Testing automated limiting of posts in Selling forum.

To bring more order and fairness to the Selling forum and to reduce the amount of time PCF staff spends on dealing with issues in that section, I have installed a forum mod which allows the admin to limit the number of posts per day within the Selling forum.

**CURRENT SETTINGS**
2 threads max per day
6 posts max per day

Note that creating a thread also counts as a post, so if you create 2 new threads you would only be able to make 4 other posts in the Selling subforum that day. Similarly, if you have already made 6 posts in one day, you will not be able to create any new threads until the next day.

Please report any errors or unexpected behavior related to posting in the Selling forum in this thread.

Well.. I am locked out of bumping my thread with only one post to it.. which means that replying to a question and such to said thread also counts and asking a question in someone else's thread. I assume this is intended but complicates things a bit.

711 said:

To bring more order and fairness to the Selling forum and to reduce the amount of time PCF staff spends on dealing with issues in that section, I have installed a forum mod which allows the admin to limit the number of posts per day within the Selling forum.

The current setting is 2 posts/1 thread per day. Note that creating a new thread also counts as a post with regard to the daily posts limit.

Please report any errors or unexpected behavior related to posting in the Selling forum in this thread.

Click to expand...

Will editing the post count for the limit ?

atomicstorm said:

Well.. I am locked out of bumping my thread with only one post to it.. which means that replying to a question and such to said thread also counts and asking a question in someone else's thread. I assume this is intended but complicates things a bit.

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If editing a previous post doesn't count for the limit I will see people reserving the second post (or one in the first page) of a thread to adress the doubts which are presented further along the thread.

Ok, let's try it and see how it goes.

I'll have to further consolidate threads and there will need to be some flexibility for those of us who manage ongoing consolidated selling threads when we need to list a specific item in auction for a week.

I understand the clutter that we would see if everyone made a sales thread and then listed in auction. The rule is a good rule, but for ongoing consolidated threads, I think there should be a bit more flexibility. Regardless if some items are listed on auction, the thread will still exist and get bumped. So for those threads, the rule is pointless anyway.

Sounds good, I may put the sales threads back into the New Posts page.

sounds like a good idea!

It sounds like a good idea to have some form of cap on the sales forum but 2 posts/day seems a bit low to me, i assume since this is a new feature it will be adjusted in future if need be. Overall, good initiative.

Cheers
Zweshi

I think it's bugged. I'm not able to post in the selling section, it says i've reached my max, but I haven't posted there yet today. Perhaps it's looking to see if your total post # anywhere is more than 2?

Great idea and thanks for the implementation.

But I think it should be taken a step further. I think the main concern is not people bumping their threads more then once a day. I think the real issue is the fact that people make 10+ threads to blanket the new posts section with their sales.

See if you can get an auto thread merging tool to stop the massive wall of spam from a single person.

Finally, thank you for implementing this plugin and limiting spam generated by some people!

HardWrath said:

I think there should be a bit more flexibility. Regardless if some items are listed on auction, the thread will still exist and get bumped. So for those threads, the rule is pointless anyway.

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Simple solution and no need for trying to be privileged to bend rules.
Just edit thread and remove item that is on in game auction. Add it again if it is not on AH.

sidxx said:

Great idea and thanks for the implementation.

But I think it should be taken a step further. I think the main concern is not people bumping their threads more then once a day. I think the real issue is the fact that people make 10+ threads to blanket the new posts section with their sales.

See if you can get an auto thread merging tool to stop the massive wall of spam from a single person.

Click to expand...

If I understood correctly you would be able to post in two threads per day. If you create new thread it counts as one post so you can create one and bump another or just bump two existing threads.
At the end you are limited to have two threads "on top". Huge improvement from what we saw till today by some spammers.


Only problem now will be to deal with new profession - bumpers.
Whether authentic or second+accounts to unfairly bump selling threads.
I bet now will be loads of 'friends' asking obvious things in sale threads....

Teiwaz Storm said:

Simple solution and no need for trying to be privileged to bend rules.
Just edit thread and remove item that is on in game auction. Add it again if it is not on AH.

Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with being privileged and everything to do with the time involved in maintaining an ongoing sales thread that has dozens of items being added and removed. Its easy to forget to remove something from the thread thats sold or thats on auction, or otherwise to re-add something thats fallen off auction unsold, or whatever. I try to go through once per day or at least every other day and update the thread but its easy to forget things.

Like the admin is trying to do here, I am trying to minimize my amount of work in the forum. I am not the only one who has an ongoing high sales volume consolidated sales thread.

Due to the fact that I often have more than one of the same item for sale, its IMPOSSIBLE for any of you to determine whether or not I am in compliance with PCF rules with regard to listing items on auction and having an active sales thread on them.

What I have tried to do in the past is when I put something on auction, in the consolidated thread I simply would mark it "On AH" and remove the price on the thread. However, some sniveling little thread police like to go through my sales threads and report them as being in violation of the rules. This then results in having Serica up my ass requesting that I edit my threads.

So what I am doing here, is simply pointing out what should be obvious, that for consolidated sales threads the current rules aren't optimal for anyone, most especially thread owners and forum moderators.

HardWrath said:

Its easy to forget to remove something from the thread thats sold or thats on auction, or otherwise to re-add something thats fallen off auction unsold, or whatever. I try to go through once per day or at least every other day and update the thread but its easy to forget things.

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Sure, we are only humans and we make mistakes but I highly doubt that you would get any problems fore genuine overlook once in a while.
That said, all should do our best to update thread when item is put on in-game auction.

Argument that it's hard to update consolidated thread is not valid in my opinion because soon most resellers will have consolidated threads now due to limit, meaning that all could use same excuse for having items for sale here while they are on AH.

I have respect for sellers like Divinity,who minimized sale threads long time ago. He edits them quite often and shows that it could be done.
At the same time it makes me furious when some other people post 20 sale threads in a row or bump their new thread one minute after creating it (yes, it happened today)....

Teiwaz Storm said:

Argument that it's hard to update consolidated thread is not valid in my opinion because soon most resellers will have consolidated threads now due to limit, meaning that all could use same excuse for having items for sale here while they are on AH.

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And if people with ongoing multi-item consolidated threads have some items that are also on auction, so what? It hurts no one and it inconveniences no one. Additionally, if the PCF rules specifically allow it for on consolidated threads, then it reduces the workload for PCF admin/mods which is the point if the whole post quantity policy change in the first place.

I have one post in the last 24 hrs (before the change) and can not currently post in the selling section.

Congratulations!
PCF just gained a few hundred "New" users.

HardWrath said:

And if people with ongoing multi-item consolidated threads have some items that are also on auction, so what? It hurts no one and it inconveniences no one. Additionally, if the PCF rules specifically allow it for on consolidated threads, then it reduces the workload for PCF admin/mods which is the point if the whole post quantity policy change in the first place.

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Personally I don't have anything against listing here items that are listed in game.
However to be fair it should not be limited to "multi-item consolidated threads". Not only resellers should be able to double list item - everybody should be treated evenly. That would mean that there would be shitload of threads about selling Animal Oils or any other items.
That's where it makes sense that there it rule not allowing to double list items for sale.

So why you just can't accept that same rules apply to everybody?
If you are not lazy and do your part then you reduce work for PCF staff, so no need to change rules just for you.

Does an edit count as a post.

No cap on editing right?

Teiwaz Storm said:

Personally I don't have anything against listing here items that are listed in game.
However to be fair it should not be limited to "multi-item consolidated threads". Not only resellers should be able to double list item - everybody should be treated evenly. That would mean that there would be shitload of threads about selling Animal Oils or any other items.
That's where it makes sense that there it rule not allowing to double list items for sale.

So why you just can't accept that same rules apply to everybody?
If you are not lazy and do your part then you reduce work for PCF staff, so no need to change rules just for you.

Click to expand...

Why do you think the proposed rule change would apply only to some people and not others? Resellers arent the only people who have consolidated sales threads, especially now.

If someone wants to make a consolidated sales thread that includes silly stuff like oils, so what? If its one thread with multiple items who cares?

All that I'm saying is that for consolidated threads the rule has no benefit and only creates more work for forum mods as well as item sellers.

So, I commented on one or two sales threads (belonging to other avatars), and bid in another. Now I go to bump my one thread, and I am blocked. I would say this is a fail.

What this prevents is: me, and others like me from every posting helpful comments in trading threads, or making bids in the thread itself. Why waste my precious two posts on someone else's thread???

well. my first reaction was.. "this is crap"
just first thought.. limitations suck.

but then....after thinking about it and considering 711's reasoning.. it kinda makes sense.

and then I heard Hardwraths point of view; perhaps the limitation shouldn't be as strong as it is?

so I'm not against it; kinda like the idea atm..

it does act as a built in spam filter in a way.
prevents people from trolling.. or limits trolls to two rude comments per thread.. so maybe they won't even do it?

it prevents arguments over pricing etc..

so, weighing the pros and cons; I thinking I'm leaning towards the FOR rather than against side right now...

ah.. yes.. it does prevent the bidding structure, good point sledge; that's kind of a big CON for this whole thing.......

but hey 711; if you could somehow program a bidding structure.. maybe an AUCTION-style thread.. haha that'd be cool. people can just click in their bids.. (not chitter chatter) kinda like how we have voting additions to threads, enable a bidding addition (for sales threads)

To respond to a couple of the issues raised so far:

sledgehammer said:

So, I commented on one or two sales threads (belonging to other avatars), and bid in another. Now I go to bump my one thread, and I am blocked. I would say this is a fail.

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That's odd, Sledge.

Looking at your recent posts in the Trading section, I see only 1 bid about 12hrs ago, no bumps in any other Trading thread, and your last bump in your own selling thread was on 15Sept. You do have other posts in non-Trading threads though.

This may be the same issue as Neil Stockton raised:

Neil Stockton said:

I think it's bugged. I'm not able to post in the selling section, it says i've reached my max, but I haven't posted there yet today. Perhaps it's looking to see if your total post # anywhere is more than 2?

Click to expand...

711 may have to adjust the settings he's put in place if it's currently including non-Trading posts in the count for the limit.

sledgehammer said:

What this prevents is: me, and others like me from every posting helpful comments in trading threads, or making bids in the thread itself. Why waste my precious two posts on someone else's thread???

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There's nothing to stop those who have their own Trading thread from sending a bid to another seller by PM. The seller can then acknowledge that bid in their daily thread-bump post.

sidxx said:

...I think the main concern is not people bumping their threads more then once a day. I think the real issue is the fact that people make 10+ threads to blanket the new posts section with their sales.

See if you can get an auto thread merging tool to stop the massive wall of spam from a single person.

...

Click to expand...

From a mod's viewpoint, we get quite a lot of complaints about:
. people bumping their threads more than once a day, (rule 3.10)
. people having items on their Selling threads that are currently on auction, (rule 5.1)
. posts in Selling threads that are not on the list in rule 5.5,
. as well as the 'wall of posts' issue.

As I recall when JC was modding, he asked some of the regular forum traders to consolidate their multiferous different threads to minimize some of the effect of the final issue on other forum users, and this has mostly worked.

However, we get regular complaints about the level of 'bumpage' in consolidated sales threads, when the threadstarter makes several posts a day along the lines of 'item added to list', 'item sold', 'item price changed'.

Ideally, these sorts of posts should only be made once a day, with any changes during that day noted by editing that post.

As for Hardwrath's issue of keeping track of items in his threads, I've already suggested to him that this could be easily solved by using Notepad (or other text editor/spreadsheet) to keep track of his items, and copy/pasting only that portion of the file that should be shown on the forum.

qamori said:

Congratulations!
PCF just gained a few hundred "New" users.

Click to expand...

We may have a short period of enforcing rule 1.2 (ie 'Single Account') while some try this out.
I don't think many really want their account temp-banned though.

Serica said:

As for Hardwrath's issue of keeping track of items in his threads, I've already suggested to him that this could be easily solved by using Notepad (or other text editor/spreadsheet) to keep track of his items, and copy/pasting only that portion of the file that should be shown on the forum.

Click to expand...

I already use Microsoft Excel. Further modifying how I use it is not viable for my purposes. Elaborating further is hard because it would reveal extremely proprietary information... but I have tried color coding and even making a section for a note about the item location. None of this works long term. For me, things are a lot more complicated then if something is on auction or not.

I agree to the thread limit but how will the post limit affect those that are bidding over each other in a selling thread? Are you then limited to 2 bids per day?

I say remove the post limit but keep the thread limit

Hijacker27 said:

I say remove the post limit but keep the thread limit

Click to expand...

This wouldn't stop people from making 1 post a day for 2 weeks then bumping all 14 posts at once flooding the front page. Is it possible to allow all users to lock their own threads in that section then only allow 3 active threads for each user at any given time?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding but this really going to screw with

• Bidding in forum based auctions
• Having a dialogue in a sell thread to answer relevant questions.
• Adding a "Sold" post, depending on timing of sale.

KijkkiJikki said:

Perhaps I am misunderstanding but this really going to screw with

• Bidding in forum based auctions
• Having a dialogue in a sell thread to answer relevant questions.
• Adding a "Sold" post, depending on timing of sale.

Click to expand...

Bidding can be done by PM (and should imo). Often stuff is listed at SB 1 PED to encourage a massive amount of bids to keep the thread bumped constantly.

Having a dialogue can also be done by PM, and if the questions are relevant the seller can edit his OP with the new information.

Letting people know an item is sold can be done by editing the OP.

fredda said:

Bidding can be done by PM (and should imo). Often stuff is listed at SB 1 PED to encourage a massive amount of bids to keep the thread bumped constantly.

Having a dialogue can also be done by PM, and if the questions are relevant the seller can edit his OP with the new information.

Letting people know an item is sold can be done by editing the OP.

Click to expand...

Appreciate you can find ways to work around this restriction but it's sucky. Especially as auction gets to towards the end period.

Forums are supposed to facilitates flow of information and this measure inhibits it. The trading section of the forum is seriously nobbled. Readers can filter out selling threads from their feeds. People who spam or flood can be temp banned.

I just think this is bad move. Appreciate there will be those who like it.

Regards,
KikkiJikki