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Question: Do you think Bitcoin should be a payment option?

Do you think Bitcoin should be a payment option?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 22.6%

  • No

    Votes: 87 63.5%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 6 4.4%

  • Don't care

    Votes: 13 9.5%
  • Total voters
    137
aVaLON_52

aVaLON_52

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Avalon Butterfly Erupter
Wanted to start a thread solely regarding this topic; feel free to express your viewpoints.. just please keep the drama to a minimum. The question is simple.

If you're not already aware; many major retailers are now accepting Bitcoin
>> See the growing list here <<

To name a few that you may be familiar with:
  • Newegg
  • Paypal
  • Overstock.com
  • Dish Network
I'm in San Diego, and they just put a Bitcoin ATM here.

Some companies; want to accept Bitcoin but fear the volatility of the currency. To hedge this, what they will do is accept Bitcoin and then immediately turn every transaction into it's local currency in order to mitigate any potential for loss (something to consider MA).

Other PRO's that I can think of off the top of my head:

MA if you happen to come across this thread; I hope you can take this into consideration.

Note: In this thread I am obviously referring to Bitcoin; other cryptocurrencies are not out of the question, but seeing how it is Bitcoin has the largest market cap and is most well known, that is the coin I am using as reference.

************************EDIT: ADDITION 9/21/14*************************

And here's how MA can ACCEPT Bitcoin for deposits with NO RISK

Bitpay said:
Charge $1, get $1.

Instant conversion, no transaction fee, and bank deposits in US Dollars, Euros, GBP, CAD and more. We take the bitcoin exchange rate risk, your customers get the best rate on the market, and you get a payment you can count on, every time. Conversion & Bank Deposit ›
Click to expand...

https://bitpay.com/
 
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I voted no in the poll, i don't think its a very good time/money investment on Mindarks part to support bitcoin. Bitcoin is a niche market and will most likely remain that way for the foreseeable future. I think Mindark, if they were to explore more payment options should focus on more mainstream solutions.

For we the more tech savy people Bitcoin isent a very complex concept, Decentralized P2P SHA encrypted transactions being pushed through a public ledger secured by network peers rather then a classic centralized banking system, a very simple yet safe system when you consider the process it uses to confirm transaction data and the fact that SHA-2(sha-256) have no confirmed succesful collisions. But for most people its just gibberish, I like this Sketch from Conan, even though its a bit obsured it still is kinda true for most people.


And then there is of course the numerous legal issues still to be resolved.

Just my :twocents:

Cheers
Zweshi
 
LOL, love the parody. If the snowglobe metaphor didn't hit home for you, then this won't help either..

 
i would say yes, for deposits only. those companies, Braintree (not paypal, a subsidary), Newegg, overstock etc are simply using a payment processor to allow people to use Bitcoin. the retailer doesnt ever hold them, they are just receiving their local currency. its no different to MA using CC payments from those in US, Australia, Russia etc. it would be no down side to MA and they get access to a market with significant paper wealth who'd like the novelty of a game they can use their bitcoins in.

further, i think MA should investigate a crypto currency of their own, or one of the smaller ones already out there, and how they can incorporate it in to the game, to create a genuine real economy. an awful lot of CPU/GPU power that can be utilised to create a new cryptocoin, could be tied to logged in time and activity.
 
Voted yes.. no reason not to.. for deposits only to start with.. tie up with an exchange..and peds to be made available only once they get there cash in bank.. slight delay for using a different method of deposit..should work for the good of MA and EU..
 
Voted Yes, would love it if you can withdraw that way too. Want to sell my CLD's atm and would be great instead of waiting 2-3 months the normal way.
 
I voted no.

I have no insight in the Bitcoin market but it just feels too unstable.
Also Bitcoin is NOT a payment service it is a CURRENCY!
Mindark shouldn't and can't accept all currencies there is, they are NOT a money exchange company.
If you say that Paypal already accept Bitcoin, then that is your answer, if you wish to deposit with Bitcoin then use Paypal as your Payment Service, easy as that.
 
That question was raised before, I voted yes.

If MA would accept BTC, it is an easy process to set up, and would give a huge exposure to EU most likely.

That's why using btc with paypal sound stupid compared to it (also paypal ain't available yet for that).

Also : Paypal is the worst kind of pal.

I am not sure it would be totally free of fees either :p.
 
Ofcorse not;

Someone said it best, let me quote;


When a few get something for nothing, in the end the rest will get nothing for something.

Bitcoin is an illusion of a ghost of money and is intrinsically worthless.

The early adopters take something that has NO value only build up the PERCEIVED value to sell to the greater fool for REAL wealth.

As soon as this monetary experiment is no longer profitable, it will return to its intrinsic value of zero.

Until then the sky is the limit as there is a sucker born every minute.


p.s.:

http://fortune.com/2014/09/19/the-value-of-bitcoin-keeps-sliding/
 
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the_prophet said:
Ofcorse not;

Someone said it best, let me quote;


When a few get something for nothing, in the end the rest will get nothing for something.

Bitcoin is an illusion of a ghost of money and is intrinsically worthless.

The early adopters take something that has NO value only build up the PERCEIVED value to sell to the greater fool for REAL wealth.

As soon as this monetary experiment is no longer profitable, it will return to its intrinsic value of zero.

Until then the sky is the limit as there is a sucker born every minute.


p.s.:

http://fortune.com/2014/09/19/the-value-of-bitcoin-keeps-sliding/
Click to expand...

I voted no as well, but in reallity, our entire global markets are built upon fiat currencies that hold no intrinsic value except that promised by the nation that issued them. Of course there lies the biggest problem with BitCoin in my mind: who is backing up this currency?
 
Arch Angel said:
who is backing up this currency?
Click to expand...

A currency being "backed" means that it is pegged to something else via a central party at a certain exchange rate yet you cannot exchange bitcoins for the computing power that was used to create them. Bitcoin is in this sense not backed by anything. It is a currency in its own right. Just as gold is not backed by anything, the same applies to Bitcoin.

The Bitcoin currency is created via processing power, and the integrity of the block chain is protected by the existence of a network of powerful computing nodes from certain attacks.

Bitcoins are worthless because they aren't backed by anything
Click to expand...

One could argue that gold isn't backed by anything either. Bitcoins have properties resulting from the system's design that allows them to be subjectively valued by individuals. This valuation is demonstrated when individuals freely exchange for or with bitcoins. Please refer to the Subjective Theory of Value.

Source: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bitcoin_is_backed_by_processing_power
 
aVaLON_52 said:
A currency being "backed" means that it is pegged to something else via a central party at a certain exchange rate yet you cannot exchange bitcoins for the computing power that was used to create them. Bitcoin is in this sense not backed by anything. It is a currency in its own right. Just as gold is not backed by anything, the same applies to Bitcoin.
Click to expand...

What is the current value of a Bitcoin today? What is used to buy a BitCoin? What do you get if you want to sale a bitcoin? More who is currently managing the money from the sales of the Bitcoins? What happens if that source goes bankrupt or runs away with the profits?
 
aVaLON_52 said:
A currency being "backed" means that it is pegged to something else via a central party at a certain exchange rate yet you cannot exchange bitcoins for the computing power that was used to create them. Bitcoin is in this sense not backed by anything. It is a currency in its own right. Just as gold is not backed by anything, the same applies to Bitcoin.

The Bitcoin currency is created via processing power, and the integrity of the block chain is protected by the existence of a network of powerful computing nodes from certain attacks.



One could argue that gold isn't backed by anything either. Bitcoins have properties resulting from the system's design that allows them to be subjectively valued by individuals. This valuation is demonstrated when individuals freely exchange for or with bitcoins. Please refer to the Subjective Theory of Value.

Source: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bitcoin_is_backed_by_processing_power
Click to expand...

The difference between gold/silver/platinum etc and bitcoin/traditional fiat currencies is that precious metals are by themselves valuable while bitcoin/fiat isent. Not because we designated those metals as a currency and "backed" them with promises from state or in the case of Bitcoin individual idyllic belief but because they have time and time again through out human history shown to hold intrinsic value to pretty much all civilizations, some more some less depending on culture.

In essence gold dosn't have to be backed by another medium of exchange to be valuable since it holds those properties on its own, fiat and crypto currency on the other hand does not have those properties and thus the "backed" by nothing argument. A argument that labels gold in the same or close to the same category as fiat/crypto is simply wrong and ignores our history as well as market forces.

The way i see bitcoin is not as a revolutionary concept that will change how we view currency, but as a secondary fiat currency to the already established systems. To have a currency that isen't regulated by any particular state i think is a attractive prospect to most people educated in the matter i just don't see bitcoin being a good candidate in that regard.

Best regards
Zweshi
 
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I suggest anyone interested in Bitcoin do some wider reading than referencing the fanatic drivel on the internet.

Most importantly, investigate the current legal position that your corresponding governments have regarding Bitcoin.

In Australia the ATO (Australia Tax Office) has recently declared Bitcoin to be an asset - and as such is traded by barter.

Therefore, in Australia - Bitcoin is NOT a currency and incurs hefty tax implication under the current legal definitions.
I expect this to change over time.

Other countries definitions differ, while many have no legal framework for such 'transactions'.

Despite Bitcoin declaring itself a borderless currency - it is not. In time, some consensus will exist, but not yet.

I wholeheartedly support Bitcoin, but Mindark would be smart to steer clear of bitcoin, for the interim.

:twocents:
 
Are we having this discussion again?

The question isn't, "Would you personally buy/use/accept Bitcoin?" or "Do you believe in Bitcoin?" or "Do you like or hate Bitcoin?"

The question is, "Do you think Bitcoin should be a payment option?"

Even if you don't believe in Bitcoin. Even if you are scared of it, hate it, think it's nonsense, a scam, a tulip ponzi pyramid mania, passing fad or whatever. Even if you personally would never touch Bitcoin in a million years despite it being the biggest gamechanger since the internet. Even then, why would you NOT want people who do want to put money into the game - a game which depends on people putting money into it - to be able to do so with a bitcoin option? Why?

Seriously, it's easier and cheaper to set up than any other deposit method.

There would be no risk to MA in regard to any price volatility of Bitcoin - ie, when someone deposits $100 US worth of Bitcon, MA recieves $100 US dollars worth of fiat currency from the payment processor, minus the payment processor fees which can range from 0% - 1% depending on what Bitcoin processor and what plan they choose.

As discussed in another thread somewhere, we bitcoin advocates are only asking for an option to deposit funds into the game via bitcoin. No one is trying to convert or force people into using bitcoin or asking MA to take away what deposit options are already in place. People who want to deposit via CC, Paypal or whatever is currently available wouldn't be affected in any way. No one is going to shut down MA/EU because they had an option for depositing via Bitcoin, so don't worry, really it's ok.
 
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OZtwo said:
What is the current value of a Bitcoin today? What is used to buy a BitCoin? What do you get if you want to sale a bitcoin? More who is currently managing the money from the sales of the Bitcoins? What happens if that source goes bankrupt or runs away with the profits?
Click to expand...

What is the current value of a dollar today? What is used to buy a dollar? What do you get if you want to sale a dollar? More who is currently managing the money from the sales of the dollar? What happens if that source goes bankrupt or runs away with the profits?

Bitcoin removes the last two of your problems, the dollar has them all.
 
voted: "Don´t care"
I don´t use bitcoin.

If MA trust into bitcoin system, why not implement it. Their´s decission.
If MA don´t trust in it, well then not :D
 
Unvinsible said:
What is the current value of a dollar today? What is used to buy a dollar? What do you get if you want to sale a dollar? More who is currently managing the money from the sales of the dollar? What happens if that source goes bankrupt or runs away with the profits?

Bitcoin removes the last two of your problems, the dollar has them all.
Click to expand...

Nice Give me a 1,000 bitcoins today. heh you missed my point and you really need to understand how the real world dollar works here. The RL Dollar is backed by countries and of course the banks of these countries that yes in the past we have seen their dollar go to 0 worth. Now What is the bitcoin based on? And last these coins are not grown on trees.. we MUST BUY then with our RL money first.

As of now all bitcoins are based on is market value. People are buying/sale in hopes to make more RL money.


It's a great idea..but well, as many posted before...I just don't think bitcoins is the answer.
 
OZtwo said:
The RL Dollar is backed by countries and of course the banks of these countries that yes in the past we have seen their dollar go to 0 worth.
Click to expand...

Dollar-Value-decline-1913.jpg


OZtwo said:
And last these coins are not grown on trees.. we MUST BUY then with our RL money first.
Click to expand...

Actually they are initially mined, then traded on the market at an exchange rate.

OZtwo said:
As of now all bitcoins are based on is market value.
Click to expand...
The same is true for all currencies and commodities?
 
I woted "don't know" as there isn't a "depends" option.

I don't Think MA, by themselves, should implement bitcoin (or any other highly volatile currency/asset).

However, if a payment provider implements it, and deliver pure Money to MA (in the forms of a currency like USD) to MA, at no risk (if payment provider takes all risks, such as the bitcoins were stolen or acquired through illegal means like ransomware), then I don't mind.

Basically a payment provider could accept any payment (that isn't illegal), including walnuts or corkscrews, as long as MA is kept out of the risks (of currency volatility or risk of repayment due to a previous step in chain) and that MA recives currency that's commonly traded by banks that MA accepts.

It's a different thing for companies that takes Money that isn't a straight deposit - companies who accepts bitcoins as a payment for cherries that only can be used to build bigger houses and can't be traded, or companies that charge for pure services - for instance a Company that sells ads and accepts bitcoins (no "ingame" currency involved), for instance. For a Company who can use bitcoins as a part of their marketing, rather than as a way to get income needed to run the Company.
 
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Stop making the same poll over and over and over and over. What is it you are trying to do? Continue polling just as long as it takes to all the novoters to not bother anymore, and then pretend your poll is clear evidence that "the community demands bitcoin"?

Bitcoin is a hype by a brilliant computer guy who has cashed in and is secretly laughing at all you suckers using it. And MA would be stupid to accept it. The dollar may be unreliable, but bitcoin is nothing (literally). And I dont want my game to go bankrupt (and my ingame assets gone) because they felt pushed to move along with the next big airbubble.

Stop polling.
 
aia said:
I woted "don't know" as there isn't a "depends" option.

I don't Think MA, by themselves, should implement bitcoin (or any other highly volatile currency/asset).

However, if a payment provider implements it, and deliver pure Money to MA (in the forms of a currency like USD) to MA, at no risk (if payment provider takes all risks, such as the bitcoins were stoken or acquired through illegal means like ransomware), then I don't mind.

Basically a payment provider could accept any payment (that isn't illegal), including walnuts or corkscrews, as long as MA is kept out of the risks (of currency volatility or risk of repayment due to a previous step in chain) and that MA recives currency that's commonly traded by banks that MA accepts.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't suggest for implementation any other way. I agree it would be risky if MA were to just accept transactions in Bitcoin and hold onto all the Bitcoins.

The payment provider you are referring to does exist, the most well known one that I know many companies are utilizing to date is Bitpay; added that info to the original post on this thread.
 
I don't understand some people's thought processes (Well, actually, I think I do, but that's besides the point). No one is trying to convert anyone to a new religion or force people into using Bitcoin or even take away any current deposit methods. Some of us would just like an added option to deposit via bitcoin. MA is not going to lose money or get shut down just because of an option to deposit via bitcoin.

I hate paypal for many reasons and personally think using it is just silly. However, I do respect the fact that there are many people out there who do deposit that way because they believe it's the best way or maybe the only way for them to do so and that's great. Whatever way people are easily able to get money into the game, I'm all for it despite what I personally think of it.

Why would anyone be against people depositing money into the game via whatever way as long as it was legal to do so? As I mentioned above, MA is not going to lose money or get shut down just because of an option to deposit via bitcoin.
 
Optimator said:
Why would anyone be against people depositing money into the game via whatever way as long as it was legal to do so? As I mentioned above, MA is not going to lose money or get shut down just because of an option to deposit via bitcoin.
Click to expand...

You might be quite off with this idea. As far as I know MA is cooperating with the authorities when they try to trace funds. So for whomever is stupid enough to use EU for money laundering its a big honeypot.
With Bitcoin that is a different story, yeah its not anonymous per se, but with some effort it can be.

So I fear you'll not see any Bitcoin payment option soon.
Because the danger of being shut down is very real otherwise and for any MMO that is a situation which is difficult at the least if not even impossible to survive.
MA would probably implement it way way way waaaay after nearly every other MMO is offering it.
 
Optimator said:
I don't understand some people's thought processes (Well, actually, I think I do, but that's besides the point). No one is trying to convert anyone to a new religion or force people into using Bitcoin or even take away any current deposit methods. Some of us would just like an added option to deposit via bitcoin. MA is not going to lose money or get shut down just because of an option to deposit via bitcoin.

I hate paypal for many reasons and personally think using it is just silly. However, I do respect the fact that there are many people out there who do deposit that way because they believe it's the best way or maybe the only way for them to do so and that's great. Whatever way people are easily able to get money into the game, I'm all for it despite what I personally think of it.

Why would anyone be against people depositing money into the game via whatever way as long as it was legal to do so? As I mentioned above, MA is not going to lose money or get shut down just because of an option to deposit via bitcoin.
Click to expand...

Because the medium of exchange that is bitcoin is at present(in my opinion) not worth the effort and to be honest i doubt it will ever be worth it. It does not take 5 minutes to setup and maintain a new deposit method its not a POCS involving one party.
Then there is of course the fact that its not actually a currency and the legal framework it uses is that of a commodity in most juristictions which again makes the proposition more complicated. And yes there is a very real posibility of being shutdown if assholes decide to use Entropia and a bitcoin option to launder money.

Here are some numbers:

Visa daily transactions amount($): ~16,518,000,000 $
Visa daily transactions: ~212,603,000

Paypal daily transcations amount($): ~397,000,000 $
Paypal daily transactions: ~7,700,000

Bitcoin daily transactions amount($): ~56,000,000 $
Bitcoin daily transactions: ~74,000

*Number of transactions weights heavy when looking at this kind of data.

Considering that all wallet to wallet transactions in bitcoin are counted as a transaction that number is in reality way way lower if we were to only count the "real transactions".

I personally think bitcoin falls short but going beyond my own convictions of bitcoin the system is tiny and used by very few people so why partner with a provider in such a small market when there are far more lucrative systems out there?
 
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melander said:
I personally think bitcoin falls short but going beyond my own convictions of bitcoin the system is tiny and used by very few people so why partner with a provider in such a small market when there are far more lucrative systems out there?
Click to expand...

I agree, I don't think it's worth the cost and time for MA to support Bitcoin.
 
It doesn't help also that programmers are trying to build software to deal bitcoins on the darknet to fund potential terrorism. I think that will bring this currency a lot problems in the current political landscape.

Rick
 
RickEngland said:
It doesn't help also that programmers are trying to build software to deal bitcoins on the darknet to fund potential terrorism. I think that will bring this currency a lot problems in the current political landscape.
Click to expand...

Where I've seen it (well indirectly), is that it's been recently used by "ransomware". That is, you get a trojan into your computer, the trojan encrypts all datafiles, and then requires a donation, around 500 USD Worth, in bitcoins that is sent to a certain bitcoin address. It makes it harder to track for the police than a request to pay by credit card.
 
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