Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

SGA items and skill gain (support answered)

Angel O2 Mercer

Angel O2 Mercer

Marauder
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Posts
7,237
Location
Spain
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Angel O2 Mercer
My support case finally got answered.

This discussion is related to the following threads:

SGA Scam

SGA = Skill Gain Advantage


I created a support ticket asking for a definitive answer to the SGA items skilling capabilities that people have been throwing arround with not a single pixel of proof to back it up, to the point that some heartless bad apple tried to use it as a scamming method.


------------- MY SUPPORT CASE -------------
-------------------------------------------------
Ticket number is 287517, in case you want to validate it with your own ticket.


2014-08-28 19:21
Hello,

Some people are hinting that SGA items have special skilling bonuses, making them give more skills than they should.

Since, unfortunately, some people are getting scammed out of this bold statement can you please clarify wether this is true or not?


My precise inquiry is: If two items, one being normal and the other one the SGA version, have the same decay. Is it possible that the SGA version gives more skills than the regular one?

And to be even more specific, does the modified fap SGA give more skills than the regular modified fap?


Please take your time to answer to my question.

Thank you very much.
Click to expand...

2014-09-03 14:18
Hi O2,

The more PED you put through the "fap" the more skill you are entitled to by the system so if it costs more it gives more.

SGA should not yield more skill unless it costs more or is otherwise indicated, it will always be shown, nothing is hidden.

Kind regards,
Ulf | Entropia Universe Support
Click to expand...

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

Let's hope this puts an end to the SGA items scam and we don't hear nonsense like this ever again.

Skills gained === TT spent. End of story.

SGA means nothing skillwise. Deal with it or proof the contrary.

Cheers.


Interesting quotes: [ 1 ], [ 2 ]
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
My support case finally got answered.

This discussion is related to the following threads:

SGA Scam

SGA = Skill Gain Advantage


I created a support ticket asking for a definitive answer to the SGA items skilling capabilities that people have been throwing arround with not a single pixel of proof to back it up, to the point that some heartless bad apple tried to use it as a scamming method.


------------- MY SUPPORT CASE -------------
-------------------------------------------------
Ticket number is 287517, in case you want to validate it with your own ticket.






-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

Let's hope this puts an end to the SGA items scam and we don't hear nonsense like this ever again.

Skills gained === TT spent. End of story.

SGA means nothing skillwise. Deal with it or proof the contrary.

Cheers.


Interesting quotes: [ 1 ], [ 2 ]
Click to expand...


it only for regular items,

for example mod fap sga is an exception

ps. and "Skills gained === TT spent" is not quiet right.

Decay of gun = skills
decay of fap = skills


people noticed that if gun decay is bigger like 0x0 they get more skills tahn with impmk2
 
Thanks o2 for getting confirmation on what should be a common sense inquiry.

(That comment isn't snide)
 
ktpsmf said:
it only for regular items,

for example mod fap sga is an exception

ps. and "Skills gained === TT spent" is not quiet right.

Decay of gun = skills
decay of fap = skills


people noticed that if gun decay is bigger like 0x0 they get more skills tahn with impmk2
Click to expand...

You just said it isn't quite right then decided to contradict yourself. We aren't speaking of ammo.
 
+rep

Thanks for getting clarification :)
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
No, its not. Prove me wrong. Please.
Click to expand...

It's due to a misconception.

The Mod FAP SGA has more decay than the Mod Fap since it has more decay (as the above support answer would agree).

The issue is that people calculated the skill gains per pec and apparently in that data set they gained more value in skills (at that time MU) than the decay costs.
I believe that Mod FAP isn't far from doing so too, but since the decay is lower the skill gains and their value rise slower too. (If you get a Mod FAP or an healing tool with similiar economy you can check yourself).




Since most SGA items have more decay than their regular versions it is no surprize that they give more skills per use





But support didn't say that skill increase with extra decay is linear, so they didn't say that skill gains value per PEC spent is higher or lower. (to my knowledge even if the difference was 15% from expected line to actual value it would be hard for somebody to get nice data without huge ammounts of testing).
 
MG Mighty said:
snip...
Click to expand...

Both the mod fap and the mod fap SGA have the same decay, 1.000 PEC per click. Atleast entropedia has that information that nobody has ever changed so I took that information as correct.

Entropedia links:

mod fap, mod fap sga

imp fap, imp fap sga

Even if the mod fap sga had a tiny bit more decay than the regular one (like happens with the imp fap) it would only give a tiny bit more skills, not the massive magical skill gains that people were saying.

Once again, tt spent = skill gain. SGA means nothing skillwise. No bonus, no special feature, no magic involved.
 
I look on, amused :)
 
Can't speak about the SGA imp FAP, but the normal imp FAP has very low skillgain/pec. Some tests were done long ago and iirc it had lower skillgain/pec than other, less eco, FAPs. Think it was lavawalker maybe who did most of them? The thread is here somewhere.

So i would say that the skillgain/pec varies according to other factors. It's entirely possible that the SGA uberFAPs have better skillgain, but i very much doubt the entire line of SGA items are similarly better than non-SGA.
 
Doer said:
Can't speak about the SGA imp FAP, but the normal imp FAP has very low skillgain/pec. Some tests were done long ago and iirc it had lower skillgain/pec than other, less eco, FAPs. Think it was lavawalker maybe who did most of them? The thread is here somewhere.

So i would say that the skillgain/pec varies according to other factors. It's entirely possible that the SGA uberFAPs have better skillgain, but i very much doubt the entire line of SGA items are similarly better than non-SGA.
Click to expand...

I've owned both regular impfap and modfap and when I was healing with the modfap sga I instantly noticed the high skill gain from it without doing any tests at all. I did some testing just to confirm it and ofc it's lost in all my google docs spreadsheets so can't give out any numbers but it is indeed high. The current owner could prolly do a test for you to get more than just a guesstimate.

I've also been healing with a impfap sga and I didn't really notice any higher skillgain there so I'm not sure about it and I didn't do any testing with that fap.

At the time I did this I was running a modfap service and did a lot of hours so I had a pretty good reference to how the almost non-existant skillgain from hours of modfapping was (same goes for impfapping when I had that).

So if it is like support says that skill gain equals TT spent I should get way more skills when using impfap than modfap sga (or regular modfap) since the decay is double but that's 100% for sure just bullshit so there is more to it.

If you look up the sales thread Star made when he sold the modfap sga he did some test and posted the results in the thread.

Sidenote, hope that this doesn't bring it to MA's attention so they edit the skillgain from that fap for the current owners sake ^^
 
minim said:
......
Click to expand...

This thread? Can't find nothing else. No results or proof either.

11 times more skills with the same decay? not according to MA sorry.

OT;

Just to make things clear seeings as some people are mad at me:

I dont know any owner of the sga faps, none of them. I wish nothing but success to them and the purpose of this thread is to shed some light into the SGA skill bonus thing.

Nothing would make me happier than someone proving the super magical skilling properties of the SGA faps, but since NOBODY provides any data or proof I will believe what MA has told us when asked directly.

And still, nobody provides any proof. Again.


Flame me if you want, I dont really care.

:rolleyes:
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
I will believe what MA has told us when asked directly.
Click to expand...

He could have possibly not understood your question as well.. I do recall a time in the past where someone posted up a similar thread to another topic about damage enhancers and support telling them one thing but then the developer notes stating a completely different thing.

I could ask support directly about 1000's of different things that refer to EU but would they know it all? There was one support case where the representative that answered my case had no clue that the A20x series amplifiers were crafted in old time and admitted to me that he had just started working for MindArk.

~Danimal
 
danimal01 said:
He could have possibly not understood your question as well.. I do recall a time in the past where someone posted up a similar thread to another topic about damage enhancers and support telling them one thing but then the developer notes stating a completely different thing.

I could ask support directly about 1000's of different things that refer to EU but would they know it all? There was one support case where the representative that answered my case had no clue that the A20x series amplifiers were crafted in old time and admitted to me that he had just started working for MindArk.

~Danimal
Click to expand...

Yes, no doubt. And they could be lying too.

But the people making the original claim still have not shown any data to back it up.

I don't know mate... it's like talking to a wall.
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
This thread? Can't find nothing else. No results or proof either.

11 times more skills with the same decay? not according to MA sorry.

OT;

Just to make things clear seeings as some people are mad at me:

I dont know any owner of the sga faps, none of them. I wish nothing but success to them and the purpose of this thread is to shed some light into the SGA skill bonus thing.

Nothing would make me happier than someone proving the super magical skilling properties of the SGA faps, but since NOBODY provides any data or proof I will believe what MA has told us when asked directly.

And still, nobody provides any proof. Again.


Flame me if you want, I dont really care.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


I wanna know what you call proof?? If all owners say so, and they gladly pay up to 100k extra for a mod fap that gives more skills and all that have used it states the same???

Is playerbase entries in entropedia proof?? Or is this general answer from a guy at MindArk support proof??

To a guy like you that dont trust nobody but yourself and obviously not ppl like luke dalas that uses the mod SGA at the moment, not selling it trying to push value but dreaming of buying it???

The only "proof" if you dont trust what the owners tell you in this game is to try it yourself, simple!? I can provide collateral enough for you to test it so we dont have to listen as you discredit so many ppl dur to your own insecurity!
 
Take two simple small faps...

Hedoc Mayhem, Adj Hedoc Mayhem

The Hedoc Mayhem drops very little skill, and decays hughly
Even with x4 Heal Enhancers, which causes it to decay MASSIVLY, skills are almost non-existent

The Adj Hedoc Mayhem, even tho faster rate of fire, a bit less decay...
It gives a steady stream of skills,
Even if you fire it off one random heal at a time youll see more skill drops + effect in Progress Bar


MA gave you a generic response to most items in general, but ive owned many UL gun's and im certian
skill drops on certain weapons, no matter there decay + ammo burn or how much ped you can manage
to push threw them.... Simply give more skill then others

Keep asking... Ulf's a great guy in helping here, but those out there using this stuff hours and hours
know whats up...
 
I'll try to answer to you Linzey as best as I can:

krogfan said:
I wanna know what you call proof?? If all owners say so, and they gladly pay up to 100k extra for a mod fap that gives more skills and all that have used it states the same???
Click to expand...

Well, some skill scans before and after would be nice. At this point even screenshots would do I guess. With a regular one, and then with the sga. Something like that. You are right it's still not proof, but some data is better than none.

krogfan said:
Is playerbase entries in entropedia proof?? Or is this general answer from a guy at MindArk support proof??
Click to expand...

I didnt say entropedia was proof of anything. My first reflex is to believe what the MA support team says, yes. Because you know, they are the ones who made the game and all that...

krogfan said:
To a guy like you that dont trust nobody but yourself and obviously not ppl like luke dalas that uses the mod SGA at the moment, not selling it trying to push value but dreaming of buying it???
Click to expand...

The problem here is not who I trust, the problem is to back up your claims with some little data. I have no interest in those items at all. Dalas is cool yes.

krogfan said:
The only "proof" if you dont trust what the owners tell you in this game is to try it yourself, simple!? I can provide collateral enough for you to test it so we dont have to listen as you discredit so many ppl dur to your own insecurity!
Click to expand...

What insecurity? please elaborate.


EDIT: I almost forgot, I have a question for you: Proving that those faps give bonus skills would increase the faps value right?
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
This thread? Can't find nothing else. No results or proof either.

11 times more skills with the same decay? not according to MA sorry.

OT;

Just to make things clear seeings as some people are mad at me:

I dont know any owner of the sga faps, none of them. I wish nothing but success to them and the purpose of this thread is to shed some light into the SGA skill bonus thing.

Nothing would make me happier than someone proving the super magical skilling properties of the SGA faps, but since NOBODY provides any data or proof I will believe what MA has told us when asked directly.

And still, nobody provides any proof. Again.


Flame me if you want, I dont really care.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yeah it was that one. I would recommend you to contact Linzey ingame and do the test yourself if in doubt :) It would prolly also be possible to arrange a regular modfap to do that test incase you don't have access to one.
 
minim said:
Yeah it was that one. I would recommend you to contact Linzey ingame and do the test yourself if in doubt :) It would prolly also be possible to arrange a regular modfap to do that test incase you don't have access to one.
Click to expand...

We could do that yes, no problem from my side. It doesn't have to be me either.

Someone does 2 runs healing on the same mob for the same amount of time. One run with regular mod fap, one run with mod fap sga. He tracks lets say Paramedic skill gains using the skill progress panel. And shares the result.

If that guy is me I can heal you for free Linzey (you repair faps), you choose what to hunt tho. I will also stream everything so everyone can see.

Dalas told me there's only one mod sga, so I hope the owner is up for it.

That experiment would be pretty definitive in my opinion.

Anyway you shouldn't take this personal linzey, that wasn't my intention at all. I didn't even know who owns what.

PS: We can do the test with imp sga too.
 
Last edited:
You were either there during SGA or.... you weren't.


Some of us looted / bought SGA items. :)


Good work on getting definitive answer!
 
Just so its known, Exsolvus Exo Nex is the owner of mod fap sga.. An actual test of skilling would be interesting for sure on a comparative basis.
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
We could do that yes, no problem from my side. It doesn't have to be me either.

Someone does 2 runs healing on the same mob for the same amount of time. One run with regular mod fap, one run with mod fap sga. He tracks lets say Paramedic skill gains using the skill progress panel. And shares the result.

If that guy is me I can heal you for free Linzey (you repair faps), you choose what to hunt tho. I will also stream everything so everyone can see.

Dalas told me there's only one mod sga, so I hope the owner is up for it.

That experiment would be pretty definitive in my opinion.

Anyway you shouldn't take this personal linzey, that wasn't my intention at all. I didn't even know who owns what.

PS: We can do the test with imp sga too.
Click to expand...

Not so sure I would have wasted time on imp sga. If there is a skill advantage it is a lot smaller than on the mod sga.
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
tt spent = skill gain
Click to expand...

MA didn't say that.
You are creating there a false rumor



According to the support information that you provided:
The more PED you put through the "fap" the more skill you are entitled to by the system so if it costs more it gives more.

SGA should not yield more skill unless it costs more or is otherwise indicated, it will always be shown, nothing is hidden.
Click to expand...

In no where do I see a mention of a linear correlation between decay and skill gains.


To make it clear what I'm trying to say
the correlation between decay and skill gains could have 2 horizontal asymptotes and somehow the actual factors that triggered the skill gains in the Mod FAP SGA could make the output be set to the top value line
(example of a two horizontal asymptotes y= arctag (x) found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptote)



(also I must remember that correlation is different from causation).








Angel O2 Mercer said:
Dalas told me there's only one mod sga, so I hope the owner is up for it.

That experiment would be pretty definitive in my opinion.
Click to expand...


Why would he do it ?

If it is true that Mod FAP SGA give "unreasonable" ammount of skills then:

he would not want the griffers to raise the pitchfork and go to MA to nerf his item

if it is not true and it "only" gives 2 times the skill value per pec spent (compared to normal mod fap)

he won't want the potential buyers to back away due to perceived lower value
claiming ignorance of the actual value on how better the skill gains are
and point it out that even MA tells that the skill gains should be better.



So if you aren't buying a Mod FAP SGA why would the owner care for your opinion ?
 
Last edited:
Mod fap sga was giving skills same as simple hedoc, that is why it was so uber.

Mod sga fap was only one of this kind , not imp sga or so on.

People having mod sga faps was standing for days fapping afk in fields where mobs can hit. and was selling skills.

it was made since Sga time, so nerfing it would rize unhappy people wave and uber item price drop knowing that mindark can change old item stats.

So that will never happen and ma will never nerf it.

There is alot more old scool items taht give uber skill bonus but from faps is only mod fap.
 
ktpsmf said:
Mod fap sga was giving skills same as simple hedoc, that is why it was so uber.

Mod sga fap was only one of this kind , not imp sga or so on.

People having mod sga faps was standing for days fapping afk in fields where mobs can hit. and was selling skills.

it was made since Sga time, so nerfing it would rize unhappy people wave and uber item price drop knowing that mindark can change old item stats.

So that will never happen and ma will never nerf it.

There is alot more old scool items taht give uber skill bonus but from faps is only mod fap.
Click to expand...

there is only one modfap sga and its not correct that a regular modfap has skill bonus.
 
Divinity said:
Just so its known, Exsolvus Exo Nex is the owner of mod fap sga.. An actual test of skilling would be interesting for sure on a comparative basis.
Click to expand...

Indeed i'm the current owner of the Mod SGA Fap

But I really see no benefit or reason at the current time to provide proof on the ( for arguments sake, let's use the term 'rumored' ;) ) extra skill-gains on it vs normal mod-faps, as i don't have any whatsoever interest to sell the tool :)

However, anyone that has actually used the tool (and there are a bunch of them) would say the same thing :)
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
We could do that yes, no problem from my side. It doesn't have to be me either.

Someone does 2 runs healing on the same mob for the same amount of time. One run with regular mod fap, one run with mod fap sga. He tracks lets say Paramedic skill gains using the skill progress panel. And shares the result.
Click to expand...

Just be careful in tests like this that they are of long enough duration to capture all the ups and downs both in skillgain/pec and type of skillgain. Like almost every loot type in the game, there can be a pretty large "dynamic" variation over days or weeks/tens-hundreds peds of uses, so to be conclusive it would have to be a long test.
 
Isn't this about the player misrepresenting the name of the tool in order to inflate the price? Whether it does or doesn't give more skill gains is irrelevant in my opinion. The player has blatantly lied about what SGA stands for. SGA in the description has no bearing on skill gains. In my opinion, giving such an obviously false description of the tool means he is trying to inflate the price, which I conclude is a scam.
 
Last edited:
Doer said:
Just be careful in tests like this that they are of long enough duration to capture all the ups and downs both in skillgain/pec and type of skillgain. Like almost every loot type in the game, there can be a pretty large "dynamic" variation over days or weeks/tens-hundreds peds of uses, so to be conclusive it would have to be a long test.
Click to expand...

This can be tested in 30min if you are below lvl 40-50ish paramedic. The regular modfap will give close to nothing in skills and is prolly not enough to move even a point but the mod sga should give enough to easy spot it with the skill scanner. There's no magic to this like some seems to believe and the difference is so big that it won't be a problem to see it ^^

Since the owner don't want it tested it's not much point to discussing how to do it :p I bet that most of the guys that have used this tool knows how it works and knows that the statement from MA is a direct lie or maybe a misunderstanding of the question asked. I don't think this is the case for every sga item since I didn't notice anything with the imp sga. Did anyone ask Stryker or Neo sharp about their mod merc sga's?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top