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Support Reminder - Item Lending

HardWrath said:
What about when the loaned items are on an avatar that you locked for unknown reasons?

What then? Why should the person who loaned the item to the locked person have to suffer?
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Very good point here!
I also want the answer to this
 
In response to my thread: Is there any work being done on a system to prevent scams?

Regarding a rental system:

Kim|Calypso said:
There is currently no plan in place to introduce such a system.

Kim
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HardWrath said:
Thanks for your input :)

Is there a plan in place for an alternative solution of any kind?
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Kim|Calypso said:
Not in terms of a new system but we are in the process of coming up with a new policy for how to deal with these cases when they appear. You've most likely seen some of that work surface with some recent cases that were publicized on this forum.
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HardWrath said:
Yes we have. I think that the change is very positive and very much needed. So I want to say thank you to whomever in MA advocated for that policy change and especially to whoever decided to implement it.

It no doubt will only bring good things for EU.

Now that it's harder for scammers to run off with borrowed items, or to scam people in other ways, the incentive is reduced, and as a result we likely will see less scams overall.
Click to expand...

So now we can watch how the community responds to MA reversing their new policy.

Aside from the question that I asked, ill stay out of it.
 
A classic case of misuse when MA does the right thing.. People who are crying about favourtism should first get the fucking facts right..

A few people got there items returned and no it was not cause they knew someone at MA , because it was done for people who did not as well. An adjusted fap was returned among other items.

What we have next is people lending faps around like we already have a system for lending in place. There is a reason we do not have a lending system in place and a well deserving one. So every other day there items get scammed of course and then MA should put time into sorting there shit out instead of developing the game.. NO! That is not there job and the only people to be blamed for this shit is them.. They know who they are..

REMINDER : DO NOT LEND ITEMS OUT WITHOUT COLLATERAL.. PERIOD
 
Divinity said:
An adjusted fap was returned among other items.
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Deth i dont think people were referring to your case, they were talking about the guy that borrowed a bunch of faps and TT'd them.
Either way, stolen, borrowed, scammed or TT'd some items have been returned, and others wont!
 
Divinity said:
A classic case of misuse when MA does the right thing.. People who are crying about favourtism should first get the fucking facts right..

A few people got there items returned and no it was not cause they knew someone at MA , because it was done for people who did not as well. An adjusted fap was returned among other items.

What we have next is people lending faps around like we already have a system for lending in place. There is a reason we do not have a lending system in place and a well deserving one. So every other day there items get scammed of course and then MA should put time into sorting there shit out instead of developing the game.. NO! That is not there job and the only people to be blamed for this shit is them.. They know who they are..
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Care to share why it's ok to return Adj FAP and "other items" and not so return something else?

Issue here is having different approach in case of some people and different in case of everybody else.
That's how it looks like, isn't it?

REMINDER : DO NOT LEND ITEMS OUT WITHOUT COLLATERAL.. PERIOD
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Absolutely agree with that, but it does not wipe out bad taste of seeing clear example of special treatment of some players.
 
fred5283 said:
25 cents to the swear bucket please
and
100 cents to the grammar Nazis (there does not equal their x4)

:)
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There are no cents in this game. Just peds. So 25peds to the swear bucket.

Taco, your bill for said bucket is due @ 71,399ped.
 
Seems I am an MA favourite.

I have had an Adapted Vivo T10 returned, which was TTed by a scammer. Dumbass move by me to rent without collateral? Maybe. I've got balls enough to handle the consequences. Bite me.

I have had "preferential" treatment compared to quin for example. Woohoo, I got a 500 ped item back. Quin now has a 10k+(?) item lost (on a locked account due to buying the PED from the T10 scam) because of the resulting investigation from my Adapted Vivo T10.

I would much prefer that quin got that treatment to be honest, because then I wouldn't owe him a Tier 4 Adj Hedoc Mayhem.

Bitch.




"Quote Originally Posted by Kim|Calypso View Post
Not in terms of a new system but we are in the process of coming up with a new policy for how to deal with these cases when they appear. You've most likely seen some of that work surface with some recent cases that were publicized on this forum."

Thanks for that HardWrath, this was interesting.
 
atomicstorm said:
Find a suitable system that will reasonably not cause the game economy to have problems (item value), and I am for it. That has always been my stance (hence my reference to the other threads).
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fred5283 said:
I think there could be a solution. I have ideas and I'm sure others do as well so to NOT cause economy issues
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And there ya have it. You guys hit the nail on the head.

Those that are opposed to a lending system put a higher value on items maintaining their value than on free will. That is fair, and they are entitled to do so, but most of us will choose free will, and a simple way to exercise free will, i.e. a simple item-loan interface.


Divinity said:
There is a reason we do not have a lending system in place and a well deserving one.
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I am surprised at your whole tone, tbh.


Divinity said:
Hey buds, am afraid right now the banks are a one way lending system, as in lending peds with item as collateral. I think what you are referring to would be a rental system, which banks dont have right now.
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"right now"

maybe that...

And to be fair, maybe that's how it should work, through a bank, with fee's etc...

But you aren't going to stop people from lending without collateral. You will not stop people from getting scammed, and you will not stop support cases. If you open Pandora's Box (as longtime correctly states), then you damn sure better figure out a way to close it, or you risk exactly what has happened. That players feel that certain avatars are treated differently. Not just the scam Div exposed, but in other cases, where MA has reversed trades or loans even. It wont stop until a system is in place.
 
Why implement a system that can be abused?

Player A tells MA player B borrowed my item but sold it, MA reimburse it only to find out it was a inside job.

Imo either take a collateral for the item you are lending out or face the concequences.


Ps. MA does need to pick a side, either reimburse it all or not, picking favorites is a bit shady.
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
Care to share why it's ok to return Adj FAP and "other items" and not so return something else?
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Glad u asked :)

Sorry it was an vivo t15 or t10 which was returned and the 0x0f+vrex was too as these were one time human errors which anyone could have made. What happened after that is a certain individual started sharing faps around. His first one or two items that were scammed were returned as like others. However a third happened and this time they decided to say enough is enough..

So basically, what MA is now saying is that we tried to help you but you tried to misuse the help. So, we are doing what any sane person would and remove that support line we had given.. After that another adjusted fap got scammed and they have not done anything yet about it. An adj hedoc is also on a banned ava from what i understand. This is an unnecessary headache for MA and its not simple to work out these things especially when the avatar who scammed basically funneled the peds through hunting/events and auctions.

As for why we should not or cannot have a lending system, I have mentioned enough reasons in the other thread and i do not see MA ever having that system open to all.

So again, i say.. DON'T LEND WITHOUT COLLATERAL. :)
 
S4400Salvation said:
Ps. MA does need to pick a side, either reimburse it all or not, picking favorites is a bit shady.
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They are not picking sides, they are removing the option for all. It was a change they thought would help the community and now they have decided that we have misused the facility and are taking back that feature.. There is a big difference between that and picking favourites
 
Bertha Bot said:
Please remember that the Entropia Universe official policy is that all trades between avatars are final.
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So... going by Mindark's stance of "non-meddling" in avatar affairs, and their "constant reminder" statement: The recent Next Isle Land Area trade must also be final?
 
Divinity said:
Glad u asked :)

What happened after that is a certain individual started sharing faps around. His first one or two items that were scammed were returned as like others. However a third happened and this time they decided to say enough is enough..

So basically, what MA is now saying is that we tried to help you but you tried to misuse the help.
Click to expand...


You are talking about me, and the situation is that the Adapted T10 and Adj Hedoc are BOTH part of THE SAME scam. So it's not me "misusing their help" as you put it. The Adapted T10 was returned to me (so kind), but the Adj Mayhem, on an account locked by MA, they don't feel like returning.

The Adj Hedoc is on a locked account because the guy renting it (Adj Hedoc) bought PED from the scammer.

Capiche?
 
Divinity said:
They are not picking sides, they are removing the option for all. It was a change they thought would help the community and now they have decided that we have misused the facility and are taking back that feature.. There is a big difference between that and picking favourites
Click to expand...

I see many flaws in the "borrowing" system participants are doing with each other, be it with collateral or not.

In the end it's up to the player to read between the lines when borrowing an item of value to a participant without collateral.
 
HardWrath said:
What about when the loaned items are on an avatar that you locked for unknown reasons?

What then? Why should the person who loaned the item to the locked person have to suffer?
Click to expand...

Dalas said:
. Quin now has a 10k+(?) item lost (on a locked account due to buying the PED from the T10 scam) because of the resulting investigation from my Adapted Vivo T10.
Click to expand...


And as a result, an extremely heavy depositor (quin perv) who follows the rules ends up being the victim.

Ban the scammers, return the items to the paying customers, make them happy because they are the ones that make EU possible.
 
Divinity said:
So basically, what MA is now saying is that we tried to help you but you tried to misuse the help. So, we are doing what any sane person would and remove that support line we had given.. After that another adjusted fap got scammed and they have not done anything yet about it. An adj hedoc is also on a banned ava from what i understand. This is an unnecessary headache for MA and its not simple to work out these things especially when the avatar who scammed basically funneled the peds through hunting/events and auctions.
Click to expand...

That's a shame really that because one reckless person whole EU gets punished by stopping something that many thought was going to much better customer-MA relation.

Since limitation is hot topic recently, maybe MA could reconsider to keep alive helping customers who got items stolen.
Let's say you have one trade reversal per year.

Everybody is prone to make mistake and sell item for ridiculously small amount cause we got tired or distracted, or simply confirm trade after healing somebody, with FAP in trade window to show decay (as happened to me both as as a healer and as a healed, with Imp/Mod faps but cause I hang around with good people, trades was reversed as soon as mistake was realized).
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
That's a shame really that because one reckless person whole EU gets punished by stopping something that many thought was going to much better customer-MA relation.
Click to expand...

Teiwaz, I was reckless, I admit. I am not alone. There are several others who have been "reckless". We're talking AT LEAST FOUR other than myself who have had stuff they lent out either TTed or sold in trades.

None of us are to blame for "whole EU" being punished.

I'll fix my shit, but MA sure have a job to do to fix theirs!
 
Dalas said:
Teiwaz, I was reckless, I admit. I am not alone. There are several others who have been "reckless". We're talking AT LEAST FOUR other than myself who have had stuff they lent out either TTed or sold in trades.

None of us are to blame for "whole EU" being punished.

I'll fix my shit, but MA sure have a job to do to fix theirs!
Click to expand...

Don't take it personally Luke, I wasn't pointing blaming finger in your direction.
Just stating that it's a shame that one or even 20 reckless people would be a cause to stop something good for whole community.

If there would be special category to contact Support with trade reversal request, and everybody would have limited number of such SC possible, then there would be no problem.
You want to lend your (or even not your) items to random people? No problem, just know that after receiving help once or twice you are on your own....
 
Agreed. Why stop with the development of this new approach when you have so many fun cases to work on?
 
Dalas said:
You are talking about me, and the situation is that the Adapted T10 and Adj Hedoc are BOTH part of THE SAME scam. So it's not me "misusing their help" as you put it. The Adapted T10 was returned to me (so kind), but the Adj Mayhem, on an account locked by MA, they don't feel like returning.

The Adj Hedoc is on a locked account because the guy renting it (Adj Hedoc) bought PED from the scammer.

Capiche?
Click to expand...

Two important points you have missed out there.

1: The adjusted hedoc issue went to MA at least 2 weeks after the first two faps were found out as perv was on vaccation and when he got back , then the third item issue came to the knowledge of MA. So they basically said fair enough, 2 items a person can mistake and they got it reversed. Then 1-2 weeks later they found out about the third item. That is when things got out of hand and they stopped it for all. Another adjusted fap was not returned to the owner after this.

2. I am not 100% sure of this but maybe you can clarify as you were in the middle of it. The guy who got locked for buying the peds from the scammer is allegedly also the alt of the avatar , as in they share the IP address or something.. You can imagine how complicated it gets if that is true.. To be fair, this i dont know for sure and would appreciate your input on it..

HardWrath said:
And as a result, an extremely heavy depositor (quin perv) who follows the rules ends up being the victim.

Ban the scammers, return the items to the paying customers, make them happy because they are the ones that make EU possible.
Click to expand...

I am afraid the rule is to not lend your items to people. perv is a friend of mine as well but i disagree here completely that MA is to be blamed. perv trusted dalas with a fap and dalas lent it to someone else. The only person perv can blame is dalas and i hope dalas reimburses perv's fap. This was tragic because it was after this that MA decided not to help anyone with the deals as it is a pain in the ass for them as well. I do hope for perv that it ends up well, with either MA returning the item ( if its still on the banned ava and there is no complication involved) or dalas doing the right thing and reimbursing the fap to perv.



Dalas said:
Teiwaz, I was reckless, I admit. I am not alone. There are several others who have been "reckless". We're talking AT LEAST FOUR other than myself who have had stuff they lent out either TTed or sold in trades.

None of us are to blame for "whole EU" being punished.

I'll fix my shit, but MA sure have a job to do to fix theirs!
Click to expand...

There were others who were reckless too but they were solo incidences. There wasnt one person who went around lending items like there is no tomorrow. So yes, i blame u completely for MA taking this away from us. Nothing personal, but that's the fact as far as i see it.

MA just fixed there shit, they decided to go back to there old way and do "all trades are final" .
 
Well scams are as old as EU.

Many scams have happened in the past, and most times MA said: Every trade is final!
Its also in EULA, so why blame MA for this reminder!

Its the players fault, if they give away expencive items without proper colateral.

Hint: Use search function "Scam", the list of threads is damn long, and you still give away your items without collateral, and blame MA for your own stupidity.

Beside that, I remember times when MA didn´t replace items TTed by the owner themselves (drunk, mistake) as every trade is final. This changed after xxxSquallxxx accidently TTed his uL OA-105 -- now you can take back TTed items for a fee of 1000 PED.

What fee MA got from repalcing this lately scamed items? None!
Its a lot of work to check all the trade and chat logs from all the players involved!
Who pays the MA support workers for this job? We all do, we all who are not that stupid to give away valuable items without colateral, we pay the bill. Personally I would prefer the MA employees work at something that improves EU for us all, and not mainly to solve players issues they caused themselves by foulishness.

I am with MA in this case, they are right!

Colbey Kal said:
I feel like someone has to defend MindArk, at least a little here. At a minimum try and see things from their point of view.

I'm not an attorney, but there's a major legal issue here. From what I understand, only Governments are legally allowed take property from an unwilling person - 'Self Help' is not a general right. If something has been stolen (or taken through fraud) from you, you are supposed to have the government take action. Legal issues get even more complicated since people are interacting with individuals in other countries.

MindArk is not a government. Items in EU have an actual real world value. MindArk, nor it's employees, are qualified to judge who should have possession of an asset. While it's probably not worth your time, or legal expenses, you do have a right to sue in a real world court. In either the ToU or the EULA, in the privacy clause MA states that any information they have will be given concerning relevant parties if legal action is taken. When people ask MindArk to get involved in a Fraud situation you are asking them to do something they (arguably) do not have a legal right to do.

In the fraud situation involving the FAP the Planet Calypso spokesman made it clear that because they item was TT'd they were able to recreate it and give it back to the victim. If you think about it, they did not say there was any action taken against the con-man! They created a new item (with the same stats) and gave it to the victim. In a very real sense it cost MA (or PlanetCalypso) the TT value of the item. That simple action got plenty of good will for very little cost.

With the whole Deed situation MA *took* the deed from a players inventory. This upset many players - it sounds like it upset some well known players enough to quit the game. It was seen as an example representing MA being able to take anything from any player at their sole discretion. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that player has grounds to sue MA, in the real world. The player gave bargained for value to a third party in exchange for the property, and MA took the property without permission or compensation. (There are multiple types / definitions of property rights - And no, the EULA / TOS are not guaranteed to be perfect protection in legal situations.)

In the end, MA being a neutral party makes a lot of sense. Anything else and they are asking to get into trouble.
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Very good post. +REP
 
Anyone wonder why we don't get a statement about MA scamming a few LA deeds from an avatar? :laugh:
 
MA has done nothing wrong by tring to separate themselves from this/these matters. Alot of legality and liability falls on them here, and they risk ALOT and open themselfs for lawsuits or possible prosecution. It was not favoritism or persuasion, just good deeds that they went out of there way to do and now are being punished.

As far ar perv's fap getting scammed, id really like to know who this ava is pls pm.

Problem seems to be there has been to many scammers infiltrated into entropia universe, and it seems not only lending items, but any and all game play is not safe as it could result in you taking a loose for there gain in many ways.
 
Just for the record about my fap.

My fap wasn't stoled or scammed.
Ma locked the account of the guy that has mine!

I dont have any problem with Dalas, and was told by Dalas that he will fully refund me if I dont get it back. But i was avoiding that because i dont want peds, i prefer my fap.
I have been asking MA to please return my fap, since the reason I dont have it is because MA locked the avatar
 
KullXP said:
Problem seems to be there has been to many scammers infiltrated into entropia universe
Click to expand...

The reason for that is because "All trades are final"... its a lawless environment that rewards the scammer, punishes the paying customer, and also hurts MindArk's bottom line long-term. Think about it: Why would you continue depositing at a high level after you get scammed and MA does nothing? Most wont and dont.

Thieves go unpunished as long as they dont break certain rules. Furthermore, earning someone's trust, getting them to loan you their item, and then keeping it apparently is not against the rules.

The policy of "All trades are final" results in a scammer's paradise and only perpetuates this ongoing problem that's plagued this game since the onset of Project Entropia.

With the recent temporary policy change, of course there will be a wave of customer support tickets. Thats to be expected but once you are through that, things likely would calm way down. After all, why would anyone go through all the effort of pulling off a long-con when there isnt a situation where they can get away with it?

I believe that if MindArk would have stayed the course through the tentative policy change, then EU and their balance sheet would be a lot healthier long-term
 
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Divinity said:
Two important points you have missed out there.

1: The adjusted hedoc issue went to MA at least 2 weeks after the first two faps were found out as perv was on vaccation and when he got back , then the third item issue came to the knowledge of MA. So they basically said fair enough, 2 items a person can mistake and they got it reversed. Then 1-2 weeks later they found out about the third item. That is when things got out of hand and they stopped it for all. Another adjusted fap was not returned to the owner after this.
Click to expand...

I'll give you a timeline from my perspective:

  • Eleanora lends T15 and it is stolen and TTed (NOT through my renting service).
  • I rent out Adapted Vivo T10.
  • I rent out Adjusted Hedoc Mayhem and quin goes on holiday.
  • Eleanora gets T15 back from MA.
  • I send a support based on an educated guess (trawling back through chat logs etc..) that my Adapted Vivo T10 has suffered the same fate.
  • It has, confirmed by MA who then return my Adapted Vivo T10. Until this point I had been getting rent payments for the Adjusted Hedoc Mayhem, so nothing looked amiss there. Guy had been actively healing with it.
  • I find out that Adj Hedoc guy is locked for buying PED. I put two and two together and realise that he's bought the PED from the scammer. This is confirmed by Mr Adj Hedoc (now on a new account) who claims that the scammer is a RL acquaintance.
  • I send a support to MA asking what can be done about the now locked Adj Hedoc Mayhem, as it is a part of the same scam, locked because of the same scammer as both the Eleanora T15 (returned) and my Adapted Vivo T10 (returned).
  • Quin gets back, and I haven't seen Adj Hedoc guy for a few days... I still have a dialogue with MA about the Adj Hedoc.
  • MA say they've done what they want to do, and that quin will have to send a support about it, case closed.
  • Quin sends support and gets blown off.
  • This thread pops up.


Divinity said:
2. I am not 100% sure of this but maybe you can clarify as you were in the middle of it. The guy who got locked for buying the peds from the scammer is allegedly also the alt of the avatar , as in they share the IP address or something.. You can imagine how complicated it gets if that is true.. To be fair, this i dont know for sure and would appreciate your input on it..
Click to expand...

MA did disclose to me that their investigation evidence pointed to the Adj Hedoc guy being the same guy who stole and TTed my Adapted Vivo T10 (and by extension the same guy who stole and TTed Eleanora's T15).

The fact that the guy came on after a while with a new account shouting about how pissed off he was that his 3 years avatar was banned made me think otherwise, but once I told him about MA's evidence, I didn't see him again on his new alt.

In addition, I don't really see the benefit for him in TTing the Adj Hedoc Mayhem which has such low TT. He probably didn't plan this, but MA's investigations screwed him over and got him locked. I had been talking to him (Mr Adj Hedoc) about switching him over to super high TT Adapted Hedoc SK-50 (I have given collateral for this one!) which would have been WAY more fun for him to TT if he so wished. This makes me think that he was NOT planning to get locked with the Adj Hedoc Mayhem at all, and by extension, possibly not even the scammer, who he claimed was an acquaintance who visited him on several occasions, which makes PED buying a natural thing between the two of them.




Divinity said:
I am afraid the rule is to not lend your items to people. perv is a friend of mine as well but i disagree here completely that MA is to be blamed. perv trusted dalas with a fap and dalas lent it to someone else. The only person perv can blame is dalas and i hope dalas reimburses perv's fap. This was tragic because it was after this that MA decided not to help anyone with the deals as it is a pain in the ass for them as well. I do hope for perv that it ends up well, with either MA returning the item ( if its still on the banned ava and there is no complication involved) or dalas doing the right thing and reimbursing the fap to perv.
Click to expand...

Don't you worry your little cotton socks about that Divinity. Quin will not lose anything in all this mess.





Divinity said:
There were others who were reckless too but they were solo incidences. There wasnt one person who went around lending items like there is no tomorrow. So yes, i blame u completely for MA taking this away from us. Nothing personal, but that's the fact as far as i see it.

MA just fixed there shit, they decided to go back to there old way and do "all trades are final" .
Click to expand...


Are you a parent? If so you will understand the fallacy of "giving them [us] an inch". I would much rather they just said all trades are final and STUCK TO IT, instead of returning some items (incidentally low value) and not others (incidentally high value).
 
das said:
Anyone wonder why we don't get a statement about MA scamming a few LA deeds from an avatar? :laugh:
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Yeah exactly...because most people forget.

They might blow hard at the time, but they forget, and most will not make an actual defiant response to a given tyrannic act.

People can argue until they are blue in the face about what people should or should not do, but in the end, change will only be made is when enough of us stop blaming each other, stand up, and start holding our leader to a higher standard.

Whether it's trades, taming, land deeds, land area deeds, simple loan coding, hit-boxes, Hussk's or known exploits allowed to continue, MA has not acted appropriately...and when the strong give up and revolt, good fucking luck to your game.

Wearing 2 faces, failing to respond to a population, taking their property without recompense, with ever-changing rules, and arbitrary applications of those rules, THAT has been the downfall of EVERY organization, company or country that has every been destroyed.
 
HardWrath said:
The reason for that is because "All trades are final"... its a lawless environment that rewards the scammer, punishes the paying customer, and also hurts MindArk's bottom line long-term. Think about it: Why would you continue depositing at a high level after you get scammed and MA does nothing? Most wont and dont.

Thieves go unpunished as long as they dont break certain rules. Furthermore, earning someone's trust, getting them to loan you their item, and then keeping it apparently is not against the rules.

The policy of "All trades are final" results in a scammer's paradise and only perpetuates this ongoing problem that's plagued this game since the onset of Project Entropia.

With the recent temporary policy change, of course there will be a wave of customer support tickets. Thats to be expected but once you are through that, things likely would calm way down. After all, why would anyone go through all the effort of pulling off a long-con when there isnt a situation where they can get away with it?

I believe that if MindArk would have stayed the course through the tentative policy change, then EU and their balance sheet would be a lot healthier long-term
Click to expand...

Best post I ever read.
 
qamori said:
Just for the record about my fap.

My fap wasn't stoled or scammed.
Ma locked the account of the guy that has mine!
Click to expand...

That ava who has the fap has been linked to be the alt of the scammer so it has been stolen/scammed. MA locked the ava because it was the scammer's alt as dalas confirms below.


Dalas said:
I'll give you a timeline from my perspective:

  • Eleanora lends T15 and it is stolen and TTed (NOT through my renting service).
  • I rent out Adapted Vivo T10.
  • I rent out Adjusted Hedoc Mayhem and quin goes on holiday.
  • Eleanora gets T15 back from MA.
  • I send a support based on an educated guess (trawling back through chat logs etc..) that my Adapted Vivo T10 has suffered the same fate.
  • It has, confirmed by MA who then return my Adapted Vivo T10. Until this point I had been getting rent payments for the Adjusted Hedoc Mayhem, so nothing looked amiss there. Guy had been actively healing with it.
  • I find out that Adj Hedoc guy is locked for buying PED. I put two and two together and realise that he's bought the PED from the scammer. This is confirmed by Mr Adj Hedoc (now on a new account) who claims that the scammer is a RL acquaintance.
  • I send a support to MA asking what can be done about the now locked Adj Hedoc Mayhem, as it is a part of the same scam, locked because of the same scammer as both the Eleanora T15 (returned) and my Adapted Vivo T10 (returned).
  • Quin gets back, and I haven't seen Adj Hedoc guy for a few days... I still have a dialogue with MA about the Adj Hedoc.
  • MA say they've done what they want to do, and that quin will have to send a support about it, case closed.
  • Quin sends support and gets blown off.
  • This thread pops up.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the timelines..Appreciated.


Dalas said:
MA did disclose to me that their investigation evidence pointed to the Adj Hedoc guy being the same guy who stole and TTed my Adapted Vivo T10 (and by extension the same guy who stole and TTed Eleanora's T15).

The fact that the guy came on after a while with a new account shouting about how pissed off he was that his 3 years avatar was banned made me think otherwise, but once I told him about MA's evidence, I didn't see him again on his new alt.

In addition, I don't really see the benefit for him in TTing the Adj Hedoc Mayhem which has such low TT. He probably didn't plan this, but MA's investigations screwed him over and got him locked. I had been talking to him (Mr Adj Hedoc) about switching him over to super high TT Adapted Hedoc SK-50 (I have given collateral for this one!) which would have been WAY more fun for him to TT if he so wished. This makes me think that he was NOT planning to get locked with the Adj Hedoc Mayhem at all, and by extension, possibly not even the scammer, who he claimed was an acquaintance who visited him on several occasions, which makes PED buying a natural thing between the two of them.
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Quite honestly, I doubt anyone including myself would understand the complexity itself without reading this a couple times. Imagine the headache MA has to go through to get the desired result and avoid legal complications meanwhile ( banned ava's suing MA and all that) .

Dalas said:
Don't you worry your little cotton socks about that Divinity. Quin will not lose anything in all this mess.
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Not worried at all about that as i know that u are trustworthy enough to do the right thing. I was stating the obvious if u may.

Dalas said:
Are you a parent? If so you will understand the fallacy of "giving them [us] an inch". I would much rather they just said all trades are final and STUCK TO IT, instead of returning some items (incidentally low value) and not others (incidentally high value).
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Yes, I am and from the way i see it they gave u an "inch" but u went for the "foot" and they said sorry , enough is enough and we all need to deal with our own problems.

I do not think item value has a big significance here as MU is player defined and not by MA. It was a pretty clear change of stance that happened as 2 items after that have been scammed and not returned to the owner. MA has made it clear they will not get into it so that people do not consider it preferential treatment. Imagine they return one person ( not because of favorable individual but the situation was favorable) and they have to say no to others. That would likely cause a shit storm and and dare i say I totally agree with MA for now.
 
das said:
Anyone wonder why we don't get a statement about MA scamming a few LA deeds from an avatar? :laugh:
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Sunsout Gunsout said:
Yeah exactly...because most people forget.
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I thought i heard that the guy is getting back the deed coming VU.. I might be wrong but thats what i have heard... Personally, I totally disagree with MA taking the deed from his ava and I would always support any claim that brings the deed back to the guy. I guess we dint hear from MA and the avatar decided to remain quiet but then i cant be sure as this is info i have from a mutual friend of the avatar
 
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