ComPet & CombatPet Deeds (CPD)

HardWrath

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Since I have 3.5 hours before I can be home hunting Eomon, I thought it would be a good time to post this because I think it would be good to explore the potential economic impact of MindArk's upcoming game called ComPet.

So far from what we know it seems that EU and ComPets will each stand alone, functioning independently of each other, but will be tied in together through the new Stables being auctioned off. I think that if you look at the long term evolution of the gaming market, this step is both inevitable and also necessary simply because more and more people are moving over to a tablet/phone lifestyle instead of one that's centered around a Personal Computer. As a result, MindArk has to enter the mobile market.

But how do you fit EU into a phone or tablet? You can't, the only way is to fit small compartmentalized components of it into a whole new game. The economic potential for all of us inside EU is huge. All of those ComPet related items will have to come from somewhere and at least some will no doubt originate from crafting and even hunting loot.

The mobile market is something that's already huge but the potential for organic growth is enormous. Think about playing EU at home on your PC, it's a pretty anti-social activity. Now think about any of your coworkers or friends playing a game on their tablet or smartphone. They can do that (and do) while around other people. Now think of their reaction when their pet wins or loses a fight and they win or lose money as a result. There will be visible body language and possibly a verbal response that follows the outcome of an important pet battle. This will cause anyone around them to take a slight interest in what they are doing and in a lot of cases, people will eventually ask that person about what they are playing. As a result, some of those people will also install the game and try it out.

Because ComPet will be a mobile app, they won't have to go through a multi hour download and installation process either. A few clicks and they will be in. Their short attention span won't be wasted on a long download process.

Now that's all great for ComPet but it's also good for EU because any of these people who get really into that game will want to see how deep the rabbit hole goes and as a result many will download EU. This will introduce a lot of new payers and possibly a lot of new money to the game economy.

So through the sale of Combat Pet Deeds (CPD) MindArk will raise $2 million USD and then use that money to develop and then promote that game. All we can do is wait and see what kind of ROI the produce but if ComPet succeeds then it will likely help everything else in EU too.

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Assumptions underlying the graph:
1. That the average user lifespan will be six months
2. That 80% of the users will play for free and 20% will pay to play
3. That the Average Revenue per Paying User and month (ARPU) will be 3 USD.
 
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You have some very good points and I'm going to say it could all work out, but you have to remember two points:

1. This is just another version of PvP..not that big in EU.
2. It will cost money to play.

These both together may not be all that hot of a deal. But if it does all work out and people do come in to play a new type of PvP and spend money for it and we in EU need to supply the demand for it, then this will be a win win for all of us.

What MA needs to do is find other ways to use the pets other then PvP. Kind of like fishing would be a great add in since no pvp or killing is needed. (yes, fishing..) So we need a non violent way to use the pets in the table world were people would like to spend that extra money to compete with others.

One small idea would be to have a way to tame/trade pets with the tablet...or version of PacMan..bu the idea to make a friend game all would like to play.
 
It is all speculation based on a model that has not been attempted. Like tens of thousands of decent games, there is a very high chance of failure, like the emissary program, or the Ap, or other attempts at doing something "different" when the game is known for the content it has now.

Pandas are so overdone it is not even funny, and it has no business in EU. When I see a panda I see a lack of imagination and a hope to get to the WOW crowd. It is a bad staple of many ad companies to draw that crowd, which really we don't even want here anyhow.

I also do not agree that Mindark, a small company should be devoting so many resources on largely experimental ideas. When focusing on the core concept is in all of our best interests. The more they add new things without focusing on the current, the more I am convinced they lost their ways.

If it fails then we lost that many possible players to a concept that isn't even Entropia. Guilty by association.

And then there is the appeal to kids, for a real cash game that is questionable. Camel cigarettes had to remove Joe camel mascot since it was too cartoon-ish and appealed to kids.

I think you might get some unexpected and undesired exposure on that front, from many overzealous parents who get pissed, AFTER they find out what their kid downloaded, and instead of blaming parenting will blame the creator.

I hope it pans out, but I think its far too risky to attempt, and it would seem we are subsidizing these ideas with our gameplay.
 
But how do you fit EU into a phone or tablet? You can't, the only way is to fit small compartmentalized components of it into a whole new game.

aside from the assumption "you cant" put EU in a tablet, if you want a component, why not PVP areana's, instances or a smaller world etc? they could recreate beacons, or other idea inkeeping with the old game. for a company thats failed to execute on their main... only product for several years, this is going to be a major diversion of their attention. RCE and revenue through decay has died, its about crowd selling revenue shares now. best case is that it serves as a glorified advert for EU and draws people into the main game. though i dont think those players will transfer or like what they find so promptly leave.
 
From what I Can tell MA just needs cash. Stables, this etc... So tempting XD
 
I play tapped out every day, I've got 5 stars on both Springfield and Krustyland but I've never handed over cash for the premium content (no point with the number of cracks available to give infinite donuts).

They're simple games in comparison to full desktop or consoles games which is the key, they're not something you have to analyse in great depth and only need to spend a few minutes on.

Whatever our personal feelings about this are MA will carry on regardless.

I don't think the mobile app will be a big diversion for MA nor their main programming team as it will almost certainly be developed by the same people who wrote Virtual Tycoon.
 
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how so? it says 0 price
(and also "estimate monetization activity" ... "no guarantees on accuracy")
They pay for things like upgrades. If you want to get further in the game you buy different upgrades.

You wouldn't believe how much money flows through these types of games. Kids get allowances or work for some cash or get the home financing. (That's mom and dad for the ones who don't know! ;))

It seems kids and adults have one thing in common, they don't like being second best! :laugh:
 
I play tapped out every day, I've got 5 stars on both Springfield and Krustyland but I've never handed over cash for the premium content (no point with the number of cracks available to give infinite donuts).

They're simple games in comparison to full desktop or consoles games which is the key, they're not something you have to analyse in great depth and only need to spend a few minutes on.

Whatever our personal feelings about this are MA will carry on regardless.

I don't think the mobile app will be a big diversion for MA nor their main programming team as it will almost certainly be developed by the same people who wrote Virtual Tycoon.
lol and for the ones who don't use crack... errrrr cracks... ;) they pay. :)
 
So far from what we know it seems that EU and ComPets will each stand alone, functioning independently of each other, but will be tied in together through the new Stables being auctioned off.

I am sorry, but we know neither. While it is easy to deduct that it is independantly functioning (as it is an app with clear functionalities and boundaries), but that is not "knowing".

And I have not seen any mention of the stables onplanet having a role in the app. At least, not in any primary source. Only in posts made by players.
 
I am sorry, but we know neither. While it is easy to deduct that it is independantly functioning (as it is an app with clear functionalities and boundaries), but that is not "knowing".

And I have not seen any mention of the stables onplanet having a role in the app. At least, not in any primary source. Only in posts made by players.

It is pretty safe to assume this is what they mentioned in the roadmap, which means we do know that.

Web-Based Battle Arena - (Planned for Early 2015 Release)

A web-based Battle Arena game is planned for early 2015. The game will be developed as a cross-platform solution available on the web and for mobile devices, and will have direct ties to the Entropia Universe taming system. Players will have the opportunity to acquire, upgrade and customise their pets for battle against the pets of others.

Entropia Universe participants will have the ability to acquire Battle Arena Deeds and share in the revenue and excitement of the Battle Arena action. 200,000 Battle Arena Deeds will be offered via the Entropia Universe in-game auction and upcoming webshop at 100 PED each. Revenues generated from the Battle Arena Deed offering will be used exclusively for Battle Arena development and marketing. More detailed information about the Battle Arena Deeds will be made available very soon.
 
aside from the assumption "you cant" put EU in a tablet, if you want a component, why not PVP areana's, instances or a smaller world etc? they could recreate beacons, or other idea inkeeping with the old game. for a company thats failed to execute on their main... only product for several years, this is going to be a major diversion of their attention. RCE and revenue through decay has died, its about crowd selling revenue shares now. best case is that it serves as a glorified advert for EU and draws people into the main game. though i dont think those players will transfer or like what they find so promptly leave.

I think that there are a lot of elements in EU that can potentially have an offshoot mobile app game that's tied into the Entropia Universe economy. If MA can find moderate success with ComPet, then the potential for more of these will be very real.

Imagine an Entropia Universe with a dozen or so interconnected mobile games.

I truly want ComPet to succeed because I keep wondering about what ways this can augment loot of the original three professions. What items will be looted? Weapons, armor, taming tools? Will there be crafted items too? What mined resources will those consume?

There is so much potential, so again, imagine EU with many of these interconnected mobile games and how those could boost the game economy as a whole.
 
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Given all the assumptions, guessing and confusion, MA really should give us more explanation.
 
Given all the assumptions, guessing and confusion, MA really should give us more explanation.

I agree 100% and if MindArk could be more specific then they will be able to get a higher auction price for their new Stables and also will have a much easier time selling all of their CPD.

And then I want to come back to this point:

Imagine a scenario where ComPets is a big success with hundreds of thousands of active players... Maybe eventually millions of users. Well, all of those items that those people buy and use in ComPets will have to come from some where and the most likely place will be our loot pool.

For years I've been very frustrated with the lack of success with PVP in EU, not because I particularly love PVP, but because of the economic balancing aspects. Looking at the loot system as a whole for hunting, mining, and crafting, it's obviously not a zero sum system because MindArk has to take out their portion to pay expenses and investors. Sure they could reduce the percentage they take as the player base increases in size, but you will never get into a scenario where TT returns for the average player are positive long term. So that's why we chase markup values, what little bit there is.

With the three professions as they are, it's probably not possible to create a scenario where loot returns are amazing on average without bankrupting MindArk. It just doesn't work, especially since we would just grind and grind to extract every last PEC. So PVP has always supplemented our loot returns, not only by TT value, but also with markup values of PVP related items, but this is only a small incremental increase. If you think about it, during PVP, players spend and consume but don't extract anything from the loot system, which means they are the ones adding to loot while the rest of us extract from the loot system.

With PVP as it is, it's popularity and success will always be constrained by and directly proportional to the size of the overall player base, which means the loot system's net gain from PVP will only be incremental at best. Sure MindArk can incentivize PVP monetarily, such as with LandGrab and Oil Rigs but the income from those washes away and completely negates gains made to the loot system through PVP combat.

ComPet, which sounds like it will be exclusively PVP, pet vs pet, with no loot system or a separate loot system, has the potential to add too the Entropia loot system in a meaningful, perhaps substantial way. Of course that relies on the big assumption that MindArk will insert ComPet consumables into our loot but I think that it's common sense that they will, at least to an extent. Moreover deed revenue from CPD, at least a large portion, will end up being cycled into hunting, mining, and crafting by those deed holders.

If ComPet is even moderately successful then Taming has the potential to be the 4th major profession and hopefully can add markup to hunting loot in the way that crafting does for mining loot.
 
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It does have a loot system though

Once the user is satisfied with the pet configuration, the pet can be entered into the ComPet Arena or enlisted for defense duty at the user’s home base. In any battle, trainers can win real cash prizes. If players play for free they can win special pet upgrades and points; if played for PED (Project Entropia Dollars), they can win more PED, which can be exchanged for real cash.
 
It does have a loot system though

It seems more that winnings will be derived, at least in part, from costs (fees) to enter the fight. At least that's what a lot of us are assuming...
 
So we're assuming that the return will always be lower than the amount paid to enter a pet into the arena?

Why would anyone do that. Or are we saying that for instance 10 people enter pets and the winner takes the pot, assuming it's multiple combatants.

What happens when 9 are free playing and the 10th isn't? Will the prize be subsidised from other contests so that the winner always get the same payout?

With the CLD's and the Ark deeds we knew what they were based upon - us playing EU but all we've had from MA are some general statements and massively optimistic speculation on returns.

The other problem is that they could us to pay the $2,000,000 produce the app and then find that google, apple and amazon won't add it to their app stores.
 
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So we're assuming that the return will always be lower than the amount paid to enter a pet into the arena?

Why would anyone do that. Or are we saying that for instance 10 people enter pets and the winner takes the pot, assuming it's multiple combatants.

What happens when 9 are free playing and the 10th isn't? Will the prize be subsidised from other contests so that the winner always get the same payout?

That's why we need more information about this because right now it's all guess work.
 
Smartphone, tablet and browser users will be able to compete with one another by selecting one of the many pets available in the ComPet application. There are various maturity and price levels available to fit players of all types, including a free-to-play version. Once a pet has been selected the user will choose a number of “buffs” and “add-ons” that can both personalize the pet and enhance its combat prowess. Next, users carefully prepare a unique battle plan; this is a set of special instructions for the pet on how to engage its rival. Once the user is satisfied with the pet configuration, the pet can be entered into the ComPet Arena or enlisted for defense duty at the user’s home base. In any battle, trainers can win real cash prizes. If players play for free they can win special pet upgrades and points; if played for PED (Project Entropia Dollars), they can win more PED, which can be exchanged for real cash.

I suspect these buffs and enhancements will decay or be consumed in some way. Why wouldn't they? So then from that, a "loot pool" possibly could be derived. And then it specifically says people can play for free or play for PED so this likely will include putting money on the line somehow.
 
That's why we need more information about this because right now it's all guess work.

Absolutely. But we know what MA's track record with giving us information.
 
It is pretty safe to assume this is what they mentioned in the roadmap, which means we do know that.

Hmm, yes...with that source, it's suddenly a lot more supported :)
Thanks for bringing this up.
 
For years I've been very frustrated with the lack of success with PVP in EU

I think the majority of players that love shooting other players in the face are either playing FPS games like Call of Duty or dedicated PVP games like Eve Online (with no real financial penalty)

I could be wrong but I'd estimate only 5% of us are remotely interested in sending our personal avatars out into PVP.... a pet though? Perhaps! :D
 
I think the majority of players that love shooting other players in the face are either playing FPS games like Call of Duty or dedicated PVP games like Eve Online (with no real financial penalty)

I could be wrong but I'd estimate only 5% of us are remotely interested in sending our personal avatars out into PVP.... a pet though? Perhaps! :D

There are different reasons for liking PVP and I enjoy it to an extent as long as the discourse doesn't get too personal. However, when there is a real financial incentive, PVP becomes more appealing to a much broader demographic.
 
There are different reasons for liking PVP and I enjoy it to an extent as long as the discourse doesn't get too personal. However, when there is a real financial incentive, PVP becomes more appealing to a much broader demographic.

Bearing in mind for every person who wins there will be a person (probably many) who loses, and if you are new, the odds are stacked very highly against you.
 
Bearing in mind for every person who wins there will be a person (probably many) who loses, and if you are new, the odds are stacked very highly against you.

Well, I hope their will be tiers or something for different levels, that way people can fight with others on their own level. Im sure there will be

There are various maturity and price levels available to fit players of all types, including a free-to-play version.
 
I don't see clarity about playing for Ped or winning cash.

Will there be new players who can play completely free, those who buy premium content but cannot win cash, and those with EU accounts who can win Ped.

Or new players who can play completely free, and those who buy premium content and those with EU accounts, both of whom can win Ped which can be turned into cash.

If it is the second, then there will have to be a new cash withdrawal system giving new players quick access to their winnings. If it is the first, the mass-market appeal will be much much smaller.

As Spike previously said, will the operators of Android and Apple allow this app if the only way to withdraw cash is the current system of minimum 1000 Ped and a long delay? They certainly won't allow the sort of ambiguous and misleading advertising as represented by this announcement.
 
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Looking at the graph again it's been cleverly set up. It's actually a linear relationship between the number of players and the return, some may be fooled by the upward trend of the line but that's because of the geometric nature of the scale at the bottom.

The return appears to be around (number of players) / 2000 to get a 100% return it's simply 200,000 players which is equal to the number of deeds.

Assuming a 80/20 split that's 40,000 players are paying to play. A 100% return on the $2,000,000 cost of the deeds each player would need to spend $50 with no withdrawals.

But this is assuming 100% of the income goes to the deed holder but it's actually only 30%. So to get the return quoted in the graph the 40,000 players to spend $167 per year.

However according to this

That report is a year old but taking those figures as an average (if MA can use 80/20 then I can use this) each player will only spend $11.04 / year. Even assuming all 200,000 players pay the $11.04 each deed will get about $3 / year or 2.5ped / month.

I've also used the higher value from the report they suggest in game purchases are only $0.79 / month.

But we all know games take a while to get a foot hold in the market and usually it's word of mouth so I'm expecting the first few months to be extremely lean.
 
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I'm also curious to see the ARPU of ComPet. I'm willing to bet that it will be significantly higher than the average mobile game, just like EU is dramatically higher ARPU then the average PC game.
 
But this is assuming 100% of the income goes to the deed holder but it's actually only 30%. So to get the return quoted in the graph the 40,000 players to spend $167 per year.

The graph speaks of yield of deeds. And the assumptions are clear. Where you come up with the idea that you need the 30% multiplier is beyond me. Unless you are basically saying they are blatantly lying.
 
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