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price check for following items please

I just checked on Entropedia, the TT value of the Aakas is only 130 PED. I would need 6 or 7 of those for a normal run.. not 3 or 4 like I thought. I cant imagine tiering all of those at the same time. Even at low tiers, tier 3 for example has taken me probably 6K - 7K cycled to bring a blade from 3.0 to 3.3 and thats with a great tier increase rate of over 100... as is pointed out above, it costs substantially more on each higher tier level.

I understand that not everyone cares about tiering, that's fine, grab an amp, get a couple of Aakas or Shagadi, and go do your thing. If it works for you then do it, but for those of you with 3-5 of the same blade, each with its own hotkey, its probably time to upgrade.
 
I'm using Songkra Dagger T4 + amp VI.
Had 2 daggers but sold the other when the portable repairs came.

If u really hate your pedcard, you can [buy firefly and] throw 16k out of the window to get the ability to bleed more peds forever (lower dpp and lower dps). On the bright side you don't have to click the repair button during the hunt.

Well, lets be serious. It's all a question of how stupid can ppl get. Pretty stupid, i suppose... :silly2:
 
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It's all a matter of how you want to adapt to hunt. With a 5k budget you can get great eco and dps - IF YOU HAVE THE SKILLS. 3 x ark blades + iv amp can give you 500 ped hunts with no repairs, but its up to the individual person, if they wanna do amp and hotkey swaps during hunts.
With a 15k budget you dont need to face the annoying repairs, amp swap, tier problems and lvl 40-50 skil req. and this is again up to the individual hunter, if these issues are worth the 10k extra.
I can see the bonuses in both!
I agree with Hardwrath, in his points about tiering. But if you focus on 500 ped, low budget, high dps+eco hunts, melee can be done VERY cheap after introduction of amps!

Back to pricecheck. The bonuses of one UL sib, high tt blade, are definetly worth the extra peds, if your budget is able to take it. My personel value of Firefly and Dragons Breath is 10-12k t. 0, and then add tier costs.
 
Fifth said:
I'm using Songkra Dagger T4 + amp VI.
Had 2 daggers but sold the other when the portable repairs came.

If u really hate your pedcard, you can throw 16k out of the window to get the ability to bleed more peds forever (lower dpp). On the bright side you don't have to click the repair button during the hunt.

Well, lets be serious. It's all a question of how stupid can ppl get. Pretty stupid, i suppose... :silly2:
Click to expand...

If you really want to talk about Eco, you need to look at more than just DPP because with Melee, DPS is a much larger factor then in any other profession simply due to defensive costs.

If you are killing the mob from start to finish with melee, that mob gets to sit there the whole time and chew on you. So, if you are increasing your DPS, you are also decreasing your defensive costs.

For example, a 1000 PED Melee run on Feffox Provider and Guardian.... That's a lot of armor decay. Now increase your DPS by 40% or 50%.... Your armor decay will decrease by about the same percentage, plus think of all the mob health regeneration you save on.

So, tiering a blade and using that extra DPS at the right times has real cost saving benefits.
 
HardWrath said:
If you really want to talk about Eco, you need to look at more than just DPP because with Melee, DPS is a much larger factor then in any other profession simply due to defensive costs.

If you are killing the mob from start to finish with melee, that mob gets to sit there the whole time and chew on you. So, if you are increasing your DPS, you are also decreasing your defensive costs.

For example, a 1000 PED Melee run on Feffox Provider and Guardian.... That's a lot of armor decay. Now increase your DPS by 40% or 50%.... Your armor decay will decrease by about the same percentage, plus think of all the mob health regeneration you save on.

So, tiering a blade and using that extra DPS at the right times has real cost saving benefits.
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Yes, ranged weapons Vs. melee can't be compared without taking into account defensive cost.
I was responding to the discussion about "old Caly melee Vs. new Ark melee" in general and "FireFly Vs. Songkra" specifically (both at Tier 4):

firefly-songkra.jpg


Portable repair is new stuff, many ppl don't even know it exists. If u bind it to a key it takes less than 2 sec to click "all weapons" and "all armors". Yes, you will have to do it often, the higher the tier gets, the less the blade will last. Yes, you are not used to it at 1st.

Then again, I'm usually healing between mobs and not using my biggest fap for that (because of eco). Pumping up 200+ HP takes a lot longer than repairs, but nobody would advice you to buy bigger armor so you could sell your fap and never heal again - to save time and make it more convenient, right? ;)

It's all about habits, and perception.
 
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Fifth said:
Yes, ranged weapons Vs. melee can't be compared without taking into account defensive cost.
I was responding to the discussion about "old Caly melee Vs. new Ark melee" in general and "FireFly Vs. Songkra" specifically (both at Tier 4):

firefly-songkra.jpg


Portable repair is new stuff, many ppl don't even know it exists. If u bind it to a key it takes less than 2 sec to click "all weapons" and "all armors". Yes, you will have to do it often, the higher the tier gets, the less the blade will last. Yes, you are not used to it at 1st.

Then again, I'm usually healing between mobs and not using my biggest fap for that (because of eco). Pumping up 200+ HP takes a lot longer than repairs, but nobody would advice you to buy bigger armor so you could sell your fap and never heal again - to save time and make it more convenient, right? ;)

It's all about habits, and perception.
Click to expand...

What is extra cost of repairing in the field, rather than repair terminal?
 
I gues it's about your hunting style. If you want to grind for 2+ hours nonstop go for higher tt. If you don't mind using portable repair every 30-45 mins go for the lower tt and cheaper blades.

I'd def. go for the cheaper low tt ones. 1k or 12k for blade with close to same dps/dpp is an easy choice since i max both.
 
My 2 cents on this...

I use Aakas Dagger tier 3 + IV amp, its a 3.5k ped combo, give or take.

The dagger gives me 62.03 dps and 2.942 dpp, i need to repair it each 162 ped cycled.

For me this is perfect, i usually do quick runs, and if i want longer i always have portable repair with me, or i adapt my hunt to be close to revival.

For me it also works as a failsafe, if i reach repair point, and realise loot has sucked, its time to quit for some time, if id had bigger tt i may not realise loot is bad until i went too far.

If loot is great, well i just repair and keep going.
 
some math

I been skilling now whit aakas fire dagger + iv amp and meany ppl seems to think that using repair terminal is somewhat uneco or hard. so here is some facts

Fire dagger Has 2.953 economy whit IV amp

To break Fire dagger whit IV amp on it costs 172,75ped whit (no enchancers) and that me means whit 1 full TT repair terminal you can cycle 172,75ped x 299 = 51652,25ped

one repair terminal cost around 32ped.s

---Argo Scava elite 1200HP---

Aakas fire dagger - 1200/2,953=406,366pecs
now to some hunting Lets say we are hunting Argo scava elites - whit Firedagger + iv amp it costs around 406pec to kill one argo

1200/2,926=410,116 pecs
Now whit ranked knife(no enhancers) 2,926 eco - one argo scava elite costs to kill 410pecs

So that means whit fire dagger you save around 4pecs per kill and that means every 3 kills you get free use of portable repair terminal and even save few pecs in process :) these ar number facts!
 
Killahbee said:
I gues it's about your hunting style. If you want to grind for 2+ hours nonstop go for higher tt. If you don't mind using portable repair every 30-45 mins go for the lower tt and cheaper blades.
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If i wanted to grind 2+ hours nonstop i would... use portable repair terminal AND portable TT terminal. That's the only way how u can keep hunting out in the wilderness forever.

The Times They Are A-Changin'...
 
HardWrath said:
I just checked on Entropedia, the TT value of the Aakas is only 130 PED. I would need 6 or 7 of those for a normal run.. not 3 or 4 like I thought. I cant imagine tiering all of those at the same time. Even at low tiers, tier 3 for example has taken me probably 6K - 7K cycled to bring a blade from 3.0 to 3.3 and thats with a great tier increase rate of over 100... as is pointed out above, it costs substantially more on each higher tier level.
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Stop being a lazy slob and get a portable repair terminal from auction.
 
From my perspective as a longterm Melee User, the way the Melee market develops is great. Basically we have 4 clusters of Melee weapons so far:

Low tt but auctionable - Ark Blades
These are great Blades. Excellent eco and dps, though tough level requirements compared to their levels. With the portable repair units these blades become great and are undervalued at the moment. Not everyone likes to carry more than one primary weapon, but with shortkeys and repair they are a great option if you like short hunts or do not want to fork out thousands of PED for a good weapon. Anyway as they all are capable to carry amps i think they will raise in price. At the moment it is the cheapest way to get huge dps with good eco especially if you have some Melee skills for the higher level blades.

Decent TT, not auctionable - Cyrene blades
The Ranked blades these are nice powerful weapons. The Cyrene dev team took a different approach to control inflating values on them: Prohibit auction for them. Therefore these Blades are also undervalued and now with amps will raise in price imho. You can get cheap dps, decent eco AND a good TT without need to repair them every 1/2h of your hunting session. For users who use them for a long time and do not plan to sell it it is a great investment. These are capable of amps and provide decent TT for okayish level requirements combined with good eco.

Decent to high TT, auctionable - Caly blades and Cyrene Ozpyn series, Arkadia Manta/Mako (...)
The ozpyn series are imho undervalued atm. They are ampable with good eco and decent TT value to make good runs. I bought my RSBS1X2 for TT+550 PED now with my Trauma IV that is ~40dps unenhanced @ 2.941dpp. Makes it a great skilling combo up to my Ranked Combat knife. While i think the price of the Ozpyn blades will raise because they are so cheap now the opposite might be the case for the high priced Calypsian blades that are out of snyc in MU with more recent Blades. Mostly the lvl 30-50 Blades. People will see there are cheap alternatives and even if Non auctionable or low TT is not for everyone it will be for some and that means lower demand on these blades and a stronger tendency to drop in price. This won't probably affect the higher level ones, as at this point of time there are no equivalent powerful blades atm. ( Arc Spark and above )

Unampable, Low TT NI Blades
How these will develop mostly depends if they might become ampable in future or not. As it is now they are still decent blades with excellent eco and dps. However with the other blades ampable and these not i think they will at best stagnate in price, as the Cat 1 might be the better option for users who want to get an amp and this group has a high availability.

At the moment we see the first shift in market since Melee Amps are available. For a lot of people Melee becomes a great option now. The close combat disadvantage of high defensive decay can be compensated somewhat by a good tagger and leads to better defense+paramedic skills + more hp. So not everyone percieves the higher defensive decay as a disadvantage per se. And even with ranged weapons a lot of combat happens in close combat anyway.

With more people buying Melee we will see a consolidation of the prices in the different groups somewhat faster. Which means overvalued group 3 might consolidate due to the good availability of the yet undervalued newer blades and align prices accordingly due to their power and in consideration of their disadvantages ( low TT, non auc ) which are a highly subjective matter of being percieved as disadvantage.

People will ask themself why pay 15k for 60dps @ >2.9 dpp when they can get it for <5k. But yet not everyone has realized the impact of Melee amps yet and how Melee gameplay changed due to amps. Not even everyone realized what great blades are available meanwhile due to different planets. So it will take some time for the market to react and to adapt to the new situation. During time Melee amps will become cheaper when more are available that will make Melee an even better alternative.
 
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wow a lot of good information thanks guys i kinda have my mind made up as to which way I am heading but before i do where does a manta k5 smuggler stand in all of this?
 
remontoire said:
Stop being a lazy slob and get a portable repair terminal from auction.
Click to expand...

I have a portable repair and portable TT terminal.. I am a lazy slob though.. in fact I'm so lazy that when I'm at a service center, instead of walking over and using the TT or Repair Terminal, I'll often just use the portable ones.

Rattler Llama said:
What is extra cost of repairing in the field, rather than repair terminal?
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The costs of using the portable TT and portable repair are minimal... a non issue really.

The real costs and downsides of low TT blades mostly center around tiering, most of which has already been discussed. That aside, its simply a hassle to continuously repair. People who grind or even hunt for a couple hours strait often are partially distracted by IRL such as the TV or other members of the household. As a result, it becomes a problem if your weapon is continuously breaking.
 
TeesMaarKhan said:
wow a lot of good information thanks guys i kinda have my mind made up as to which way I am heading but before i do where does a manta k5 smuggler stand in all of this?
Click to expand...

The Manta K5 Smuggler is around the dps and dpp of the Ranked Combat Knife, Aakas Fire Dagger, and Genesis Firefly. The maximum TT is 1800 ped which is more than enough for a long hunting run. The huge advantage with the Manta K5 Smuggler is that you can use it at a lower level then the others because the SIB starts at only level 22, which means that it will be maxed by level 27. For people who are already at a higher skill level, that advantage doesn't matter I guess. The K-5 usually sells for a premium price.
 
HardWrath said:
Well, would you really put a 6K ped amp on a 500 PED blade?
Click to expand...

Why not? What is the combined cost for Ranked Combat Knife + IV amp?

Songkra with VI amp works like a charm, and I have no trouble repairing it a few times every hunt. The higher eco makes up for some of that I guess, not to mention the superior dps.

HardWrath said:
The reality is that the people who can afford to buy a Trauma IV and especially the Trauma VI can also afford to buy a blade with a useable TT value.

No one wants to sit their with their dick in their hand, trying to repair a blade with a portable repair unit, while an Eomon is chewing their face off.
Click to expand...

Well, not everyone care enough about TT value to justify paying 10-15k extra ped or so just to avoid repairing a few times per hunt.
 
Kattfres said:
Well, not everyone care enough about TT value to justify paying 10-15k extra ped or so just to avoid repairing a few times per hunt.
Click to expand...

Once again, it's not just about TT value. It's been discussed above.

Aakas, Sonkra, etc are great as a finisher when the mob is mostly dead by the time it reaches you. The low TT blades are also good for small melee hunts, or as an inexpensive backup weapon for when you run out of ammo, or as a temporary solution for something.

Long term grinding on low TT blades is significantly less advantageous. At tier 0 they decay fast already, now take it to tier 5 and it will be used up 50% faster. As a result, many melee hunters will buy several of these blades and hot key them all, using one after another until all are broken. Doing that with 5 blades is not unheard of... In that situation you can multiply your tier costs by 5 as well as the time it takes to tier them all.

So as a result, it would make more sense to get the Ranked Combat Knife which has a max TT of 700 PED. That way you are tiering ONE blade. Add in the 180 PED of TT value that the Trauma IV has, and now you are doing a half way respectable run. At tier 5, as is the topic of this thread, that 800+ PED will burn fast because you will be doing 73 DPS. With my Ranked Combat Knife, I'll do between 2 and 4 of those runs in a hunt, using the Portable Repair and TT as I go.

Now, if you want the best possible blade at this level, the obvious choice is the Firefly + Trauma VI. Neither the Aakas or the Ranked Combat Knife can use the Trauma VI whereas the Firefly can and at tier 5 with the Trauma VI, the Firefly is doing almost 85 DPS.
 
HardWrath said:
Once again, it's not just about TT value. It's been discussed above.

Aakas, Sonkra, etc are great as a finisher when the mob is mostly dead by the time it reaches you. The low TT blades are also good for small melee hunts, or as an inexpensive backup weapon for when you run out of ammo, or as a temporary solution for something.

Long term grinding on low TT blades is significantly less advantageous. At tier 0 they decay fast already, now take it to tier 5 and it will be used up 50% faster. As a result, many melee hunters will buy several of these blades and hot key them all, using one after another until all are broken. Doing that with 5 blades is not unheard of... In that situation you can multiply your tier costs by 5 as well as the time it takes to tier them all.
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I think you're overdoing it... do you have a high TT blade to sell or something? :laugh: I hunt with a single "low TT" blade and repairs are not a problem. I hit portable repair terminal hotkey, 3 seconds max and I'm back to swinging. If the mob is so hard that you're going to die in 3 seconds, then you'll be at revive a lot anyway and can use the repair terminal there for free. I think for most hunters, eco and dps and sometimes skill level are more important factors than TT size. I'd maybe pay an extra 10% to price for high TT value.

I don't understand why you'd want to be tiering 5 blades at once... it would take longer to switch the amplifier than to repair it. And if a blade is without an amp there's a greater chance it could be TT'd.
 
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Neil Stockton said:
I think you're overdoing it... do you have a high TT blade to sell or something?
Click to expand...

Well, I actually own almost all of the Arkadia and Calypso low TT blades, some low level high TT caly blades, the medium TT Cyrene blades, etc. Right now I have about two dozen different blades in my inventory.

As far as the rest of your post, it really seems that you are missing my points. Read all of the above posts please.
 
I'd prefer to fiddle with portable TT
 
Hardwrath do you have some high TT blades to sell or why you have so much hate for arkadian and NI ones? I have been using low TT blades since i started 2006. Having 12 1x0 axes was pain in the ass trying to manage. having 8 philosophers with 33 peds usable TT was paing in the ass. Hunting with one archon or disintegration and having portable repair is the best thing in EU. repairing takes literally only like 3-5 seconds. You dont have to use the whole sword and repair in the middle of killing. I usually kill just under 20 longtooths and then repair my sword and continue killing losing almost no time at all.

Paying 5-7k more for nano katana makes no sense to me. Paying 15k more for dragonsbreath is insanity. Paying all that just to save 5 seconds every 15 minutes....
 
Morgotti said:
Hardwrath do you have some high TT blades to sell or why you have so much hate for arkadian and NI ones? I have been using low TT blades since i started 2006. Having 12 1x0 axes was pain in the ass trying to manage. having 8 philosophers with 33 peds usable TT was paing in the ass. Hunting with one archon or disintegration and having portable repair is the best thing in EU. repairing takes literally only like 3-5 seconds. You dont have to use the whole sword and repair in the middle of killing. I usually kill just under 20 longtooths and then repair my sword and continue killing losing almost no time at all.

Paying 5-7k more for nano katana makes no sense to me. Paying 15k more for dragonsbreath is insanity. Paying all that just to save 5 seconds every 15 minutes....
Click to expand...

I think I've answered those questions a couple times already

If the higher cost better blades aren't for you, then they aren't for you....

MA has made different kinds of blades for different people, pick which one fits you.

And no, i don't have a Firefly for sale. I do own a Ranked a Combat Knife but it's not for sale. I'll probably sell it when I have the short blades skills for an Arcspark. I do own an Aakas and most of the other low TT Arkadia blades but for right now, they also are not for sale.
 
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Morgotti said:
Hardwrath do you have some high TT blades to sell or why you have so much hate for arkadian and NI ones?
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I don't have one to sell, but I have used both and have a strong opinion on the topic.
Ark/NI blades are awesome tools for a purpose (NI blades for noobs skilling up, ark blades as ul backups to a main dps weapon)
However the main difference is that a serious longterm melee user will want a genesis(or similar style) series for several reasons over the ark blades.
Neither is better than the other, but one is for the hobbyists, and one is for the serious users and because of that difference there is also a price difference, as there should be.
 
narfi said:
Neither is better than the other, but one is for the hobbyists, and one is for the serious users and because of that difference there is also a price difference, as there should be.
Click to expand...


Disintegration at T0 last around 19 mins continuous slashing (less with increased tiers obs.).

Shooting MM and having normal A204 lasts just under 25 mins.

Genesis blades last hours of continuous hunting.


So everyone who used MM and had only one A204 amp before portable repair was introduced were hobbyists? They had to run/tele to repair terminal every time amp was dead taking propably several minutes or just use unamped MM. With repair tool i can do that in seconds in field.

So please tell me how the hell you cant be serious hunter with disintegration or corrosive?
 
Morgotti said:
Disintegration at T0 last around 19 mins continuous slashing (less with increased tiers obs.).

Shooting MM and having normal A204 lasts just under 25 mins.

Genesis blades last hours of continuous hunting.


So everyone who used MM and had only one A204 amp before portable repair was introduced were hobbyists? They had to run/tele to repair terminal every time amp was dead taking propably several minutes or just use unamped MM. With repair tool i can do that in seconds in field.

So please tell me how the hell you cant be serious hunter with disintegration or corrosive?
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No, before they were continuously bitching about their A204 breaking so fast.. Same with A106 owners, which is why we have the Imp A105 with identical stats as the A106 except for higher TT value.

If the Shagadi only lasts 19 mins at T0 the it will break 50% faster at tier 5.

Morgoth Morgotti Morthond
Hunting Stats
Favorite Mob: Atrox
Highest Loot: 2 798 PED
Total Loot: 70 116 PED
Hunting Rank: 198 of 3 476

I have considerably more Total Loot than you on EntropiaLife and many would consider me a "hobbyist"

The Shagadi and other low TT blades have their place, which is explained by their entry level price point, but for anyone that cycles several thousand ped a day on a regular basis, they will want to settle into a higher TT blade long term and usually use it at high tier such as tier 7+
 
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HardWrath said:
If the Shagadi only lasts 19 mins at T0 the it will break 50% faster at tier 5.
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Eaven at T5 Shagadi lasts +13 mins and 5 seconds for repairs every 13 minutes doesn't justify 5-7k price difference.
 
Morgotti said:
Eaven at T5 Shagadi lasts +13 mins and 5 seconds for repairs every 13 minutes doesn't justify 5-7k price difference.
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For me it does.
 
i still dont see why poeple would pay more for one than the other that it tt value if it has the same eco and same dps

what the problem if it only last 5 min then you have to repair that only take 3 to 5 sec that dont make any sense other that poeple that play using the auto fuction

i know for my self i wont be bying a high tt item i can have a loower tt one that does the same things

also the the amp i wont be buying the hight tt amp when i can get another whit the same values

protable tt repair for the win
 
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