Big Problem with In game shops and apartments etc

the main problem in this game, is NOBODY knows what type of inventory is sold in which shops, and where they are located. I would love to go shopping in the games malls and try to find items I'm looking for, but there is so much ground to cover, calypso is a big place, I wouldn't know where to start. same with apartments, I don't know which ones are for sale where for how much. this shouldn't be hard to implement for the game or fix, a website, in game directory, something.

It's the primary reason most people don't use the shops... It takes hours to go through all the shops.

+1 to PLEASE ADD A SHOP DIRECTORY / SEARCH

Not saying that the system doesnt need help, but shopowners are lazy.
I have had two separate disciples (i think the first was disciple i forget now) who became soc mates (this was a few years apart from each other) who bought shops and worked hard at stocking and advertising and keeping stocked and satisfying return customers.

They each did Ks of ped turnover a day in regular (L0-50ish L items).
I am convinced that hard work and dedication is enough to make a shop successful since it wasn't just one person at one time, but two separate people at two separate times with the work ethic to make something so successful.

While a directory would be nice for owners and customers alike, I also wonder if it wouldn't be unfair to those who are actually willing to make something of themselves through hard work?

narfi said:

Not saying that the system doesnt need help, but shopowners are lazy.
I have had two separate disciples (i think the first was disciple i forget now) who became soc mates (this was a few years apart from each other) who bought shops and worked hard at stocking and advertising and keeping stocked and satisfying return customers.

They each did Ks of ped turnover a day in regular (L0-50ish L items).
I am convinced that hard work and dedication is enough to make a shop successful since it wasn't just one person at one time, but two separate people at two separate times with the work ethic to make something so successful.

While a directory would be nice for owners and customers alike, I also wonder if it wouldn't be unfair to those who are actually willing to make something of themselves through hard work?

Click to expand...

Shops on other planets, FOMA, and some other places can work well simply because the people there are forced to use them since the auction seldom has what they need. I've owned successful shops and have helped others become successful shop owners so I know that you are right about it requiring a lot of work... And that's part of the problem because there aren't many people who are willing to log into a video game to do "work" because most of us are here to wind down after work, relax, and have fun.

There needs to be a directory of items in shops at the auctioneer, where people can pay 0.25 PED for a waypoint to the shop. This will help get stuff sold and give incentives to shop owners on all planets to do the work required to keep stuff stocked.

On top of that, the buying process can easily be automated by creating something similar to a shopkeeper, but for buying and not selling, that functions a lot like auction orders but also works with (L) items instead of just stackables and unlimited items.

Doing these simple things will cause a small boom for the EU economy and increase the demand for shops themselves probably to the point where MindArk could justify auctioning more shops.

HardWrath said:

Shops on other planets, FOMA, and some other places can work well simply because the people there are forced up to use them since the auction seldom has what they need. I've owned successful shops and have helped others become successful shop owners so I know that you are right about it requiring a lot of work... And that's part of the problem because there aren't many people who are willing to log into a video game to do "work" because most of us are here to wind down after work, relax, and have fun.

There needs to be a directory of items in shops at the auctioneer, where people can pay 0.25 PED for a waypoint to the shop. This will help get stuff sold and give incentives to shop owners on all planets to do the work required to keep stuff stocked.

On top of that, the buying process can easily be automated by creating something similar to a shopkeeper, but for buying and not selling, that functions a lot like auction orders but also works with (L) items instead of just stackables and unlimited items.

Doing these simple things will cause a small boom for the EU economy and increase the demand for shops themselves probably to the point where MindArk could justify auctioning more shops.

Click to expand...

well said and thought out hardwrath, +1 rep. I really hope MA looks into this. It would be SO crucial and important to improving the game and the game's economy. It's a win for sure for MA, more people would want to buy shops because they have a use, they would purchase more PED to buy shops, more people would want to buy things from the shops and would buy more PED also.

It wouldn't be that hard to do either, to implement this.

narfi said:

Not saying that the system doesnt need help, but shopowners are lazy.
I have had two separate disciples (i think the first was disciple i forget now) who became soc mates (this was a few years apart from each other) who bought shops and worked hard at stocking and advertising and keeping stocked and satisfying return customers.

They each did Ks of ped turnover a day in regular (L0-50ish L items).
I am convinced that hard work and dedication is enough to make a shop successful since it wasn't just one person at one time, but two separate people at two separate times with the work ethic to make something so successful.

While a directory would be nice for owners and customers alike, I also wonder if it wouldn't be unfair to those who are actually willing to make something of themselves through hard work?

Click to expand...

"who bought shops and worked hard at stocking and advertising and keeping stocked and satisfying return customers."

this part of your quote I see as the main problem, people don't see the incentive to be active and try to advertise, because the structure of the game itself makes it too hard for people to find the malls/shops to shop in so why bother working on your shop.

My point is that it is not too hard.
It is just too hard for lazy people.
I am against rewarding lazy people for their laziness.

mightymax99 said:

"who bought shops and worked hard at stocking and advertising and keeping stocked and satisfying return customers."

this part of your quote I see as the main problem, people don't see the incentive to be active and try to advertise, because the structure of the game itself makes it too hard for people to find the malls/shops to shop in so why bother working on your shop.

Click to expand...

Hmm strange, I never had this problem.... I just went to the malls, walked in, and looked around. If I noticed a shop with something that I needed I would go there first next time. They are really not that hard to find, unless I missunderstood what your saying?

Having said that, a mall directory would be nice and has been asked for several times. Maybe it's on their list of things to do? Maybe a mobile app?

I agree, the issue with finding the right shop then spending time to get to it can be a hassle. It sucks when you find a good shop for what you like to buy, but when you get there, the item you're looking for is sold out, or the market has changed and the price hasn't been adjusted. I solely use the auction unless what I'm looking for is unreasonable.

As for a directory, I like the idea. But rather than having customers pay a fee, just have the shop owners pay to have their name in the directory, like yellow pages. A customer can open the interface, and select a category, say, weapons shops. If a shop owner pays a small fee, their name populates on a list showing their location. Perhaps take it a step further and have a description for each shop (data from owners) and what they're selling. I'd become a regular browser if there was a directory.

narfi said:

My point is that it is not too hard.
It is just too hard for lazy people.
I am against rewarding lazy people for their laziness.

Click to expand...

Even with a shop directory and other features, the shop owners who work the hardest will always be the most successful. My point is that things need to be easier for the sake of the customer.

TheLastKnight said:

I agree, the issue with finding the right shop then spending time to get to it can be a hassle. It sucks when you find a good shop for what you like to buy, but when you get there, the item you're looking for is sold out, or the market has changed and the price hasn't been adjusted. I solely use the auction unless what I'm looking for is unreasonable.

As for a directory, I like the idea. But rather than having customers pay a fee, just have the shop owners pay to have their name in the directory, like yellow pages. A customer can open the interface, and select a category, say, weapons shops. If a shop owner pays a small fee, their name populates on a list showing their location. Perhaps take it a step further and have a description for each shop (data from owners) and what they're selling. I'd become a regular browser if there was a directory.

Click to expand...

This would kinda be like the auction we have now though?! I think half the fun in entropia is going out there to find these little gems. A reward for hard work I guess.. If they advertise, like Narfi mentioned, then people would know what and where to find the items they want. Most times the shop owners will take orders and carry stuff you would like to buy. More community interaction instead of a solo game.

Nor Alien said:

This would kinda be like the auction we have now though?! I think half the fun in entropia is going out there to find these little gems. A reward for hard work I guess.. If they advertise, like Narfi mentioned, then people would know what and where to find the items they want. Most times the shop owners will take orders and carry stuff you would like to buy. More community interaction instead of a solo game.

Click to expand...

the auction creates shops prices at all time lows. The shop's sell threads are constantly bumped with no buyers. I'm guilty as well, I sell a lot and trade constantly and always on auction because of the convenience. (so does 95% of the planets) Why would I even consider buying a shop even at it's current ultra low prices if I'm going to stock it with inventory but will get no customers or sales? I don't quite get what your saying, it doesn't feel very social when in every major city everyone is just standing around the auctioneer not talking....

with the right implementation you could have all kinds of fun and interesting shops to visit. shops that specialize in pets, or gear, or minerals or ores, instead of just people standing around teleporters spamming their merchandise.

mightymax99 said:

The shop's sell threads are constantly bumped with no buyers.

Click to expand...

No offense... but bumping a forum thread is not advertising.
You have to interact with your customers where your customers hang out.
You have to be 'one of them'
You have to understand them
You have to help them
You have to teach them
Then you teach them to rely on your shop
Then they teach others to rely on your shop
Then you reap the rewards of your labor

narfi said:

No offense... but bumping a forum thread is not advertising.
You have to interact with your customers where your customers hang out.
You have to be 'one of them'
You have to understand them
You have to help them
You have to teach them
Then you teach them to rely on your shop
Then they teach others to rely on your shop
Then you reap the rewards of your labor

Click to expand...

none taken narf
What your describing though is not how a true business or shop works in the real world. Your describing a small town population 100 where your the local grocery store and you know everyone by name. Any major store, walmart or best buy or anything really isn't going to try to hang out too much with their customer, they are going to be known for selling something and people know to go there to buy it. Entropia has a GREAT community and that's why I play it for the maturity but if the game is every going to be more successful it will need more players and more of a scale and think bigger, the small town scale model will have trouble growing. People say they want more players, the ability to run your own version of a small business in a virtual world for people who don't have the capital in the real world to start a business would be unique and definitely attract more people. this is a RCE game why not give it all the advantages of an RCE game.

In personal life I do deal in business as a cfo and economist of a corp and it pains me sometimes to see such a great game that I love just inches away from easy low hanging fruit fixes. adding a stock market to the game would take a lot of planning and be very complex but fixing already existing shops to be useful would be really easy to fix. apartments are not really a problem, they are there for those who want them but shops need help

someone sent me this link in private message:

It's on the right track the problem though is that this isn't updated very regularly is it? Is this an updated daily list? Looks empty

Shop Stock



http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Shop&id=233

I am very much in favour of some form of shop directory/ shop inventory interface to make it easier for customers to find what they want but in the meanwhile....

If you want to run a successful business in EU out of a shop then you need to find a way to drive new customers to your shop and keep them coming back. The onus is on you as the business owner. Don't wait for MA to solve your problems.

This will involve
1. product choices - stocking ur shop with random stuff you looted is unlikely to work out for you. A shop that tries to sell everything generally sells nothing. It's better to establish what people want to buy and focus on that. It makes marketing and customer retention a lot easier. So I have a shop that focuses on weapons and related gear, another shop that focuses on armour and related gear. I tend to stay with Arkadian stuff for various reasons. I've made a decision to stay out of the mining equipment market.

2. effective marketing - this can be difficult within the mechanics of EU but it can include:
- establishing a brand and making it visible through in game advertising, forums and social networking,
- shop exterior presentation, Shop location and visibility can be very important. You want passing people to see your shop and you want them to quickly know what you are selling without them having to go in. A strong brand can help here as well as exterior display and signage.
- hiring of hawkers to tout for you.
- customer referrals. Personally one of the most effective forms of marketing I have found is recommendations from existing customers. I frequently get contact from people saying someone in their soc suggested they come to me to buy product x.

3. customer service experience - Make it easy for your customers to deal with you. I lay my shop contents out so it is easy to find the items someone is looking for. I maintain a spreadsheet that is generally up to date with my complete inventory so if someone contacts me and asks, I can tell them if an item is in stock, how much it will cost, where they will find it. I'm open to feedback and will discuss pricing decisions (that doesn't necessarily mean I will change the price). If a customer has a good experience and sees there is a reliable and consistent supply they will keep coming back and they will tell their friends.

I thought the comments above about comparing EU businesses to small town grocery stores and to major stores were quite interesting. My view is that we are running small businesses and there are huge hurdles to scaling up to the equivalent of a department store or walmart or whatever, as the game mechanics make it very difficult to operate as anything other than a sole operator. I'm not saying it can't be done. I could hire lots of crafters to supply me but a single shop only has a limited capacity, the time taken to manage multiple shops (I have 4) can be quite significant and the game interface imposes a significant effort in doing that. I could hire shop managers but there is a lot of trust required there and no recourse to legal remedies if it all goes to shit.

So in terms of working with the EU world as it is, the small business model is a good way to go.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

imagine if we were to have this directory. where you could search items of interest > wouldn't it be cool if the shop-owners could buy a 'micro teleporter' so people could use the directory to tp people straight into their shop from anywhere on the planet? MA should love this as these tps could be a few k ped and work similarly in placement to a shopkeeper for example.

combined these two things would eradicate lots of current shop problems

I would definitely like to see an in-game directory. I'm one of those people who just wants to know what's out there, but the way some of the shops are set up, it's like going through a maze and many shops are empty, so I find myself just wasting time if I go from shop to shop to browse.

I don't see how a directory would benefit lazy shop owners. In RL you have the ability to look up who sells what and where, but in the sea of so many people selling the same thing, a shop owner would have to do something more to stand out in a crowd. Like if I see 20 people selling the same thing in a directory, I'm not just going with the first name I see. I'm going to do further research. Does one ad stand out more than another? Do they have a website I can browse? do they have more details about what they sell or what service they provide? What have other customers said about them? I will end up going to whomever has done the best job to advertise and promote their business and who has the best reputation.

But the point is I would need some place to start and the directory would be just the ticket. I would also love it if waypoints could be provided. Places like Twin Peaks mall etc. are easy enough to find a shop in, but there are other shops that are such a headache to find because of the layout.

narfi said:

No offense... but bumping a forum thread is not advertising.
You have to interact with your customers where your customers hang out.
You have to be 'one of them'
You have to understand them
You have to help them
You have to teach them
Then you teach them to rely on your shop
Then they teach others to rely on your shop
Then you reap the rewards of your labor

Click to expand...

Narfi is correct on this to a large degree. This is why we (SFE) have a presence in more than just one place. We have threads on both PCF and PAF, a website and a monthly newsletter on top of our network of contacts and multiple shops. We even ran our own private forums for a while....However, it is a lot of hard work, especially if you have a RL job and life to factor in as well

And we still struggle mainly because the interface and the layout of the malls is crap, the global advertising system is a total waste of time and ped (due to lack of any type of useful content) and we are constantly trying to fight the market history of items WHICH DOESN"T TAKE SHOP OR BOOTH sales history into account, nor P2P trades (which imo is just bloody stupid).

Hard work only get you so far, organisation and location only get you so far. The rest is fighting against a system that is badly in need of a rethink and revamp. An in game directory would be just part of this and is long overdue IMO

ACEwoK said:

Narfi is correct on this to a large degree. This is why we (SFE) have a presence in more than just one place. We have threads on both PCF and PAF, a website and a monthly newsletter on top of our network of contacts and multiple shops. We even ran our own private forums for a while....However, it is a lot of hard work, especially if you have a RL job and life to factor in as well

And we still struggle mainly because the interface and the layout of the malls is crap, the global advertising system is a total waste of time and ped (due to lack of any type of useful content) and we are constantly trying to fight the market history of items WHICH DOESN"T TAKE SHOP OR BOOTH sales history into account, nor P2P trades (which imo is just bloody stupid).

Hard work only get you so far, organisation and location only get you so far. The rest is fighting against a system that is badly in need of a rethink and revamp. An in game directory would be just part of this and is long overdue IMO

Click to expand...

exactly. a lot of hard work with little reward. needs to be revamped

mightymax99 said:

"who bought shops and worked hard at stocking and advertising and keeping stocked and satisfying return customers."

this part of your quote I see as the main problem, people don't see the incentive to be active and try to advertise, because the structure of the game itself makes it too hard for people to find the malls/shops to shop in so why bother working on your shop.

Click to expand...

There are ways around that. I have made videos showing how to get to my shops and posted them on YouTube. From there I have embedded them in my website. I use planet ad terminals and always link my site in them.

To your point, location is key also. I have considered buying a shop in Genesis Headquarters for example... but I even get turned around there when going to my apartment - there is no way I would expect people to find my shop there.

Location and Advertising... but I think mostly advertising is the important factor. Once they know what you have they will return if they want to buy again.

ACEwoK said:

we are constantly trying to fight the market history of items WHICH DOESN"T TAKE SHOP OR BOOTH sales history into account, nor P2P trades (which imo is just bloody stupid).

Click to expand...

P2P sales could be difficult to track. Consider these scenarios:

- I loan a 100 ped full TT sword (TT+5000) to a long time friend. The system sees a sale for -100, which changes the market rate. The friend uses it for awhile and then when he is done, he gives it back half decayed, and an additional 50 ped to cover the decay. The system now sees another sale for -100.

- Market Manipulator loots an item that is currently TT +500. He wants to get as much ped out of it as he can, so he inflates the market rate by getting his friend to give him 10,000 ped in trade for his item. With no auction fees, they do this transaction many times to manipulate the market rate. On the other hand, it could be a legit sale if that item stopped dropping permanently and became more rare.

- It would be difficult to track trades of multiple items.

You could put in some cap that wouldn't allow these trades to happen (say, 2x or half an item/stack value) or that the system wouldn't flag them as legitimate sales, but that would cripple free trade, and people will find ways to push those limits anyway.

mikaile said:

There are ways around that. I have made videos showing how to get to my shops and posted them on YouTube. From there I have embedded them in my website. I use planet ad terminals and always link my site in them.

To your point, location is key also. I have considered buying a shop in Genesis Headquarters for example... but I even get turned around there when going to my apartment - there is no way I would expect people to find my shop there.

Location and Advertising... but I think mostly advertising is the important factor. Once they know what you have they will return if they want to buy again.

Click to expand...

its just too difficult to find information about what is where

mightymax99 said:

its just too difficult to find information about what is where

Click to expand...

One day on ark, I happed too look at an advertisement on the screen. It happened too be something I wanted.

I went too the shop several times, saving up PED for the item. On my visits, I happens too meet the shop owner, who was very friendly and gave a newbie a tour.

I bought what I wanted...

Now whenever a soc mate or a random player is looking for the item(s), I send them too this shop.

After you bounced off a few 100 doorways you kinda give up on the malls, unless you are a door bouncing off enthusiast obviously.

Or for crafters who like to be alone as they sure are like ghost towns mostly.

Currently MA can't even send messages when items are sold so we can keep track of intergalactic sales. A list of shops with items in each would not work atm.

When you want to find a shop you can.
Just you need a little effort. It's a pleasent adventure.

Shop owners can do many things for their firm, if they doing their job with pleasure and professionalism.
I don't think a shop directory system will work for the benefit of the customers/residents either for the shop owners.

I visited shops,(few I can confess), who their owners, obviously, like what they doing and the only obstacle for them are... their "bugged" estates/areas. Even in remote or somehow "hidden" places.
I must agree with Narfi for the laziness!
The majority of the ppl who buying shops, they don't have a real plan and also are lazy.
You can't own a shop, just to sell your loot or to visited once every 3-6 months!!!
That's not the right way to do it and after a while you are going to regret for making such an investment.
Because the ppl who are going to come once to see, in most cases they aren't going to come second time to lose their time.
Exception might be someone who play for fun and doesn't care for losing money.

Having a shop with success is a field for true professionals and it can be successive without any systems in game. Only thing needed is to be "bugged free"!!!

Butch C v.2 said:

After you bounced off a few 100 doorways you kinda give up on the malls, unless you are a door bouncing off enthusiast obviously.

Or for crafters who like to be alone as they sure are like ghost towns mostly.

Click to expand...

ya I have had this same experience also. TRYING TO SHOP in mall and just basically bouncing around from one empty place to the next with no inventory to buy

jqkill said:

+1 to PLEASE ADD A SHOP DIRECTORY / SEARCH

Click to expand...

Come to think of it. This is an awesome idea!

+1 FOR MARKET TERMINAL TO BROWSE ALL SHOPS AND SHOPKEEPERS