Is crafting dead? Does EU need to change the description?

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Forgo Forgorth Lundain
EU has three professions, I have done a fair amount of all of them.
Crafting it seems is not considered one anymore.

Hunters and miners even now can loot their own gear to use, and gain skill at reasonable rates, not so much with crafters (it takes about 3 years of hardcore crafting to skill the same professional level as a casual hunter).
Our skill gain is horrid, and we cannot loot anything that does not need more costs to see the actual loot.

I craft alot, I have alot of blueprints. I have rare blueprints and high level blueprints. Part of the reason to get higher level blueprints is the chances of drops from them, if this chance is eliminated, why buy blueprints at all?

I have never looted necromancer armor prints (one player owns the market for years) as they do not drop despite clicking (expensive) level 8 blueprints fairly often, and now they are given away to hunters instead of dropping in crafting.

Just incase people start going nuts on MU about the bps that have never dropped, a player has had the monopoly for nearly a decade, and crafts them regularly, at a markup that would deem these new bps pretty low valued.

So is crafting dead? are all of the impossible prints left to loot only available through hunting, or given to a special avatar? Is this a legal way to avoid looking like the avatar has a monopoly on many items that has seemingly been involved with MA from the beginning?

Just questions, and something to consider at MA that the balance is very off base, and needs serious looking into.

Unfortunately no-one at MA crafts so they will never know how bad it is between the professions, or what a slap in the face it is to continuously see goods that should be crafted, dropping in other professions.

Seriously....a BP drop in a hunting event? Get with it.

This would be like me looting UL shadow, or UL mining amps, instead of residue with crafting.

Wouldn't have many happy hunters and miners if the items they are hoping to loot end up dropping on basic filters.
 
I don't know much about it but I can offer my 2 pecs.
I know that Apis crafting is pretty much if not totally dead and that was a HUGE area. Mining has been real bad as of late, and that has seemed to slow amp production. People don't want to buy lvl 5 or lvl 7 (or bigger) amps if there is a high chance they won't even global! I used a Terra 6 amp and found claims, but not 1 global.
I noticed for this year migration, (L) weapon amps are low MU and makes me think it's not worth to craft those. There are also a lot of UL faps floating around - making production of many faps not good. We all know Ark crafting has dried up - as making Herman weapons is gone.
What is there left to craft that will sell?

I also see that Oils, metal res, and a lot of other mats are real low in MU. That leads me to think it is a great time to craft, but I am not seeing that result of the market conditions.

AKA - crafting is asleep .. ?
 
Other planets have plenty of opportunities.
 
Hunters and miners even now can loot their own gear to use, and gain skill at reasonable rates, not so much with crafters (it takes about 3 years of hardcore crafting to skill the same professional level as a casual hunter).
Our skill gain is horrid, and we cannot loot anything that does not need more costs to see the actual loot.
I agree the skilling rate is totally skewed against crafting, but that's really beside your main points it seems. I think it deserves it's own conversation.
So is crafting dead?. . .

Just questions, and something to consider at MA that the balance is very off base, and needs serious looking into.

Unfortunately no-one at MA crafts so they will never know how bad it is between the professions, or what a slap in the face it is to continuously see goods that should be crafted, dropping in other professions.

I agree. Personally, I don't see any hidden intent to secretly help any given player, it seems that it's mostly just that the people deciding what drops and and at what rate haven't given much thought to the second and third order effects of their choices.

To put it simply; each weapon that is 1) Looted from hunting 2) Sold to another player and 3) Used to hunt, reduces the amount of weapons crafted by players by one. In the extremes, if there are more weapons looted than weapons consumed, there is no room for crafters. If the vast majority of weapons used were crafted, then crafters would have a very active role in the economy.

Of course, mining MU is directly related to the need for crafters, as is the MU of miscellaneous hunting loot like oils and robotic components. Also, I use weapons as an example - this all applies equally well to armor, amps, and faps. As of now, there is no looted substitute for crafted enhancers.

Crafters, more than any other profession, depend on an active, deep, and interrelated economy to be successful, and they therefore can be used as a measure of how active the economy is. They need miners that supply materials, component crafters to supply intermediate materials and residue, and hunters to supply the organic materials. If the economy is shallow, where hunters loot all their own weapons and effectively just trade with each other to get the right level and type, people will still be able to hunt, but the other professions and the connections between players become irrelevant.

The start of the change is seen in a two year old thread from Kims's response to das's post #214. Kim wants the MU from hunting to come from looting L items. This is further discussed in Bjorn's Post 340 and Bjorn's post #350 where he states
Quite the opposite is true- much more Limited gear is being looted after VU 12.8 than before, and not only the new Calypso weapons. Limited armor, weapons and Mindforce chips are much more abundant in loots on all planets than they were before the VU, by quite a large factor.

Of course, there are other factors, like MA taking the place of crafters when they sell weapons via the token traders, and UL weapons which permanently reduce the demand for crafters.

Spawn said:
Other planets have plenty of opportunities.
For now.
 
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Weapons and mining amps form the bulk of crafting ped cycled... or at least they should.

I've always thought it absurd that guns faps and armor are looted from mobs. It makes about as much sense as looting 15 tails from one mob, and more importantly, it undermines crafting. Of course mobs need to drop exciting items every once in a while but these should not be L guns faps or armors. Currently, guns which are better than any crafted versions are dropping with such abundance on most planets that there's no demand for the lower dps, lower eco crafted versions which should be the staple of 90% of the hunters.

As David pointed out, mining amp production is severely reduced today compared to two years ago because globals even with large amps are rare. None of the Mindark employees mine and they really have no clue about what makes mining fun for miners. When using amps is fun, amp crafting will contribute more ped volume than any other kind of crafting.

So, I wouldn't say crafting is dead, but it's severely cripped until MA takes the following steps:

1) Mindark needs to hire a hunting loot balancer rather than leaving this responsibility to the night janitor.
2) Bring back the mining system from 2 years ago (eg. 2-4 globals every 1000 ped cycled) to make using amps fun again.
3) Increase the frequency of crafting multipliers to make crafting fun again.
 
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They need to do a lot more than that but it's whether or not the players will stomach it.

The RCE needs to take precedence over some of the activities again and MA need to stop the reliance on high hp and high risk mobs from hunting.

The max tt of L items should only be a few hundred ped not thousands. The decay rate needs to be reduced and the maximum loots reduced from the ludicrous levels they've attained over the past few years.

The L kit needs to be seen as disposable versions of the UL stuff. With the maximum tt values reduced it increases the number of attempts each crafter can try but as each attempt will be lower risk we may get more people skilling crafting rather than relying on repair skilling but at the same time increasing the need from the players as instead of requiring one or two items they'll five or six.
 
Crafting is not dead. I continue to do well selling crafted gear. I confess I don't grind for uber loots or bps. I'm running a business, not going to a casino.

That said I am very much reliant on a healthy hunting and mining economy. I need enough active miners on my planet to provide a dependable supply of ingredients (most ingredients for ark weapons and armour are mined). I need enough active hunters to generate demand for my gear. Demand seems to be ok most of the time. Even though weapons do drop from mobs, people keep coming back to my shops. I offer consistency of supply that isn't available thru hunting. While I can understand peoples views re the impact of looted weapons and armour, we need to be cautious about removing this feature as that is a significant source of MU for hunters. Without that, where is the incentive for them to hunt? No hunting means no demand for my gear. Really what we need here is an appropriate balance. Enough good MU loot for hunters without totally removing their need to give me peds.

I do struggle at times to source ingredients from miners. And I guess the miners need enough active crafters to generate consistent demand for their mining. So it's all interrelated.
 
The main problem is that most of the newer BPs (on Calypso especially) need a ludicrous amount of ingredients, many of which are crafted components that also need a ludicrous amount of ingredients to create. Casual crafters don't want to spend loads of time and money sourcing 50 different ingredients and filling up their storage with junk that they won't need to use very often. Hence most BPs remain unused.

In the old days there were a lot of BPs that used far fewer ingredients which were crafted daily and provided income for professional crafters without any need to cripple hunting loot.

Keep It Simple, Stupid.
 
I give Calypso a lot of blame for this. They don't attempt to balance their economy against all others at all. For example, Arkadia removed limited armor from their mobs and substituted for the extremely rare UL versions. They did this so that crafters could have something to craft with markup... but the moment they did that, Calypso unloaded their limited armor in all their mobs and basically nullified any good that Arkadia tried to do for crafters. As for the Pirons, I don't agree with it.. it did away with the Herman series.
 
As for the Pirons, I don't agree with it.. it did away with the Herman series.

No it didn't. Pirons replaced the looting of Hermans from mobs, and they only go up to SIB 37. So there aren't really any Arkadia looted high dps options. And even with the lower level Hermans I continue to get good sales. I haven't done a detailed analysis but I can see with my June sales that it includes purchases of the full range of hermans that I can supply from -0 to -65. Not only that but MU history on hermans is not distorted by hunters selling looted hermans at prices lower than the cost to craft. Sales continue to be generally strong. (May was a good month, June was quiet, July is looking to be above average)

I was concerned when the Pirons were introduced because they really are very good especially when amped but I am finding the impact to be minimal.

Armour sales have generally trended upwards for me since May last year. Not sure what the reason is but I'm happy about it. Removal of limited armour from Arkadian loot has been good and now I am selling more low level armour though that doesn't have much of an impact on my overall revenue. Seems to be a lot of competition in the high level armour and its tough to craft that at a competitive cost.

Regards,
KikkiJikki
 
So there aren't really any Arkadia looted high dps options.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

Thats it.
One dont have much incentives to hunt on Ark and this will negatively pay back in long run.
Not only weapons but also faps.
Ark dont have higher than lvl 65 fap.
Finder lvl 8 is rarely seen in auction too.
Resources , components for enhancers and for tiering lvl 6, lvl 7 and up are almost non existent and 8, 9 and 10 only on bigest mob stalkers or bigest event boss mobs.
Market for precious stones do not exist ecept for garments so no tiering on Ark and mean also that crafters dont get hofs probably.
High lvl texturising BP's dont drop, instead drop all high lvl Caly texture BP's..
So crafting on Ark could be promissing in future but now need some love form MA and PP devs.

So if one need UL gear and certain consumables is forced to go to Caly and buy.
 
Hello
Yes MA Kill Craft (the used craft)
Now 90% of craft si gamble or TT food

In real economy craft is important and the vector of exchange PvP
In real economy hunter and miners and others collect and loot items/materials used to craft nice and used item to have better caracteristic.

In past crafting was used to armor (Solir/ghost/plates....) to guns and amps (X1 XT..Apis manis M15 M35 M45 tac shear....) and tools to craft or heal, loot from hunter and miners had a MU

Craftors wanted to skill and try to loot bps (Limited) , but now maybe 90% of Limited bps are useless


With the news planet and their bps (A noob can craft lvl10 bp's) we can find now Ubber armor a 130% weeee


I remember my dream to skill and skill again to maybe craft a day ubber armor
or my 10 k clik's on lvl 5 bps to try to loot limited bps

Now as many craftor i stopped to craft and make some compo sometime
MA kill craft and kill the game for me ..my pov ofc
 
In real economy craft is important and the vector of exchange PvP
In real economy hunter and miners and others collect and loot items/materials used to craft nice and used item to have better caracteristic.

yes!!

usable items should be removed from hunting loot...all usable items should be crafted...


they should only put some tokens/rare stuff in creature loot to exchange for weapons from npcs so that hunters still have a chance to get uber item loots..
 
yes!!

usable items should be removed from hunting loot...all usable items should be crafted...

And then hunting loot has no MU and crafters have no customers.
 
And then hunting loot has no MU and crafters have no customers.

we re talking abour items

hunter must loot materials (rare unco and commun) to sell to craftor

and sometime loot can contain rare and very rare items...As we are in past before the VU how put tons of TT materiels and tools in loot
 
And then hunting loot has no MU and crafters have no customers.

if all usuable items would be crafted, lots of ppl would craft....
those crafters need materials which come from mining and hunting..sure there has to be some rebalanced bps but i think in the end all parties would benefit..

hunter must loot materials (rare unco and commun) to sell to craftor

and sometime loot can contain rare and very rare items...As we are in past before the VU how put tons of TT materiels and tools in loot

yeah, there should be some rare items in hunting loot left or as i described perhaps in forms of rare tokens or sth to trade in via NPC into ul items or sth
 
And then hunting loot has no MU and crafters have no customers.

In the perfect situation would be like hunter and miner sells looted materials/minerals with markup for crafter to craft useful items, then hunter and miner buy it from crafter to make a perfect cycle. The cycle wasn't perfect but still working before October 2012(IIRC) that mindark added TONs of new and superior looted weapons in calypso loots. The cycle start to break since then, now the whole weapon crafting business is dead, don't talk about your turnover increase or whatever(no disrespect, you are surely an important crafter too). Do you remember Boardian, siremi, Gandalf and more who crafting weapons and sell at a much more competitive price, now where are they? All of them either quit the game or weapon crafting business.

Crafting is indeed broken nowadays, this is what Bjorn replied to me about this concern almost two years ago, but sadly all those newly added weapons are not being craft at all. Just copy to here so if somehow Bjorn read this thread can start to pay attention to the interdependence of the 3 major professions again.

Yes, we put a lot of thought into such issues.

The interdependence of the major professions {mining, hunting and crafting} is a very important aspect of the loot rebalancing project. A large number of new crafted items are in the pipeline not only from Calypso but also from other planets. Some of those have already begun to be rolled out, for example RockTropia's new range of crafted weapons. Lots more will be introduced in upcoming partner releases, the next of which is scheduled for the 4th of December.

Those new blueprints, resources and crafted items are part of a larger effort to not only reinforce and enhance the mining and crafting professions, but also to stimulate local planetary economies and interplanetary trade.
 
Crafting isn't dead, you just have to adapt.

If MA didn't change the game up every so often then before long everyone is clicking the "good" prints and undercutting each other's prices as they scramble to get their stuff sold... We have seen that happen a lot of times and it doesn't take long before the 'market value' falls below the cost to craft.

Balance will never be perfect...

You have to be willing and able to adapt, if you fail to do so, don't worry, someone else will take your place.
 
Crafting in my opinion needs more BPs dropped for components to be fixed that have very little uses like simple plastic springs III, ruds III etc. Most of the time it just makes sense to tt a lot of components because there are no blueprints to use them in.
 
Still waiting for fishing :)
 
There is no doubt a ton of new categories of crafted items that could be introduced.

I'm not talking about weapons, armor, faps, amps, or mining tools either.
 
There is no doubt a ton of new categories of crafted items that could be introduced.

I'm not talking about weapons, armor, faps, amps, or mining tools either.

Well..... care to tell us what they are?
 
Of course guns should drop hunting. You complain about other crafters having monopoly on other crafted items. Imagine all crafters having a monopoly on guns? You wouldn't even profit anyway (you'd have to sell for a loss to make the gun good dmg/pec).

Crafters have been given far too much imo. This whole (L) stuff was just because of crafters moaning for years. Now ironically even bps are going (L), good bps don't appear anymore socrafters are being screwed by their own demands.

I came back after a long break and was kind of hoping all the "Crafted" guns I was seeing on Entropedia would be easily available. They barely ever are in auction, and if so at a markup that's below 2.85 dmg/pec, mostly below 2.8 dmg/pec.

People should simply be warned about crafting. The best crafters lost 10,000s of ped over the years. I witnessed numerous breakdowns and complaints from Hally, Headwar, Buzz, Mindbuster, Auktuma, and more great crafters who probably never got surpassed.

There needs to be far more education like, if you craft it will cost you 10,000 ped a month and you will have almost nothing to show for it. So people don't get disappointed with the results.

Please start making more (L) guns with good dmg/pec ^_^
 
EU has three professions, I have done a fair amount of all of them.
Crafting it seems is not considered one anymore.

Hunters and miners even now can loot their own gear to use, and gain skill at reasonable rates, not so much with crafters (it takes about 3 years of hardcore crafting to skill the same professional level as a casual hunter).
Our skill gain is horrid, and we cannot loot anything that does not need more costs to see the actual loot.

I craft alot, I have alot of blueprints. I have rare blueprints and high level blueprints. Part of the reason to get higher level blueprints is the chances of drops from them, if this chance is eliminated, why buy blueprints at all?

I have never looted necromancer armor prints (one player owns the market for years) as they do not drop despite clicking (expensive) level 8 blueprints fairly often, and now they are given away to hunters instead of dropping in crafting.

Just incase people start going nuts on MU about the bps that have never dropped, a player has had the monopoly for nearly a decade, and crafts them regularly, at a markup that would deem these new bps pretty low valued.

So is crafting dead? are all of the impossible prints left to loot only available through hunting, or given to a special avatar? Is this a legal way to avoid looking like the avatar has a monopoly on many items that has seemingly been involved with MA from the beginning?

Just questions, and something to consider at MA that the balance is very off base, and needs serious looking into.

Unfortunately no-one at MA crafts so they will never know how bad it is between the professions, or what a slap in the face it is to continuously see goods that should be crafted, dropping in other professions.

Seriously....a BP drop in a hunting event? Get with it.

This would be like me looting UL shadow, or UL mining amps, instead of residue with crafting.

Wouldn't have many happy hunters and miners if the items they are hoping to loot end up dropping on basic filters.

Lol,lol.lol.....Deram on and sleep well....

I will tell you the truth about hunting.

I am No 23 in all time hunting at Entropia Life with soon 10k globals and hofs my best lvl is lvl 116 in BLP Hit and Dmg, best skill is soon 15000 Points and total skills is about soon 500K ( last time i took a look at them it was over 480k ) and i have one of the best attributes in the game with 280 in HP.

And i have to tell my Avatar was born here in May 2006.

Best item i looted so far is a Jaguar foot guards M (ul) back in 2008.


:twocents:
 
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Of course guns should drop hunting. You complain about other crafters having monopoly on other crafted items. Imagine all crafters having a monopoly on guns? You wouldn't even profit anyway (you'd have to sell for a loss to make the gun good dmg/pec).

Crafters have been given far too much imo. This whole (L) stuff was just because of crafters moaning for years. Now ironically even bps are going (L), good bps don't appear anymore socrafters are being screwed by their own demands.

I came back after a long break and was kind of hoping all the "Crafted" guns I was seeing on Entropedia would be easily available. They barely ever are in auction, and if so at a markup that's below 2.85 dmg/pec, mostly below 2.8 dmg/pec.

People should simply be warned about crafting. The best crafters lost 10,000s of ped over the years. I witnessed numerous breakdowns and complaints from Hally, Headwar, Buzz, Mindbuster, Auktuma, and more great crafters who probably never got surpassed.

There needs to be far more education like, if you craft it will cost you 10,000 ped a month and you will have almost nothing to show for it. So people don't get disappointed with the results.

Please start making more (L) guns with good dmg/pec ^_^

WTF I just read?
 
WTF I just read?

tl;dr

Crafting is a sucky pedsink, and the things crafters begged for ruined many more areas of the game and didn't even make crafting better.
 
Best item i looted so far is a Jaguar foot guards M (ul) back in 2008.

Did you really loot Jaguar foot guards M (ul) back in 2008?
 
tl;dr

Crafting is a sucky pedsink, and the things crafters begged for ruined many more areas of the game and didn't even make crafting better.

Thx for "tl;dr" version, because your each paragraph was contradicting with previous.

Crafting is the same "pedsink" as every other profession.

So, we had nice start with Arkadia, with it's own matts and nice line of weapons, all was looking nice.

Then suddenly shit started to drop from hunt, with such stats fuckuping everything craftable. Newly introduced stuff for craft is FAR away from worth crafting, it's a joke.

It was the hunters begging for - to ruin craft&mining? They happy now?
Or it was intentional fuckup from balance-waffen team? They happy?
 
Thx for "tl;dr" version, because your each paragraph was contradicting with previous.

Crafting is the same "pedsink" as every other profession.

So, we had nice start with Arkadia, with it's own matts and nice line of weapons, all was looking nice.

Then suddenly shit started to drop from hunt, with such stats fuckuping everything craftable. Newly introduced stuff for craft is FAR away from worth crafting, it's a joke.

It was the hunters begging for - to ruin craft&mining? They happy now?
Or it was intentional fuckup from balance-waffen team? They happy?

Why don't you just make a load of 0x0F382C8C91E58C8273C0 (L) and sell for 115%? Then we can all be happy.
 
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