Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

Question: Same old question but I would like an update.

C

CozMoDan

Elite
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Posts
4,767
Location
Arizona
Avatar Name
Herco Coz Mann
I know this has been asked 100s if not 1000s of times but just in case some new info is available here it is.

What I think I think, I think that maybe a mob has loot when spawned and your avatar has the multiplier.
Now do you think the mob has loot (or maybe loot potential) or is it all on the player or all on the mob or a combo of the two kind of like what I think? OR none of the above:)

I know MA says loot is determined at the time of looting but where or how ?

BTW I am not sure how any of this can be proved but just your best guess based on your experiences.
TIA
 
Loot is location based.
 
I believe it is a combo algorithm between specific location/mob and account "trigger"
 
Since it's difficult to prove anything, it's better to think of this problem in terms of "what's the best way to program it". I don't think each mob has a multiplier in it (same with mining claims). If that were the case, Mindark would have to keep track of these numbers and that's an extra drain on the system. There are avatar based factors (dynamic or "luck"), time-based factors and others but I think the basic loot multipliers come from a simple list of generated numbers. Since we all experience the same universal loot lags, I think these come from a single list, which is swapped every hour or two, during the universe-wide "loot lag".
 
I agree with Neil,
one list for loot system must be for all,
doesn't have meaning any other explanation,
universal lag is the best prove we have.
 
  • I don't believe there is any multiplier
  • all mobs are random loot potential
  • higher level mobs have a greater MAX POTENTIAL
  • respawns are just as likely to global or hof as the mob that's been sitting for two weeks
  • finding fruit on the ground means you found fruit nothing else
 
aVaLON_52 said:
  • I don't believe there is any multiplier
  • all mobs are random loot potential
  • higher level mobs have a greater MAX POTENTIAL
  • respawns are just as likely to global or hof as the mob that's been sitting for two weeks
  • finding fruit on the ground means you found fruit nothing else
Click to expand...

I not sure about the multiplier either just heard it mentioned quite a few times.

So you are saying that you don't think a mob spawns with the loot already there and the potential it found out at the time of looting.

I tend to agree with the other things you say.

Here's the real mind bender for me, would two different avatars get the same loot, from the same mob killed, if it were possible for that to happen. IMO a yes would indicate that all of the loot comes from mob, if no, then it either all comes from the avatar or a combo of both.

When I first started I was killing kerbies and a guy near me got an 2800 ped HOF and I asked him if he had any advice for a new player and he said to find an area with the mob you wanted to hunt and look for the area were they were spawning and shot the new ones that just spawned. After playing for a while I didn't believe that either:).

Good food for thought from all and thanks for the replies.
 
Neil Stockton said:
Since it's difficult to prove anything, it's better to think of this problem in terms of "what's the best way to program it". I don't think each mob has a multiplier in it (same with mining claims). If that were the case, Mindark would have to keep track of these numbers and that's an extra drain on the system. There are avatar based factors (dynamic or "luck"), time-based factors and others but I think the basic loot multipliers come from a simple list of generated numbers. Since we all experience the same universal loot lags, I think these come from a single list, which is swapped every hour or two, during the universe-wide "loot lag".
Click to expand...

That is a good way to look at it IMO. I do believe mobs have loot from zero to a certain max number depending on the mob (I think MA said something about this after the "Loot Leveling" VU a couple of years ago) and something having to do with the avatar and we know that mulmum looter elite has a very big max:) But I do believe that the avatar does have something to do with it, like its your turn type of thing.
 
i have always maintained that loot lag proves the loot is not "in" the mob, otherwise you'd always have instant loot. it would be bizarre if the mob asset knew its value, but still had to pass off to another server before giving that loot.

im also convinced there is both location and time based loot modifier, multiplier if you like, shown from clustering in loot.
 
Loot is not in mob.

Mob is nothing but a counter for the value you put into it.

When you start to shoot a mob, a counter starts for that mob, counting the hp you knock of it, give it time to regen and that value will rise, to a certain cap.

When looted, the value is run towards a multiplier, it can be 0 , or normally a value between 0.2-1

When you hit a multiplier, you either global or get a "mini" depending on size of mob (ie: how much hp you had to kill for it to die)

Where multipliers come from we simply dont know, if its avatar carried, location based, mob based, or perhaps a combination.

Abit simplified but im sure you understand what i mean.

This also means we cannot affect our % return in any way, except by controling what we hunt, when we hunt it, and at what cost we hunt it.

So trying to figure out how the mechanism works in any further detail is hopeless, wich also means its a perfect system.

Several thousands of feffox young killed for example with Ranked Scorp, gave biggest non miltiplier loot of 5.40 ped

Biggest non multiplier loot on same mob using a mindforce chip wih lower dps, have given 6.20 ped as highest non multiplied loot.

To figure out how something works, is done by analysis of behaviour of the system, and given that its 100% certain system works with multipliers.

cheers

ermik
 
aridash said:
i have always maintained that loot lag proves the loot is not "in" the mob, otherwise you'd always have instant loot. it would be bizarre if the mob asset knew its value, but still had to pass off to another server before giving that loot.

im also convinced there is both location and time based loot modifier, multiplier if you like, shown from clustering in loot.
Click to expand...

I think I tend to agree when put in that way as its most others do also. If you would explain to me a little further what you mean by location, time and clustering. About location, do you mean a place on the map or something else, also the clustering is that on the map or something else and does time mean time in the game per sitting or your entire time in the game since one started.
Thanks all for the insights and information.
 
You know what the funny thing is 2 programmers at MA are reading this and Leif says to Jorge "Look at the dumb ass they don't even have a clue" Jorge pats Leif on the back and says "We have done well, very well indeed " They chuckle and go off to their cubicles laughing their asses off :laugh:
 
aVaLON_52 said:
  • I don't believe there is any multiplier
  • all mobs are random loot potential
  • higher level mobs have a greater MAX POTENTIAL
  • respawns are just as likely to global or hof as the mob that's been sitting for two weeks
  • finding fruit on the ground means you found fruit nothing else
Click to expand...

The above.
I want to add on that list
Perception Gain means, you gained Perception skill.

CozMoDan said:
Here's the real mind bender for me, would two different avatars get the same loot, from the same mob killed, if it were possible for that to happen.
Click to expand...

short answer no.

when your AVA is due for loot you get it.
With some exceptions ofc.
you could write a book about that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
CozMoDan said:
You should tell everybody that is a Quote from Marco in 2005, I didn't know and sure some of the others didn't and what a crock!!!!
Click to expand...
Well, back when Marco said this things were possible that now aren't possible...
182302_H_ArgonautScout.jpg



Spawn[lootpool], Location, Time and Avatar.
 
Perception is more perceptive as one gains more perception, and those that lack perception are not perceiving perception's true perception.
 
Neil Stockton said:
Since it's difficult to prove anything, it's better to think of this problem in terms of "what's the best way to program it". I don't think each mob has a multiplier in it (same with mining claims). If that were the case, Mindark would have to keep track of these numbers and that's an extra drain on the system. There are avatar based factors (dynamic or "luck"), time-based factors and others but I think the basic loot multipliers come from a simple list of generated numbers. Since we all experience the same universal loot lags, I think these come from a single list, which is swapped every hour or two, during the universe-wide "loot lag".
Click to expand...

interesting analysis. personally I also dont think avatar has anything to do with loot. Since the same system probably is used for teams and an algorithm that weights all members "luck" at loot time would be unnecessarily (sp?) complicated. Of course it could be based on the looters luck (factor) but that seems too arbitrary.

nero

edit. I also happen to believe that this discussion is futile for these reasons:
since it is possible to construct an algorithm tat even the coder cant predict, why not?
by doing the above ma makes sure that emplyees cant abuse knowledge
when ma ordered this algorithm from that matematician they probably demanded this un-predictability
 
Last edited:
Svarog said:
locationbasedloot_415325.jpg


I read it as +1 for location based loot.
Click to expand...
How can you read it like that? All i can see here is a claim that 1000 avatars can have uber ATHs all at the same time and there's no mechanism to prevent this. Extremely simple to code indeed, and extremely risky for the company.
Unless... there's another mechanism that increases or decreases the average multipliers according to the overall balance. (= Time factor)
 
CozMoDan said:
I think I tend to agree when put in that way as its most others do also. If you would explain to me a little further what you mean by location, time and clustering. About location, do you mean a place on the map or something else, also the clustering is that on the map or something else and does time mean time in the game per sitting or your entire time in the game since one started.
Thanks all for the insights and information.
Click to expand...

Well, location, I don't think has anything to do with loot. Sounds so me like it would be easy to exploit. However, many of us who have played for a while can attest that globals sometimes (even often) come in clusters in time, more than random clustering can explain.

For example, I hunted teladons once and got 5-6 globals in as many mobs (forget exact number now). It's hard to believe that could be due to randomness. If loot were random in time, the probability of this happening is something around 1 in 10 million. Another example, I was crafting Ark keys for a couple months with zero globals on them until one morning I crafted a few and got about a half dozen globals in just a few minutes (on different items). I didn't notice other people globaling more at that time, so was it just my avatar "luck" that had been increased at that time?

Another example: player A grinds ark instance 10s for weeks and gets 1 codex, player B comes to Ark does a handful of them and in one day loots at least 4... during the same time period. Random? Player A can't see how it is.

Running a mining company, I see returns each day from a number of short (200 ped) runs from different people. I can say that TT returns in mining definitely have temporal trends. For example, one day 80% of the runs are around 130 ped, the next day 80% are around 200 ped though hit rates remain about the same. We might see no globals at all for a week but then the weekend comes and 80% get a global in the friday morning run. These variations happen all the time and often coincide with the weekend, which means they might be tied to overall activity or maybe crafting volume. Sometimes there's weird stuff, like once when about 5 of us were mining, within a few minutes of each other, 3 of us got large HOFs.

So... it seems like many different factors can affect loot. The ones I'm sure of are time factors, universal or economic factors, avatar factors, and of course there's some randomness in there too.
 
Fifth said:
How can you read it like that? All i can see here is a claim that 1000 avatars can have uber ATHs all at the same time and there's no mechanism to prevent this. Extremely simple to code indeed, and extremely risky for the company.
Unless... there's another mechanism that increases or decreases the average multipliers according to the overall balance. (= Time factor)
Click to expand...

It's about loot flows overall, not ATHs. Kim was answering to the supposition that the bosses he was spawning in Twins draw loot from other areas/mobs. The way he answered implies 2 possibilities: 1) each area/mob has its own pool, so what's happening in one area / kind of mobs doesn't affect other areas / kinds of mobs; 2) there are no lootpools at all, "each loot is unique" as in each loot is constructed from scratch upon kill, its content isn't derived from some stack. Thanks to the devnotes #1, we know that's not the case. Common observations, like something disappearing from loot once people start hoarding it, also contradicts it.
 
Svarog said:
It's about loot flows overall, not ATHs. Kim was answering to the supposition that the bosses he was spawning in Twins draw loot from other areas/mobs. The way he answered implies 2 possibilities: 1) each area/mob has its own pool, so what's happening in one area / kind of mobs doesn't affect other areas / kinds of mobs; 2) there are no lootpools at all, "each loot is unique" as in each loot is constructed from scratch upon kill, its content isn't derived from some stack. Thanks to the devnotes #1, we know that's not the case. Common observations, like something disappearing from loot once people start hoarding it, also contradicts it.
Click to expand...
OK, i can see your logic now (and i tend to agree).
It was a misunderstanding of terms that confused me - "Location" factor for me is certain set of coordinates.
What you talk about i prefer to call "mob/spawn" factor (also known as "spawn lootpool").


Disclaimer: It's all just theories ofc, we can never know those things for certain...
 
Jan Universe said:
The above.
I want to add on that list
Perception Gain means, you gained Perception skill.



short answer no.

when your AVA is due for loot you get it.
With some exceptions ofc.
you could write a book about that.
Click to expand...

That is about what I think also.
 
Svarog said:
It's about loot flows overall, not ATHs. Kim was answering to the supposition that the bosses he was spawning in Twins draw loot from other areas/mobs. The way he answered implies 2 possibilities: 1) each area/mob has its own pool, so what's happening in one area / kind of mobs doesn't affect other areas / kinds of mobs; 2) there are no lootpools at all, "each loot is unique" as in each loot is constructed from scratch upon kill, its content isn't derived from some stack. Thanks to the devnotes #1, we know that's not the case. Common observations, like something disappearing from loot once people start hoarding it, also contradicts it.
Click to expand...

If I read this correctly you are saying that each mob has its own loot pool. I would agree and proof is in ET, just look at the number of globals and HOFs on LTs and eomons. But, it that true or is it just because more people are hunting them and thus many more chances ? IDK.
 
Neil Stockton said:
Since it's difficult to prove anything, it's better to think of this problem in terms of "what's the best way to program it". I don't think each mob has a multiplier in it (same with mining claims). If that were the case, Mindark would have to keep track of these numbers and that's an extra drain on the system. There are avatar based factors (dynamic or "luck"), time-based factors and others but I think the basic loot multipliers come from a simple list of generated numbers. Since we all experience the same universal loot lags, I think these come from a single list, which is swapped every hour or two, during the universe-wide "loot lag".
Click to expand...

I didnt read the whole thread but if you look back to the earlier years it's very clear that each mob/claim has a multiplier. When the veins where spawning in straight lines (not sure if i remember this part right but it was one of the two) you had good loot at the last claim in the vein, and in the middle, or if it was only in the middle. So yes mobs has some type of multiplier if you ask me. But i do belive your skills are involved too and also location and timing.
 
Legion said:
I didnt read the whole thread but if you look back to the earlier years it's very clear that each mob/claim has a multiplier. When the veins where spawning in straight lines (not sure if i remember this part right but it was one of the two) you had good loot at the last claim in the vein, and in the middle, or if it was only in the middle. So yes mobs has some type of multiplier if you ask me. But i do belive your skills are involved too and also location and timing.
Click to expand...

I don't see that nowadays.
 
CozMoDan said:
If I read this correctly you are saying that each mob has its own loot pool. I would agree and proof is in ET, just look at the number of globals and HOFs on LTs and eomons. But, it that true or is it just because more people are hunting them and thus many more chances ? IDK.
Click to expand...

Yes, a pool for each kind of mobs. If it was based on chances, the currently dominating in hunting activity LT/Eomons would steal all chances from other mobs. In reality, loot situation on other mobs doesn't differ greatly from pre-migration.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top