =acid ( + plates eventualy )

...it is rare for mob making more than 2 dmg kinds, eventualy CSI + some special ( acid cold electric etc )


for biger peds get eco nemesis. nemi + 5b is good for most CSI mobs. nemi + 6a is good for robots.

if you have even bigger peds grab some jaguar (overall great and works well with most plates )

if u have even more peds buy lot of evader skils :) and some 5 digit cost armor.
 
it has already been mentioned but deserves to be repeated; what is more expensive than sub optimal armor for a mob is overprotection, look out for a lot of 1-damages. tjose indicate minimum dmg probably is being delt to armor.
+
I'm no expert but dont use big armor unplated if smaller armor +ul plates does the job. plates are more eco than armor. in some circumstances even l plates can be good eco-wise

nero
 
Thanks for all the advice :yay:

I will probably keep by Ghost set for now as it don't seem to be as expensive as I was told earlier.

I will take a look at L armrors though and see what I can make of it. Will probably need to get me some plates soon as well.
 
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andy86 said:
I will probably keep by Ghost set for now as it don't seem to be as expensive as I was told earlier.
Click to expand...
Hate to spoil the nice tranquility, but... :wtg:
Actually both are true. All that was said in this thread is true. And, when your evade is low armor decay is a huge factor, in a bad way. Even wearing ghost might cost u a lot.

Just skill up your evade as fast as u can and escape this cursed circle.
Then, anything will work for u. Big armors, small armors, anything.
(Well, ok, except the biggest most expensive armors, for those u need even more evade.)
 
Fifth said:
Hate to spoil the nice tranquility, but... :wtg:
Actually both are true. All that was said in this thread is true. And, when your evade is low armor decay is a huge factor, in a bad way. Even wearing ghost might cost u a lot.

Just skill up your evade as fast as u can and escape this cursed circle.
Then, anything will work for u. Big armors, small armors, anything.
(Well, ok, except the biggest most expensive armors, for those u need even more evade.)
Click to expand...

I'm working on it but it's a veeery slow process.
Gotta keep on grinding :handgun:
 
Ghost is pretty heavy on decay, if you like that spread of protection, and really for any option, I would suggest (L) armors. (L) last a very long time, and with armor durability enhancers... I had one high tier piece last 7 months, And I hunt alot.

If it were me I would go with gremlin or viceroy in place of ghost, if I had to go UL.
When I made the change as a heavy hunter from ghost to gremlin years back, I noticed about 20 ped a hunt(600 ped ammo hunts) difference at CP.

Consideration 1: UL armors will only protect fully for one hit.(the decay drags the protection down with it, meaning you need to repair often to keep the base protection near optimal) (L) always protect 100% the armor values.

Consideration 2: Armor plates can take eco low protection armors and make them targeted for mobs at quite a savings.

Consideration 3: Your decay is based on the type of damage vs the type of protection. That is, if you have an impact suit, and get cut damage...it is void and thus no decay. It gets more tricky with multiple protections.

As example, Ghost has 1 acid protection. So lets say you go off and use your ghost to kill an acid only mob. You are far better off taking the suit off vs wearing it, because that 1 acid protection will initiate the decay of the hit for such a negligible effect of 1 damage. Again it gets more tricky with higher armors and mobs.


I have a very(caution very :)) sloppy armor tool (in progress) on my site, while it doesn't show decay differences, it will show you what every maturity of a chosen mob will hit you for with a particular armor and plate combo.
 
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Its simple, you pay decay for tge protection you get, the more hitpoints the armor "absorbs" the more it will cost in decay. The durability for UL armors representa 1 % per 1k durability so the best way to protect is as small protect as possible to still have efficient hunt and prefer plates before armor because those decays less :)
 
The most easy answer is you really need to pay for what you want. If you want more protection, it is probably going to cost more To have better protection. It all depends of how much you are willing to invest. And most importantly, what you wanna kill.
 
tell me what mobs you hunt most and i tell you wich armor you need more
 
MeanMachine said:
tell me what mobs you hunt most and i tell you wich armor you need more
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It's hard to say :p
I try alot of different mobs, mostly iron mission mobs though (and there is quite a few :) )

My biggest problem is probably that I cannot afford to have 10 different armor sets to switch between based on what mob I'm currently hunting. What I need is some kind of "universal" armor (but as far as I know that does not exist).

But to answer your question I have mostly been hunting argos lately. I am currently in the later stage of the bronze mission and hope to never see an argo after that :p

Other then argos I have been hunting allos, feffoid, atrax, atrox (a little). Hoping to some day step up to ambulimax and feffox (have tried them but need a little more dps to hunt them comfortably).
 
Maybe Shogun or gremlin as allround. Kobold for cold dmg mobs. Goblin for acid. Adjust with plates. 5b and 6b maybe.
For smaller mobs Pixie should do (Argo, Atrax)

I am not familiar with the newer armor sets though so this might be total crap (I doubt it however :rolleyes:)
 
best armor for argos is unplated rascal
 
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