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SGA Scam

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Aio said:
It's not a need to "quibble" nor is it frivolous. You keep calling this person a scammer, which is as mentioned defamation, when all he is doing is using a dishonest tactic to make a sale.
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If someone tries to sell me a Frog and tells me it is a Prince... I expect it to be a Prince, or else i would think I was scammed.


PS: Before Mr Fivedolla or Taco reply to this... Yes i would kiss the shit out of that Frog
 
qamori said:
If someone tries to sell me a Frog and tells me it is a Prince... I expect it to be a Prince, or else i would think I was scammed.


PS: Before Mr Fivedolla or Taco reply to this... Yes i would kiss the shit out of that Frog
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Obviously this is not a scam. It is a sales "tactic."
 
qamori said:
If someone tries to sell me a Frog and tells me it is a Prince... I expect it to be a Prince, or else i would think I was scammed.


PS: Before Mr Fivedolla or Taco reply to this... Yes i would kiss the shit out of that Frog
Click to expand...

Why are you buying princes and kissing frogs? :scratch2:
 
qamori said:
If someone tries to sell me a Frog and tells me it is a Prince... I expect it to be a Prince, or else i would think I was scammed.


PS: Before Mr Fivedolla or Taco reply to this... Yes i would kiss the shit out of that Frog
Click to expand...

This car will get 80mpg!

*when using low friction tyres on a rolling road with no inclines, acceleration or deceleration.

This phone will enhance your social life!

*unless you're friendless

Buy our anti-aging skin cream!

*only gives anti-aging effect

Shampoo A was recommended by 95% of tested users!

*112/118 participants, 118 people selected from regular buyers of Shampoo A

Global warming exists! / Global warming does not exist!

*research done by planet ecologist / research done by oil conglomorate

I didn't realise how sensitive and wrapped in cotton wool modern PE users have become... I apologise, obviously this person is a master scam artist and should be avoided at all costs - I recommend a petition to MA to put this avatar on a banned list and strip all assets to be shared equally amongst those who have brought him to justice. I imagine an Imp Fap SGA would look nice in TP Mall's shopfront.

You've gotta worry about someone who could get scammed by this bloke, I mean, have you seen his facebook page?

I feel sorry for those of you who have to expose yourselves to the outside world, it must be a pretty tough experience.
 
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I have something you can kiss.l but it's not a frog... it is a snake.
 
HardWrath said:
There is a particular well known reseller/Imp Fap medic, who due to forum rules, I can not name here that is going around trying to sell dramatically overpriced SGA items and telling people that SGA means Skill Gain Advantage.

SGA means Second Golden Age... it was an event similar to TEN where special edition items looted for a short time. SGA items do not give skills faster. If you look at the item info it clearly says Second Golden Age... yet this person is trying to convince people that everyone who thinks it means Second Golden Age is misinformed and that it actually means Skill Gain Advantage.

Misleading people about what SGA means and what those items do, while trying to sell for double the value is a scam. I have had other people PM me about this asking me for clarification on what SGA means and what those items do. Now that I have seen this person doing it first hand, I thought its best to bring it to light so everyone knows.

I can share the name by PM and I do have screen shots of the chat conversation.

I hope no one gets fooled by this person or anyone else.
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Lets not forget but the SGA items are generally a little better (in most cases) then its non SGA counter part. :wise:

But not Skill gain advantage better!
 
Aio said:
This car will get 80mpg!

*when using low friction tyres on a rolling road with no inclines, acceleration or deceleration.

This phone will enhance your social life!

*unless you're friendless

Buy our anti-aging skin cream!

*only gives anti-aging effect

Shampoo A was recommended by 95% of tested users!

*112/118 participants, 118 people selected from regular buyers of Shampoo A

Global warming exists! / Global warming does not exist!

*research done by planet ecologist / research done by oil conglomorate

I didn't realise how sensitive and wrapped in cotton wool modern PE users have become... I apologise, obviously this person is a master scam artist and should be avoided at all costs - I recommend a petition to MA to put this avatar on a banned list and strip all assets to be shared equally amongst those who have brought him to justice. I imagine an Imp Fap SGA would look nice in TP Mall's shopfront.

You've gotta worry about someone who could get scammed by this bloke, I mean, have you seen his facebook page?

I feel sorry for those of you who have to expose yourselves to the outside world, it must be a pretty tough experience.
Click to expand...

lol..Good one ..+rep for innovation :)


Anyways on topic, I gave it some more thought

SGA guns/armors decay more there non SGA counterparts due to higher dps/defense attributes. So would it be correct to say that they give better skill gain?? We cannot always consider Damage/pec or heal/pec as important since SIB ( Skill Increase Bonus) that guns have is basically a condition where u get more skills for less dpp and MA still call it SIB.

Food for thought??

PS: SGA Still does not stand for Skill Gain Advantage , but i am not discussing the acronym here.
 
HardWrath said:
There is a particular well known reseller/Imp Fap medic, who due to forum rules, I can not name here that is going around trying to sell dramatically overpriced SGA items and telling people that SGA means Skill Gain Advantage.
[...]
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Haha that's creative :laugh:

Rumor is that indeed some SGA item, particularly SGA Mod FAP, do give way more skills than regular version....
Given so that would be a "Skill Gain Advantage: to use SGA ;)
 
Comparing a SGA item to a non-SGA item of the same type and thus concluding that it gives more skill because it uses more cash is not a valid argument in my book. Just because the items share a first name dosnt mean that they are closely related in the slightest.

A item is not the name it holds, its the attributes it delivers.
 
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melander said:
Comparing a SGA item to a non-SGA item of the same type and thus concluding that it gives more skill because it uses more cash is not a valid argument in my book. Just because the items share a first name dosnt mean that they are closely related in the slightest.

A item is not the name it holds, its the attributes it delivers.
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Please do your homework before answering....

Mod Fap and Mod Fap SGA have exactly same decay therefore cost is the same.
Going further, regular is faster than SGA, therefore you use it more in the same time, spending more money per hour.
Yet people calculated that SGA gives substantially more skills than regular one.
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
Yet people calculated that it gives substantially more skills.
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I am honestly curious about this. Did I miss the calculations? I would like to know the numbers on tt of skill gains vs tt of skill gains for a set amount of decay over time.
 
Aio said:
This car will get 80mpg!

*when using low friction tyres on a rolling road with no inclines, acceleration or deceleration.....
Click to expand...

Intentionally deceptive advertising is something I've always despised on a personal level. I even wrote about it IRL way back in 2001 before the concept of Blogging even existed.

Offering to sell someone an oz. of gold and giving them a chunk of tree bark with the word "gold" carved into it after getting paid is wrong. I don't care how you justify it.

  • When big companies do it, it's wrong.
  • When an individual does it, it's wrong.
  • Whenever it's done, it's wrong.

And there's another thing I despise:
"But Mom, everyone does it!"

Link to appropriate meme

We can debate whether being intentionally deceptive in your sales practices qualifies as a "scam", or requires some other word. But then we're simply arguing semantics, not morality.

But if you think it's ok I'll tell you what: I have a Mod Merc I wanna sell. I'll give it to you Aio, for a mere +5k, since I like you so much. Besides, you won't mind if I accidentally sell you a normal EP-40, not the Modified version, right?
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
For 10 years we have known that skill gain and decay are directly related,
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Not as much as you think. Tests with the EMT Kit Ek-2500 Deluxe mentioned here show that skill gains are connected not just to TT spend, but other factors as well.

However, that's a whole other discussion. And while a few Second Golden Age items might give a slight benefit due to slightly better stats (along with perhaps slightly more decay/use) the fact remains that SGA does NOT stand for Skill Gain Advantage, and to say so is either misinformed or simply lying.

Copy of original SGA announcement

And for those that were there and remember, the first drops were originally labeled [original item name], Second Golden Age Edition

...Which everyone quickly realized was way too long to show on item info box as well as looking like crap on the auction.

So, MA wisely renamed all the items [original item name], SGA Edition.

Any other history needs be given about how wrong the seller is about the meaning of "SGA" in the title of an object?
 
Got me a punisher mk II "sCUM Gobbling Advancedwhore" edition! It will increase something just maybe not skills! ;) TT + 250k sounds about right! Even looted it myself! :yup:

Pm me if your interested! :beerchug:
 
Yes, sales tactic based on a lie is scam.
Yes, everyone is doing it. All big corporations do it, and no this doesn't make it right.


All that said, the idea with this game was to create a virtual model of reality, i believe?
If so, the model should be as deceiving and full of lies as our RL business practices.

Noobs will be scammed you say? Well yes, could happen if they dumb and lazy.
In fact, this is inevitable in the most secure environment.
Scams will never end, no matter what u will do...

Another way to deal with this - don't do anything (except exploits). With all the social manipulation, let it roll. Make it a gangsta's paradise, a hellhole full of scammers, a really dangerous place where u can expect anything but a fair trade.

I think that would be cool.
I mean, if u can effortlessly swim through the pool full of sharks, that's a good feeling. :cool:

 
Fifth said:
Another way to deal with this - don't do anything (except exploits). With all the social manipulation, let it roll. Make it a gangsta's paradise, a hellhole full of scammers, a really dangerous place where u can expect anything but a fair trade.

I think that would be cool.
I mean, if u can effortlessly swim through the pool full of sharks, that's a good feeling. :cool:
Click to expand...

That's not the sort of society I want to live or play in.
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
...snip...
Yet people calculated that SGA gives substantially more skills than regular one.
Click to expand...

So far i've only seen claims and rumours, i have yet to see calculations of more skills gained ( in Terms of TT value, not green lines )
When i see approbriae tests over a longer period of time and in a good sample size which are PUBLISHED i might believe that claim.

Beside that someone might test SGA vs. non SGA items to see if that effect applies to more items ( if the effect exists ) AND is overproportional to more decay that might be on the SGA versions vs. non SGA versions.

Anyway that does still not change the acronym itself which is a false claim as it clearly stands for Second Golden Age ( Even looted 3 SGA items back then myself and never had the impression, that they give more skills btw. )
 
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Jennson said:
So far i've only seen claims and rumours, i have yet to see calculations of more skills gained ( in Terms of TT value, not green lines )
When i see approbriae tests over a longer period of time and in a good sample size which are PUBLISHED i might believe that claim.

Beside that someone might test SGA vs. non SGA items to see if that effect applies to more items ( if the effect exists ) AND is overproportional to more decay that might be on the SGA versions vs. non SGA versions.
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i can confirm that the sga faps give more tt skillgain for the same amount of ped. woulnd't mind running some tests with weapons (opalo normal vs. sga ?). I'll try to get that done this weekend :yay:
 
JohnCapital said:
Intentionally deceptive advertising is something I've always despised on a personal level. I even wrote about it IRL way back in 2001 before the concept of Blogging even existed.

Offering to sell someone an oz. of gold and giving them a chunk of tree bark with the word "gold" carved into it after getting paid is wrong. I don't care how you justify it.

  • When big companies do it, it's wrong.
  • When an individual does it, it's wrong.
  • Whenever it's done, it's wrong.

And there's another thing I despise:
"But Mom, everyone does it!"

Link to appropriate meme

We can debate whether being intentionally deceptive in your sales practices qualifies as a "scam", or requires some other word. But then we're simply arguing semantics, not morality.

But if you think it's ok I'll tell you what: I have a Mod Merc I wanna sell. I'll give it to you Aio, for a mere +5k, since I like you so much. Besides, you won't mind if I accidentally sell you a normal EP-40, not the Modified version, right?
Click to expand...

But that's just it... It doesn't matter whether you thing it's wrong or wrong, whether everyone thinks it's right or wrong, it's legal and until it isn't I can't see how it's justified calling someone a scammer. Scams to me are theft, there's no theft here. Anyone handing over 10k ped or 10 ped should have researched their purchase or they run the risk as we all do every day in life of being stung.

I'm in sales in real life... And we sell ethically (actually it's so technical the sales part is a formality). However I have no sympathy as there are people who won't but as they can get cheaper elsewhere... And surprise surprise the products are inferior.

This whole thread just seems like a self advertisement for one reseller besmirching another.....
 
Not all scams are illegal so that's not a good yardstick.

Lying about the product you are trying to sell is just wrong. People try to hide behind technicalities but it really can't be justified or rationalised away. Any pedantry about the applicability of "scam" is a meaningless distraction.
 
Saying SGA stands for more skill gain, to give his product more MU is wrong. But i dont see the difference if a reseller saying melee weapons are now worth 5 x normal Price, and they havent sold for that Price for months, some even a hole year now. Is that not lying about an item when trying to sell it?

cheers
 
Aio said:
it's legal and until it isn't (...)
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http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedr%C3%A4geri_i_svensk_lag

Bedrägeri är enligt svensk lag ett brott, som består i att någon medelst vilseledande förmår annan till handling eller till att underlåta något som medför vinning för gärningsmannen och skada för den vilseledde enligt 9 kap. 1 § brottsbalken(*). Viktigt är det faktum att vilseledande i princip kan bestå av vilken omständighet som helst, bara det finns ett orsakssamband mellan vilseledandet och handlingen eller underlåtenheten som leder till att något av icke ringa värde överförs från den vilseledde till gärningsmannen.

Fraud is under Swedish law, a crime which consists in any means capable of misleading another to act or to omit to do something involving the proceeds of the offender and the harm to the misled under Chapter 9. § 1 of the Penal Code(*). Important is the fact that misleading in principle consist of any circumstance whatsoever, just there is a causal connection between the deception and the act or omission that results in a non-negligible value is transferred from the misguided to the offender.
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* [URL="https://lagen.nu/1962:700#K9]https://lagen.nu/1962:700#K9[/URL]
 
KijkkiJikki said:
Any pedantry about the applicability of "scam" is a meaningless distraction.
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KJ pretty much nailed it. I can't see how this thread degenerated into discussion how little a lie to a customer should be to be acceptable, as if being a wee bit dishonest is any more possible than being a wee bit pregnant.

Disgusting.
 
One way to see it, is how much we should be able to trust people who apparently have "Resources" (ie imp fap SGA). After all, it's probably a 100+ value, and if not for the value of it, the rarity.

And then, if someone who exaggerates the performance of items he's Selling, if it's a beginner who doesn't know better, or if it is a professional.

SGA="Second Golden Age", right? (To clear up any misconception)
 
I don't agree with the tactic.

I do find it interesting that the players band together to collectively and actively devalue items, and justify it with an ethics or fairness basis....especially from anyone who has no interest in whatever item is being sold.

If people pay that much for SGA then that is what they paid...
I dont hear screams of scam from those who paid much higher prices for just about everything (which has been devalued by the community in this same manner) under false pretenses.

We are our own enemy.

For example, that rarity of an item...only to see it and many variations drop like candy. Or the many items that have disappeared completely. Items that replace crafted loot and such.

An example, I buy a set of armor, I list it...everyone runs to post how its not worth what I already paid, despite private offers of 40% profit(which I declined), because to those who are looking, or know what to look for, it is worth it. Where those who don't have, will never use, or bother to compare...will complain they cannot have it at the price that fits them.

not unlike here.

Again I don't agree at all with the tactic, but observe some contradictions on this very topic.
 
forgo said:
I don't agree with the tactic.

I do find it interesting that the players band together to collectively and actively devalue items, and justify it with an ethics or fairness basis....especially from anyone who has no interest in whatever item is being sold.
Click to expand...

The problem isn't the value of SGA items. Some of them are great, and some of them is just slightly better than their counterpart. (And some have no counterpart.)

The problem is when someone sells items claiming they have a property they doesn't have. If you consider that there is SGA armor and clothes(!), how would you explain the "skill bonus". Ok, if stats or descriptions says there is a skillbonus, but when the SGA items were released, the SGA had a well known meaning ("second golden age"), as opposed to "first golden age", when game turned live, and old items turned "pre-gold".

I do have SGA items (mostly bought from auction), and most of them only is around two "Points" better than the non-sga - so if you're implying that my (low-end) SGA-items are Worth way more, please tell me.
 
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Akbar said:
Sad that this forum is hidding the truth all the time with low rules...
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This forum is not 'hiding the truth', and the rule regarding scamming accusations is not 'low'; it is logical and responsible, as explained in clear detail here: Rationale for forum rule 2.13 - Scamming Accusation .

Akbar said:
But remember that PCF was first owned by mindark (even not for long).
and the rules stood like they were...
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The Scamming Accusation rule existed on EntropiaForum for years before PCF was even created.

Finally, MindArk has never owned PCF or EF. It was First Planet Company that was briefly involved with PCF. For more info, please see this thread: A brief history of PlanetCalypsoForum.
 
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