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FYI: Underground deeds MU manipulation

Biller said:
MA, fix the problem of multiple accounts, then auction manipulation problem gets fixed automatically.
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Well, how do you fix that? It's not something that's possible to regulate, after all how do you stop a person from registering an account in their spouse's name, or their kid, brother, or whoever? You can't.

How can MA fix it?
 
Fix it completely.... I doubt it.

But hell, my ticket got the copypasta and got closed. I swear if MA looked at their logs and started banning people most of the alt problems would be gone. Also most of the exploiting problems would be gone, also most of the harassment problems would be gone (have you seen a dude telling newbies at Icarus to leave the game? I have).

MA just needs to stop being passive and ban people. It's not that hard.
 
HardWrath said:
How can MA fix it?
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If MA want - they can.
They can in same way as they did many years a go ( i think was year after gold) when they blocked acces for some gorup of players for hacking some skin textures, and seccond time few years latter when they blocked access to all players from another country because of bad acctions of some players.
Anyone who wanted to contiue to play had to send MA various documents like ID card or passport or driving licence together with some house bils on their name ...

Ma shud not allow anonymus accounts.
MA shud appy simillar methods for account registration proccess.
This bring age werification and also a lot more trust.
In the end are we in RCE or not?
 
HardWrath said:
Well, how do you fix that? It's not something that's possible to regulate, after all how do you stop a person from registering an account in their spouse's name, or their kid, brother, or whoever? You can't.

How can MA fix it?
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Yep, i agree with this, there simply is no sure way of regulating who plays what account. The closest thing possible is motherboard serial number based "DRM" but that of course only effects individual PCs and the additional player irritation from that isent really worth it i think.

I do agree with you Angel though, they should start enforcing some parts of the EULA more activly in situations where its clear as day that someone is using multiple accounts.

Best regards
Zweshi
 
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Svarog said:
Doesn't solve anything, one still can provide id scans for 10 family members playing from same PC.
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I was thinking more along the lines of one pc one/limited amount of accounts type control but yea you are right about the limitation of it in that sense, absolutely :).
 
Seriously got nothing better to do then cry about everything?
What a coincidence that the guy sold ten deeds right after it...i think the guy sells deeds for a long time now.
Price is about fixed atm. Deeds go for 44-46peds atm. Mu graphs dont change those things.
O btw,i think it was a money transfer from wifes acount since 2nd didnt startup today.
 
If every new account had to register a credit/debit card before they could access various features of game like auciton etc.. You wouldn't have to pay, just an amount between .01c and 99c could be withdrawn then you enter that amount on the website to verify it's your account. Then you won't have alts.
 
Also as dan said it's an rce so start acting like one, at least make a fucking attempt to even slightly look like you give a shit about security, and make it possible to withdraw PEDSs in a timely consistent manner.
 
For me the real question is who the hell n what the hell for someone would still buy AUD, even at 45 per deed, ROI is barely hitting the 8%....
 
Kitch said:
If every new account had to register a credit/debit card before they could access various features of game like auciton etc.. You wouldn't have to pay, just an amount between .01c and 99c could be withdrawn then you enter that amount on the website to verify it's your account. Then you won't have alts.
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That won't work. Many people change bank accounts as often as they change their underwear. Add in bank accounts that have multiple people as the owners on them, corporate accounts that a bunch of people have access to, etc. and the problem is still there... not to mention that would seriously cut down on the methods of depositing available.
 
While you cant log each account for alt activity you can certainly track behaviors, and even social maps now to a very complex level with algorithms places like google, facebook and the NSA use.

It would be fairly easy to map transactions between accounts and set flags for certain behavior:

for example one alt makes 50 amps, and trades them to the sales alt..you could easily look for x amount of any items traded perday/week ect and send a flag, x amount of flags and MA gets an alert, or look if any ped actually transferred, or compare the chat to see if anything had been typed ect.

Obviously core flags like the same IP address, account address' and other indicators would be a factor to track too.

The program could easily compile this data from within itself and send the reports to Customer service or whomever to be verified by a person. These kinds of systems can be accurate enough to be effective in narrowing the possibilities, like facial recognition, only for accounts via activity.

Would require a database and knowing what information you want to look for, and implementing a program to track and collect flags in the game, which should already be in place anyhow, if I recall Crysis already includes this.
 
Agree it would be really easy to get rid of the majority of the exploiting manipulators. That whole 80/20 rule holds here as in most things: you can do 20% of effort needed to finish something and get 80% of it. In this case there are probably at most a half dozen people behind the constant auction manipulation that goes on. Simple automated investigation of buying/selling logs will narrow down list to something a single employee can comb through and investigate in an afternoon and ban them. You don't have to eradicate the practice, just control it and make it clear there are consequences.

Manipulation happens all the time BTW. A specific case i've observed is that of a certain UL weapon that is essentially in unlimited supply that has been manipulated repeatedly over the past year or so to prevent the MU from dropping.
 
would it be the same for high price uber item that poeple buy and keep for a wile for the price not to drop then post it again and again trading hand not beying use
 
I'm not going to read all the post of this thread....

But I wonder what is going to happen if .... stocks and stock exchange are going to present in this game

realy some of you believe that MA need to do something like this?
this is clear transfer funding for me with a very clumsy way
 
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I don't think MA would be allowed to keep this game up if they don't have any mechanisms to prevent money laundering. How efficient those mechanisms are is a whole another topic, but i believe there's something...

One player i knew for years used to buy and sell top level gear (guns, imp faps) using direct bank-to-bank transfers (bypassing the game). He never got banned, but after a while his loot disappeared. I could dismiss his constant whining, and his comparisons to times when he could make profit from hunting as subjective. However, the effect of him joining the team - it was unreal, the loot just vanished.
He started to take long breaks. It's not easy to let go something u have done since 2005. Eventually he came back again, tried hunting again, with eco weapons on small mobs, tried crafting, tried even mining (althou he had always hated it lol). Finally gave up, sold out, left for good. After seeing the torture he went through, i'd say there's worse things than simply getting banned...
​
Can't prove anything ofc, it could be a simple coincidences. If there is any truth in this, it would be logical that the "serious" control mechanisms don't fire up for just any suspicious activity, there must be certain thresholds. Trading with a few hundred AUD might not qualify.
 
Fifth said:
One player i knew for years used to buy and sell top level gear (guns, imp faps) using direct bank-to-bank transfers (bypassing the game). He never got banned, but after a while his loot disappeared. I could dismiss his constant whining, and his comparisons to times when he could make profit from hunting as subjective. However, the effect of him joining the team - it was unreal, the loot just vanished.
He started to take long breaks. It's not easy to let go something u have done since 2005. Eventually he came back again, tried hunting again, with eco weapons on small mobs, tried crafting, tried even mining (althou he had always hated it lol). Finally gave up, sold out, left for good. After seeing the torture he went through, i'd say there's worse things than simply getting banned...
​
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Any proof that this happened? Sounds like a story meant to scare resellers....
 
Resellers are one thing but he was circumventing MA and their cut of the deposits. There have been others who have tried to sell ped by taking money through paypal.

Billy Jean Ruby said:
But I wonder what is going to happen if .... stocks and stock exchange are going to present in this game
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We had a stock exchange but it was removed before I joined and everyone was given a 2x purchase cost. The building was in PA for a long time and was present up until the rebuild with vu10.

http://www.entropiadirectory.com/wiki/places_of_interest/

Former Stock Exchange location
Implemented in Version Upgrade 4.1 (December 2002) with the following description: “The Project Entropia Exchange is up! Here you can trade shares in various companies and organizations. The list of companies will increase as more and more are introduced. In the initial launch two entities exist – Sphere Ordnance (the Calypso ammunition manufacturer) and Friends of MindArk.”
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Its functionality removed in vu6.2 November 2004 - PROJECT ENTROPIA VERSION UPDATE 6.2

I'm sure they know about the alt selling accounts but they're probably thinking about the economy, the crafter is consuming resources from miners and possibly hunters. If the price is being kept low then to their eyes it means more people mining using high decay items over the possibility of players stop playing and stop depositing because they can't get the stuff they want.

They usually only step in when it's hurting them.

One way to catch a PC with multiple people would be on installation a certificate was generated by MA. Then it's verified by them when the loader opens, even if the IP address or username changes the certificate won't. The only way to get a new certificate would be a reinstall and even if someone managed to circumvent it they'd know certain players were logging in with new certificates a little too often.
 
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Neil Stockton said:
Any proof that this happened? Sounds like a story meant to scare resellers....
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Ow, neat idea! Only have to figure out a way to make some profit by scaring resellers.
Lemme see how to do that. Suppose we scare em so they scream and jump, peds drop out, snatch the peds? Seems legit. Gotta go whip up a few even scarier stories! :silly2:

Well, if seriously, think about Fatah and Ahmed. Fatah got money, Ahmed has to buy materials for a dirty bomb. How to transfer the monies to Ahmed? NSA is tracking all transactions! Right, we have found a safe way to do that. Fatah makes an account in EU, drops some pricey items on the ground, Ahmed goes picks em up. Ahmed puts up some stupid sales on auction, Fatah immediately buys em. Done! Non-traceable funding!
Well. Dunno about you but on the planet i'm living on it just doesn't quite work that way... No matter if i like it or not. Might be different on your planet? :scratch2:
 
Svarog said:
By the time Ahmed gets his money, he might already have converted to Buddhism, or humanity might have abandoned all feuds and united against an invasion of arachnids from outer space :)
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Oh, that's why the long delays. Pentagon is safe, for now. :laugh:
 
SpikeBlack said:
We had a stock exchange but it was removed before I joined and everyone was given a 2x purchase cost. The building was in PA for a long time and was present up until the rebuild with vu10.
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I Think the building was in Fort Troy (huge bulding). There was an Exchange terminal though in the servicecenter deluxe close to the TP in port atlantis.
 
Fifth said:
Ow, neat idea! Only have to figure out a way to make some profit by scaring resellers.
Lemme see how to do that. Suppose we scare em so they scream and jump, peds drop out, snatch the peds? Seems legit. Gotta go whip up a few even scarier stories! :silly2:
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The reason for wanting to scare resellers is simple. The net effect of resellers on the economy is an inflation of markup. So less resellers means you pay less markup for the items you need. Unless they're reverse resellers (buy high, sell low), of which there appear to be some in game.
 
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pay less mu also means you get less peds for the items you sell. But...i really dont get what the problem is in this thread..:scratch2:
 
Infinity said:
pay less mu also means you get less peds for the items you sell. But...i really dont get what the problem is in this thread..:scratch2:
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Not really, because the resellers take the profit you would have had (or I should say we, since you are one of these auction resellers I'm talking about). If resellers drain peds from the economy, those are peds that came from other actual players in the form of higher mu paid.
 
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On a side note:
Even if they spiked it by +1,000,000 (whilst it would leave it's taint on the graphs), the AUD INCOME isn't going to change any time soon and thus it wont make the AUDs any more attractive, now will it? ;)
 
Neil Stockton said:
The reason for wanting to scare resellers is simple. The net effect of resellers on the economy is an inflation of markup. So less resellers means you pay less markup for the items you need. Unless they're reverse resellers (buy high, sell low), of which there appear to be some in game.
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here you say resellers rise markup

Neil Stockton said:
Not really, because the resellers take the profit you would have had (or I should say we, since you are one of these auction resellers I'm talking about). If resellers drain peds from the economy, those are peds that came from other actual players in the form of higher mu paid.
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and little later that without resellers items wont be cheaper

:scratch2:
 
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