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Bugged Deeds?

Oleg said:
They won't make a public comment about a private matter.
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This (initially) private matter has become not only public, but public interest regarding the general rights we have, and the general liberties MA have given themselves to take with our possessions. It's now put into question whether or not you can (dis)trust MA in (not) at a whim stealing items from you without punishment.

Stop behaving like you don't understand that.

My view is: If this clusterfuck doesn't warrant a public response from MA, I guess (their view is) nothing ever will.
 
Oleg said:
They won't make a public comment about a private matter. If any of the people involved want to share any further private communication they've had with MA, that is up to them.
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As the matter became public already AND involves planet partner and the community, as well as value of possible investments it is not a purely private matter anymore. That being said, i do not expect them to fully disclose everything, but a short statement and a general statement which outlines how things like that are prevented to happen in future would already be enough. I don't say they should make every detail public of what happened and will happen in this specific case, that is indeed up to the invloved parties to share.

What is in our interest as community in this case is, how safe is the stuff we buy and how can MA prevent in future that som ething like that happens again.

BR
 
aia said:
I Think the hired staff were fired "the american way" (ie, "you get one hour to Clean your desk and put your belongings in a box. Then a guard will Escort you out.")
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No, they only do that when the owners care about the company assets.
 
tamlin said:
This (initially) private matter has become not only public, but public interest regarding the general rights we have, and the general liberties MA have given themselves to take with our possessions.
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You can see this bothways.

On one hand, the fact that someone who bought land area deeds was told by seller, that there is only a technical problem with not being able to claim the deeds.

On the other hand, these are landareas that never have been claimed, from the beginning (probably), and given the time it's been this way and the fact only "founders" have land areas on NI, the land areas most likely were not supposed to be traded. The fact that they never were ment to be traded were shown in the "first" support response (to Narfi). Narfi then decided to sell these anyway.

The reason why MA seized the deeds is obvious, though kind of harsh: As the deeds has been traded ingame thogh they weren't supposed to be, they had to be taken "out of circulation". Between the lines in the support ticket, the responsibility to fix up the trade is currently between Narfi and Fatal; MA won't force trade reversal as it's their policy not to do it, but the meaning is, the trade chain of the deeds is supposed to be "roll backed". Also wondering why MA mentioned out-of-game trades, when both Marius and Fatal claimed that deeds were paid for in-game. What makes this a bit uglier, is that fatal didn't pay it in full - that the seller (Narfi) claims an Active debt (and not saying "let's wait with the final payment until there has been a proper decision from MA).

Besides these two deeds (not sure exactly which land areas it is), you can wonder where the deeds for the other Three land areas are. If they are "safe" with old NI management, or if they are in inventory of someone else, just waiting to be put on the market if MA resolves this by enabling the land areas. I wouldn't expect any answer here from NI management, but it would be nice to know if Narfi or Maximus has the missing deeds, or if someone knows who currently has them.

One solution could be that instead of land areas (as there currently aren't any traded land areas on NI), that Fatal receives something with a market value Close to what he paid. Or maybe a promise to a land area on NI in case NI in the future will have private land areas. Maybe replace the deeds with something else. Just enabling the land areas as a "technical fix" doesn't feel like a 100% Clean solution - especially on a planet that doesn't have a land area market.
 
HardWrath said:
With the limited amount of information that all of us have, there is plenty of room for us to argue endlessly about who is to blame and why.... On a web forum, that discussion is to be expected.

The part that I'm focused on is trying to get an expedient resolution that's fair for Fatal, MindArk, and the community as a whole. My main concern is the stability of the EU economy. I don't want to see people selling out, or hesitant to make investments here, because of the poorly thought out actions by one Planet Partner that was on his way out.

It's a valid point because it certainly seems that the rules in place now didn't apply to Marius for whatever reason... Perhaps because they weren't in place then?

Marius should elaborate further on that point.
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I am not entirely sure when that rule was written by EU regarding employee characters. When I created my avatar I was a player and a player I remained. I was introduced and connected with DP and the NI team to try and use my community management experience from other games to help grow NI as a contractor. All I did was hop onto NI daily and try to organize group events along with trying to setup and admin the NI forum. That is all I ever did for DP and NI. Again from my knowledge I was never reported to MA as a employee avatar and continued to play as a player by investing my own money into my account to hunt, mine, and craft.
 
@ Marius, the real question is why you got those deeds, for personal use (payment) or for holding events as part of your community job.
As you pointed out earlier, even you are unshure of this.
I do have another question for you, don't feel obligated to answer if if you don't want to tho
The peds you received for those deeds, where they taken out of the game in the form of an official withdrawal.
My curiousity is the fact that it takes MA 3 months to check & approve a withdrawal, surely they SHOULD'VE noticed the lands where sold then..

Das
 
Marius said:
I am not entirely sure when that rule was written by EU regarding employee characters. When I created my avatar I was a player and a player I remained. I was introduced and connected with DP and the NI team to try and use my community management experience from other games to help grow NI as a contractor. All I did was hop onto NI daily and try to organize group events along with trying to setup and admin the NI forum. That is all I ever did for DP and NI. Again from my knowledge I was never reported to MA as a employee avatar and continued to play as a player by investing my own money into my account to hunt, mine, and craft.
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So you are saying that you were not involved in any way, shape, or form with the development of anything in-game at all and that the entire extent of your "work" for Next Island took place exclusively out of game on their forums?
 
Marius,
Please clarify a status of Crystal Resort Gift Shop. It was a payment for a job, gift, or Shop was purchased by you?
 
das said:
@ Marius, the real question is why you got those deeds, for personal use (payment) or for holding events as part of your community job.
As you pointed out earlier, even you are unshure of this.
I do have another question for you, don't feel obligated to answer if if you don't want to tho
The peds you received for those deeds, where they taken out of the game in the form of an official withdrawal.
My curiousity is the fact that it takes MA 3 months to check & approve a withdrawal, surely they SHOULD'VE noticed the lands where sold then..

Das
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I have already said why I got them. Whether people choose to believe me or not is on that individual. I wish Meg or heck even David Post would comment (although betting Meg forgot about it all, and knowing DP he has no clue really). Either way I did have the LA deeds. I tried for a long time to get them working and had no luck. Narfi took them off my hands with the knowledge and risk associated with them not working, my support requests, and MA dragging their feet to get them working one day or not since again contact with DP was non-existent.

As for the peds from the trade I think some is still on my account the rest was used to hunt in all honesty. Hunting which of course turned up at a loss.

And to add to some other things people have mentioned. If MA knew that these deeds should not have been in my hands then why after my 10+ support cases and years of having them did they not remove them back then? Why did they just keep telling me to get in contact with David Post to get them working or resolve the issue. If MA had knowledge of my avatar being a official avatar or not, should have been noted from the get go by their first reply to me. If this was all the case and they told me that, I would have asked them to remove them from my account or they would still be sitting on my account doing nothing. MA never stated any of that to me nor the whole "do not trade or sell..." statement that everyone thinks they did...

So for all the naysayers go ahead and pick apart this post and point out the wrong things I have said...

Gewitter said:
Found discussion about my Shop:
http://www.nextislandforum.com/threads/gift-shops.303/

Shop was gifted from ND to ENZO Marius Romanus?

No answer found. Maybe only Neverdie can clarify this fact, or maybe Marius.
If it was really gifted (or sold), my Shop is legitimate 100%
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Yes the shop was gifted to me by ND and his team...
 
HardWrath said:
So you are saying that you were not involved in any way, shape, or form with the development of anything in-game at all and that the entire extent of your "work" for Next Island took place exclusively out of game on their forums?
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I was only in game to help try to run some simple events for new players to NI. Like tours if you will. Other than that I spent time trying to setup and admin the official NI forum. While doing that I also helped write some quests for NI that I sent over to Meg and DP but were never implemented. Now if writing some quests count as in game dev then I guess I was. But again they were never put into the game. (They were some really fun and entertaining quests too... :( ) I took it upon my self to write the quests without instruction from Meg or DP. So that was all on me...
 
Don't get me wrong Marius, I'm not trying to offend you or even judge you..
Just wonna know all the facts b4 I make up my own mind about this situation
 
das said:
Don't get me wrong Marius, I'm not trying to offend you or even judge you..
Just wonna know all the facts b4 I make up my own mind about this situation
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Completely understood :) There are always going to be different sides to everything. It just takes time to weed through all the BS. In the end if I am found at fault because MA did not clearly indicate to me details of the deeds then so be it. But again I am not here to avoid blame or point blame. I can only give my side of things as best I can.
 
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aia said:
Do you know where the deeds for the other Three land areas are?
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I assume still on the NextIsland Manager account (not sure if that is the correct name or not). This is the account that Meg used to trade me.
 
Marius said:
All I did was hop onto NI daily and try to organize group events along with trying to setup and admin the NI forum.
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Wait, you ran ingame events and modded a forum for a short period of time, and you got a Land Deed?


:cussing: FUCK!!!!






OK, just kidding. :laugh: I had to do something to break the ice here. Seriously, 7 full-sized pages (300+ posts) and a ton of you are just going around in circles.

There's been plenty of summations of the whole convoluted issue, but hey. What's one more?

  • Obviously the way PP were run back in the beginning were "loosey goosey".
  • Someone who did work (but may not have officially worked for, meaning received taxed paychecks) was left holding an item they received.
  • The purpose of that item was to be used only as a tool to encourage planet participation by other players.
  • Whether the taxes from that item was intended to go to the player as compensation for their work is, perhaps, unclear. (Unless it was specified here and I missed it.)
  • That person perhaps felt bummed at not making the money they hoped from from their gig, once the company was dissolved.
  • Note, the NI company was dissolved, but all ingame items/activities remained in effect, and left in an "as is" stasis.
  • One day, that player, (ex. PP assistant) saw that other land deeds fetched nice money.
  • After tons of support cases get you nowhere, and you got nothing left that can be used to save your wallet from this failed venture, well....:scratch: :idea:
  • From there MA seems to have "strongly hinted" that the deed was invalid ingame for trades, even though it's database setting was never set to p2pTrade=0.
  • However, many parties figured that if enough SC were sent, then eventually MA might fix the LA, thus making the deed have actual worth.
  • Instead, MA decided that since folks weren't getting the hint that this item wasn't a valid ingame tradable item, they simply removed it from ingame.

Is anything in this summation incorrect?

TL;DR Version: :popcorn:
 
JC,

maybe add that for like 2 years, MA hinted through support cases of both marius, narfi, fatal that the deeds could be fixed or some reckoning achieved by talking to NI development team (David Post, et all)
 
Shapememory said:
JC,

maybe add that for like 2 years, MA hinted through support cases of both marius, narfi, fatal that the deeds could be fixed or some reckoning achieved by talking to NI development team (David Post, et all)
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I think that's the important part. MA' typically trying to push off responsibility to any party they can. instead of just from the start fixing the issue.

is that not what a support case is for? to get technical support from the company we financially support? how absolutely ridiculous that this took years to resolve, and then was mis managed with no thought to the customers affected.

in typical Entropia fashion though, we burn each other at the stake trying to find fault in each other as we turn a blind eye to the real issue(s). I guess its easier to sleep at night and keep depositing when we don't face the monster MA has become.
 
I've done game development for 14 years. If this was my company, we would fix the land area... not confiscate it. In fact, this would have been solved years ago. Mainly because I would realize that the item has monetary value. You can't just take it. It is theft and while the eula might allow for it to be taken, it is the optics that count in a game in which a shattered reputation could kill it overnight.

My la has been broken since I got it but ark has been more than forthcoming to repair and fix all the issues that may or may not be in their control.. and for some of that.. ark will be better as a whole.
 
Farmer Smurf said:
I think that's the important part. MA' typically trying to push off responsibility to any party they can. instead of just from the start fixing the issue.
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That would have seem to be the case several times so far, yes.

Farmer Smurf said:
in typical Entropia fashion though, we burn each other at the stake trying to find fault in each other as we turn a blind eye to the real issue(s). I guess its easier to sleep at night and keep depositing when we don't face the monster MA has become.
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Well, atleast i was trying to look into how MA could fix this, not to cast any blame.
 
Cail said:
Well, atleast i was trying to look into how MA could fix this, not to cast any blame.
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Yes as were many, it just seems a trend that this community fights each other while those in power profit from it.
 
Seems governments are doing this more often too... and you know why? It works.
 
After reading through this thread and several others, I think there have been enough mistakes made here, and a slice of blame can be laid upon everyone.

This situation however, is also an excellent opportunity for the new CEO of MindArk to step in put a stamp on his reign.

Make this right for the players even if it costs you some short-term capital. The goodwill you generate with your players will more than make up for it in the long run. Step up and take control of Next Island. Post and his people have long abandoned it, and it is now your responsibility.

Show us players, your loyal paying customers/investors, that you are above this and make it right.
 
Arch Angel said:
After reading through this thread and several others, I think there have been enough mistakes made here, and a slice of blame can be laid upon everyone.

This situation however, is also an excellent opportunity for the new CEO of MindArk to step in put a stamp on his reign.

Make this right for the players even if it costs you some short-term capital. The goodwill you generate with your players will more than make up for it in the long run. Step up and take control of Next Island. Post and his people have long abandoned it, and it is now your responsibility.

Show us players, your loyal paying customers/investors, that you are above this and make it right.
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That's the problem, as i was reviewing on what could be done by MA, no-one's sure about the actual state of NI really, and how it would work out legally, so that MA wouldn't get themselves burned with it.
We don't know what the PP contracts say, this might be a big headache at MA's office too, on how to resolve it, so maybe that's why it's taking some time.
 
Farmer Smurf said:
yeah because MA has always reacted fast to every other issue...oh wait, never.
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Well, they have, but only on few cases that i recall, they *could* react faster sure.
But, as i said, there might be more to it internally, and they just can't.
I'm sure that enough support cases have been sent, and this has been public enough, that they will try to bring it to an end.
(After all, they did already initiate it by removing the LA's from an avatars inventory)
 
atomicstorm said:
If this was my company, we would fix the land area... not confiscate it.
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Would it also be a "fix" to implement a privately owned and tradeable land area where there isn't supposed to be privately owned land areas besides those managed by the developers?
 
Arch Angel said:
After reading through this thread and several others, I think there have been enough mistakes made here, and a slice of blame can be laid upon everyone.

This situation however, is also an excellent opportunity for the new CEO of MindArk to step in put a stamp on his reign.

Make this right for the players even if it costs you some short-term capital. The goodwill you generate with your players will more than make up for it in the long run. Step up and take control of Next Island. Post and his people have long abandoned it, and it is now your responsibility.

Show us players, your loyal paying customers/investors, that you are above this and make it right.
Click to expand...

I agree and I can make a proposition!
MA should find a solution with David Post (at last)and give the opportunity to players to get a piece of N.I. and save the planet from oblivion.... by what better than... "deeds!
Next Island deeds! That's a good viable solution!
I believe there are many participants who will find this interesting as an investement.

But idk if this is possible ;/
 
Me for 1 hope Nairf dont leave the game

nairf always been hoest as far as i see it...hes been a asset to the game.... promoted RT when everyone left....
 
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