Question: Raise the Cap on Pyrite?

addz said:

You kinda did the same thing before when I said there was no evidence that a hard cap actually existed. You quoted a vague statement from a dev and then applied you opinion of what that meant to the whole debate.



Pot, kettle. Kettle this is pot. I think you 2 should be friends.

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If there isnt a cap of some kind, and maybe "cap" is the wrong word, explain a way MA could maintain scarcity of certain resources.

HardWrath said:

If there isnt a cap of some kind, and maybe "cap" is the wrong word, explain a way MA could maintain scarcity of certain resources.

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Refer to my post. I'd trust that Sledge knows what he is talking about. But, a weekly cap for the amount of pyrite that can be mined would make sense.

HardWrath said:

If there isnt a cap of some kind, and maybe "cap" is the wrong word, explain a way MA could maintain scarcity of certain resources.

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I don't like to assume that MA lies, but since the dev notes came out, I noticed some information to be illogical, something that's been proven by raw data over the years. I guess you can call it "not enough data" rather to just call them liars.

To figure out the "hard cap" on resources, we have to think back and remember the time when dub crashed the game with that ruga tower and how that tower affected rare resource claims for the following years

Charlie|Calypso said:

There is no cap on the amount of Pyrite that can exist at all. Even if someone is hoarding it, it doesn't affect how much can be mined.

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"No cap on the max amount" probably means "No hard cap". This is a good news.
Okay, this means there is a different system to control the amount in circulation. Why i think it's not simply effect of overmining an area while the demand is high?

Because, let's turn it around. What happens when a substantial amount of any resource is used up?
This is where the existence of a balancing system shows most clearly. Best way to test it - planets with a low population.

1st example: Cyrene, big Dusters. This is a mob that drops shitloads of MF chips (more than any other mob i know). Every global and mini is a guaranteed MF chip.
If u keep hunting for several hours nonstop, after a while they start dropping less. And less. And even less. Until finally u reach the point when u rarely get any. TT all the chips, see what happens? MF chips start raining again.

2nd example: Cyrene, Tanhok Amber. That's supposed to be very rare resource (meaning, the system tries to keep the total amount in game on a very low level).
There was a time when ~10 people in different time zones hunted extensively trying to loot it. After several weeks there was 1 (maybe 2?) lucky hit(s). One of the guys who got the Amber used it up and went hunting right after. He got another Tanhok Amber in less than 60 min. A bit too much for a coincidence, doncha think?

This leads me to believe droprate is connected to the amount in circulation. How exactly, we can't tell.


Charlie's remark reminds me one old story i've heard.
I've met an old PE miner in another game. We used to talk alot, about games we had played mostly. Once he described in detail how he used to hoard certain resources to make them drop less, thus driving the market prices up and made good profit this way.
Then at some point MA changed the way the system works and he couldn't do that any more. I don't remember what was the time frame, could be 2004 or 2005. Suppose that was the point when hard caps were replaced by... something a bit more sophisticated.

There's ppl who know a bit more about this "something a bit more sophisticated", but they won't speak...

As I see this situation, including dev post.

Droprate may be:

50% claims of Pyrite (other claims - Lyst, Cald, and so on) when circulation amount of Pyrite is low.
20% claims of Pyrite when circulation amount is big (or some amount is hoarded).

And here is no cap, because here is always exist lowest hitrate.

dr3w said:

Seriously? BTW, Pyrite wasn't go up so high, it was common "seasonal" swing. But there is some interesting pic:

Pyrite is boring shit, compared to turnovers of that cheap crappage like lyst and oil.

Minimal risk also, for "cornering" .

Most interesting "cornering" would be made on Alternative, since it's one of most popular mining amps (D-CLASS), and thus, influence on ALL mining market?

Still wasn't done. Why?

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For someone who considers himself intelligent you lack basic mathematics skills m8

Say i had 200k peds and tried buying up oil or lyst or whatever that is tt shit. It would raise the mu by what ?? 4% ..5%..max.. and then while selling i would be against all the newbies who mine 10 peds and undercut me all the time..

Now if i had 100k peds of pyrite , what sort of difference in % u think that would make??? My guess is upward of 40-50% or around that.. That's an ROI of more then 8 times at least for the same investment.

Did the above help you? I bet not You want fun on forum and a bad ass name of shit stirrer so i'll just help u get more of that at least since i am sure u'll reply to this

On topic , i don't think this is scam or anything. This is how a free economy is supposed to work and these are things which happen irl too albeit a much larger scale. However, it is MA which needs to do the balancing at there end and i am sure they are aware of the situation, does help to highlight on forums am sure. For those indulging, well enjoy while the sun is shining cause it wont always and profits can turn anytime due to MA re balancing.

Divinity

PS: Alternative also is a strong contender for the cornering bit imo

Hi there. I would name the problem risen as community problem: if community (=suppliers, users, distributors as main actors in this partial case) fail to operate lower amounts properly do you think operation costs for larger amounts will go more efficient?
If "hoarding" is so attractively "profitable" why there is not enough competition to offer more fair service on distribution of goods? Or, why miners do sell more likely to "hoarders", ain't crafters (=end users) offering better prices? Who's who...

Do I hear right that quality of enhancers has been grown (lesser 'decay'?)? Logics tell me price for higher quality will be higher. As well it tells that due to lower decay consumption will drop. That fits with what we see on market looking to daily average for week, month, year (610-->517-->471PED/day and price 292%-->322%-->379% for damage I [took it as most popular representative of damage series]). Drop is by ~18%. What is the grow in price? Same 18%! No changes on PED level on that flow. If quality of enhancers grown to lower cost for hunter (some1 mentioned it doubled....; though I think there were more subtle mechanisms involved not to shock that much the economy). Sounds as hunters got some better. How the situation looks for crafters and miners. Lower sells for crafter isn't good but they got 18% increase in price of enhancers. To mention 9% of that was "eaten" by rise of pyrite price (217% --> 237%, ratio = 1.088 [9%]). And for miners pyrite sells better by 9% (100* (237/217 -1)). On the surface, not digging into deep details of various cost changes, seems like both miners and crafters got 9% better and if it's true that hunters got higher quality - win-win-win that was. Picture is more complex for sure - any changes add frustrations for one or other actor or group.

I'm not crafter of enhancers, I'm not miner, I'm not hunter nor I'm trader so I could fail on my thoughts, peace.
Just offered different point of view.


I doubt MA are happy at all when talk is about regulation (=rise the cost of operation) and I hope their wish is to have mature community, selfregulating (=free market), so that would mean no expenses on the regulation/balancing and thus more time for creation of new tools for us to operate media space given to us or roles to play.


add:
btw daily flow of pyrite is ~stable 1900PED/day (week, month average) so, I see no changes on "supply". Where are "caps" seen? Browsing auction today seen ~2k ped of it at BO at ~market price. So - this day is usual one.

Found pyrite today, tin foil hat on.

Fifth said:

1st example: Cyrene, big Dusters. This is a mob that drops shitloads of MF chips (more than any other mob i know). Every global and mini is a guaranteed MF chip.
If u keep hunting for several hours nonstop, after a while they start dropping less. And less. And even less. Until finally u reach the point when u rarely get any. TT all the chips, see what happens? MF chips start raining again.

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The same has been said of other rare materials which can be used in crafting, where the crafting is carried out at low activity periods, then ppl run out and quickly soak up the exact number used in crafting after the lootpool updates the next time. If people are not just claiming that, but have really done it, then it is proof to me of how caps exist. Another method is to stock used up (L) weaps until you want to craft some, and then tt some a bit before the lootpool refill = voila! That way you will get more successes, or rather fewer fails if ppl have been cap stockpiling that weap and there aren't many available.

It all sounds true enough to me. I heard some changes were made to the timing of the lootpool updates, but it would still seem to be easy to see if you try - and I assume it didn't change the situation with caps - at least not enough apparently!

The MA comment that there is no cap on pyrite? I don't have much faith in it.
Then again, I also believe we had personal loot totals (not quite the same as a 'pool'). I had patterns of behaviour that I did when being less eco - and could pretty clearly see a balancing result. Then it changed, followed by the anouncement that there IS no personal loot pool. Well, there WAS.... (or a tt summation and balancing process).

Divinity said:

For someone who considers himself intelligent you lack basic mathematics skills m8

Say i had 200k peds and tried buying up oil or lyst or whatever that is tt shit. It would raise the mu by what ?? 4% ..5%..max.. and then while selling i would be against all the newbies who mine 10 peds and undercut me all the time..

Now if i had 100k peds of pyrite , what sort of difference in % u think that would make??? My guess is upward of 40-50% or around that.. That's an ROI of more then 8 times at least for the same investment.

Did the above help you? I bet not You want fun on forum and a bad ass name of shit stirrer so i'll just help u get more of that at least since i am sure u'll reply to this

On topic , i don't think this is scam or anything. This is how a free economy is supposed to work and these are things which happen irl too albeit a much larger scale. However, it is MA which needs to do the balancing at there end and i am sure they are aware of the situation, does help to highlight on forums am sure. For those indulging, well enjoy while the sun is shining cause it wont always and profits can turn anytime due to MA re balancing.

Divinity

PS: Alternative also is a strong contender for the cornering bit imo

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Sure I will reply to this, and without any walls of text like you all doing. I always called "troll", "slow", "lack of something" and etc. Also I don't consider myself intelligent, still, somehow I can do something just by pure ingame mechanics, while most people going into parasiting mode (yay, #trade contains 900 users, meanwhile whole fucking "playerbase" is barely above 5k)

If you can't see further than "buy-low-sell-high" - it's your problem. If you can't see why I taking some words in "that form" - it's your problem. If you can't see what I told to HardWrath (he still doesn't answered, on my last question, and it's obvious why) - it's your problem.

And last thing: if you calling EU "free economy" and see there "market" - well, you're just idiot. It's not a big deal to make more money using more money, the hardest problem is to find worse idiots than you are.

(there should be latest ComPets "Concept Art" picture, but Im lazy)

Kiss.

dr3w said:

Sure I will reply to this, and without any walls of text like you all doing. I always called "troll", "slow", "lack of something" and etc. Also I don't consider myself intelligent, still, somehow I can do something just by pure ingame mechanics, while most people going into parasiting mode (yay, #trade contains 900 users, meanwhile whole fucking "playerbase" is barely above 5k)

If you can't see further than "buy-low-sell-high" - it's your problem. If you can't see why I taking some words in "that form" - it's your problem. If you can't see what I told to HardWrath (he still doesn't answered, on my last question, and it's obvious why) - it's your problem.

And last thing: if you calling EU "free economy" and see there "market" - well, you're just idiot. It's not a big deal to make more money using more money, the hardest problem is to find worse idiots than you are.

(there should be latest ComPets "Concept Art" picture, but Im lazy)

Kiss.

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TLDR sorry

Zenzile said:

TLDR sorry

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And that's good - more dumb people in game - better for "economy".

dr3w said:

And that's good - more dumb people in game - better for "economy".

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Lol. I'd say the dumb one is the guy who didn't understand that I was joking in response to the "I won't create a wall of text."

Zenzile said:

Lol. I'd say the dumb one is the guy who didn't understand that I was joking in response to the "I won't create a wall of text."

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I can't expect obvious things from person who mining with scanner, sorry.

Has nobody considered that possibly supply just drops below demand? I mean with the huge increase of hunters during migration, why do ore hoarders have to be the culprit? I mean it's like gazz. Lots of gazz was needed lately and as demand grew so did the mu, 10-20% in fact. I know for a fact that it wasn't people hoarding gazz that pushed up the mu.

So why are so many people so sure this isn't just a natural increase in markup?

If enhancers are inefficient due to mu, stop using them, it's simple. It's not like you need to use them in most cases.

dr3w said:

I can't expect obvious things from person who mining with scanner, sorry.

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Lol!

This made me laugh. x)

Come to think of it I don't know if you have seen me with something other than a scanner equipped.

HardWrath said:

If there is a cap of some kind, and maybe "cap" is the wrong word, explain a way MA could maintain scarcity of certain resources.

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If I had to guess and I must stress the word guess I would say its more a case of a 1% drop rate that the team monitors and adjusts a few % up or down. But once they find an equilibrium point I don't think they would monitor it every day unless something really drastic happened. A small short term price jump isn't drastic, its just market forces.

The people who saw this coming and "manipulated the market" shouldn't be negatively criticized if anything they're a shining example of how players can profit within the game.

This game is way too small. It is far too easy for someone to hoard everything like ESI too for example.

As Charlie said - there is no cap.
And many other MA officials said that there is no cap on many things.
But there is something what comunity feel as a cap.
Appart that we have still possibility to loot imk2, MM or mod fap because hmm - there is no cap.
And ofc attributes and skills dont have a cap too.
But again there is a point where attribute and skill gains are hardly measurable and are percieved as a cap.
So we need to consider this things when MA official say that there is no cap on something.
Basicaly we didnt got right answer about right thing.
Is presence of 2k pyrite on auction right daily ammount?
Let see hunter with weapon tier 8 and he want fill all eight slots so 8 x 100.
To craft 800 enhancers need for sure more than 800 pyrite considering succes and near suces rates.
That is for one single player and we are near on ammount wich is daily aviable.
What about other players?

Zenzile said:

Has nobody considered that possibly supply just drops below demand? I mean with the huge increase of hunters during migration, why do ore hoarders have to be the culprit? I mean it's like gazz. Lots of gazz was needed lately and as demand grew so did the mu, 10-20% in fact. I know for a fact that it wasn't people hoarding gazz that pushed up the mu.

So why are so many people so sure this isn't just a natural increase in markup?

If enhancers are inefficient due to mu, stop using them, it's simple. It's not like you need to use them in most cases.

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well im quite sure because pyrite doesnt drop like it normally would.. didnt u read anything from this thread

HardWrath said:

Thats the worst advice ever... you dont know what you are talking about... stockpiling high MU% resources is extremely risky. I hope no one takes your advice and ends up losing a ton of ped because of it. Balance changes, EU is dynamic, and prices fall.

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stockpiling pyrite (or enhancers) before massive hunting event with lots of high hp mobs and lots of ubers hunting i wouldn't consider worst advice...

if you had stockpiled pyrite before the event you would be smiling about this thread now...

HardWrath said:

Since 2005, Ive lost more ped on falling prices in stackable resources then you have deposited in the whole time you have played EU.

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lol...yes, this makes you expert..

I really dont see the point of all this?? The swings is a normal part of a free market might be some1 trying to profit (are you jealous??) or are you angry at yourself to not see it coming for the 50:th time in a row when its events??

Sell mod fap in TT and remove the cap.....its unfair??

I love those aspects of the game that if you adapt you can win and if you dont think you lose.

It is allso possible to hunt those unenhanced btw, look at smilgs for example never using an enhancer and he seems to be doing ok

Magnus Mag said:

stockpiling pyrite (or enhancers) before massive hunting event with lots of high hp mobs and lots of ubers hunting i wouldn't consider worst advice...

if you had stockpiled pyrite before the event you would be smiling about this thread now...

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Sure, if I had absolutely nothing else to do with my ped, nothing at all, then yes buying Pyrite in quantity earlier would have made sense if I wanted to flip a coin... dont forget, just before all this happened, MA reduced enhancer consumption by 50%, and as a result more people then not were predicting Pyrite would crash in value.

Magnus Mag said:

lol...yes, this makes you expert..

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No, my current EU ROI does, at least to an extent

krogfan said:

I really dont see the point of all this?? The swings is a normal part of a free market

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krogfan said:

might be some1 trying to profit (are you jealous??) or are you angry at yourself to not see it coming for the 50:th time in a row when its events??

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Jealous? rofl... even if I knew before that Pyrite would go from 190% to 240%, I still would have done exactly what I did which did not include buying up Pyrite.

krogfan said:

Sell mod fap in TT and remove the cap.....its unfair??

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Apples and oranges... mod faps aren't a consumable resource used in the crafting process.


All that aside.. i'm done with this thread, I've said what I have to say.

HardWrath said:

Jealous? rofl... even if I knew before that Pyrite would go from 190% to 240%, I still would have done exactly what I did which did not include buying up Pyrite.

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So let me get this right, you would pass up on a sure profit?

The only reason I can see for passing up on a sure thing like that is so that you can act smug on the forums and look down your nose at the people who had the fore-thought to cash in on it.

Or we could just continue to go with the ol blame MA for everything route that seems to be so very popular among forum trolls these days.

addz said:

So let me get this right, you would pass up on a sure profit?

The only reason I can see for passing up on a sure thing like that is so that you can act smug on the forums and look down your nose at the people who had the fore-thought to cash in on it.

Or we could just continue to go with the ol blame MA for everything route that seems to be so very popular among forum trolls these days.

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It's not "sure profit." You are not at all considering the risks in such an investment...

Do also consider a 50% increase in mu on pyrite is really only like a 20%-25% profit. The hassle of selling a massive stack of ore is not worth that.

Also consider the time required to wait before selling along with the effects of selling on the market.

All of the previously mentioned issues with this investment make it much less desirable than simply reselling items.

Zenzile said:

It's not "sure profit." You are not at all considering the risks in such an investment...

Do also consider a 50% increase in mu on pyrite is really only like a 20%-25% profit. The hassle of selling a massive stack of ore is not worth that.

Also consider the time required to wait before selling along with the effects of selling on the market.

All of the previously mentioned issues with this investment make it much less desirable than simply reselling items.

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It's a 26.3% profit and its a bit of work but shit do you just want the peds to land in your lap for nothing?

Also if there really is a drought in pyrite as bad as you are claiming the whole point of "waiting to sell" becomes crud when you can dump it at even 235% make a sweet profit and flip it fast.

addz said:

It's a 26.3% profit and its a bit of work but shit do you just want the peds to land in your lap for nothing?

Also if there really is a drought in pyrite as bad as you are claiming the whole point of "waiting to sell" becomes crud when you can dump it at even 235% make a sweet profit and flip it fast.

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Even then, who knows the price it will rise to, 25% is not a sure thing. All I am saying is that Hardwrath probably has less risky and more profitable things to do as do most other traders.

There is a reason people like akoz, divinity, etc don't stockpile ores

Zenzile said:

Even then, who knows the price it will rise to, 25% is not a sure thing. All I am saying is that Hardwrath probably has less risky and more profitable things to do as do most other traders.

There is a reason people like akoz, divinity, etc don't stockpile ores

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In his example we're assuming its a sure thing... or didn't you actually read it?

what happen if you make enhancers a big checnk of the or give them so someone you know starting the craft then go mine for more you or your freinds

is nt that a better way to make a profit than just selling it

because it not like hording oils and list you have area you know it going to drop in