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ComPet & CombatPet Deeds (CPD)

Wollongong said:
The graph speaks of yield of deeds. And the assumptions are clear. Where you come up with the idea that you need the 30% multiplier is beyond me. Unless you are basically saying they are blatantly lying.
Click to expand...
[in short: it's point 3, the ARPU, which is probably the misleading bit]

Hi folks. I know it's a pain to work out everything oneself, but what options do we really have, given the 'reliability' of the sources otherwise available. Obviously you have to check for your own reliability as well, but here goes my thinking:

if 200,000 each buy 1 deed and generate 36 USD of revenue a year, then each would get 30% of that paid back out as his/her share = 10.8 USD. That's a bit more than 100% a year.
Now there's something wrong already, as that graph suggests unique players, but assuming only 20% actually pay to play. That doesn't match!

It could be that they mean not revenue, but "deed revenue" of 3 USD a month (I think this ties with what Wollo is saying), so players will actually be spending 3.3x more than that, as the rest of the revenue needs to be generated for MA too. So, it would be a spend of 108 USD a year and getting 36 USD via the deed. Now assume that only 20% are actually paying to pay and the income per deed drops to 7.2 USD per year return, with a deed cost of 10 USD. That's a return of 72%, so given the poorness of the x-axis figure positions, it's still out, but ok.


So, we need 40k paying players at 9 USD a month to get 72% return. BUT, the estimate is that on average, players will only pay for 6 months, so 80k 6-monthers for 72%, or 8k paying players for a return of 7.2% (a figure which would be ok, but somewhat low given the risk involved).

That scenario of 8k paying means 40k total (32k playing for free), and a consumption of players joining and giving up again later of something over a thousand a month.

Is that realistic? I have absolutely no idea.... but I doubt the hype curve would stay 'stable' anyway. Will things last long enough for a return on the investment before it becomes a game of the past, with the deeds then being worth much much less? Again, I dunno, but I think this element needs more consideration than the main EU world, which I think can exist for quite a while yet...

Well, ya know.... it's a bit like any loot we get - if we hit a multiplier, we are nicely up - if we don't, we are somewhere below break-even...... will I "shoot a few deeds"? Ohhhhh, probably :laugh:
 
I must say the graph is a bit confusing, something is seems wrong to me about it.
Let's say they mean the 30 % share of revenue is 36USD/year (3USD/month). If we have 50 000 players each year and they stay for 6 month at average we have at average 25 000 players, and 5000 (20 %) of those are paying players. That would give us 5000*36=180 000 USD in revenue or 180/2000=9% ROI. That not near 22-25% ROI you see a the 50 000 mark of the graph. So it a bit confusing at the moment, if I have not missed something?:scratch2:

Anyway, these deeds are more of a gamble and risk compared to the CLD deeds that already had a established cash flow, at the same time the reward could have more potential.
 
billairboy said:
I must say the graph is a bit confusing, something is seems wrong to me about it.
Let's say they mean the 30 % share of revenue is 36USD/year (3USD/month). If we have 50 000 players each year and they stay for 6 month at average we have at average 25 000 players, and 5000 (20 %) of those are paying players. That would give us 5000*36=180 000 USD in revenue or 180/2000=9% ROI. That not near 22-25% ROI you see a the 50 000 mark of the graph. So it a bit confusing at the moment, if I have not missed something?:scratch2:

Anyway, these deeds are more of a gamble and risk compared to the CLD deeds that already had a established cash flow, at the same time the reward could have more potential.
Click to expand...

Maybe income from deeds isn't flat per figh/action and graph incorporates some progres. In this case more users means income "upgrade" for those already sooner in it ( as they have more time and oportunity to develope their pets )

But some official clarification indeed would be nice, that graph don't seems even axis properly described.
 
jetsina said:
[in short: it's point 3, the ARPU, which is probably the misleading bit]

Hi folks. I know it's a pain to work out everything oneself, but what options do we really have, given the 'reliability' of the sources otherwise available. Obviously you have to check for your own reliability as well, but here goes my thinking:

if 200,000 each buy 1 deed and generate 36 USD of revenue a year, then each would get 30% of that paid back out as his/her share = 10.8 USD. That's a bit more than 100% a year.
Now there's something wrong already, as that graph suggests unique players, but assuming only 20% actually pay to play. That doesn't match!

It could be that they mean not revenue, but "deed revenue" of 3 USD a month (I think this ties with what Wollo is saying), so players will actually be spending 3.3x more than that, as the rest of the revenue needs to be generated for MA too. So, it would be a spend of 108 USD a year and getting 36 USD via the deed. Now assume that only 20% are actually paying to pay and the income per deed drops to 7.2 USD per year return, with a deed cost of 10 USD. That's a return of 72%, so given the poorness of the x-axis figure positions, it's still out, but ok.


So, we need 40k paying players at 9 USD a month to get 72% return. BUT, the estimate is that on average, players will only pay for 6 months, so 80k 6-monthers for 72%, or 8k paying players for a return of 7.2% (a figure which would be ok, but somewhat low given the risk involved).

That scenario of 8k paying means 40k total (32k playing for free), and a consumption of players joining and giving up again later of something over a thousand a month.

Is that realistic? I have absolutely no idea.... but I doubt the hype curve would stay 'stable' anyway. Will things last long enough for a return on the investment before it becomes a game of the past, with the deeds then being worth much much less? Again, I dunno, but I think this element needs more consideration than the main EU world, which I think can exist for quite a while yet...

Well, ya know.... it's a bit like any loot we get - if we hit a multiplier, we are nicely up - if we don't, we are somewhere below break-even...... will I "shoot a few deeds"? Ohhhhh, probably :laugh:
Click to expand...


Well, look at EU.... It's "free". :lolup: Well, then again, we don't know how this app works... :scratch2:
 
From the latest thread...

Bertha Bot said:
ComPet Deeds are now available on the Entropia Universe global auction via the PC client, and via the Virtual Tycoon Android app.

More information about the ComPet App:
  • The ComPet App will provide new business opportunities for MindArk, and will help to grow the Entropia Universe user base.
  • The ComPet App content and art style will be separate from that of Entropia Universe.
  • There are no plans at the moment to make ComPet pets available in Entropia Universe.
  • Development of the ComPet App will not negatively impact the development, nor the performance of Entropia Universe. In fact the servers will be entirely separate.
  • The economies of Entropia Universe and the ComPet App will be entirely separate.


Originally Posted Here
Click to expand...

I really wish MA would be more specific. The economies will be separate yes, but we also know that Stables will be the central trading ground for pets, at least that's how it's been described.

There are too many assumptions that have to be made right now, as a result, it's going to be hard for a lot of people to invest in CPD
 
HardWrath said:
From the latest thread...



I really wish MA would be more specific. The economies will be separate yes, but we also know that Stables will be the central trading ground for pets, at least that's how it's been described.
Click to expand...


What I get is that it's two different things, pets ingame, with stables etc. is not the same things as the pets in the application. Separated games. That is what caused the confusing, they have just released information concerning the up coming pet system and battle arena in game and at the same time now this separate pet game. A bad timing, it's not strange that we get confused :silly2:
 
billairboy said:
What I get is that it's two different things, pets ingame, with stables etc. is not the same things as the pets in the application. Separated games. That is what caused the confusing, they have just released information concerning the up coming pet system and battle arena in game and at the same time now this separate pet game. A bad timing, it's not strange that we get confused :silly2:
Click to expand...

This is especially problematic because if MA really intends to make the battle arena a mobile/web game, this ComPet venture is going to dilute and/or confuse the market for what would in essence be the same game, but tied to EU.

So did they just change their mind and decide to severe the ties between the two, or are there truly going to be two conflicting games for fighting your pets, one tied to EU and one not? This is beyond SNAFU, even for MA.
 
billairboy said:
...So it a bit confusing at the moment, if I have not missed something?:scratch2:
Click to expand...

no, you've not missed anything, in an attempt to dress up the projected yeild someone at MA forgot to show the 30% revenue. oh dear. as it is you'd need 400k users to hit the 100% return, and why even show that, who'd expect 100% yield? with the questionable assumptions and non-communication of the app vs ingame elements, you have to wonder if this is credible venture. if it were any other investment, i dont think a single person here would give this a minutes consideration with these shoddy numbers.
 
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I was kinda hoping for a system where EU tamers might serve as suppliers for the fighting pets in an otherwise separate game.

Not to be I guess....
 
Stormdancer said:
I was kinda hoping for a system where EU tamers might serve as suppliers for the fighting pets in an otherwise separate game.

Not to be I guess....
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought it would be something like that a first.
 
billairboy said:
Yeah, I thought it would be something like that a first.
Click to expand...

It could have been an interesting tie in. EU tamers supplying custom fighting pets, perhaps to order. Stables gaining a bit of revenue stabling/enhanced continued training....etc.

Not sure how EU Battle Arenas might have fit in but it was all pure guessing/hoping anyway :)
 
Stormdancer said:
I was kinda hoping for a system where EU tamers might serve as suppliers for the fighting pets in an otherwise separate game.

Not to be I guess....
Click to expand...

I think to a degree that will be the case and if it's not, there will be a lot of upset people.
 
billairboy said:
It's sounds like it will not be that way.
Click to expand...

And this is what gets frustrating because now we have to go through and reconcile hints posted on various days across numerous statements by MA. This leaves all kinds of room for interpretation, speculation, wishful thinking, and assumptions... Which then sets the stage for confusion and disappointment

What we need is a comprehensive and specific outline of how things will work. We need it because MindArk wants us to buy two million US dollars worth of deeds...

How will ComPets be linked to EU?
Where will ComPet items originate?
Will ComPet use PED or a different currency?
Etc, etc

Please give us a clear and concise picture of how this will work.
 
HardWrath said:
I think to a degree that will be the case and if it's not, there will be a lot of upset people.
Click to expand...

Entropia Universe Patch 14.7.4.1
ComPet Deeds are now available on the Entropia Universe global auction via the PC client, and via the Virtual Tycoon Android app.

More information about the ComPet App:
The ComPet App will provide new business opportunities for MindArk, and will help to grow the Entropia Universe user base.
The ComPet App content and art style will be separate from that of Entropia Universe.
There are no plans at the moment to make ComPet pets available in Entropia Universe.
Development of the ComPet App will not negatively impact the development, nor the performance of Entropia Universe. In fact the servers will be entirely separate.
The economies of Entropia Universe and the ComPet App will be entirely separate.
Click to expand...

It's all unclear but from this latest post MA is saying that there will be no link and I'm guessing here that PEDs will not be used as well. Sad day.
 
Yep, it's pretty clear, according to the latest information, the only link to EU will be via compet deed sales and any revenue stream from that, I assume will be delivered to your ped flow center. That's the only connection, other than some of the cartoon animals you can buy in the app might be based on EU mobs (atrox and bery if we give the pic any credence). I am assuming they will also have a pop up ad or something that invites users to make an EU account and try out EU (since they mentioned it is supposed to bring in new players).

Other than that, no connection with EU at all.
 
Neil Stockton said:
Yep, it's pretty clear, according to the latest information, the only link to EU will be via compet deed sales and any revenue stream from that, I assume will be delivered to your ped flow center. That's the only connection, other than some of the cartoon animals you can buy in the app might be based on EU mobs (atrox and bery if we give the pic any credence). I am assuming they will also have a pop up ad or something that invites users to make an EU account and try out EU (since they mentioned it is supposed to bring in new players).

Other than that, no connection with EU at all.
Click to expand...

We'll let's not forget how the stables will function... Those seemingly will be the central hub that links EU to ComPet
 
HardWrath said:
We'll let's not forget how the stables will function... Those seemingly will be the central hub that links EU to ComPet
Click to expand...

Doesn't sound like it, from the latest info.

To me, it sounds like they're just brainstorming this stuff as we speak, that there's no clear plan yet. Given the contradictory info we've had over the last week or two I'd say it's likely to be completely different before it's released. It's strange tho they've started selling compet deeds and stables before the plan for them is formed. Pretty risky investments.
 
HardWrath said:
And this is what gets frustrating because now we have to go through and reconcile hints posted on various days across numerous statements by MA. This leaves all kinds of room for interpretation, speculation, wishful thinking, and assumptions... Which then sets the stage for confusion and disappointment

...
Click to expand...

My suggestion would be...

Why bother? :lolup:

Why trouble yourself with having to guess and getting frustrated by it?

We're not the ones looking or asking for the money. In fact, its MA trying to get our peds...so let them post out something concise first. Let them be the ones having to convince us to "buy" their deeds.

Its plain silly to be doing things the other way around. :wise:

:D
 
sawachika said:
My suggestion would be...

Why bother? :lolup:

Why trouble yourself with having to guess and getting frustrated by it?

We're not the ones looking or asking for the money. In fact, its MA trying to get our peds...so let them post out something concise first. Let them be the ones having to convince us to "buy" their deeds.

Its plain silly to be doing things the other way around. :wise:

:D
Click to expand...

Anyone know if MA already sold any?


Would be preety retarded if anyone bought any already...but u know people,...



Its either the ego or the curiosity which kills the cat,..

Lots of times its just wanting to be "better" than others (only by perception), by having something others dont..


With this said,...I'll ask differently...how many od these ScamDeeds u think MA already sold?
 
the_prophet said:
Anyone know if MA already sold any?


Would be preety retarded if anyone bought any already...but u know people,...



Its either the ego or the curiosity which kills the cat,..

Lots of times its just wanting to be "better" than others (only by perception), by having something others dont..


With this said,...I'll ask differently...how many od these ScamDeeds u think MA already sold?
Click to expand...

Yesterday was around 300. You can check if you login in the game.
I wanted to buy 1 but now after your post 'retarded', 'ego', 'wanting to be "better" than others (only by perception), by having something others dont'.
In another game for the same will be called supporter or baker. Here if you want to support MA and buy some deeds so they can expand some people will call you all that above.
With this said,...I'll ask differently: Do you deserve to play that game?
 
AxeMurderer said:
Yesterday was around 300. You can check if you login in the game.
I wanted to buy 1 but now after your post 'retarded', 'ego', 'wanting to be "better" than others (only by perception), by having something others dont'.
In another game for the same will be called supporter or baker. Here if you want to support MA and buy some deeds so they can expand some people will call you all that above.
With this said,...I'll ask differently: Do you deserve to play that game?
Click to expand...

Not sure if your intention was to scribble up something unreadable or what the actual point of your post which is quoting me is...

If you have a problem with what I wrote - ignore it - if you're too (all of the written above) - then thats your problem :)

So if you want to play that game, go ahead, I sure can't say if it will be likeable or not - my point here is that its a scam, an unjustifiable attempt made by MA to skin the players of even more money.
 
the_prophet said:
I sure can't say if it will be likeable or not - my point here is that its a scam, an unjustifiable attempt made by MA to skin the players of even more money.
Click to expand...

How can you say it's a scam if you 'can't say if it will be likeable or not'

Even if it is not very successfull that doesn't make it scam.

By your definition every kickstarter game is a scam, SC is a scam, every DLC or even game where developers want to make more money is a scam.

If you have a problem with what I wrote - ignore it.
 
AxeMurderer said:
How can you say it's a scam if you 'can't say if it will be likeable or not'
Click to expand...


MA's math presented is an attempt into tricking people into buying the deeds, showing 100% CPD income, not the 30% which players get from it...

might have influenced a lot of decisions on buying them so far...
 
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Seeing how Virtual Tycoon never hit the iOS. I'm wondering if this app will also be "Android" only.

If so, that will be a huge ouchy.

Will it even exist for Windows Phones to? :p
 
I just checked the deeds on the auction there is no information shown for them only the name .
Was this just me (lag maybe) , does anyone see information about them to explain what they are for ?
 
Guarana said:
Will it even exist for Windows Phones to? :p
Click to expand...

3% of the market hardly worth dev costs.

SoReal said:
I just checked the deeds on the auction there is no information shown for them only the name .
Was this just me (lag maybe) , does anyone see information about them to explain what they are for ?
Click to expand...

There's "Compet Deed" line in the description tab, so apparently that's all they have to say about it.

Since they're going to launch it in Q1 2015 (and that's only their word), the deeds won't have any use for at least half a year to come.

If to go into full skeptic mode, I'd say they're going to pay for the app development with the money they'll raise with the deed sales. If they fail to sell enough deeds, there won't be any app at all (and no dividends). But hopefully the things aren't that bad.
 
Svarog said:
If to go into full skeptic mode, I'd say they're going to pay for the app development with the money they'll raise with the deed sales. If they fail to sell enough deeds, there won't be any app at all (and no dividends). But hopefully the things aren't that bad.
Click to expand...

The app have been in development for over 1,5 year and I don't think they will throw that away.
 
billairboy said:
The app have been in development for over 1,5 year and I don't think they will throw that away.
Click to expand...

Where did you get that timespan? I must have missed something (unless you mean the development of ingame taming and that's not it).

As I see it, they just met the guys that are going to make and maintain the app for them:
Bertha Bot said:
MindArk is always eager to explore new opportunities and will soon be announcing the first such partnership project, separate from the existing Entropia Universe product. Full details will be made available on the MindArk.com website very soon.
Click to expand...
 
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