Retention rate

One thing I see over and over again is this: Players want to play above their level.

I think that our society in general is expecting "instant gratification" with almost everything and this transfers to expectations of this type of game.

I have seen in Rookie Chat channel many times the question "how do I make a profit quickly?" If we knew, we would not tell anyway! Haha!

Most times the answer is "You don't." If I was a new player and got that answer... why would I stay?

I have also seen new players (level 10 and under) buy armor and guns that are above their level because they are impatient and want to jump right in. They think that by purchasing these things and going out and hunting huge mobs they will succeed.

However, because they are new players and their base skills/attributes (such as Evade) are low the result is that they still die, still take decay, still spend too much on ammo... only to find they can't kill enough beasties to get a global - and that global would not make them a profit anyway after all they sunk in. That is because higher end armor and guns will only do so much without the skill to use them economically.

This game is so complex and stacked... new players should have to agree to a disclaimer saying they went out and researched the game for a minimum of 6 months before they made an account. LOL

I still recommend Alice's guide - even though it is a bit outdated, most of the information there is still applicable or at least close enough to give a new player and idea of what they are getting into.

I totally agree with the above post. Also with the classic short version by Xen

Xen said:

The game is not for those with a short attention span or who lack intelligence (or peds to make up for it).

So it's not a good game for most people on earth.

Click to expand...

Stupid ppl tend to make me mean and aggressive and i don't like to be like that. Thankfully EU has those "filters" that help to keep most of the brainless herd away.

So there goes our dream about potential huge playerbase? R.I.P. forever, i guess...

mikaile said:

One thing I see over and over again is this: Players want to play above their level.

I think that our society in general is expecting "instant gratification" with almost everything and this transfers to expectations of this type of game.

I have seen in Rookie Chat channel many times the question "how do I make a profit quickly?" If we knew, we would not tell anyway! Haha!

Most times the answer is "You don't." If I was a new player and got that answer... why would I stay?

I have also seen new players (level 10 and under) buy armor and guns that are above their level because they are impatient and want to jump right in. They think that by purchasing these things and going out and hunting huge mobs they will succeed.

However, because they are new players and their base skills/attributes (such as Evade) are low the result is that they still die, still take decay, still spend too much on ammo... only to find they can't kill enough beasties to get a global - and that global would not make them a profit anyway after all they sunk in. That is because higher end armor and guns will only do so much without the skill to use them economically.

This game is so complex and stacked... new players should have to agree to a disclaimer saying they went out and researched the game for a minimum of 6 months before they made an account. LOL

I still recommend Alice's guide - even though it is a bit outdated, most of the information there is still applicable or at least close enough to give a new player and idea of what they are getting into.

Click to expand...

Actualy (as state before on the forums) the problem is even that players want to play on their (skill) level, but over their (financial) level. Even I do that mistake and always play with the biggest gun I can. Good that I can depo enought. But probably need to go down to the smaller mobs.

Many join EU expecting it's like the games they played before. It isn't.

where is the option for "Pressing only 1 button is boring as hell" When you can play a game just by running around in first person with auto aim turned off and holding down the left mouse button something is very broken and needs to be fixed. I mash more buttons playing Super Mario Brothers.

Fanan said:

Before 2013 we had cool items dropping from low mobs (i still remember the first time I looted pixie gloves from a snable in 2008) and good size HOFs from mobs like molisks, cornundas, longus, argos etc.

Then on January of 2013 Mindark thought that by lowering all the maximum loots for almost every thing in the game would make ppl to go hunt bigger or craft bigger or use bigger amps. On the next VU they even lowered global threshold for a lot of mobs, because global chat was more boring than ever! (hours on end without see a player getting a 300 ped HOF)

Click to expand...

I guess this explains a few things. I am 1% from graduating and still havent looted a single piece of armor. I first tried this game back in like 2005 or 2006 and used to at least get some pixie drops every now and then.

Items occasionally drop on the low end mobs but that low drop rate has gradually spread further and further up the ranks.

Might be the missions with so many people grinding the same mobs MA had to reduce the drop rate or we'd have been flooded with the same items. Maybe they should rotate those missions out every now and then e.g. only 10 iron missions per planet that have to be rotated out every 2-3 months and put the drop rates back to how they were when the missions aren't active. So it's more like a hunting season for each mob.

The more complex EU becomes with all it's options it always reminds me of JC.


When you have to start tracking basic stuff in spread sheets it just sucks the enjoyment out of a game.

HardWrath said:

Game play is too slow, repetitive, and isn't fun.

Spawning noobs in a major population center like Camp Icarus helps but more needs to be done.

There needs to be drama, there needs to be a challenge.

When I started EU, the trip to the oil rig was an epic journey from which some people were never heard from again... Only the brave dared attempt it.

Today, getting to the noob oil rig is easy, anyone can do it, and once you arrive you quickly learn that it's nothing more than a welfare line with the occasional ass, such as myself, coming through for an easy PK hof.

Click to expand...

This!!!! When I started back in 2005 it took a few days to get to the rig and then had to get back. Same with making it from the outpost down south with the spiders and troxes. So fun.. The fun was in the drama and work. Getting stuck in the old blue area with the necs that dropped good armor and random bots that dropped guns. Or the argos that dropped amps and couches. That was the highlight of the day! Or just the rumors of the crazyness such as the bots or lava pools. crazy times and miss it.

Petley and HardWrath are right.

Some of the other responses has an arrogance level that is palpable. "This game is not for people with short attention spans. Blah blah blah." You guys represent the community. Would you want to hang out with somebody who talked like this?

You want to know what one of the biggest problems with this game is?

You guys are.

i did initially chose that it is too hard to profit (as it rightfully should be for low level players)
\but im thinking its the tt returns even for extremely low level mobs the ups and downs are too insane and can easily demolish someones ped card, even if they deposited their first 20 dollars at day one.

ive found that even mining has wildly low returns over extended periods of time, over the last 7 months ive been seeing a constant 80% tt return in my tracking log primarily unamped and with L finders with decent depth (MU not included in my log) ive cycled over 110k peds this way and its just ridiculous. im seeing the same in hunting with low level mobs melee skilling.

MA needs to fix volatility in tt returns even further imo

Magyar_Republic said:

Petley and HardWrath are right.

Some of the other responses has an arrogance level that is palpable. "This game is not for people with short attention spans. Blah blah blah." You guys represent the community. Would you want to hang out with somebody who talked like this?

You want to know what one of the biggest problems with this game is?

You guys are.

Click to expand...

Few people appreciate the truth, most people like fluff. It is what it is.

sidxx said:

ive found that even mining has wildly low returns over extended periods of time, over the last 7 months ive been seeing a constant 80% tt return in my tracking log primarily unamped and with L finders with decent depth (MU not included in my log) ive cycled over 110k peds this way and its just ridiculous. im seeing the same in hunting with low level mobs melee skilling.

MA needs to fix volatility in tt returns even further imo

Click to expand...

So true

Spawn said:

the most common reason:

there is no reason to play this game.


(UL, any) armor drops that sits between adj pixie and settler is non-existent in loot.
(L) weaponry still drops from daikiba and merp. But Mindark's incentive to improve loot has stopped there and has been partly taken away. (remember colonizer armor from shinkiba)
So there is no "wow"-factor (wow, i just looted a goblin armor part, it looks really cool and green!)
That's the reason your disciples stop. they don't get a "wow". So they stop.

Fragments and oils and bones? WHY?

Click to expand...

I actually strongly agree with this, the game is extremely slow right off the bat and there's no clear reason for people to want to play it, especially when they can see themselves slowly or even quickly losing the money they deposited, or just the small amount of money they were given to start with, but when you add the fact that there's almost nothing to look forward to in the loot pool from any mob ever that just makes it even more boring.

You can kill 5000 mobs and get nothing but the same 5-10 boring stackables with no markup on them over and over and maybe one or two boring (L) items that nobody even wants.

Back in the day the loot was somewhat stale too, with PEDs being dropped if you can imagine that, but cool UL armour and guns were a somewhat regular sight and there was a lot to look forward to from the loot pool. I think a lot of players thought to themselves many times "eh, yeah, I lost some PED back there to hunt, but I got this really sweet gun that I wouldn't even consider throwing in the trade terminal" "I think if I need to deposit to keep hunting I will, because I wanna get more cool stuff!"

Spawn said:

the most common reason:

there is no reason to play this game.


(UL, any) armor drops that sits between adj pixie and settler is non-existent in loot.
(L) weaponry still drops from daikiba and merp. But Mindark's incentive to improve loot has stopped there and has been partly taken away. (remember colonizer armor from shinkiba)
So there is no "wow"-factor (wow, i just looted a goblin armor part, it looks really cool and green!)
That's the reason your disciples stop. they don't get a "wow". So they stop.

Fragments and oils and bones? WHY?

Click to expand...

Agree to that!
I remember my beginnig. My mentor told me what to hunt to get my armor sets together.
It started with snables, exa, daki to get my pixi.
Then moved on to cornundacauda, that dropped goblin and kobold from time to time.
The molsik was great to get some shogun parts.

As a noob I could hunt for my armor sets, I had goals. I was motivated and did started depositing.

Today, the low level mobs drop nothing a newby needs, so why a newby should hunt.
Its very demotivating if you got no items in loot.
Hell yes, Pixi and Shogun was TT food for most players that time, but who cares it was awesome finds for the noobs like me if they looted it.

I remember one event on Exa, I looted 42 Pixi Parts in one hour event hunt. TT was happy, I thought shit Pixi useless TT food.
But for a noob going solo vs a big exa. It was a though fight, and this though fight got a reward (a pixi part), what could be bought at auction at less than +1 PED, but buying is not looting.
Its very demotivating for new players if they notice that there is nothing useable to loot.
And what should mentors tell them, deposit for every item you want, as there is no chance to loot it?
If mentors are honest its exactly what they have to tell their disciples, no wonder disciples quit within 2 days.

When my avatar grew up, and I started to go vs bigger mid level mobs, I noticed that the better armors don´t drop, that rate. Later I thought, those armors don´t drop at all, but hell every few month I noticed someone looting a nice armor part. Soc mate looted jag arms from tezla, I looted a boar helmet myself, another friend looted a t-bird part from thoriofid.
It happend that old days that every here and then one of those armors dropped.
Then came the big change to L.
UL armors stopped completely to drop and L armors dropped like shit.
Today I got the feeling that even L armors got removed from loot.

Hunting became real bad. Can´t remember when I last looted any item that could be used (not by me, but by someone who is low level). There is nothing, even mid level mobs don´t drop items anymore.

Exactly that was the reason why I took a longer break from EU.
Well I am back, but what do I do today? Today I don´t like hunting, what was my main proffession befor my break.
Most times I do craft (gamble against TT) or I do mine, to recover gambling loss.
Glad I deposited money to buy enough CLDs to cover 100% of my mining expence.

I still enjoy EU, because I remember old times. Hope that MA/PP manage to get some of the old feelings back.

To be honest, if I would start today, without my experience I made years back, I would very likely quit fast.

Putting aside all of the loot issues (low level mobs don't drop anything interesting for new players), and all of the economy issues, the real issue as to why people dont stick with it: The game is boring. Aside from the gambling factor, the game in all aspects is very 1 dimensional.

Hunting can be broken down into this: Buy gun and ammo, maybe armor, and shoot something in the face until it dies, while it tries to punch you in the face until you die. There are no abilities to use, just other types of guns. Gamers of this generation are used to having cooldowns and big flashy abilities that produce interesting and varied effects. All we have in Entropia is a game of Rockem-Sockem-Robots, where the player and creature punch eachother in the face until one of their heads pop off.

Mining: Walk in a line and left click repeatedly, then go back to the beginning and suck out the resources with the Mineral-Vac-3000.

Crafting: Put in materials, Click Auto-craft, Click Start, Go afk/to sleep for several hours.

The MAJOR problem is just that the gameplay is boring and stale. The game as it is now isn't going to have a very high growth rate because it doesn't change any of the flaws at the base of the game. I've got plenty of ideas on how Mindark can fix some of these base issues, if they're willing to fly me out to Sweden and pay me as a consultant.

EU is mostly single player game if we exclude trading part.
We have some special events where team work is needed.
Like gathering all parts for Hussk spawn, beacons, Land Garab, Shared mobs events and sweating.
For all ther rest you are alone to grind trought missions, kiling milions of mobs.
We dont have skill gain bonus for hunting in team and not loot bonus.
Then we have RCE and many different gear and is hard to think that newcomer with opalo will be wished and welcomed in team where all other members have something like modmerc or imk2.
But MA could create that possibility somehow.
We had some elements in past, some are still here as kind of support professions.

Runner,
Decoyer,
Tanker (in past but MA changed mob AI)
Healer,
Buffer,
Scout,
Investigator
Tager,
...

Sporadicaly player use healers and maybe also damage predealers- mob hp softeners.
Nice but not enought to hear "Looking fo a Party" / "Looking for Team Hunt" so offten.

Adding choice of loot percentage for healer in team creation is good start but not enought.
All team mebers shud get some experience in skill gains also those who work as support.
For example healer is geting paramedic or biotropic but could get also some fraction of HP giver skills or defence skills when other team memers get it as other members could get inteligence gain or other when healer get it.
Sure thats a lot different from EU skill sytem or to be more precise Item system and would be more based on experience and avatar level than on ammount of skills or quality of item/weapon used and is not so apropriate because of RCE.

But MA shud find way arround and create more situation where team work is needed.
Also situation where high skilled society could find convienient to take an newcomer in society. (bonus or additional soc function or whatever incentive)
We asked things on wich we got hundred times big NO from MA like society storage, loaning items..
But we asked also more realistic things and still waiting.
Like shared mission killpoints - mission team grind where each member get mission points/tokens ect.
And then possibility to raise attributes by fraction with less than 100 tokens...
Im sure MA could do a lot to create incentive that players do things together instead only solo grinding.
Once newcomer will not feel alone and could be invited in big soc and hunt mobs for wich he would need 10 years of solo grinding to be able to do it alone and that his work is needed for sucessfull society progress or team hunt then probability that he stay will be great.

I voted - Not enough game content/quality , because i depo the Money i can lose its not that but i want to feel the game and be able to do something in because the game is more like a black hole for the Money its more and more that you after just a few Days has lost 4-5k peds in hunting even if you hunt mobs that you have skills for and that you are maxed in the skills because i dont talking of to lose or profit i talking if you have some game fun for your Money and you geting less and less of it so now i will just depo 1/10 of it i usually depo or nothing because i dont feel that i geting som fun for my Money anymore...



P.S. I know what i talking about i am No 23 in all time in hunting and No 16 in hunt for the past year so you can say i am a mid hardcore hunter in the game.

I can olso say - Agree to that!
on what Spawn and Serica says it has to be a balance in your way in the game and a "balance" for you to loot items so you can see that you have a chanse to be able to loot some items you neeed also in your lvl in the game.

I have to agree with what Darkaruki, GoNi and JohnnyRotten.

Although I think they have attempted to improve the stale game play but they've used all the wrong parts from other games. They've tried to extract more ped from players instead of putting in interesting things to see, we used to go and visit these places if we got bored and we'd already been there then we could take others to see them instead.

For hunts part of what kept us going was that we would get an item we could use every now and then.

But for me the real downhill stretch for EU started in vu9 when they messed with the loot system to allow the huge tt L items to drop.

Then in vu10 they managed to lose most of the people who'd developed Calypso and EU which with the way the moon is being developed they didn't need to do and instead we got people who are determined to take EU in a direction many players don't really care about.

From the original poll options I'd say it's a combination of the first three.

From my experience it seems many of the people who join and quit shortly after, are college age crowd 18-22 or so. Though very curious about EU, many simply don't have enough time or money available to them. And it doesn't take long to realize this game is NOT free to play, so they leave. Perhaps they will return, but in how many years?

As for long term retention... (imo) Most of the people who join/try out EU are expecting to play a "game", but are instead presented a lifetime investment opportunity. For many this just doesn't make sense, to pay $10, or $100, or $1,000 per month to play a game, where loses are guaranteed.

At some point these new players will ask him/herself:
1) "Am I having FUN here, and does it match the amount of $ spent?"
2) "Am I willing to invest ever increasing amounts of $ for this FUN?"
If the answer is no they will likely not be seen again, or at least depo amount will be throttled.

............

My disciple list looks just like OPs, with no progress in months. One is even stuck at 96%, haven't seen him online in ~10 months. After wasting countless hours and peds on disciples that play for only 1 week, I had to stop taking on new disciples, it's too frustrating to bare.

As a relatively new player myself--and by relatively new I'd have to go with very new. Only been playing for a few months. I was hooked the moment I joined, however the five other friends I had that wanted to attempt to play EU with me, all bailed out. As of now only one plays from time to time, and she'll only do it if I kind of--bug her to hop on.

From what I've heard them say, it was mainly because they didn't feel as if they were getting anywhere. The majority of them attempted hunting--one dabbled in both hunting and mining. He dropped out the fastest. Couldn't comprehend the pay-to-play so to speak mentality. (His excuse) But, the rest of them also came to a halt. They weren't having fun hunting, all the while they weren't having a good time, I was enjoying myself doing research, looking up different mining theories etc, even clipping a few decent HoF's.

Now as time went on and I branched out more when it came to mining--finding different areas, generally exploring, dabbling with different finders--they felt stuck. Killing the same handful of creatures and slowly moving up. People have told me that in the past different armor pieces dropped off certain mobs which gave newer players a sort of goal. My friends sadly didn't have much of a goal except to cycle PED--all in all, I'd have to say the entry 'content' is a bit too slow. The game isn't for everyone, that much is clear. But to hook someone, there should be an early "goal" to head towards.

As a side note--I'm still enjoying this more so than anything else in a long time.

I am just beginning to type and am going to let my thoughts flow freely.... so I am just as curious (probably more) as you are to see where this post is going.

Reading the above, there are TWO reasons identified by the community for the low retention rate:

1) Bad Loot
2) No fun


1) Bad Loot
The bad loot argument is twofold; first, the speed at which a newb can lose all of his cash. This is indeed a problem, especially as they often have no clue of what they are doing. Perhaps, for this, it would be good to add a requirement to the newbie area, that one MUST have a mentor before being able to move on. And said mentor would teach them the basics of the economy (most important: don't use items above your (lack of) skills. I don't see how the general return rate could be moved higher, as MA isn't exactly profiting right now... allowing advertising might be an idea, but then again...didn't they do that already?
The other side of the bad loot is "No items". I have been hunting punies a lot since the missions came, and I love looting one of them rubios or azuros. They are -in tt- pretty worthless, but looting a gun like that allows me to keep hunting. Plus, as mentioned..it is just more fun to loot something useful than to get yet another bit of fragments I have no use for. Skilldeks too, are great to loot, despite the lack of ammo for them. Indeed, we need more items. Maybe even a (UL) armour? One with stats slightly below the TT set, but customizable. This means people could change there appearance. It's not only an armour, but a fashion statement!

Now, I was going to say that argo needs to drop more iron too, as the lower end mobs have been looting lower mu items, but I am not sure...isn't it possible the drop variables are the same, but the behaviour of users changed, thus resulting in other output? I mean; if you have a variable, and put in an entirely different input, you expect another output. With the missions, many who had passed the argo level may have moved back to argo, resulting in a different ratio of huntingped-divided-over-mobs. How could this NOT affect perceived loot??

And then the second issue, the no fun thing. Personally, I hate this argument, because I actually DO enjoy the game. But, it would be ostriching to deny the fact others may not. Someone complained about auto-aim...the solution is simple, don't use it. But...then you hurt you eco, so nobody is actually going to do that, right...? The best solution for this... STORYLINE. I saw a post the other day where someone said we have no storyline. Well, I think we do. Devs have picked up the old storyline and continue with it (seen the comic at login on PCF?). But I agree, it is not enough yet. The storyline has to be more engaging, and it has to affect us. Another game I played, the devs suddenly introduced an terrorist attack, disabling the "airport" feature. This made certain items impossible to acquire. The airport needed to be rebuilt, and donations were needed. The whole community banded together and got the job done!

No, I am not arguiing for donations here, but we do need events to be immersive. The last few events I did not join, because I don't have the ped to run around chasing big mobs. Well, I did some healing, but that's it. But just programme in a few events forcing players to improvise. Have something go wrong again in the storyline, and get bots (or mutants or whatever) conquer Twin.

Or have the CDF proclaim a new campaign to liberate Hadesheim from the bot invaders. Whatever. Give us a storyline. With small events as well as the big spawns. Because frankly, what are the big spawns other than "turn mob in LA x on" and one month later "turn mob in LA x off"?

Man, I typed a lot...

Game isn't even close to what it was in the beginning.

A game heavy influenced by gambling and everyone having the same "chance" of looting the big one is gone.

game have become a investment platform. *cough* deeds *cough*.

MA gets slammed in the face by people wanting them to admit the game was a casino. Peds removed etc from loot.

Look at mentoring. Random chance of item. Rework now states "stages" that u need certain amount of graduates to get a good ME item. I would guess Stage 2 is about 1k graduates stage 3 is 10k graduates. ( cause we all know MA always set the bar low * cough * tier upgrades * cough*.

Everyother MMO started out as a game where you needed to put in time and effort. EU started out as a casual game where everyone had the chance of looting the big one.

Now MMOs works towards casual fun and not time consuming. EU now demand longer hunts, more cycled peds. Longer online periods.

But it's all because MA won't admit this is a casino in the end.

Now, I was going to say that argo needs to drop more iron too, as the lower end mobs have been looting lower mu items, but I am not sure...isn't it possible the drop variables are the same, but the behaviour of users changed, thus resulting in other output? I mean; if you have a variable, and put in an entirely different input, you expect another output. With the missions, many who had passed the argo level may have moved back to argo, resulting in a different ratio of huntingped-divided-over-mobs. How could this NOT affect perceived loot??

Click to expand...

Yes people changes behaviour but I also believe the drop variables changed as well. When a mob gets mission players will hunt it no matter what, before we'd consider what things it dropped but now it's the tick box attitude players have that because a mob has a mission they have to finish the chain.

If mob only had specialist hunters MA can create a drop pattern for them that will keep them going but not flood that market. If because a mob suddenly gets a massive influx of new hunters because it has a mission then MA will reduce the drop rates so that the market isn't flooded.

So for example if before a mission the average for iron is 1 stone per 10 kills (not true representation) they may adjust the drop rate after the addition of a mission so that it's only 1 stone per 100 kills because there far more hunters killing the mob so that the amount entering the market stays the same. If the drop rates had stayed the same then we'd have iron become tt fodder. The same thing could be applied to the rate of globals and hofs.

Mining: In the past i would have suggested mining to a desciple due to mark ups and average returns over moderate/low turnover to be survivable. Now however loot swings and new mining distribution makes this yet another exercise in pain and relief (lose loads get it back eventually). After a break from EU every mining run i have done has made me raise my eyebrows at low return %... which means i mine only when i really need to as tt losses are to high. A friend ingame (sorry for using your figures) who is very well skilled did 8000 drops in lootable pvp (not on calypso tho) and came out with 6000 ped tt return..... 75% over 8000 drops.... (he did profit due to high mark up but still rake is to high over that turnover). Basically player need to feel they have a chance to break even (with mu) or they will stop.

Hunting: Punies with just ammo in loot and no oils etc means no mark up for new players on calypso (there are noob weaps lancehead etc but not really auctionable due to low tt). Low mobs have no armour drops like in old days, back then pixie parts rained down which even though most ended up in the tt it was nice to get them. Like others have said there is no "wow" factor for them imo. However hunting loot distribution tt wise does seem more even than in past as long as being economical.

Crafting Again needs major investment, or sitting on a mothership afk with auto-use tool. From a new players perspective another ped sink with very seldom profits.


Now being an RCE i realise ofc that people cannot profit more than they lose as Ma need to survive. However the rate at which ped is lost with new distributions needs to be looked at as far as mining is concerned, crafting to lesser extent. Lose,lose,lose,lose,lose,lose, win..... will not make players stay or play (although nice for the super uber big loot that drops to one guy). I've taken on 5 desciples last few months all quit in first month or so, even getting them involved in active societies etc, and tbh i am out of things to suggest to new guys so am stopping mentoring after last 1 has quit (he did log on very briefly 2 days ago so still hope ).

There have ofc been great things for new players also by all planets, freebies to starters, starter quests etc, starter packs. However loot distribution/make up is the big issue imo.

Just my opinions ofc

all the best Dibbler

Part of the appeal of EU was always 'hope', maybe my next run will be better. Hope and that feeling I might have a chance of getting ahead is what makes players push on.

The iron from argos and gazz from drones made a player feel that 'just maybe' they could get by on that MU. Even if under the hood it might not work like that, the player felt they had a chance getting a few regular peds MU.

Drone is a good example of MA's modern mindset, not only did they remove gazz, they changed the mob defence to force you into the group spawn. What happened drones hunting died.

I will never forget Levi hunting, it was extremely popular. So popular in fact that MA decided to kill it off by completely changing the attack. It's like every time a player finds something they enjoy doing, MA feels the need to stop it. They go out of their way to stop you enjoying yourself at nearly every opportunity.

They make everything harder all the time. Player used to say 'adapt or die', MA changed it so much that most players decided to choose die rather than adapt.

But all that doesn't matter anymore, you got an expensive ten year old aging cash cow, that is ever more thirsty for income. The game is now an investment bank, with aged players so desperate to get ahead they're prepared to invest huge sums, to attempt to take a bite of the investment market. They're not 'deed' really investors, they're gamers turned 'hopers' looking for an edge that was lost long ago (I see myself, when I say this).

I often wonder what will happen as the game continues to evolve with ever more deed issues surviving on even or decreasing player base. Maybe pets will reboot the players back into enjoying something new before it gets nerfed within a few months.

MA can save their cash cow, with trust and confidence. But you have to ask yourself this. Given the choice would you buy a 20K ped gun, or 20K of deeds that give automatic income and are easier to sell? What happens to the weapon market? You already seen what happens, the answer stares you in the face. So the crazy thing how does MA keep deeds and at the same time provide self belief that it is better to buy a 20K gun instead of deeds.

Now that you might have stopped to think about that, you realise the problem. The confidence in deeds is greater than the confidence in the core game play, but the deeds need the game. smiling here and laughing.

MA need an urgent rethink at how they make mobs enjoyable, not continuing stopping people enjoying themselves. But now they've gone eco everything they can only make peds I guess by making 'appear' harder. The devil ate his own apple.

Missions although great for ped burn changed the game from social hunting to individual hunting. How many players truly feel they are part of active hunting pack these days, rather than the grind grind grind. You can get so caught up in missions that you forget how to enjoy it, it becomes a long chore of boredom and depression.

That's why I'm keen on pets to hopefully bring back that social experience that feels so lost now for hardcore hunters.

Maybe it's just me getting old and bored of it all, or maybe I feel totally lost and don't no which way to turn.

thanks if you read all that, and it was good reading all the other long posts in this thread.

Rick

Wollongong said:

..snip.
Reading the above, there are TWO reasons identified by the community for the low retention rate:
1) Bad Loot
2) No fun
..snip.

Click to expand...

In my opinion, MA only really needs to improve (either) one of the two points, to achieve a better retention rate. Improving both would be nice too though

-If loot feels fair, then the game is more fun.
-If the game is fun, people care much less about bad loot.

(imho) MA needs to stop wasting man-hours on creating new content/investment schemes very few people care about, and spent those man-hours fixing long standing BUGS and LAG issues. Bugs and lag costs us time and $, and therefore decreases fun-factor, as well as the perceived fairness of loot. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone!

PS. @Rick I agree 100% with you. I also feel lost in EU, and have given up "hope for something nice" long ago. Initially this hopeless feeling arose when MA capped the multipliers so low. But it's the absurdly low item drop rate that made this feeling permanent.

Guarana said:

Game isn't even close to what it was in the beginning.

A game heavy influenced by gambling and everyone having the same "chance" of looting the big one is gone.

game have become a investment platform. *cough* deeds *cough*.

MA gets slammed in the face by people wanting them to admit the game was a casino. Peds removed etc from loot.

Look at mentoring. Random chance of item. Rework now states "stages" that u need certain amount of graduates to get a good ME item. I would guess Stage 2 is about 1k graduates stage 3 is 10k graduates. ( cause we all know MA always set the bar low * cough * tier upgrades * cough*.

Everyother MMO started out as a game where you needed to put in time and effort. EU started out as a casual game where everyone had the chance of looting the big one.

Now MMOs works towards casual fun and not time consuming. EU now demand longer hunts, more cycled peds. Longer online periods.

But it's all because MA won't admit this is a casino in the end.

Click to expand...

#As long as it is to be at the " right place at the right time " to get bigger loot is the game casino for me because it has nothing do do what skill you have or what gear you use or what investment you done.

#As long a weak animal gives better loot then a strong animal in average income against your expenses is the game poorly "balanced ".

#As long i stand in front of 200 atrox and know that the atrox can give me 2 ped in loot but also that it can give me 90k peds is the game is a "lottery " for me.

RickEngland said:

Part of the appeal of EU was always 'hope', maybe my next run will be better. Hope and that feeling I might have a chance of getting ahead is what makes players push on.

The iron from argos and gazz from drones made a player feel that 'just maybe' they could get by on that MU. Even if under the hood it might not work like that, the player felt they had a chance getting a few regular peds MU.

Drone is a good example of MA's modern mindset, not only did they remove gazz, they changed the mob defence to force you into the group spawn. What happened drones hunting died.

I will never forget Levi hunting, it was extremely popular. So popular in fact that MA decided to kill it off by completely changing the attack. It's like every time a player finds something they enjoy doing, MA feels the need to stop it. They go out of their way to stop you enjoying yourself at nearly every opportunity.

They make everything harder all the time. Player used to say 'adapt or die', MA changed it so much that most players decided to choose die rather than adapt.

But all that doesn't matter anymore, you got an expensive ten year old aging cash cow, that is ever more thirsty for income. The game is now an investment bank, with aged players so desperate to get ahead they're prepared to invest huge sums, to attempt to take a bite of the investment market. They're not 'deed' really investors, they're gamers turned 'hopers' looking for an edge that was lost long ago (I see myself, when I say this).

I often wonder what will happen as the game continues to evolve with ever more deed issues surviving on even or decreasing player base. Maybe pets will reboot the players back into enjoying something new before it gets nerfed within a few months.

MA can save their cash cow, with trust and confidence. But you have to ask yourself this. Given the choice would you buy a 20K ped gun, or 20K of deeds that give automatic income and are easier to sell? What happens to the weapon market? You already seen what happens, the answer stares you in the face. So the crazy thing how does MA keep deeds and at the same time provide self belief that it is better to buy a 20K gun instead of deeds.

Now that you might have stopped to think about that, you realise the problem. The confidence in deeds is greater than the confidence in the core game play, but the deeds need the game. smiling here and laughing.

MA need an urgent rethink at how they make mobs enjoyable, not continuing stopping people enjoying themselves. But now they've gone eco everything they can only make peds I guess by making 'appear' harder. The devil ate his own apple.

Missions although great for ped burn changed the game from social hunting to individual hunting. How many players truly feel they are part of active hunting pack these days, rather than the grind grind grind. You can get so caught up in missions that you forget how to enjoy it, it becomes a long chore of boredom and depression.

That's why I'm keen on pets to hopefully bring back that social experience that feels so lost now for hardcore hunters.

Maybe it's just me getting old and bored of it all, or maybe I feel totally lost and don't no which way to turn.

thanks if you read all that, and it was good reading all the other long posts in this thread.

Rick

Click to expand...

What RickEngland wrote..
" I will never forget Levi hunting, it was extremely popular. So popular in fact that MA decided to kill it off by completely changing the attack. It's like every time a player finds something they enjoy doing, MA feels the need to stop it. They go out of their way to stop you enjoying yourself at nearly every opportunity."


This is precisely why I never write anything positive in this forum although I find some things that are positive because I know what will happen in the end.

The thing is for me and most of my friends its well a hassle to have fun togheter now. When I started out teamhunts, sochunts and other weird stuff was happening al the time every damn day.
Now im grinding. Its not really hard to just quit straight of the bat anymore it was before.

I paused EU for almost 7 months cause real life is keeping me busy and I just dont see exciting/addicting opportunities in EU anymore, the forum looks also pretty dead and every new day it´s getting less interesting.

The thing alive in here is the trade section, nothing more, but that´s just a marginal note from myself.

I guess EU/PE has a "little", stealthy burn-out syndrome - maybe normal for a game this old, everyone claims to know how the system works and how to do this and that, the magic from older days fades away with every step, every skillpoint we take and make.

MindArk advertises it as unique RCE, so they have to bear positive and negative signals from the playerbase, cause money rules the world, unfortunately.

Beware, thats just my point of view.